Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes/The Phantom Pain

[Peasantslayer]

I've redone it now, it looks like risking death would be a better approach than running too far from whatever is trying to kill you!

 

[Samus]

Episode 9 is a complete PITA. Easy to pass but trying to S rank it and do all the objectives so frustrating unless you know the perfect route/order and where everything is.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah I found all of those, the Oilfield one is a good way to get in but you don't get very far, you're still popping out into a big area of danger. I found a pipe to walk inside as well but didn't get you anywhere.

As frustrating as I found "Pitch Dark", it was also really rewarding when you got it right. I quite like using the large pipe in the empty pit, then working around the filtration ponds and planting C4 under the large tank.

The airport I thought was good and sneaking into the main building wasn't easy but it still felt smaller and underutilised than it could be, seemed like a lot more potential there.

I suspect that part of it is the limitations of working in an open world - which I find frustrating because there are huge swathes of unused land. It's fine when you are moving from one location to another and have to cross open ground, but there's nothing south of Nova Braga.

The only dud locations are really the two villages in Afghanistan - the one you rescue Kaz from (it's super easy) and the one on the cliff (which only has one route through it). I have always been frustrated by Bampeve Plantation because I can never do it cleanly, but I actually quite like the layout - no lines of sight, and no vantage points for a recee.

Central Base camp is probably the closest but still nothing like Omega in scale or variety. It's pretty much sneak along the left hand side from the main entrance or along the North edge from the NE entrance.

I find the Central Base Camp to be the most balanced location in the game. There's a nice blend of open spaces, close quarters and natural formations (something that was missing from Groznyj Grad). My usual route is to go right from the southern entry, down under the bridge, and then climb the collapsed bunker because it's the one place I can scout everything from.

 

[Samus]

As frustrating as I found "Pitch Dark", it was also really rewarding when you got it right. I quite like using the large pipe in the empty pit, then working around the filtration ponds and planting C4 under the large tank.

You can do that from underneath? I hated trying to get to it in the first place but I assumed you had to get into the compound itself. Mind you it's the getting out that was trickier and you really have to do that first so they're not more alert doing the other objective first.

The only dud locations are really the two villages in Afghanistan - the one you rescue Kaz from (it's super easy) and the one on the cliff (which only has one route through it). I have always been frustrated by Bampeve Plantation because I can never do it cleanly, but I actually quite like the layout - no lines of sight, and no vantage points for a recee.

I don't really like any of the bases that are really restricted tunnel designs rather than being open. It only gives you two points of entry and both tend to be heavily guarded. I mean sure it's a challenge, but it restricts the variety and options.
Sneaking in unsighted really isn't an option, you have to take some people out.

I find the Central Base Camp to be the most balanced location in the game. There's a nice blend of open spaces, close quarters and natural formations (something that was missing from Groznyj Grad). My usual route is to go right from the southern entry, down under the bridge, and then climb the collapsed bunker because it's the one place I can scout everything from.

It is a decent base but there isn't really the size for different OPs and variety. I mean it's a problem that all bases have, whenever there is someone to rescue 9/10 they're in the same place, because there isn't scope for more locations. Kinda takes the element of surprise away when you know where to head after the first infiltration/rescue and just makes those Side Ops tedious.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You can do that from underneath?

High level C4 might be enough. But at the very least, you can use the back stairs to access the lock-up, giving you plenty of time to set the charges and there are no guards to deal with.

I don't really like any of the bases that are really restricted tunnel designs rather than being open. It only gives you two points of entry and both tend to be heavily guarded. I mean sure it's a challenge, but it restricts the variety and options.

Once you get past the initial bottleneck, options start opening up. And there are usually multiple routes in. I haven't tried it for a while, but I'm pretty sure that if you hit the Central Base Camp from the north, you don't have to go by road - work your way around to the west and there's a concrete retaining wall; you can drop down into the base undetected.

That's probably why the village you rescue Kaz from is do horrible. There's four or five avenues in, but you can just approach from the south, hug the cliff face, and you're in and out in two minutes.

 

[Samus]

High level C4 might be enough. But at the very least, you can use the back stairs to access the lock-up, giving you plenty of time to set the charges and there are no guards to deal with.


Once you get past the initial bottleneck, options start opening up. And there are usually multiple routes in. I haven't tried it for a while, but I'm pretty sure that if you hit the Central Base Camp from the north, you don't have to go by road - work your way around to the west and there's a concrete retaining wall; you can drop down into the base undetected.

That's probably why the village you rescue Kaz from is do horrible. There's four or five avenues in, but you can just approach from the south, hug the cliff face, and you're in and out in two minutes.

It's the same reason I hate doing the mission on MB or FOBs, everything is just so open but with no place to scope things out so the chances of being seen almost comes down to luck. Either that or you're so focused on the mission you don't notice the sound of the truck patrol arriving and spotting you.

DD saves you in normal missions but he almost feels like a cheat.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's the same reason I hate doing the mission on MB or FOBs, everything is just so open but with no place to scope things out so the chances of being seen almost comes down to luck.

If you can get up onto one of the towers, you do stand some chance of making it. I suppose that's what I like about FOB missions - there's a vertical element to it. You start down low and have to work your way up, and it's often blind. It may not be perfect in its execution, but so many of the other locations have you starting above the objective and working your way down to it. Which is probably why Wakh Sind is so good: multiple routes, lots of variety, and the vertical aspect.

The best locations in the game are the ones with multiple avenues, and they play very differently depending on your approach. I think that's the merit of an open world for this kind of game - if it's linear, you're limited in your options; it sort of becomes a puzzle game where you have to figure out the cleanest way through. But the open world format gives you options for you to play around with; it's so much more conductive to experimentation.

 

[Samus]

I suppose that's what I like about FOB missions - there's a vertical element to it.

Yeah that's what I hate! Ha. I make use of Noctowhatsit but with the way they can blend in and be so far up you still get caught out.

Also on the events can AI spawn? Because I was doing the current one, only two platforms, and I cleared the first platform with no alerts, checked with the Nocto, nothing anywhere. I was even sprinting around at full place to fulton, it was definitely empty then as I'm scouting the second one I get two indicators behind me, two of them outta nowhere. Managed to pop them in time but still, annoying if they do just spawn out of nowhere.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Also on the events can AI spawn?

I don't know about the events - it's been ages since I did one - but as far as I am aware, they can spawn during infiltration missions, but only on the helipads, and only when you trip an alarm. If you're getting caught out, they're probably coming from an area you haven't covered off. I'm pretty sure they can be on the lower gantries encircling the platform; they just won't go down there until you climb the stairs so that you don't trip an alert.

Yeah that's what I hate!

I think that it's an important element because it adds variety. You have to think in three dimensions. It probably works better in the main game world; a lot of the FOB design feels pretty basic so that you can learn the layout. It's only the central platform for each hub that has any variety.

 

[Samus]

I don't know about the events - it's been ages since I did one - but as far as I am aware, they can spawn during infiltration missions, but only on the helipads, and only when you trip an alarm. If you're getting caught out, they're probably coming from an area you haven't covered off. I'm pretty sure they can be on the lower gantries encircling the platform; they just won't go down there until you climb the stairs so that you don't trip an alert.

I think that it's an important element because it adds variety. You have to think in three dimensions. It probably works better in the main game world; a lot of the FOB design feels pretty basic so that you can learn the layout. It's only the central platform for each hub that has any variety.

They were towards the helipad and stood directly next to each other which made me think they did spawn together. I definitely didn't set any alarm off or get spotted, that's why it surprised me. Either they spawned or the Nocto stuff didn't highlight them for some reason. I did have a strange glitch in single player where two guards had spawned while I was spotted but they were invisible and couldn't move. I could take them out though.

I think the Combat Platform gave me the most trouble, a lot of height but also lot's of blind spots. What can be really helpful though is if you use a wormhole fulton on one guy underneath a platform so that one by one they come to check the noise. I managed to wipe out all but the guy at the very top, above the infiltration point, doing that. Cheap I guess but it was getting frustrating getting spotted.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't use the wormhole fulton (except to get the precious metal containers in the Nova Braga hangar). The whole "parasites allow teleportation" thing was a step too far for me. I could accept everything else in the series' canon, but not that.

 

[Godarm]

The best locations in the game are the ones with multiple avenues, and they play very differently depending on your approach. I think that's the merit of an open world for this kind of game - if it's linear, you're limited in your options; it sort of becomes a puzzle game where you have to figure out the cleanest way through. But the open world format gives you options for you to play around with; it's so much more conductive to experimentation.

Some time back ago, I remember i was watching videos of ep 30 (skull face) on youtube because having difficulties (1st try), in the end tried several methods from the videos (so many methods to reach the long staircases) and finally found 1 that is feasible for my skills at that time.... really opens me to new perspectives after I saw more "stealth" videos...(talk about creativity knows no boundaries, lol)

I agree with you, in addition i believe experience plays a big part too...the more u play the more daring/confident u r and the more things/skills u discover....

Anyways, saw many "weird" and creative videos in youtube....kudos to them...heres a couple for instance...

 

[Peasantslayer]

The D-Walker seems incredibly OP and I haven't even scratched the surface in terms of what can be unlocked for it.

Can you use a member of the Combat Unit as a buddy? I seem to recall seeing 2 members of the combat unit on the loadout screen of some YouTube gameplay.

 

[Samus]

I never even used D Walker until the end game, just wasn't interested in using it.

For 30 doing it properly sticking to the far left at all times was my method. Got very hairy in the second last block, cutting through the building with locked doors and a camera with the heli above but I cracked it.

Speaking of cameras is it just because of my playstyle or are there really not many of them? I think I've seen 3 all game, excluding FOB obviously.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I never even used D Walker until the end game, just wasn't interested in using it.

Yeah, I don't use him, either. His handling feels very clunky.

Speaking of cameras is it just because of my playstyle or are there really not many of them? I think I've seen 3 all game, excluding FOB obviously.

I've seen quite a few, mostly on Afghanistan and largely in Yakho Oboo and OKB Zero.

Can you use a member of the Combat Unit as a buddy?

No. The only human buddy that you can get is Quiet.

 

[Samus]

I saw one at the back entrance to the airport and that one at OKB, plus I think one more somewhere else.

Perhaps I either got lucky in missing them without realising they were even there or it was just because of my play style. In the 'aware' meter thing cameras has never been more than mid/bright white. The others like helmets usually goes bright red until I stop headshotting and it goes back down.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

In the 'aware' meter thing cameras has never been more than mid/bright white.

I'm not really sure how it's measured, but it's the hardest one to trigger.

I think the Combat Platform gave me the most trouble, a lot of height but also lot's of blind spots. What can be really helpful though is if you use a wormhole fulton on one guy underneath a platform so that one by one they come to check the noise. I managed to wipe out all but the guy at the very top, above the infiltration point, doing that. Cheap I guess but it was getting frustrating getting spotted.

FOBs would be considerably better if you could actually build your base. As it is, all you do is gather resources and GMP, then build a default platform and tweak the security settings. But if you had a blank platform, you could then place components and structures as you wished. Of course, there would have to be limitations to prevent prople from deliberately making infiltration impossible, but it would allow a lot of variety and customisation and really add to the longevity of the game.

 

[Samus]

I'm not really sure how it's measured, but it's the hardest one to trigger.

Yeah those indicators are strange things, also not really noticed a difference after doing a bunch of the dispatch missions to cut them off etc.

So I've been doing the event FOB but it's a little dull now. If I decide to try a proper player FOB how many times are they able to/likely to retaliate? Just once, or could I end up having someone constantly attacking if I attack them?

Also If i'm reading right I can try one of the security challenge bases and not risk retaliation?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If I decide to try a proper player FOB how many times are they able to/likely to retaliate? Just once, or could I end up having someone constantly attacking if I attack them?

Just the once.

Also If i'm reading right I can try one of the security challenge bases and not risk retaliation?

I honestly have no idea.

 

[Samus]

Just the once.


I honestly have no idea.

Well it says that in the description, can't retaliate, so I guess so.

Anyway I've now got 8 missions left to get an S Rank and a lot more objectives. I still haven't looked at online guides, I want to figure them out for myself first. Mission 50 was tough but made easier once I had grade 6 CGM.

It's a shame there aren't more subsistence levels, they are fun. The last one, grabbing the colonel and taking out the tanks was interesting, trying to find some equipment to take them out whilst also getting to the note. After a couple of runs I'd only found a couple of missiles, not enough, then I interrogated the right guard to find out about the truck at the guard post. Grab it, park it across the road and then pounce on them with the fulton before they destroy it and move on. No gun used at all.

Still need to do it again without being spotted though to get the S, not sure how tricky that will be. The colonel or another guy spotted me whilst I was fultoning them out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Still need to do it again without being spotted though to get the S, not sure how tricky that will be. The colonel or another guy spotted me whilst I was fultoning them out.

I did it by ...

Spoiler

Calling Pequod in to the easternmost landing zone. Don't call it for air support - call it as if you're going to board it. The convoy is on a timer, but if you head east at the intersection after the outpost, you can force it to spawn. I think there is a bombed-out building after a canyon and followed by a crest. When they see Pequod, they will stop and fire at him (so make sure you outfit him with some heavy duty armour). So if you hide after tripping the convoy spawn point, you can Fulton the tanks out while they're busy shooting at Pequod. Even if you get spotted, you should complete the mission so quickly that you can get an S rank regardless.

 

[Samus]

I did it by ...

Spoiler

Calling Pequod in to the easternmost landing zone. Don't call it for air support - call it as if you're going to board it. The convoy is on a timer, but if you head east at the intersection after the outpost, you can force it to spawn. I think there is a bombed-out building after a canyon and followed by a crest. When they see Pequod, they will stop and fire at him (so make sure you outfit him with some heavy duty armour). So if you hide after tripping the convoy spawn point, you can Fulton the tanks out while they're busy shooting at Pequod. Even if you get spotted, you should complete the mission so quickly that you can get an S rank regardless.

I was determined to make my plan work. I had stealing the tank and getting to the room to spawn the convoy down but getting the Fulton trap just right was hard. Had to find the perfect spot that I could quickly move in to extract tank 1 before it destroyed the block. But then that obviously triggers the guys in the middle truck to get out. So I had to belly flop round to the back tank, extract it without it seeing me, then quickly move back in for the truck.

That took a few attempts because the first tank nudges the blocker sometimes so the truck can drive past it. Finally got it just right and got the important perfect stealth no kill bonus to get 135k.

Felt so good to finally nail it, no fudging, no guns, just pureish espionage. Might even try it again and get it perfect with no checkpoint reloads.

One S left now, mission 40 ..

Spoiler

Need to have a think how to do it with the two tasks for no weapons/lethal. I know the supply drop fudge doesn't work. I assume the intended way is to shoot the highlighted loose blocks to make the structures crumble when she is under them but it seems almost impossible, she rarely seems to go in the right spot, then you've no time to get a shot in usually.

 

[Jawehawk]

It's a shame there aren't more subsistence levels, they are fun. The last one, grabbing the colonel and taking out the tanks was interesting, trying to find some equipment to take them out whilst also getting to the note. After a couple of runs I'd only found a couple of missiles, not enough, then I interrogated the right guard to find out about the truck at the guard post. Grab it, park it across the road and then pounce on them with the fulton before they destroy it and move on. No gun used at all.

Or, it's a shame that no one at Kojima Production raised their hand at a meeting and said, "Hey, you know what would be cool? If during loadout selection, the player could opt to drop in without any equipment at all, thus making every mission playable as a subsistence level, without forcing players to play through the same missions again, and completing the same tedious objectives twice."

That would be what is called good game design.

 

[Samus]

True, I never understood why we have to take a big clunky rifle on every mission. I don't mind the extra objectives as long as they are actually related to the main task but far too often there are objectives massicely out of the way you'd never naturally do them as you do the main objective. Usually reaching prisoners in the next town 2km away when you otherwise have no reason. To go there on the mission.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Usually reaching prisoners in the next town 2km away when you otherwise have no reason.

There's only really two missions where it's an issue. "Back Up, Back Down" is a bit of a pain; rescuing the prisoners could be a mission in its own right - a mass break-out from Yakho Oboo. But if you embrace it, it's actually a really enjoyable mission. The other one is when you go into Da Wialo Kallai, but there's no time limit like in "Back Up, Back Down".

One S left now, mission 40 ..

A sandstorm helps. A lot. But there's only half a dozen positions Quiet occupies, so after a while, you can anticipate the approximate area she will be in - it helps because it reduces the time you spend searching, which reduces the time she has shoot at you. And you can play with a lethal loadout and get an S rank; a high-ranking AMR or Serval rifle might save you an extra bullet to get her health down to zero.

 

[Samus]

There's only really two missions where it's an issue. "Back Up, Back Down" is a bit of a pain; rescuing the prisoners could be a mission in its own right - a mass break-out from Yakho Oboo. But if you embrace it, it's actually a really enjoyable mission. The other one is when you go into Da Wialo Kallai, but there's no time limit like in "Back Up, Back Down".

Not sure how many times it happens but whilst cleaning up some I missed I did the first mission and you have to go Wakh Sind to extract a commander. I don't see how or why anyone would have gone there during the mission, especially when you're told you need to get to Miller fairly quickly.

A sandstorm helps. A lot. But there's only half a dozen positions Quiet occupies, so after a while, you can anticipate the approximate area she will be in - it helps because it reduces the time you spend searching, which reduces the time she has shoot at you. And you can play with a lethal loadout and get an S rank; a high-ranking AMR or Serval rifle might save you an extra bullet to get her health down to zero.

I got the S last night with the Serval but I'm lost as to how I'd get the objective for not using a gun at all. I did manage to get her with some debris shooting a block but it took about an eighth of her health at the most, so to get that 8 times seems unlikely.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I got the S last night with the Serval but I'm lost as to how I'd get the objective for not using a gun at all. I did manage to get her with some debris shooting a block but it took about an eighth of her health at the most, so to get that 8 times seems unlikely.

It's one of the trickiest objectives in the game, up there with hitting the Third Child in "Voices". Making the buildings collapse is one way of doing it, but an easier way is to call in a supply drop. Tag Quiet, then call in a weapon or piece of equipment to land on top of her. A low-level handgun is enough; that will keep the costs down. Stick your head up at the last minute to get her attention - once the counter is under 100 should be okay; under 60 is ideal - then duck for cover. If you don't, she tends to jump away at the last level. Doing it four or five times should be enough.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Not sure how many times it happens but whilst cleaning up some I missed I did the first mission and you have to go Wakh Sind to extract a commander. I don't see how or why anyone would have gone there during the mission, especially when you're told you need to get to Miller fairly quickly.

I have to wonder if that mission was originally supposed to play out quite differently. Kaz would have been a high-value target to the Soviets, so the Wakh Sind commander would be involved in his interrogation. At the start of the mission, you would get a choice: go to Da Wialo Kallai and get the intel, which is easy, but would give you a general idea of where Kaz is being held; or abduct the Wakh Sind commander, which is harder, but would give you the route Kaz is being transported by and mark the incoming prison convoy on your map.

 

[Samus]

I have to wonder if that mission was originally supposed to play out quite differently. Kaz would have been a high-value target to the Soviets, so the Wakh Sind commander would be involved in his interrogation. At the start of the mission, you would get a choice: go to Da Wialo Kallai and get the intel, which is easy, but would give you a general idea of where Kaz is being held; or abduct the Wakh Sind commander, which is harder, but would give you the route Kaz is being transported by and mark the incoming prison convoy on your map.

I get the feeling a lot of missions were constantly fiddled with and changed before release.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I get the feeling a lot of missions were constantly fiddled with and changed before release.

It's known that there is an entire third chapter that was cut from the game.

Spoiler

Snake goes deep into Africa - an entirely new location - to track down Eli, the Third Child and Sahelanthropus. He finds that Eli has released the vocal chord parasites onto the population and has created a Lord of the Flies-style society with the child soldiers. Snake finds that Eli has since hit puberty, making him vulnerable to the patasites. He offers Eli one last chance to rejoin society, but abandons him when Eli rejects him, thus explaining Eli's hatred of Big Boss. The final scenes show the Third Child removing the parasites from Eli.

You can view what remains of it - it's estimated that only about 30-40% was completed befofe Konami pushed for a release - on YouTube if you search for "Episode 51".

It's also believed that Kojima had fifty unique missions in mind, each with four variations: normal, extreme, total stealth and subsistence.