Michael Moore: Charlatan or Social Commentator?

[Mike Rotch]

I have not seen any movies he has made. But from his remarks at Cannes, and from reviews I have read on his previous movies/documentaries he seems to be as objective as a judge on the take.


To me he is simply pandering to public opinion in his films and coining it in as a result. Have you seen his stuff? What are your opinions?

 

[Solid Fro]

He's an idiot.

 

[ledhed]

And a peckerhead.

 

[///M-Spec]

Why, I dearly love sensationalistic editorials disguised as film.


M

 

[Joey D]

I thought Bowling for Columbine sent a terriable and misleading message. Not all gun owners are crazy, I have several weapons and I have never killed any humans. I'm also not a incrazed person from Michigan like he shows. He makes my state look like a joke.

I know he is intitled to his opinions but he takes facts an twistes them so much that they agree with him. Which is bad media on his part.

So I really think he needs to shut up until he get some true facts.

Also there is a point when you are to liberal....same goes for conservatives, there is a point were it is to much.

 

[911_Carrera]

Personal opinion but I think he's a writing genius.

 

[RallyF1]

he is a genius, simply put. he lays out the facts and it's up to you to agree or disagree

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by RallyF1
he is a genius, simply put. he lays out the facts and it's up to you to agree or disagree

And when he can't find any facts to twist into shape, he won't hesitate to make them up out of thin air.

Why is it no surprise to find that you think he's a genius? Roll and eyes.

 

[Famine]

While I find the programmes Moore and his ilk - Mark Thomas in the UK - are generally amusing, sometimes informative and occasionally even thought-provoking, I will always be aware that there are very, very few truly objective people out there and they are rarely moved to making expensive films.

 

[Kent]

Originally posted by neon_duke
And when he can't find any facts to twist into shape, he won't hesitate to make them up out of thin air.

Why is it no surprise to find that you think he's a genius? Roll and eyes.

No joke man.

You know, if moore had been using facts throughout his career, maybe he wouldn't have had to stage a town in canada where people left their doors unlocked for that movie "bowling for columbine".

Fact is, Moore is a biased, left winger with a major agenda and a serious hate for anything that doesn't agree with him.

He likes to act as if he is truely knowledgable on the important subjects of the day, and tries to use those subjects as a base for his own political propaganda.

Moore is a bad person.

He exploits victims and villians alike.

It's just sad to me that the rest of the world is showing its true colors by giving such overwhelming support for this horrible anti-american fool.

I'm not sorry, but I am sad... I don't like the idea of the world not appreciating what America represents, but I guess I will just have to deal with it.

Although I must admit, it must be easy to dislike America. Not only is it the cool thing to do, but it is also an enjoyable thing to do... remember, ignorance is bliss, and acting as if America is what is wrong with this world is nothing short of ignorant bliss.

 

[Pupik]

His big hit was "Roger & Me", about how the closure of the GM plant in Flint, Michigan virtually destroyed the economy of an city. One hundred thousand people were laid off, and things got ugly.

Michael Moore sought to find Rodger Smith, the CEO (?) of General Motors at the time, and the film was how the town and it's people coped with unemployment. It was also the quest for Mr. Moore to find Mr. Smith and ask him why he'd closed a plant when GM was making millions (maybe even billions?) in profits and yet putting lots of people out of work.

I don't know howmuch truth-twisting there was in that movie, but like any documentary or news report, it's usually 50% truth, 50% lies, and therfore, the answers lie somewhere in between. I've haven't heard that many complaints about that movie compared to many others, but it seems he does turn things around to his agenda to prove a point.

On the other hand, his short-lived "TV Nation" was a much-needed kick to TV viewers, even though it was about 10 years since it's been on the air. And his Christmas special featuring holiday songs sung by people with tracheotomies in the lobby of R. J. Reynolds was one of the funniest and yet, disturbing things I've ever seen on TV.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I never watched any of his films, and I don't need to. I already know he's full of ****, so what's the point of watching his stuff? There is none, so why watch it?

The reason GM shut down the Flint Michigan plant was simple. They needed to maintain the price of their stock, and to increase it a bit, to keep the intrest of their investors.

 

[Klostrophobic]

He's a ****wad. I've seen all of his movies for laughs, and I intend to see Fahreheit 911.

I can't say I agree with anything he's ever said, but he can make an entertaining movie.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by RallyF1
he is a genius, simply put. he lays out the facts and it's up to you to agree or disagree

Good grief, man. How can you sleep at night?

Michael Moore is a LIAR. And so are you.

Try reading the link ///M posted.

 

[Kent]

Originally posted by milefile
Good grief, man. How can you sleep at night?

Michael Moore is a LIAR. And so are you.

Try reading the link ///M posted.

Well said. 👍

M-spec's link was a good site for showing just how bad moore is.

It really makes me sick sometimes when I think about the people out there who believe in the views that moore has, and it is all because I can't do anything about it.

I guess that's why I get so sick of politics from time to time.

I mean, as an example, it seems like I spend 3 years thinking about politics very deeply, then when year 4 rolls around and the presidential elections are here, I get burnt out and all my friends are just starting to wander into the political arena of discussion.


Oh well... not much I can say or do besides stick to my views and stay true to myself.

 

[Joey D]

If any of you lived in Michigan you'd see how stupid he really was. Look at Flint now, its a beaten city for sure, but if it wasn't for GM that city would have be ruined on several times over.

I go to Flint all the time, I live about 30 miles from there, and I work at General Motors...well sorta its a summer internship. There is no way the company is ruining anything. "Roger & Me" irratated me beyond belief.

Michael Moore says facts very seldomly. In fact I really couldn't see to many facts with in Bowling for Columbine. Like that work program at Great Lake Crossing. I live 2 miles from Great Lakes Crossing and the Dick Clark resturant closed sometime ago. So it beats me how that had anything to do with anything. He also made it sound like a long trip from Flint to Auburn Hills, let me tell you its only about a 25-30 minute drive. Thats a short commute as far as Michigan is conserned.

So if you want to know about things that go on in Michigan ask someone from the state thats not a complete bastard and who gives you the facts.

 

[Crayola]

Originally posted by BlazinXtreme
I thought Bowling for Columbine sent a terriable and misleading message. Not all gun owners are crazy, I have several weapons and I have never killed any humans. I'm also not a incrazed person from Michigan like he shows. He makes my state look like a joke.

I know he is intitled to his opinions but he takes facts an twistes them so much that they agree with him. Which is bad media on his part.

So I really think he needs to shut up until he get some true facts.

Also there is a point when you are to liberal....same goes for conservatives, there is a point were it is to much.

What are you talking about? He's a member of the NRA and he is from Michigan or somewhere near there. (I'm not to good at american geography) He never says that everyone is like that, he merely uses well known (and possibly crazy) people and makes a fairly valid point I think. I agree he twists some things but it depends how you look at it. Maybe somethings are just stupid enough that he doesnt have to twist them.

Summing up, I don't think he's against guns, its more to do with gun control. It seems stupid that semi-automatic weapons and such are so readily availible within America. Not to mention how easy it is to obtain ammunition and such. In Sydney, I know of a grand total of about 5 gun stores. I'm sure there are more in other areas but in a city of 4-5 million people its not a whole lot.

 

[K_Speed]

Well he sometimes goes a bit far. But at some points he really gets u, and the people that he interviews. And they just cant answer the question. They would just sit there and repeat something nontopic. Its sometimes amazing,

I think his point in the columbine movie is that people dont realise how dangerous and sometimes pointless guns are and the hatred that guns spread.

This girl got shot because she wanted to buy something to drink, but the worker there thuoght she wanted to steal something and then she grabbed her bag. And the girl punched her to get the bag back, and then boom. Shot, dead. AND FOR WHAT? For what? again, For what? Askin me, its the hatred. If this girl wouldnt have been black then it would have never happened, and if the worker wouldnt have had a gun...it wouldnt have never happened.
Now, Moore thinks that its the guns fault, and it is, I agree. BUT, every shop needs a gun to protect themselves, even homes with kids do need them for protection. But they should lock em away fromt he children. I mean how dumb must you be, and leave a loaded gun on the table??? And the point he was also getting at, why selling bullets at K-Mart (or wasnt it Kmart?)? I think its wrong to do that.


So I am between Moore and the rest. Although I mostly tend to his side.

The book "Dude, where's my country?!" is provoking to most people and stupid too. But he really gets to the point, its a comedy book, but its full of things that some particular stupid people do and think...


anyways....

 

[K_Speed]

Bush should be the charlatan not Moore. I mean harsh spoken, whos the one killing people?

Cenematic Artist, no.

none of the above, C

 

[the_cobbinator]

Moore is funny, but his politics are shody at best. It's like Al Franken; funny guy, but I don't think his political ideals hold water.

 

[frestkd]

another Karl Marx

 

[Delphic Reason]

Originally posted by Famine
While I find the programmes Moore and his ilk - Mark Thomas in the UK - are generally amusing, sometimes informative and occasionally even thought-provoking, I will always be aware that there are very, very few truly objective people out there and they are rarely moved to making expensive films.

My thoughts exactly.....

 

[ledhed]

More like Groucho Marx only not funny.

 

[wellyrn]

Have any of you considered that he might be telling the truth? Most people hate what he has to say. what does he have to gain?

Have any of you actually ever tried researching a claim he makes and seeing if it holds water? Or do you just assume hes lying because someone more right wing says he is?

In my own experience i have come up against people who deny facts that i verified myself.

I have only seen bowling for columbine and i thought it was great. Its not like he stands i front of the camera spouting propoganda he lets the pictures and other people words speak for themselves. Could any of you name 1 lie he tells in BFC so i could check for myself?

 

[RacyBacy]

The issues that Michael Moore tackles are deadly serious. It's shocking watching some of the footage he has on Bowling for Columbine.

For instance you get a gun if you open up a new bank account. Is America totally crazy?!?!?

There are always going to be mixed views on such a sensitve subject. But Michael Moore does have balance. For one, Moore agrees with the National Rifle Association's notion that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

So all you people that have guns, don't take offence because if you are then you are missing the point:

Not all gun owners are crazy, I have several weapons and I have never killed any humans.

The part of the movie where he takes two young victims of that massacre — one paralyzed from the waist down — to the headquarters of K-Mart, the store where Harris and Klebold bought bullets is not the most comforting to watch but it certainly made K-Mart change their mind. They pledged to stop selling hand gun ammunition. If this isn't a success then I don't know what is.

It is interesting that Canada who have a similar amount of gun ownership, don't have anywhere near the amount of firearm-related deaths per capita. That's a fact.

I don't agree with comments such as Moore is "a bad person" either. I think it's pretty immature to say that. Moore, I think, is sincere about wanting to help solve the problems in his documentaries. He's trying to show that American attitudes need to change. Is that so bad?

At the end of the day, gun violence is sickening. Period.

 

[Solid Fro]

Moore has been and will be proven an idiot again.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

Spread the word.

 

[Duke]

Have any of you considered that he might be telling the truth? Most people hate what he has to say. what does he have to gain?

Have any of you actually ever tried researching a claim he makes and seeing if it holds water? Or do you just assume hes lying because someone more right wing says he is?

In my own experience i have come up against people who deny facts that i verified myself.

I have only seen bowling for columbine and i thought it was great. Its not like he stands i front of the camera spouting propoganda he lets the pictures and other people words speak for themselves. Could any of you name 1 lie he tells in BFC so i could check for myself?

You definitely need to go visit this site: http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

You are perfectly willing to accept anything Moore says at face value, because it is bad about Americans or the status quo. This is precisely what he's counting on. Michael Moore will say anything to get a rise out of people, and he will not hesitate for a MOMENT to fabricate and falsify things to make his point.

Why is it no surprise that you think he's wonderful?

 

[wellyrn]

that site is just right wing rhetoric. If i say that pepsi is better than coke and you disagree it doesn't make me a liar.

2 quick examples...

The site: Moore tells the audience that bowling was "apparently the last thing they did before the massacre." Wrong again. Even if the killers didn't skip class, this isn't right. Both Salon.com and the National Review reveal that Bowling class was at 6 A.M. while the killings began around 11 A.M. (Ive never heard of a high school that starts that early.)

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/blindshooter.htm

Most of the movie uses the same techniques that almost every tv and news editor uses. Again, its not lying to express an opinion in an artistic manner. His hypothesis that maybe it wasn't rock music and video games and it could be real life violence that influeces youth... The site argues that: yes it was music and viedo games... Neither opinion is factual, or a lie.

so he can hit a target but he he will only be able to identify ones in physical contact... ok this is scary to me. but still moores opinion could be shared by a good number of people, including me. i bet he isnt allowed to drive, or at least i
hope he doesnt.

This entire site is an editorial calling itself truth and facts.

 

[ledhed]

This entire site is an editorial calling itself truth and facts.

Sounds like you just desribed yourself.

 

[Duke]

^^^^^^
What he just said.

Most of the movie uses the same techniques that almost every tv and news editor uses. Again, its not lying to express an opinion in an artistic manner.

"Expressing an opinion in an artistic manner"?! That doesn't cover patching together bits of different speeches (and concealing that you've done so) in order to fabricate something that a person never actually said.

That's known in the moral world as lying. And it invalidates anything he might have to say.

This entire site is an editorial calling itself truth and facts.

Ohhh, puh-lease. This is quit possibly the most cluelessly ironic thing I've ever heard someone say.