Monday Night Touring Car Challenge
- Thread starter dabneyd
- 162 comments
- 5,648 views
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I don't know, with no modifications, just race modding, it's at 506PP. I don't think we're going to have an absolute PP limit set for the lower class; there's going to be a list of eligible cars (in progress) and a list of mods for each car. The open class is going to be just that, PP limited, but open to any touring car. However, the definition of touring car might include LM, DTM, JGTC, and GT3/500 cars.
Last edited:
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
To kill two birds, sorta, I was planning on driving the NSX around the Indy Road Course tonight. I don't know which car I'll use for the series (I was hoping for something new from the DLC, but they all appear to be way too high or way too low). I like the Integra TC and the Silvia RM, too. But... I was marginally faster in the NSX, and it would be an interesting change.
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
Sounds good to me. I'm going to be on around 9 and I think we should run touring races from 10-11 and then run some laps in Lemons cars from 11 on. I would like to get some people in both class of cars tonight, if possible.
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Cool. From what I see...
Car detail: About the same (for GT5 premiums at least).
Damage: FM4 adds paint chips and damage that portrays the impact that occurred. Very nice. GT5 still can't get damage right. You have to beat the crap out of a car to get anything remotely like that...and we all know it doesn't take much to wrinkle a fender or dislodge a bumper IRL.
Track Surface: Here is another place where FM4 excels. GT5's tracks look like low quality jpegs compared to FM4's highly detailed surfaces with distinct skid marks already present on the track showing you the proper line. Even without the tire marks, the actual pavement has more visual detail giving you a better sense of speed. Even the NFS series has better track surfaces than GT5.
Background, lighting, and everything else: Looks about the same, not enough to sway me one way or the other.
Physics: I haven't played FM4 so I can't comment specifically, but from what I've heard it isn't as good as GT5...but it seemed fine in the video.
A.I. Hard to tell since I rarely race A-spec anymore and haven't seen any improvements they've made to GT5. From the video, they looked about even except the FM4 drivers were fighting harder for their position while GT5 drivers tend to just back off.
BTW, I'm still waiting for damage like this (taken at LRP last May). This guy ran about 20 laps with the bumper hanging before it finally fell off. Unlike NASCAR, they just left it on the track. It didn't get cleaned up until a late race caution allowed a cleanup crew to swing by and grab it.
Car detail: About the same (for GT5 premiums at least).
Damage: FM4 adds paint chips and damage that portrays the impact that occurred. Very nice. GT5 still can't get damage right. You have to beat the crap out of a car to get anything remotely like that...and we all know it doesn't take much to wrinkle a fender or dislodge a bumper IRL.
Track Surface: Here is another place where FM4 excels. GT5's tracks look like low quality jpegs compared to FM4's highly detailed surfaces with distinct skid marks already present on the track showing you the proper line. Even without the tire marks, the actual pavement has more visual detail giving you a better sense of speed. Even the NFS series has better track surfaces than GT5.
Background, lighting, and everything else: Looks about the same, not enough to sway me one way or the other.
Physics: I haven't played FM4 so I can't comment specifically, but from what I've heard it isn't as good as GT5...but it seemed fine in the video.
A.I. Hard to tell since I rarely race A-spec anymore and haven't seen any improvements they've made to GT5. From the video, they looked about even except the FM4 drivers were fighting harder for their position while GT5 drivers tend to just back off.
BTW, I'm still waiting for damage like this (taken at LRP last May). This guy ran about 20 laps with the bumper hanging before it finally fell off. Unlike NASCAR, they just left it on the track. It didn't get cleaned up until a late race caution allowed a cleanup crew to swing by and grab it.
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I can't really make an accurate judgement on the physics until I get a wheel that is compatible with both. I'm currently using the 360 wireless wheel with the pedals from the G25. The wheel is crap and the pedals register 100% at about 50% of their total travel. So, until I can drop $250 on the Fanatec CSR, I'll hold back judgement. That being said, I don't really feel much difference with the physics when I'm driving with a controller.
To me, the GT5 AI seems unchanged after 2.0. They still drive like AI, but FM4's AI drives like people. In other words, FM's AI is leagues better.
Nicktune
Premium
- 1,265
- T-R
- Nic-KL
I played both // While racing in fm4 they ram you like if they are not aware of your position (really annoying)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdXriG8P31E
Some tracks like the nurburgring are flat...the lighting is not as good either...
@huyler Give it a go (if you can) It's the best way to get the best idea of what it is...
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I know, I was trying to stir the pot.
Yeah, they are definitely more agressive. However, the FM drivers will take more drastic evasive action if required. The GT5 AI will just run into you. It seems the FM drivers consider damage while the GT ones don't. I think it just stems from the "pasted in" nature of the damage in GT5.
Anyway, what difficulty settings do you use in FM?
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
My problem with them, the FGT championship specifically, is that they don't race fast enough when you are close by. Try to follow one through the Esses at Suzuka and they'll slam on the brakes. Try to follow them from 130R into the final chicane and they will brake 300ft too soon. In order to slow their pace down, the logic has them slamming the brakes and gas at the wrong places on the track...which is impossible to follow.
Anyway, back on topic. We didn't have many good battles last night. Nic and I are roughly equivalent skill wise, but I couldn't find a car that would allow us to battle equally. I think he stayed in the EVO the whole night and I used him as a bench mark.
Atenza: Acceleration was about equal when I was in his draft. At high speeds if I was close enough I could pass, but at low speeds he could pull away. I lost the most time in the double hairpin at Indy. It just didn't have the same grip or power exiting the final hairpin. Maybe I need to adjust camber, LSD, and torque converter options, or perhaps the EVO just has wider tires. I'd have to drive it and see for myself.
Mazda6: Much faster in a straight line but same story when it came to mid corner grip. I was able to pull away exiting the double hairpin simply because I had more power.
Camaro RM: At 519pp it was too fast. I could make mistakes and still pull away. Grip was not a problem for the car. At 495pp it had more equal acceleration but too much aero was removed and it lost front end bite. I think I had aero at 15/30 when I was losing time to Nic. I wanted to try again with aero at 20/25 but he skipped that race.
In conclusion, I don't see running these cars "bone stock" as a proper way to equalize them. I think next we should do a weight and power limitation but prohibit additional parts unless they are required to meet the power level.
Lets say 1050kg / 300hp. Start with the car in stock trim. If it has more than 300hp, use power reduction. If it has less, add on some parts to get it to 300. Add ballast to get it to 1050kg. Aero settings are open. A few cars will be over 1050kg but not by much. If they end up being too slow because of the weight, then we can bump the weight requirement to 1100kg.
Anyway, back on topic. We didn't have many good battles last night. Nic and I are roughly equivalent skill wise, but I couldn't find a car that would allow us to battle equally. I think he stayed in the EVO the whole night and I used him as a bench mark.
Atenza: Acceleration was about equal when I was in his draft. At high speeds if I was close enough I could pass, but at low speeds he could pull away. I lost the most time in the double hairpin at Indy. It just didn't have the same grip or power exiting the final hairpin. Maybe I need to adjust camber, LSD, and torque converter options, or perhaps the EVO just has wider tires. I'd have to drive it and see for myself.
Mazda6: Much faster in a straight line but same story when it came to mid corner grip. I was able to pull away exiting the double hairpin simply because I had more power.
Camaro RM: At 519pp it was too fast. I could make mistakes and still pull away. Grip was not a problem for the car. At 495pp it had more equal acceleration but too much aero was removed and it lost front end bite. I think I had aero at 15/30 when I was losing time to Nic. I wanted to try again with aero at 20/25 but he skipped that race.
In conclusion, I don't see running these cars "bone stock" as a proper way to equalize them. I think next we should do a weight and power limitation but prohibit additional parts unless they are required to meet the power level.
Lets say 1050kg / 300hp. Start with the car in stock trim. If it has more than 300hp, use power reduction. If it has less, add on some parts to get it to 300. Add ballast to get it to 1050kg. Aero settings are open. A few cars will be over 1050kg but not by much. If they end up being too slow because of the weight, then we can bump the weight requirement to 1100kg.
- 591
- Easley, SC
- spooble
I want to run in the open class, but I've been sticking to the lower class in testing just because that's what everyone else was running. I think it makes it more difficult to test when someone throws down a much faster lap in a higher PP car, and I didn't want to be "that guy".
Someone made the comment last night that it felt like it was just the 450pp crew running at 500pp. I tend to agree. With the stickier tires, even at 500pp you have to try pretty hard to get the cars out of shape. The only time I struggled at all was with some excessive wheel spin coming out of slow corners in an FF car, and that's just because I don't like (or know how to drive) FF cars.
Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit. I'm sure that at least a touch of throttle control is being employed, but it's pretty easy to keep the cars under control. It just occurred to me that we've only run short races in testing, and the 500pp cars might keep us more on our toes as the tires go away, but I have no experience with longer races, so I don't know for sure.
The Open Class cars (580PP-ish) that I've driven seem to require a bit more finesse to keep the back end in check. I'm not a fast driver so my plan is to try to be consistent and let the other drivers make mistakes, and I think my odds for success with that plan are greatest in the Open Class.
That being said, I drove the RM Evo for the first time last night and I'd gladly run that all season long if we just run the lower class.
Oh, and don't forget all the new cars coming out today. O.o
Someone made the comment last night that it felt like it was just the 450pp crew running at 500pp. I tend to agree. With the stickier tires, even at 500pp you have to try pretty hard to get the cars out of shape. The only time I struggled at all was with some excessive wheel spin coming out of slow corners in an FF car, and that's just because I don't like (or know how to drive) FF cars.
Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit. I'm sure that at least a touch of throttle control is being employed, but it's pretty easy to keep the cars under control. It just occurred to me that we've only run short races in testing, and the 500pp cars might keep us more on our toes as the tires go away, but I have no experience with longer races, so I don't know for sure.
The Open Class cars (580PP-ish) that I've driven seem to require a bit more finesse to keep the back end in check. I'm not a fast driver so my plan is to try to be consistent and let the other drivers make mistakes, and I think my odds for success with that plan are greatest in the Open Class.
That being said, I drove the RM Evo for the first time last night and I'd gladly run that all season long if we just run the lower class.
Oh, and don't forget all the new cars coming out today. O.o
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I don't totally feel that way. I think what he was saying was that the same drivers at the front of the 450 nights have been the same as the ones at the front during these practices. Yes, the more experienced drivers are going to dominate the lower class; they know the fastest lines. I don't know what to do with that information though. Do I get everyone to run a lap in the same car and then seed the classes that way? Do I just let people pick and see where it falls?
The Open Class cars (580PP-ish) that I've driven seem to require a bit more finesse to keep the back end in check. I'm not a fast driver so my plan is to try to be consistent and let the other drivers make mistakes, and I think my odds for success with that plan are greatest in the Open Class.
That being said, I drove the RM Evo for the first time last night and I'd gladly run that all season long if we just run the lower class.
Oh, and don't forget all the new cars coming out today. O.o
I like the 'Touring' class cars, there are a lot of them that have really close performance in stock trim. The same seems to be true of the 'GT' cars, but I haven't tested those enough.
The Evo can be bumped up to the GT class.
I'm so ready for the new cars. Testing on Spa before/after the Lemons pre-season race?
ps. It seems the DLC will be available at 5pm EDT.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I wasn't planning on buying the expansion pack right away. I'll wait for the price to drop. I don't need the extra cars and I'm sure everyone else will make Spa available too me. Call be a cheap bastard but I just don't see the need to spend $15 when I can continue to have fun for free. When they offer an expansion pack with 10+ tracks and cars I might actually drive more than once...then I'll splurge.
Me spooble and garris want to run open class. Im not sure what Nik wants to run.
That would put 3/4 people in open class and 5/6 for touring class.
Thats just going by the people that have responded to this thread.
I ran one race last night in a FTO at 560. I had no problem catching up to huyler and nik at 495, obviously. But it was hard to get around them. I actually couldn't in the time I had left. I think it would be fun to have two classes racing on the track at the same time.
How many do you think we need to make a class?
That would put 3/4 people in open class and 5/6 for touring class.
Thats just going by the people that have responded to this thread.
I ran one race last night in a FTO at 560. I had no problem catching up to huyler and nik at 495, obviously. But it was hard to get around them. I actually couldn't in the time I had left. I think it would be fun to have two classes racing on the track at the same time.
How many do you think we need to make a class?
