MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

  • Thread starter Dennisch
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TenEightyOne
Abbott followed through on his promise to get tough with Putin. I'd hate to see him when he really kicks off!
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Oh, that is shirt-fronting. See, traditionally, shirt-fronting requires combatants to strap a weapon of choice to their chests. As Abbott issued the challenge, Putin got to choose the weapon. He suggested "live bear", and Abbott won on a technicality, as koalas are not bears.
 
prisonermonkeys
Oh, that is shirt-fronting. See, traditionally, shirt-fronting requires combatants to strap a weapon of choice to their chests. As Abbott issued the challenge, Putin got to choose the weapon. He suggested "live bear", and Abbott won on a technicality, as koalas are not bears.
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This is how wars should be fought really, and it's great TV.
 
TenEightyOne
This is how wars should be fought really, and it's great TV.
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Once upon a time the King clad himself in armor, and with lance and sword, led his Knights and archers into battle.

That, and nothing else, is proper war. Since then the art of war has degenerated into a racket which profits the arms-makers, and impoverishes all others.
 
@Dotini - I think you're missing the point of the joke. Abbott was never going to shirt-front Putin. He was just posturing for the media when he made the threat (and odds are he didn't even know he was making a threat). But weaseling out of a commitment on a technicality and then claiming a moral victory whilst denying any wrongdoing has become a hallmark of the Abbott government.
 
The last transport of plane parts have arrived in the Netherlands today. Finally the investigation can start, but I doubt that the culprits will ever be found.
 
Dutch media are reporting that there are photos made by an eyewitness which show a plume of smoke from the ground up to the sky which all lead to the evidence of a surface to air missile. The photos have been examined by experts and they claim that the pictures aren't altered in any way.

RTL Media doesn't want to publish the pictures or give the name of the photographer for the safety of the photographer.
 
Dennisch
Dutch media are reporting that there are photos made by an eyewitness which show a plume of smoke from the ground up to the sky which all lead to the evidence of a surface to air missile. The photos have been examined by experts and they claim that the pictures aren't altered in any way.

RTL Media doesn't want to publish the pictures or give the name of the photographer for the safety of the photographer.
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So far there has been no video or photos of a smoke trail from the surface, either from the ground or from a satellite. If such evidence exists, it should be provided to the public. There is no such evidence if it is merely proclaimed but held in secret.
 
Dennisch
Dutch media are reporting that there are photos made by an eyewitness which show a plume of smoke from the ground up to the sky which all lead to the evidence of a surface to air missile. The photos have been examined by experts and they claim that the pictures aren't altered in any way.

RTL Media doesn't want to publish the pictures or give the name of the photographer for the safety of the photographer.
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Lies, my source says putin fired lasers from his eyes and rockets from his finger tips. I have it on video, but I can't show or give the name of my source for his safety.
 
VolkswagenX
Lies, my source says putin fired lasers from his eyes and rockets from his finger tips. I have it on video, but I can't show or give the name of my source for his safety.
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Dotini
So far there has been no video or photos of a smoke trail from the surface, either from the ground or from a satellite. If such evidence exists, it should be provided to the public. There is no such evidence if it is merely proclaimed but held in secret.
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Oh, yee of little faith.

RTL is actually a pretty credible source and I expect that the pictures will be released any time soon.

The government also claims that they have the photos.

The source, learn Dutch before clicking
 
Dennisch
Oh, yee of little faith.

RTL is actually a pretty credible source and I expect that the pictures will be released any time soon.

The government also claims that they have the photos.

The source, learn Dutch before clicking
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My Dutch is better than my English. I know RTL news and I had a little chuckle at the 'credible source' part. They should stick to crappy entertainment (I do enjoy Voetbal Insite :P ).

It's the same 'it's classified' nonsense we Dutch have been fed by the US empire. I also love how they already found experts to tell us all they examened the photos and that they haven't been altered so we can all go to bed now.

We won't know what happend to MH17 untill they show some actual evidence. I somehow feel alot of people will be disapointed when they find out what actually happend (what ever that may be). Whats the point of even wrighting that article whitout showing the evidence? We know what happend but we're not going to tell you..
 
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A defence specialist, Hans Bax, who also served as an interpreter for politicians in Russia claims that Russia has eliminated those responsible for firing the rockets to make sure there is no one left to blame.
 
Dennisch
A defence specialist, Hans Bax, who also served as an interpreter for politicians in Russia claims that Russia has eliminated those responsible for firing the rockets to make sure there is no one left to blame.
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That's full on! are they sure though?
 
Dennisch
A defence specialist, Hans Bax, who also served as an interpreter for politicians in Russia claims that Russia has eliminated those responsible for firing the rockets to make sure there is no one left to blame.
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Nemtsov was one of them, I guess. :D
 
Dutch media are reporting that evidence has been found that it was indeed a BUK missile that shot down MH17.
 
Sergej Nikolajevitsj Petrovski, a former high ranking officer in the Russian army and now reportedly the Vice minister of Defense in the self proclaimed Republic of Donetsk has been recognized on tapes released by the public prosecutor dealing with the case.

It has been said that it is the first major evidence that high ranking Russian are involved in the shooting of the plane, or delivery of the BUK rocket system.

I think we might actually see someone being convicted for this heinous crime. Or Russia already got rid of all the loose ends. :P
 
In particular, it was announced that The Hague was aware of the insecurity of the airspace over eastern Ukraine still a few days before the collapse of the Malaysian ship. The authorities of the Netherlands informed the Dutch diplomat, but this information was not given to the airlines, said on Thursday the radio station Deutsche Welle
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Netherlands secretive almost 150 documents about the plane crash near Donetsk (You mught need to use Google Translate)
 
147 documents will remain classified as long as the investigation continues. Protection of witnesses, and more of that sort.
 
Australia's 60 minutes did an investigation into this on tonight's program and pretty much confirmed with all possibility that the Russians had done this with Anti Aircraft Machinery.

Not only that but going by Pictures shown of Said Anti Aircraft on the back of a Semi-Trailer and then comparing those photos to places in Ukraine where that picture was taken show it's deep in Russian controlled Territory(they claimed the Anti-aircraft Silo was in Ukrainian territory and thus it was Ukraine that shot the plane).

Now they can't confirm fully on the exact times on when these pictures happened so Im not fully convinced on what they then went on to say, where it looked like they had set up to hit this plane well before it went into the flight path, as the Weapon used actually requires to be lifted off the trailer of the truck to be used to shoot(but given the random location of where it Shot the missile from it does makes sense as it doesn't exactly add up to being there for a period of time as patrol given the location).

However if this is the case this is seriously disgusting by the Russian Government and I honestly can not see a stronger will to be declared war on then that, it would not even be a war crime at that stage only Terrorism.
 
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"60 Minutes" is not a reliable source. It's no better than "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight".

Furthermore, how can they claim that the Russians are absolutely responsible when they cannot confirm when the photos were taken? And if true, why hasn't this been confirmed by any intelligence agencies?

"60 Minutes" haven't provided any actual evidence of anything new, and certainly nothing that disproves the generally-accepted theory that pro-Russian separatists accidentally shot the plane down whilst targeting Ukrainian military flights in the area. The "story" is little more than a cynical ratings grab as the first anniversary of the shoot-down approaches.

But I can tell you one thing - if and when the truth about MH17 becomes known, it won't be revealed by a trashy tabloid television show looking to cash in on ratings.
 
One of the photos were used by the Russians as proof they didn't do it as they claimed the Missile Silo on the Truck was in Pro Ukrainian areas, yet the pictures they used where in Pro Russian controlled areas, the exact track was also found in several other areas all within Russian Controlled regions of Ukraine, very close to the region of where the missile is believed to have came from.

Now 60 minutes is not reliable ill admit but they did go in detail quite extensively so i'll give them that on this occasion(they obviously tried to gain a conclusion though from evidence which can't be considered conclusive evidence though, so they are still true to form).

I do not think there is enough proof to suggest it is more then an accident though due to unconfirmed Time on the pictures of the truck.

Nothing new obviously came from this but this is the first time I have looked into the matter since the first week it happened(generally don't get to into detail with things like this until we get a full report), but given Im at work with the TV on in my lunch break I guess I made a premature entry to this subject.
 
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mustafur
I do not think there is enough proof to suggest it is more then an accident though due to unconfirmed Time on the pictures of the truck.
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You should probably read this thread in more detail. As @prisonermonkeys basically said, if the truth is ever properly outed it will be by authorities with access to correct information, not a mass vox-pop ad-seller.

I'm not sure that anybody on either side has said that the Buk system was operating "deep within Russian-held territory", it was operating in/around Donetsk Oblast which was in the hands of pro-Russian rebels*, not the same thing. If indeed the system was used to destroy MH17 (which does seem likely, to my mind) the question is about the supply operation for the rebels - again likely from the Russians.

Saying "the Russians did it" seems a bit of a distortion at the very least.

*Actually being fought over, but majoritively in the hands of the DBM.
 

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