Michael Moore: Charlatan or Social Commentator?

[wellyrn]

You have to learn that not everyone agrees with your opinions. A point of view is not a fact just because you agree with it. Similarly, "puh-lease" is not an agruement, it is just an appeal to those who already share your opinion.

Sounds like you just desribed yourself.

Im making no claim that my opinions are "truth" or facts or that people who disagree with them are liars. That would make what you said dishonest. It's also why the site is dishonest.

 

[RacyBacy]

So far we know (from the various GTP members' replies in this topic) that Michael Moore is an "idiot", a "peckerhead", a "horrible anti-american fool", a "bad person", a "liar" and also that he's "full of ****."

Oh, and that he's a "genius" too!

Is it just me or do the Americans on this site hate Moore more than the Europeans do? Maybe we should have another poll.

 

[wellyrn]

heres another gem from the site...

FACT: - The Columbine killers were thirsty for fame and recognition that they sought to gain through their murders. Mansons stage name is a combination of the name of Marilyn Monroe and convicted murderer Charles Manson. Other band members are: "Daisy Berkowitz" who's named after the New York "Son-Of-Sam" murderer David Berkowitz; "Olivia Newton Bundy," named after serial murderer Ted Bundy; "Zsa Zsa Speck," named after Richard Speck who murdered several nurses; "Gidget Gein," named after Ed Gein, a Wisconsin murderer who engaged in cannibalism and necrophilia; and "Madonna Wayne Gacy," named after homosexual serial murderer John Wayne Gacy who murdered 33 young boys. (1)


This is the same thing as usual, taking 50% of an issue and calling it the truth. Also, the writer adds a footnote calling people who mention that famous women make up the other 50% of the naming a "stoner". The writer is not only capable of divining the psyche of 2 dead teenagers, he can also determine peoples drug use via e-mail. He also does his usual, telling people that the last names are important but the first are not. I would call this a somewhat valid comment (thought still not a fact) if the killers wore drag.

edit: Im lucky i checked this "Fact" which is actually completely untrue. The actual stage names of the other band members are: Ginger Fish, John5, Madonna Wayne Gacy, Twiggy Ramierez and Zim Zum. Someone who wanted to believe him wouldnt have checked this and would assume this "truth" site is actually somewhat truthful.

 

[Duke]

You do know that Manson's band has changed musicians numerous times, right?

You have to learn that not everyone agrees with your opinions. A point of view is not a fact just because you agree with it.

You have no idea whether I think that entire site is fact or not, or whether I agree with the conclusions it draws about Columbine... but I sure as hell know when Moore is lying by taking clips fromn several different speeches and combining them to make it look like a polititcian said something he never did.

Believe me, son, I value dissenting opinions a hell of a lot more than you do. Look up "dissenting" if you don't know what it means. I'm probably one of the more individualist members on here.

That doesn't mean I'm willing to let Moore lie about what other real people said or did. If he put together a 2-hour editorial of himself explaining his opinions, or if he made a fictional movie that told a farcical story about two American teens who were so warped by their horribvle culture that they shot up their high school, I'd say that was great, decide whether I agreed or not, and move on.

But that's not what Moore does. Moore decides his opinion in advance - that's fine, he's entitled to his opinion. But he invalidates himself when he fabricates evidence to support it, then presents it all as a "documentary". It's a bunch of idiotic crap that he's dressing up as facts, trying to outrage people.

 

[RacyBacy]

Dissenting: Difference of opinion or feeling; disagreement... Incase any of you aren't as bright as the super moderator.

He has succeeded in enraging you.

 

[Duke]

No. No, he hasn't. Disgusted, yes, but not enraged or outraged. What's appalling are the number of people who are willing to lap up his brand of crap with a spoon.

 

[wellyrn]

You gave "Bowling for Truth" as a reference for people. I think is only fair that people know the site is not credible. I only looked at a few articles and it was very misleading and inacurate. Mostly it was just presenting opposite views to Moores, which I have nothing against, except as i keep saying opinions are not facts and should not be presented as such.

I haven't used calling you a moron or a dick as an arguement. I also haven't given false information to people with the message "spread the word". Afterward you mention that maybe not everything on the site is true. Well how can anything else you say be trusted? It could just as easily be the same second hand untruths that you got your "information" to base your opinion of Micheal Moore on.

 

[Duke]

I followed the "Blind Shooter" link you posted. What in particular is not credible about it?

And, for the record, www.allmusic.com lists the members of Manson's band as:
John Spector
Daisy Berkowitz
Madonna Wayne Gacy
Twiggy Ramirez
Ginger Fish
Zim Zum
Jim Buni
John5
Gidget Gein
Sara Lee Lucas

Again, where is www.bowlingfortruth.com not credible? So far the only thing your little assasination attempt is hitting is your credibility.

 

[wellyrn]

This isn't going anywhere so im done. I think people should stop attacking Micheal Moore for his art. He is a social commentator, period. Disagreeing with his politics or methods doesn't change that.