Monte Carlo
- Thread starter Eagle
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Shumie screwed up, I have no clue as to what he was doing in the tunnel but he left a good 40 foot skid mark even before he and JPM made contact. The fault is soley shumies, he could have been warming up his tires but doing it in the tunnel isnt the place to do that.
Odd way to exit the race.
Odd way to exit the race.
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- Inland Empire SoCal
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Whoever is stupid enough to come here before watching the race deserves to have the race ruined for them.
- 19,311
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YYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!
Awesome finish! Wow, what a race.
The team I wanted, the man I wanted, to win, won!
Awesome finish! Wow, what a race.
The team I wanted, the man I wanted, to win, won!
- 1,209
DON´T READ, IF YOU HAVEN`T WATCHED THE RACE!
The race was very good! Very close finish. Montoya slammed Schumacher in the tunnel. That was very dramatic.. If I saw right, The safety car put the lights back on and Schumi did a lock-brake-thingo. Montoya goes too fast, tries to get pass Schumi on the inside, but then he collides with Schumi..
And that Alonso´s crash was also dramatic. His own fault though. He was lapping Ralf, so there was no real competition. He shouldn´t try to pass Ralf in the tunnel, the next corner would´ve been much safer.
Sato´s broken engine caused the Fischichella-Coulthard thingo. There was so much smoke then.
The right man won indeed. Good job both, Renault and Bar. Again, Kimi had engine problems. That´s why I´m not a great fan of Mercedes..
But the race was IMHO the best race of the season. So much happened in the race. Jags couldn´t make it to finish though
The race was very good! Very close finish. Montoya slammed Schumacher in the tunnel. That was very dramatic.. If I saw right, The safety car put the lights back on and Schumi did a lock-brake-thingo. Montoya goes too fast, tries to get pass Schumi on the inside, but then he collides with Schumi..
And that Alonso´s crash was also dramatic. His own fault though. He was lapping Ralf, so there was no real competition. He shouldn´t try to pass Ralf in the tunnel, the next corner would´ve been much safer.
Sato´s broken engine caused the Fischichella-Coulthard thingo. There was so much smoke then.
The right man won indeed. Good job both, Renault and Bar. Again, Kimi had engine problems. That´s why I´m not a great fan of Mercedes..
But the race was IMHO the best race of the season. So much happened in the race. Jags couldn´t make it to finish though
Brett
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- Oklahoma
Just like RSCosworth said, if you haven't watched the race, don't read this post!!!
I don't think Schumi's wreck was all JPM's fault, but at least part of it. Just like the SPEED announcers, I don't think we will ever get the real truth unless Schumi's comes out and tells us.
Alonso's crash was just pure stupidity on Alonso's part . . . not too smart there. I didn't actually see the crash happen live--SPEED and the eight billion commercial breaks--but I did manage to see that something had happened to him. Once SPEED came back to coverage, they did a whole lot of covering the accident.
Poor Taku. His luck with reliability is almost as bad as Kimi's.
I don't think Schumi's wreck was all JPM's fault, but at least part of it. Just like the SPEED announcers, I don't think we will ever get the real truth unless Schumi's comes out and tells us.
Alonso's crash was just pure stupidity on Alonso's part . . . not too smart there. I didn't actually see the crash happen live--SPEED and the eight billion commercial breaks--but I did manage to see that something had happened to him. Once SPEED came back to coverage, they did a whole lot of covering the accident.
Poor Taku. His luck with reliability is almost as bad as Kimi's.
- 303
Spolier
(But I'm revealing anything that hasn't already been posted)
That was a very awesome race, indeed.
About the MS incident... I don't think JPM can be all to blame. You can't pass during SC... so why would JPM try and overtake? Like the SPEED announcer sugested... maybe he got caught off guard with MS suddenly braking. But then again he could have gone off to the outside.
It'll be interesting to see what they have to say in the next few days. MS has got to be fuming.
Too bad Sato's engine failed. He had a really good start. They should have pulled him out early... but then I don't think the race would have been as exciting.
(But I'm revealing anything that hasn't already been posted)
That was a very awesome race, indeed.
About the MS incident... I don't think JPM can be all to blame. You can't pass during SC... so why would JPM try and overtake? Like the SPEED announcer sugested... maybe he got caught off guard with MS suddenly braking. But then again he could have gone off to the outside.
It'll be interesting to see what they have to say in the next few days. MS has got to be fuming.
Too bad Sato's engine failed. He had a really good start. They should have pulled him out early... but then I don't think the race would have been as exciting.
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- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
I don't think Schumacher's retirement was Montoya's fault at all. Schumi dropped anchor in a very unexpected place, Montoya tried to avoid him, but Schumi made matters worse by cutting to the right and squeezing Montoya as he tried to avoid rearending Schumacher.
Alonso just made a bonehead, hasty move, and paid for it.
Alonso just made a bonehead, hasty move, and paid for it.
Nasadus
Premium
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- Nasadus
M.Schumacher is not to blame,he is allowed to do that.When behind the Safey Car the leader decides the pace of the cars behind him,so he braked(i don't know why) and Montoya tried to pass when he is not allowed to.Montoya should have been paying attention.
And it was Ralf's fault for slowing down in the tunnel on the inside lane,he could have let him pass after the tunnel with ease.Alonso did not expect that and was caught by surprise and as any human beign would do he steered away from Ralf and went on the dirty side of the track,lost grip and went into the wall.
And it was Ralf's fault for slowing down in the tunnel on the inside lane,he could have let him pass after the tunnel with ease.Alonso did not expect that and was caught by surprise and as any human beign would do he steered away from Ralf and went on the dirty side of the track,lost grip and went into the wall.
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I think the main point is this. Schumacher is entitled to set the pace but, accelerating quickly and then braking hard inside a tunnel where it is hard to see is not the smartest thing to do.
JPM didn't try to pass. JPM was trying to avoid a rapidly decellerating Ferrari.
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Yes, Schumacher was allowed to do that, but he was braking hard enough (for whatever reason) to lock up his outside front tire -- much too hard to just be brake-checking the field or getting ready to warm his rear tires with a burst of acceleration. And he wasn't looking behind him, because he clearly closed the door on Montoya when Montoya was taken by surprise and tried to save it by diving to the right.
No Alonso was on it hard and trying to sneak around before he got into the marbles. Even after that wreck you could see the line went dangerously close to the slaggy stuff before cutting to the inside. Alonso just misjudged and couldn't tighten up soon enough because he was not clear of the slower car yet. You can see where the car just started to understeer on the loose stuff, but he was overcommitted. If you saw the replay, Alonso gave Ralf the finger as he was sliding out of the tunnel, but it was his fault.
- 466
Heres what I deducted from watching the incident.
Apparently MS was braking and gasing to warm up the tires. Then just after the camera swithces from tunnel entrance to the tunnel apex and exit camera MS lockes up his left front tire.
Shumie clearly went more than a few car lenghts with the left front locked up, rubber was being laid down. I'm Just estimating 40 feet, its not like anyone jumped on the track and measured it. DO keep in mind this was before the contact. MS had the left front locked up and he was headed straight for the outside wall, he was in the slag as well at this point. Then JPM went to the inside to avoid running right into the back of the ferrari, then Shumie drove back down into JPM, JPM had his right side tires right next to the armco, he couldnt go any further without wrecking himself. MS makes contact with JPM"remember MS is the one who's turning into the inside line, JPM holds his line right next to the wall" After the contact MS smacks the inside armco then pinballs into the outside armco. There was no way for JPM to know that Shumie was comming back down into him until it was too late.
So in conclusion, Shumie was at fault JPM held safetycar pace and his line. This wouldnt have happened if Shumie wasnt drastically warming up his tires in the tunnel and gotten into the slag.
I'm a shumie fan but even I can tell that he messed up after watching the replays.
I'm no JPM fan but what was he suppose to do? Slam on his brakes and cause a bit pileup in the tunnel instead of avoiding MS? Or should he just have piled into the back of Shumie? The same result would have happened either way, one of the race leaders would have been taken out.
Apparently MS was braking and gasing to warm up the tires. Then just after the camera swithces from tunnel entrance to the tunnel apex and exit camera MS lockes up his left front tire.
Shumie clearly went more than a few car lenghts with the left front locked up, rubber was being laid down. I'm Just estimating 40 feet, its not like anyone jumped on the track and measured it. DO keep in mind this was before the contact. MS had the left front locked up and he was headed straight for the outside wall, he was in the slag as well at this point. Then JPM went to the inside to avoid running right into the back of the ferrari, then Shumie drove back down into JPM, JPM had his right side tires right next to the armco, he couldnt go any further without wrecking himself. MS makes contact with JPM"remember MS is the one who's turning into the inside line, JPM holds his line right next to the wall" After the contact MS smacks the inside armco then pinballs into the outside armco. There was no way for JPM to know that Shumie was comming back down into him until it was too late.
So in conclusion, Shumie was at fault JPM held safetycar pace and his line. This wouldnt have happened if Shumie wasnt drastically warming up his tires in the tunnel and gotten into the slag.
I'm a shumie fan but even I can tell that he messed up after watching the replays.
I'm no JPM fan but what was he suppose to do? Slam on his brakes and cause a bit pileup in the tunnel instead of avoiding MS? Or should he just have piled into the back of Shumie? The same result would have happened either way, one of the race leaders would have been taken out.
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- gtxlr
Truilli was unable to do anything about his accident.
The rate of Speed he was travelling and the complete lack of speed of Ralf would have ended in a massive rear end shunt had he not gone around, he could have slammed the brakes and trailed ralf out of the tunnel, but Ralf was already duly bound to get out of JT way under the blue flag rule, did he:? No he blatantly sat on the racing line Dawdling along with a 160mph renualt roaring up behind him.
I used to rate Ralf with a little more credit but lately he blatantly has no professional dignity on track.
As for MS/JPM Always thought brake testing someone in an F1 on a warm up lap/safety car lap was gonna cause accidents, especially when its not in a braking zone, and the guy behind who is accelrating with you has no idea you just stepped on the brakes.
Im slighlt gonna favour JPM and say.
Dont Brake Test on the Straight, if you wanna generate heat run your foot on the brake in the straights to create friction, while under power, then brake hard in the braking zones.
The rate of Speed he was travelling and the complete lack of speed of Ralf would have ended in a massive rear end shunt had he not gone around, he could have slammed the brakes and trailed ralf out of the tunnel, but Ralf was already duly bound to get out of JT way under the blue flag rule, did he:? No he blatantly sat on the racing line Dawdling along with a 160mph renualt roaring up behind him.
I used to rate Ralf with a little more credit but lately he blatantly has no professional dignity on track.
As for MS/JPM Always thought brake testing someone in an F1 on a warm up lap/safety car lap was gonna cause accidents, especially when its not in a braking zone, and the guy behind who is accelrating with you has no idea you just stepped on the brakes.
Im slighlt gonna favour JPM and say.
Dont Brake Test on the Straight, if you wanna generate heat run your foot on the brake in the straights to create friction, while under power, then brake hard in the braking zones.
About the MS/JPM incident:
Schumi was in his right to heat up his brakes and tires as he wished. He was the race leader and has the control of the pace behind the safety car (as stipulated in the rules). This incident proved once more that Montoya can't drive, as he was not able to avoid running into Michael, and didn't even have business worrying about positions since he was one lap down and had Trulli (2nd position) on his back. Furthermore, I too have seen the race and the replays, but I've also read the drivers comments on www.f1.com prior to saying any bull**** on account that I might like a driver more then another. The facts remain that Montoya has less and less business behind the wheels of a Formula 1 car.
Juan Pablo Montoya, Williams (4th):
It was a good race for me, since when you start ninth in Monaco you cannot hope to finish fourth. The car felt ok but like yesterday, we were just not quick enough. With regards to the contact with Michael in the tunnel, Michael braked very hard as he was warming up his brakes and I moved to the right side of the track to avoid him but the gap narrowed and we touched.
Michael Schumacher, Ferrari (DNF):
Firstly I must congratulate Jarno. He did a fantastic job and I am very happy for him as I work closely with him in the GPDA and we meet on the football pitch. Today, I dont think I could have really challenged him, but nevertheless when the accident with Montoya happened I was leading the race. So the situation is that the race leader was knocked out of the race after being hit by a back marker. I am sure there was no deliberate intention on his part and I accept the Stewards decision. I was accelerating and braking just as we do when we go to the grid and in the standard way when running behind the Safety Car. The tunnel was not even the first place I had done it as I had used the same procedure earlier in the lap. A bit of smoke off the wheels is quite normal in these situations as you try to get heat into the front tyres and the brakes. After not the most successful weekend for us, I am really looking forward to next weekend when we will already be at the Nurburgring for one of my home races.
About the RS/FA incident:
Those who saw the same footage I did will know that Ralf was at fault and ran wide in the middle of the tunnel. He should have already let Fernando pass him even prior to that location to begin with as he was a backmarker.
Fernando Alonso, Renault (DNF):
First of all, I have to congratulate Jarno and the team for the win: we really worked hard in the winter, and this is the first reward. In terms of my race, everything was going well and I was quite comfortable behind Jarno. The car had a good balance, and was easy to drive; I was just following Jarno and was intending to push at the second stops. The reason for the crash is pretty simple: I was lapping Ralf, and he ignored the blue flags for the first seven corners. He slowed down to let me by at the entrance to the tunnel, then got back on the throttle and pushed me wide. There's no grip on the outside there, and I lost control. It's extremely frustrating, and cost us a one-two finish."
I'd like to add that MS has been a prince about the initial start of the reace where he would have complained that maybe his alignement was off from the start when Sato bumped him..... oh ..... right ......... MS isn't the crybaby that JPM is
Schumi was in his right to heat up his brakes and tires as he wished. He was the race leader and has the control of the pace behind the safety car (as stipulated in the rules). This incident proved once more that Montoya can't drive, as he was not able to avoid running into Michael, and didn't even have business worrying about positions since he was one lap down and had Trulli (2nd position) on his back. Furthermore, I too have seen the race and the replays, but I've also read the drivers comments on www.f1.com prior to saying any bull**** on account that I might like a driver more then another. The facts remain that Montoya has less and less business behind the wheels of a Formula 1 car.
Juan Pablo Montoya, Williams (4th):
It was a good race for me, since when you start ninth in Monaco you cannot hope to finish fourth. The car felt ok but like yesterday, we were just not quick enough. With regards to the contact with Michael in the tunnel, Michael braked very hard as he was warming up his brakes and I moved to the right side of the track to avoid him but the gap narrowed and we touched.
Michael Schumacher, Ferrari (DNF):
Firstly I must congratulate Jarno. He did a fantastic job and I am very happy for him as I work closely with him in the GPDA and we meet on the football pitch. Today, I dont think I could have really challenged him, but nevertheless when the accident with Montoya happened I was leading the race. So the situation is that the race leader was knocked out of the race after being hit by a back marker. I am sure there was no deliberate intention on his part and I accept the Stewards decision. I was accelerating and braking just as we do when we go to the grid and in the standard way when running behind the Safety Car. The tunnel was not even the first place I had done it as I had used the same procedure earlier in the lap. A bit of smoke off the wheels is quite normal in these situations as you try to get heat into the front tyres and the brakes. After not the most successful weekend for us, I am really looking forward to next weekend when we will already be at the Nurburgring for one of my home races.
About the RS/FA incident:
Those who saw the same footage I did will know that Ralf was at fault and ran wide in the middle of the tunnel. He should have already let Fernando pass him even prior to that location to begin with as he was a backmarker.
Fernando Alonso, Renault (DNF):
First of all, I have to congratulate Jarno and the team for the win: we really worked hard in the winter, and this is the first reward. In terms of my race, everything was going well and I was quite comfortable behind Jarno. The car had a good balance, and was easy to drive; I was just following Jarno and was intending to push at the second stops. The reason for the crash is pretty simple: I was lapping Ralf, and he ignored the blue flags for the first seven corners. He slowed down to let me by at the entrance to the tunnel, then got back on the throttle and pushed me wide. There's no grip on the outside there, and I lost control. It's extremely frustrating, and cost us a one-two finish."
I'd like to add that MS has been a prince about the initial start of the reace where he would have complained that maybe his alignement was off from the start when Sato bumped him..... oh ..... right ......... MS isn't the crybaby that JPM is
- 466
A bit of smoke off the wheels? Flat spotting them isnt good. Thats one BIG lock up if you ask me. Even if they hadnt of made contact I bet Schumi would have had a wheel vibration while at speed. Either way he would have been screwed cause he'd have to pit under the green.
- 2,767
Since when hitting the brakes in an almost blind spot so hard that the car leaves a 40 ft skidmark is a smart thing to do? This is high speed racing, not a sunday drive, it has nothing to do with Montoya's racing talent.
for the Alonso incident, his hasty move was caused by frustration about Ralf not giving the way after getting blue flags for several corners. Not a very clever move from Fernando, but it was also very stupid from Ralf. Wili Weber said if Williams want to drop Ralf before the end of the season, they better have a very good reason to do so... I think that won't be so hard to find.
Finally an interesting race at Monaco! Very good race for Trulli and Button 👍
for the Alonso incident, his hasty move was caused by frustration about Ralf not giving the way after getting blue flags for several corners. Not a very clever move from Fernando, but it was also very stupid from Ralf. Wili Weber said if Williams want to drop Ralf before the end of the season, they better have a very good reason to do so... I think that won't be so hard to find.
Finally an interesting race at Monaco! Very good race for Trulli and Button 👍
- 466
He was 4-5 carlenghts behind prior to the lock up. The entire field was bunched up at this point.
Question is how fast were they going? Thats a pretty long skid mark so they had to be doing a fast pace.
Say you were doing 55 mph on the highway and your two seconds behind someone and they suddenly slam their brake pedal flat to the floor "remember F1's dont have brake lights" would you be able to avoid it? Especially if you were in a dark tunnel? The answer is NO, you either plow into their rear end or take evasive action.
Backmarker or 2nd place it doesnt matter. The lead car or the car in front of you is responsible to at least take some care in what they are doing while warming up their tires,brakes....ect.
Question is how fast were they going? Thats a pretty long skid mark so they had to be doing a fast pace.
Say you were doing 55 mph on the highway and your two seconds behind someone and they suddenly slam their brake pedal flat to the floor "remember F1's dont have brake lights" would you be able to avoid it? Especially if you were in a dark tunnel? The answer is NO, you either plow into their rear end or take evasive action.
Backmarker or 2nd place it doesnt matter. The lead car or the car in front of you is responsible to at least take some care in what they are doing while warming up their tires,brakes....ect.
- 4,274
- New Zealand
- SkylineObsession
- Mangosaurus
It seems as though some of you people have issues/gripes with Montoya - which is clouding your judgement over the incident with Michael...
Anyway - to cut and past my post from GTX;
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Apart from being very happy seeing Michael limping away (see: avatar) the was by far the best GP i've seen in AGES.
Trulli definately deserved the win, unfortunate for Button but at least he gets another well deserved podium. Alonso's mistake i blame mostly on Ralf - but if Ralfie sped up Fernando should have backed off.
Thumbs up for the Minardi drivers for getting out of the way of faster cars nine times out of ten.
Great run of lap records by Michael - had me worried that the race would be his (or close to).
Sato's engine blow up. The engine blowups don't make jack all difference on most other tracks - but when they go at Monaco. Look out - somone turned off the lights. Lucky that Giancarlo landed on an angle instead of completely upside down.
So. Back to normal next week then?
Anyway - to cut and past my post from GTX;
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Apart from being very happy seeing Michael limping away (see: avatar) the was by far the best GP i've seen in AGES.
Trulli definately deserved the win, unfortunate for Button but at least he gets another well deserved podium. Alonso's mistake i blame mostly on Ralf - but if Ralfie sped up Fernando should have backed off.
Thumbs up for the Minardi drivers for getting out of the way of faster cars nine times out of ten.
Great run of lap records by Michael - had me worried that the race would be his (or close to).
Sato's engine blow up. The engine blowups don't make jack all difference on most other tracks - but when they go at Monaco. Look out - somone turned off the lights. Lucky that Giancarlo landed on an angle instead of completely upside down.
So. Back to normal next week then?
- 2,665
Nurburgring. One week. We'll re-establish the order.
The Alonso incident was an odd one, I'm not sure whether Ralf baulked him in the tunnel or if Alonso was just fool hardy and overestimated his car, either way, I have to say I was laughing pretty hard when I saw him waving his fist out of his car at Ralf even before his car had come to a stop. The magnesium in the rims exploded on impact, that looked cool.
I was however banging my head on the table only minutes later. We've all had our little conjectures about it, no one knows for sure. I think the blame is joint - Michael locked a brake (which is easy enough to do when they're not at temperature, let's not kid ourselves about how hard he was braking vs speed). Montoya did his best to avoid him imo, why Schumacher tried to close the door just escapes me, this wasn't racing conditions. That was something else that got mentioned, that perhaps the pace car slowed, but I didn't notice that. I was curious as to why Montoya was carrying so much speed, it's not like he was revving up for the start, that was half a lap away. The pace car wasn't that far in front of him, so he'd have had to break pretty hard himself to lose that pace even if Schumacher hadn't done that. So I don't know what you can draw from it, I think it was more Michael's mistake than Montoya's, and I personally think Montoya's an arrogant asshole, so that's not easy to say.
There are however a lot of other people who deserve a beating.
Takuma Sato: Go back to where ever the hell you came from. I was sickened to see him walking back through the pits, waving to the fans like he's actually somebody. His car was ailing from the go, David Coulthard claimed he jumped the start by a mile, he tagged Schumacher on the way, he then baulked the field until his engine let go causing a potentially life threatening accident. It was so utterly stupid - Raikkonen's car was going to explode later on and they brought him in before it happened, but Sato just kept at it. He made no attempt to save the car whatsoever, he just kept his foot down until it broke. Coulthard said it best when he was interviewed and says they're a young team and it shows.
Giancarlo Fisichella: What the hell was he thinking carrying so much speed into a wall of smoke with yellow flags everywhere?
Nick Heidfeld: Held up as many people as Ralf and more around the circuit - get the hell out of the way.
The marshalls need to get more liberal with the blue flags, and the drivers need to obey them. They should be given a drive through if they don't then black flagged. So far this season it's been a big issue and Monaco was just appalling.
Oh, as for the conspiracy theory, Schumacher leapfrogged both Raikkonen and Button at the first round of stops, so meh, it sure didn't work.
The Alonso incident was an odd one, I'm not sure whether Ralf baulked him in the tunnel or if Alonso was just fool hardy and overestimated his car, either way, I have to say I was laughing pretty hard when I saw him waving his fist out of his car at Ralf even before his car had come to a stop. The magnesium in the rims exploded on impact, that looked cool.
I was however banging my head on the table only minutes later. We've all had our little conjectures about it, no one knows for sure. I think the blame is joint - Michael locked a brake (which is easy enough to do when they're not at temperature, let's not kid ourselves about how hard he was braking vs speed). Montoya did his best to avoid him imo, why Schumacher tried to close the door just escapes me, this wasn't racing conditions. That was something else that got mentioned, that perhaps the pace car slowed, but I didn't notice that. I was curious as to why Montoya was carrying so much speed, it's not like he was revving up for the start, that was half a lap away. The pace car wasn't that far in front of him, so he'd have had to break pretty hard himself to lose that pace even if Schumacher hadn't done that. So I don't know what you can draw from it, I think it was more Michael's mistake than Montoya's, and I personally think Montoya's an arrogant asshole, so that's not easy to say.
There are however a lot of other people who deserve a beating.
Takuma Sato: Go back to where ever the hell you came from. I was sickened to see him walking back through the pits, waving to the fans like he's actually somebody. His car was ailing from the go, David Coulthard claimed he jumped the start by a mile, he tagged Schumacher on the way, he then baulked the field until his engine let go causing a potentially life threatening accident. It was so utterly stupid - Raikkonen's car was going to explode later on and they brought him in before it happened, but Sato just kept at it. He made no attempt to save the car whatsoever, he just kept his foot down until it broke. Coulthard said it best when he was interviewed and says they're a young team and it shows.
Giancarlo Fisichella: What the hell was he thinking carrying so much speed into a wall of smoke with yellow flags everywhere?
Nick Heidfeld: Held up as many people as Ralf and more around the circuit - get the hell out of the way.
The marshalls need to get more liberal with the blue flags, and the drivers need to obey them. They should be given a drive through if they don't then black flagged. So far this season it's been a big issue and Monaco was just appalling.
Oh, as for the conspiracy theory, Schumacher leapfrogged both Raikkonen and Button at the first round of stops, so meh, it sure didn't work.
