Mon 20:00-21:30 UK time - PC2 - Hosted by @IfAndOr - Please refer to new threadPS4

[IfAndOr]

and for an inescapable sense of drama!

Of course, you've got to have some of that. I couldn't make it play a fan-fair unfortunately.

but maybe add a requirement to use two compounds

Not so easy in PC2. There's no option for that. Since it's a relatively short race maybe just a tyre change might work. Or perhaps ask everyone to use the default stop. I'll have a think.

Note your scoring of first two races combined; will this in effect mean score for the round will be all three races combined?

I was thinking of having 2 separate scores - one for each car. This might mean 2 champions (or not!) and someone might just want to do the longer race or vis-versa.
I've no idea on what scoring system to use. Any thoughts of what would be easiest?

 

[half_sourly]

I've no idea on what scoring system to use. Any thoughts of what would be easiest?

Anything is easy after the initial set-up, so I don't mind. Obvious options are:

• One championship where:
  • All three race results are tallied for the round's total score.
  • Best result from the two short races is taken, plus long race, for one score for the round.
• Two championships where:
  • The 'short' championship is either both races (my preference), or best of the two.
  • The 'long' championship is just the result from the one race.

Other things to think about:

• Scoring system: happy to stick with the 20 for 1st, 17th for 2nd, etc. system we use now.
• Could drop lowest score to allow folk a night off somewhere during the championship(s).
• Should there be a bonus point for fastest lap during the race, in F1 style?
• Should there be a points penalty (in the form of say a 5-place demotion) if a driver does not complete the pitstop?

 

[IfAndOr]

Two championships where:

• The 'short' championship is either both races (my preference), or best of the two.
• The 'long' championship is just the result from the one race.

I'd probably say this was the most appropriate to produce the best results. As long as your happy with it.

• Scoring system: happy to stick with the 20 for 1st, 17th for 2nd, etc. system we use now. - Fine, that's OK then
  
• Could drop lowest score to allow folk a night off somewhere during the championship(s). - Good idea, helps with a DC or bad race too. lets go with that.
  
• Should there be a bonus point for fastest lap during the race, in F1 style? - Why not, we've never used that. So yes.
  
• Should there be a points penalty (in the form of say a 5-place demotion) if a driver does not complete the pitstop? - The game gives a quite long time penalty if a compulsory stop isn't taken, so that's taken care of.

Thanks for your ideas. Appreciated. 👍

I'd like to have an handicap system that would help the slower drivers but it's not so easy in PC as GT. Even reverse grids aren't possible - that's why the 2nd race random grid might help.

 

[half_sourly]

All good.

One more thought: With my keyboard and your advice I can now (and do every race) move my viewing position so that I effectively have a 'bonnet cam' view, but would like the freedom of choice of viewing position.

 

[IfAndOr]

but would like the freedom of choice of viewing position.

Not a problem.

 

[Oldbass47]

Is this second race on the same night? Points system seems ok and the extra point for fastest lap is good. Shame about the reverse grid though.

 

[IfAndOr]

Is this second race on the same night?

Yep. All 3 races are held during the one evening. It'll be 2 sprint races followed by 1 longer main event. Just remember not to exit back to the menu in-between races (although I think you can still rejoin with the same invite).

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Hi @IfAndOr - I think minutes works better than laps as it saves the Host a lot of prep / testing time and is much easier for sticking to a schedule - also easier to drop 5 minutes off races to adjust on the fly for late running, however the compulsory pit stop option is only available with laps (from memory) so would need to be on trust if minutes was used, but that hasn't been a problem in the past.

Extra points for fastest lap is a nice idea - I didn't implement it, but have been thinking about now that @half_sourly is doing such a great job of the scoring. My suggestion is to make the fastest lap worth more than one point. In F1 now it's just a token, but originally when F1 gave an extra point for fastest lap it was really worth having as there was only 5 points on offer for a win! 3 points for fastest lap would take you to the original intent of those early score designers.

PS - I don't mind your series being on the same thread and would be happy to do the posters and update page 1.

 

[IfAndOr]

Hi Sick. Day off?

however the compulsory pit stop option is only available with laps

Yes it is, unusually, not sure why. I'll have a think about the time/laps thing. Maybe the sprints on laps and the "endurance" on timed... I'll ponder.

My suggestion is to make the fastest lap worth more than one point.

Could do. The only problem is that often the fastest laps go to the usual drivers. Perhaps points for most stylish crashes might be a thing.

Edit: Just saw "PS - I don't mind your series being on the same thread and would be happy to do the posters and update page 1" 👍 We'll see how it goes.

 

[John Wells]

Think this will work quite well, on earlier time.👍

 

[half_sourly]

Yes - especially after watching this wheel users review:

I was just watching a bit of Kie25 streaming on PC3 and he said (1 hour 48 in) for a proper SIM, he uses ACC, for in between, GT Sport, then PC3 is the arcade game for fun. He said it in a complimentary manner, insofar as PC3 fills a gap left by DriveClub, Grid, NFS Shift and other games of that arcade genre.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Hi Sick. Day off?

Yes - but don't tell anyone or I might get given extra chores!

Regarding Overall Points and points for fastest lap - you are right that the fastest lap is often set by the winner so 3 points for fastest lap wouldn't work well. An alternative is the simple 16 to 1 system i.e. 16 points for 1st down to 1 point for 16th with 1 extra point available for fastest lap. (I will probably be using that system or a similar one for my next series on GTS).

Another points system you could use takes account of the number of people in the room i.e. if there are 8 people then 1st is worth 8 points and last place is worth 1 point - this has the advantage that last place is always worth 1 point while the points for top placings vary according to the number in the room, which is logical as it is much easier to score a podium in a half empty than a full room. With that system you could also easily have the extra point for fastest lap.

I think that system would work best without dropped scores.

Unfortunately I've just received a call instructing me to go shopping so my thoughts have to end for now!

 

[IfAndOr]

insofar as PC3 fills a gap left by DriveClub, Grid, NFS Shift and other games of that arcade genre.

I think that's what they were aiming for - but with much better car physics and also adding GTS type online organised races and events. Calling it "3" has confused the Sim crowd though, understandably really.


Race idea tweaked a little. Probably will continue to be until finalised and then republished.
Formation lap with a rolling start added to race 3. Cooling down laps for all races. Might as well use all the PC2 features!

 

[IfAndOr]

Sorry typing while you were posting!

Another points system you could use takes account of the number of people in the room i.e. if there are 8 people then 1st is worth 8 points and last place is worth 1 point - this has the advantage that last place is always worth 1 point while the points for top placings vary according to the number in the room, which is logical as it is much easier to score a podium in a half empty than a full room. With that system you could also easily have the extra point for fastest lap.

Hmm, sounds quite a good idea. You perhaps wouldn't get a run away winner then. Although it might make it a little complicated for Mr Halfsourly. So maybe 16 to 1 might be better.

 

[half_sourly]

I like the points system which depends on the number of players. It will be a little more work, but not much. Happy to support that.

 

[IfAndOr]

Since John asked over on PSN here are the two cars I'm thinking of using.

The Renault Sport RS01 and Renault Sport Mégane SMS-R TCC. A RS series

 

[John Wells]

Thanks Paul good little cars.

 

[jammy21]

@Sick Cylinder Wheel user all the time.

Reverse grid can be done during formation lap.

 

[John Wells]

What's track list Paul are we racing Monday?

 

[half_sourly]

Reverse grid can be done during formation lap

Do you mean 'manually' by drivers just taking different slots (so if I qualified 2nd last, I take up grid slot 2), or is there a PC2 setting? If the former, that may cause issues unless we do a PS Party so we can talk to each other.

 

[jammy21]

Yes manually everyone move right spot after race start during couple of first corners. Should be ok, done it many this.

Do you mean 'manually' by drivers just taking different slots (so if I qualified 2nd last, I take up grid slot 2), or is there a PC2 setting? If the former, that may cause issues unless we do a PS Party so we can talk to each other.

 

[IfAndOr]

What's track list Paul are we racing Monday?

Since it's not quite finalised yet I thought we could perhaps have a test meeting next Monday. It would help to see if the idea worked - and if I can control it!
Also it would see if everyone liked the format. I can then make tweaks or changes if necessary.

For the test let's use Sakitto International for the sprint races and Sakitto National for the longer race. If all is okay we'll start with the championship proper the week after - I'll get a track list sorted out, on it now actually.

I'll take the Megane touring number 65 and the R.S. 01 number 7. They are a similar colour scheme.

Note it's not the GT3 R.S. 01

 

[half_sourly]

Since John asked over on PSN here are the two cars I'm thinking of using.
View attachment 952878
The Renault Sport RS01 and Renault Sport Mégane SMS-R TCC. A RS series

Just looking at the PC2 car list and there are two R.S. 01s, the 2015 RENAULT SPORT R.S. 01 GT3 and 2015 RENAULT SPORT R.S. 01. To me they look like the same car, but one is under GT3s and the other under Miscellaneous. Just checking which one it is we should use. [EDIT: I see you have edited your above post and answered this question.]

For the shorter races, is the one you have in mind 2016 RENAULT MEGANE R.S TOURING?

Different topic - POINTS. I'm building the scorecard and some questions have come up:
- Have we agreed then on last place score 1, then +1 for every better position, so that 1st place points equal number of drivers?
- If someone is a DNF it will impact the points allocation (each finishing driver will get one less). Can we agree that a DNF scores nil, but that their entry is counted toward the points? That means if 10 start and 1 DNF, place 9 (last finishing place) scores 2, 8 scores 3, up to 1st scoring 10.
- Shall we settle on 2 points for fastest lap (between the initial 1 suggested and the later 5)?
- Propose if the same person gets fastest lap in both sprint races, they score only 2 extra, not 4.
- If different people get fastest laps in sprint races, each gets 2 extra.
- Separate 2 extra for fastest lap in longer race, given it is a different championship.

 

[IfAndOr]

Just checking which one it is we should use.

You were probably typing this as I was editing my previous post. See last bit.

2016 RENAULT MEGANE R.S TOURING
2015 RENAULT SPORT R.S. 01

Have we agreed then on last place score 1, then +1 for every better position, so that 1st place points equal number of drivers? - If that's workable for yourself that seems like a fair system.

If someone is a DNF it will impact the points allocation - Could we give a DC 1 point (just for taking part) with their participation counting towards the overall score - as you suggested.

Shall we settle on 2 points for fastest lap? - 👍 That'll work well with the lower scoring.

If different people get fastest laps in sprint races, each gets 2 extra. - It might be better if it was an overall award for the best lap from the meeting. The points might not run away so quickly then. ?

Separate 2 extra for fastest lap in longer race, 👍

We could see if the system works on the test race, see above.

(Hoping this is not too much work for you )

 

[half_sourly]

Happy with all that; I'll publish a leaderboard after the test round on Monday so that we can see if any unforeseen issues crop up.

 

[IfAndOr]

A free (rainy) afternoon - track list sorted. Lap counts and timing to go. Time of day/season details to finalise. Race details to be be checked and tested. Thank goodness @half_sourly is running the scoring! 👍

There's more to organising these online races than first appears.
@Sick Cylinder

It's slowly coming together now though.

It's looking like a 12 week championship featuring an A to Z of tracks around the world at the moment. So I won't have to organise anything further for a while!

 

[Sick Cylinder]

@IfAndOr - I think fastest lap should only be worth 1 point so that it matches the difference between 1st and 2nd place - with fastest lap normally being set by the race winner if you give more than 1 point you may get runaway scorers. The logic of a single point is that people who are stuck behind a car can drop back to give themselves the room for attack laps and thus equal the points of the person in front of them if they can achieve the fastest lap.

When the extra point was originally awarded in F1, Stirling Moss always tried to get it and would receive a pit signal when he had it. With the races being much longer (3 hours+) and the cars more fragile there was quite a risk in going for FL - F1 cars were not capable of running at 100% for a full race distance.

I remember there being a point for fastest lap in BTCC at one time and I think it was Tim Harvey who came in and put on soft tyres - he was out of the points so finishing position didn't matter so the time lost on the pit stop didn't matter.

You could do the FL point just on your Feature race or all the races - you could have the extra point for the sprint race on qualifying if you wanted more variety.

With 12 round series you need to be really sure that the cars feel great / are really popular - that's one reason why I switched to 8 round seasons. Maybe a car change at round 7 if running 12 rounds?

Just suggestions.

 

[IfAndOr]

Cheers @Sick Cylinder. I'll see how this test race goes and then maybe make some adjustments. What do you think to Sick's scoring ideas @half_sourly?

With 12 round series you need to be really sure that the cars feel great / are really popular

I know what you mean but these two cars are pretty good fun with fairly predictable handling so hopefully they should be popular. The fact that there's 2 cars and different layouts should keep folks interested. We'll see!

I'm going to force on authentic driving aids for the faster machine hoping it'll help those who might struggle otherwise.

 

[half_sourly]

One point is probably better, giving an extra 12 potential points across the series, for each championship.

I note Sick's idea of just feature race or all three, but since the two championships are separate, and to keep it simple, I propose we stick to a point for fastest lap in the race (not qualifying):
- Across the two sprint races
- For the long race.

 

[IfAndOr]

I propose

Fair enough, we'll stick to that idea and see how it goes.