Monte Carlo

[Famine]

Worst race ever...



From a marshalling standpoint.

What the HELL were those marshals thinking of? I counted a total of FIVE marshals standing on the track waving yellow flags - one for Klien at Loews, two for Sato and two for Alonso - directly in harm's way. The marshal at Klien's accident was particularly daft - it would have only taken a similar incident, or even a locked brake, and he'd have been history - another marshal went on track after the snake had passed and dragged him out of the way. Then there was the Sato "is it a red flag, is it a safety car" incident - farcical. It was absolutely a miracle that none of the on-track flag-wavers got taken out.

Schumacher vs Montoya? Schumacher's fault - if you braketest someone, don't be surprised if they nail you. And how come Ferrari are saying Montoya "hit the back" of Schumacher, when he didn't?
Schumacher vs Alonso? Schumacher's fault - although Alonso's inexperience probably didn't help.

 

[Eagle]

The marshalling was pretty poor, that guy at the Loew's hairpin was so lucky. What a stupid place to stand.

Anyone else see the Ferrari guy who was dozing in his chair in the garage before someone else noticed he was on TV and slapped him in the back of the head? That's a shot I want to see again.

 

[l33tc4k30fd00m]

Originally posted by Eagle
Takuma Sato: Go back to where ever the hell you came from. I was sickened to see him walking back through the pits, waving to the fans like he's actually somebody.

Oh like you ya mean? I don't think it's fair to be so rough on the guy without an understanding of what actully happened.

His car was ailing from the go, David Coulthard claimed he jumped the start by a mile, he tagged Schumacher on the way, he then baulked the field until his engine let go causing a potentially life threatening accident.

So I assume that to mean that Sato A. Was told to carry on B. Ignored the order if there was one and C. Actully knew his engine was gonna eat itself in the first place. Because obviously he has to be told something is up if he can't tell himself.

Breakdown of infomation is possible is it not?

It was so utterly stupid - Raikkonen's car was going to explode later on and they brought him in before it happened, but Sato just kept at it. He made no attempt to save the car whatsoever, he just kept his foot down until it broke. Coulthard said it best when he was interviewed and says they're a young team and it shows.

What about Ralf? At any rate. Coulthard was most likely correct.

Anyway, what was with Sato's jumping of the red light? How did this even happen? Do they control the takeoff of cars off of the grid somehow? If not or if there was a failure, why didn't they give Sato a penalty of somekind?

This race was an odd one indeed.

 

[SkylineObsession]

Sato is not wholey to blame for the incident - his team were watching the smoke puff out of the car for four laps and yet they never told him to pit in.

Sato has done better than he has ever done in Formula 1 this season so i don't think 'bashing' him is very warrented (sp).

And the marshalls were probably away in a dream. That guy at the hairpin was only a couple of hand lengths away from either Webber's or Massa's (?) front wheel as the car went past.

There was already a yellow flag at the previous corner as well as one in the center of the hairpin. Anyone who could not see the Jaguar there would have had to had their eyes shut.

 

[Brett]

I don't think you can blame Taku for his engine blowing and not getting off the track knowing it might. If that were the case with every driver, then Kimi might as well not even line up to race! Famine has pretty much summed up the incidents the best so far, along with Duke doing well too.

 

[3rdgenracerX]

Lets not forget the loss of a 250,000 dollar diamond Worst PR stunts ever, i'm sure a corner worker or fan is a happy person after they found it on the ground.

 

[Brett]

Originally posted by 3rdgenracerX
Lets not forget the loss of a 250,000 dollar diamond Worst PR stunts ever, i'm sure a corner worker or fan is a happy person after they found it on the ground.

Did Jaguar really lose it? If they did, ouch! I bet they are , if they did--well not really since $250 grand is chump change to the majority of the teams.

 

[The359]

I see no reason why Sato should have slowed or gone to the pits. Just because there is smoke doesn't mean the engine is going to explode, we've seen cars finish with smoking engines before.

Would you tell Michael Schumacher to get off the track at the Spanish Grand Prix when there was obviously something ailing his engine and he could risk exploding and leaking fluids?

 

[Brett]

Originally posted by The359
I see no reason why Sato should have slowed or gone to the pits. Just because there is smoke doesn't mean the engine is going to explode, we've seen cars finish with smoking engines before.

Would you tell Michael Schumacher to get off the track at the Spanish Grand Prix when there was obviously something ailing his engine and he could risk exploding and leaking fluids?

My point exactly! There is no point at all for Taku to quit just because his car is smoking a little. At this point in the season, it seems Taku and Kimi are going to fight over who can have the most car failures.

 

[heero 12]

For me the race ended with 31 laps to go, I was completely behind Schumie on this one and I'm still scratching my head wondering why he braked, kind of a dumb move if you ask me, and not checking his mirrors before moving back over wasn't too smart either.

I think I know why Schumacher threw his helmet as well, I don't think it was because he was mad at Montoya, I think it was 'cause he was mad at himself.

And as for Alonso, WTF? stupid newb!

 

[TsLeng]

what about the diamond thing?

Haven't heard of it.

 

[Blake]

The marshalling was pretty poor, that guy at the Loew's hairpin was so lucky. What a stupid place to stand.

Anyone else see the Ferrari guy who was dozing in his chair in the garage before someone else noticed he was on TV and slapped him in the back of the head? That's a shot I want to see again.

As for the marshelling, it has to be the most pathetic excuse for marshelling I've ever seen. One of the marshels was standing out on the middle of the track waving his flag...and he dropped it! What a fool, and then he bent down, took his eyes completly off anything that could hit him and picked it up. If there were any cars around it would have been worse.

As for the Ferrari guy falling asleep, that was pathetic, as soon as I saw that I was on the ground!

As for the race, I think the best ever F1 Race I've ever seen. Normally I put the tape in, tape it, watch the first couple of laps and fall asleep while it tapes, but latnight I was on the edge of my bed the whole time. For once F1 hasn't sent me to sleep!

Great race, great result for Trulli, he "Trulli" deserved the win.

 

[Mike Rotch]

For once I have to agree with DC. It was irresponsible for BAR to continue running Sato, when they must have known from telemetry that the engine was going to let go.

At any other race track it would have been fine to let him carry on till it blew, but in the confines of Monaco it was terribly irresponsible. If Fisichella had ended up in the crowd, you all you "Sato had a right to race" posters still be singing the same tune?

At least McLaren had the sense to remove Kimi when they same was about to happen to him. Hats off to Kimi for keeping his head when he was faced with a pall of white smoke when following Sato. 👍

IMO, Schumi and Monty were to blame. Schumi has the right to warm his tyres, although one must question doing so in a dark tunnel. Monty should have also not warmed his tyres via brake testing in a dark tunnel and, if he wanted to do so, should have increased his following distance.

Alonso's accident was 100% his fault. If Ralf was blocking him, let the marshalls do there job and penalise him. By taking the law into his own hands and doing a kamakazi move around the outside. he dug his own grave.

Other then that, welldone to Trulli. I dont think it could have happened to someone more deserving. Also well done to Massa and Heidfeld for "keeping their noses clean" and picking up some valuable points.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Well here is something you haven't talked about yet; what did you think of the new track/pit layout? Do you like the new track design? I think it looked great, much better than before.

 

[The359]

Originally posted by Mike Rotch
For once I have to agree with DC. It was irresponsible for BAR to continue running Sato, when they must have known from telemetry that the engine was going to let go.

Where's this 'must have' stuff coming from? How do you know what telemetry was coming off of the car?

At any other race track it would have been fine to let him carry on till it blew, but in the confines of Monaco it was terribly irresponsible. If Fisichella had ended up in the crowd, you all you "Sato had a right to race" posters still be singing the same tune?

Takumo Sato is not responsible for his engine blowing up, he is not responsible for the engine blowing up in such a way that white smoke came out, nor is he responsible for those behind him not paying enough attention and slowing up enough. So yes, I would be saying the exact same thing. And again, EVEN IF BAR knew that something was wrong with the car, they had no way of knowing it was going to explode. See my previous example of Schumacher's engine problems in Spain.

At least McLaren had the sense to remove Kimi when they same was about to happen to him. Hats off to Kimi for keeping his head when he was faced with a pall of white smoke when following Sato. 👍

McLaren also wanted to keep the engine so they could test it to see why it was failing. If this was 2003, Kimi wouldn't have pulled in.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Originally posted by The359
Where's this 'must have' stuff coming from? How do you know what telemetry was coming off of the car?

<snip>



McLaren also wanted to keep the engine so they could test it to see why it was failing. If this was 2003, Kimi wouldn't have pulled in.

So McLaren knew that Kimi's engine was going to blow, but BAR didnt know the same about Sato?

 

[Nasadus]

The team knows if their car is going to die.They know everything.They have sensors on every inch of the car so yeah BAR knew Sato engine was about to go.It was a tactical decision to let him continue.He held up the field so Button could get away.

 

[DQuaN]

The RS/FA incident, Ralph was at fault. He had Ignored the blue flags for seven corners, he finally slowed down at the entrance to the tunnel but when Alonso pulled out to pass him, Ralph planted his foot on the accelerator. What an ar$e!

 

[under18carbon]

Is it just me or did I see Alonso flash the bird to Ralf (after the crash, out of the tunnel)?

 

[Eagle]

Yeah a few people mentioned that.

My Taku rant may not be entirely justified but I was honestly pissed to see what happened. You can't make me believe he didn't know it was going to happen or that the team didn't either - if you can't notice the smoke shooting out of your car at every gear change you shouldn't be driving.

Would I expect Michael to have gotten off the line? Certainly. You cited Spain, and that's a bad example, because the car wasn't ailing anything like the BAR. But much as Kimi Raikkonen so often had to find fire marshalls in the first few events, I would wholy expect Schumacher to show the same level of professionalism. He hasn't had a technical failure for 44 races now so he hasn't had to in recent memory, that's all.

l33tc4k30fd00m: I don't wave to fans, and I don't think I'm somebody, so way to shoot yourself in the foot. What about Ralf? Well, what exactly about Ralf? He had a failing gearbox yes, and he did a ****ty job of getting out of the way of most people - but he was careful to stay off the rev limited and managed to make a car with practically no gearbox last over 40 laps. That's not 'trying to save the car'?

 

[The359]

Originally posted by Mike Rotch
So McLaren knew that Kimi's engine was going to blow, but BAR didnt know the same about Sato?

And again, I will point out Schumacher at Spain. Ferrari KNEW something was wrong with Schumacher but they did not know it'd blow, so they kept him out. Kimi's engine never blew, but they knew something was wrong with it, and the only reason McLaren brought him in was because they wanted to test the engine. And the same goes with BAR, they may have known something was wrong, but there is no guarentee that the engine would blow.

How can you say that Schumacher's car at Spain wasn't ailing the same as Sato's in Monaco? Do YOU know what caused the Honda to blow?

 

[ExigeEvan]

I don't like the new changes to the track. It has made it slightly easier, and Monaco isn't the place to make things easier.

 

[Eagle]

I realised I forgot to comment on the track: Personally I love the new changes. The pitlane looks like a real pit lane now, and the spectators on the water can see all the action. I think it's excellent. They resurfaced the entire circuit too which has helped a lot. Reclaiming some of the barrier and replacing them with ripple strips does make things easier but I have a feeling it was a safety issue in terms of run off area.

I too saw that marshall drop his flag, that was pathetic.

The359: In Spain Michael Schumacher had a cracked exhaust. Just how could that cause the engine to expire? It had the potential to catch on fire, which it apparently did at the first pit stop, and it had the potential to melt some of the electronics or even suspension components depending on just where the crack was, but the engine itself was running perfectly. There's no comparison.

I recall in Austria last year Juan Pablo Montoya's engine blew under similar circumstances - regularly venting smoke like that, it is often a sign of an ailing engine. Montoya proceeded to drive right the way around the remaining half of the circuit - from what Martin Brundle said, that would grind the inside of the engine to pieces and make it basically impossible to assess what had gone wrong. Meanwhile, they had no problem identifying which specific hose or piece of the engine had caused the failures in Kimi Raikkonen's car this season, despite numerous seizures, failures, explosions and even fires when he left his foot on the throttle to intentionally add fuel to the flames. Perhaps they wanted to see what was going wrong with the car before it actually failed, but given the number of failures for Sato so far this season, why wouldn't BAR do the same?

 

[Mike Rotch]

Originally posted by The359
And again, I will point out Schumacher at Spain. Ferrari KNEW something was wrong with Schumacher but they did not know it'd blow, so they kept him out.


How can you say that Schumacher's car at Spain wasn't ailing the same as Sato's in Monaco?

I refer you to my previous comment of:

At any other race track it would have been fine to let him carry on till it blew, but in the confines of Monaco it was terribly irresponsible.

 

[l33tc4k30fd00m]

Originally posted by Eagle
l33tc4k30fd00m: I don't wave to fans, and I don't think I'm somebody, so way to shoot yourself in the foot. What about Ralf? Well, what exactly about Ralf? He had a failing gearbox yes, and he did a ****ty job of getting out of the way of most people - but he was careful to stay off the rev limited and managed to make a car with practically no gearbox last over 40 laps. That's not 'trying to save the car'?

You're also not and never have been an F1 driver. Don't get all high and mighty, Jesus.

Sato, yeah what a nobody huh? Only an F1 driver after all. That's like what? Being a dustbin man in the world of motorsport?

Oh and you said exactly what I ment about Ralf, thanks I guess.

 

[SouL]

Originally posted by l33tc4k30fd00m
You're also not and never have been an F1 driver. Don't get all high and mighty, Jesus.

Sato, yeah what a nobody huh? Only an F1 driver after all. That's like what? Being a dustbin man in the world of motorsport?

Oh and you said exactly what I ment about Ralf, thanks I guess.

Heh. I was just about to write the exact same thing. How is Sato a nobody? And what's wrong with him waving back to HIS fans? He blew out his engine. His fans were dissapointed. They see him walking down the pit lane... so they wave to him. Just like any normal fan would.

 

[The359]

Originally posted by Eagle
The359: In Spain Michael Schumacher had a cracked exhaust. Just how could that cause the engine to expire? It had the potential to catch on fire, which it apparently did at the first pit stop, and it had the potential to melt some of the electronics or even suspension components depending on just where the crack was, but the engine itself was running perfectly. There's no comparison.

The exhaust crack was at the joint where it meets the engine block. If it can crack right there, it can cause more damage to the engine. There is no way you could tell me with certainty at the moment the problem happened that there was no way the engine couldn't have failed due to that problem.

And I re-iterate, you do not know what caused the BAR to blow up.

Besides, now that I've been thinking about it, Sato may have been coming into the pits that lap. They weren't going to bring him in on the end of the 1st lap because of all the 1st lap chaos. Then by the 2nd lap they want to let him go by and see the problem themselves. Which would mean they'd bring him in on the end of the 3rd lap, which he was on. And I doubt it'd be very smart for him to move out of the way in such heavy traffic suddenly, see Ralf for reasons why.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Originally posted by The359

Besides, now that I've been thinking about it, Sato may have been coming into the pits that lap.

From "BAR never knew the engine was going to expire" to "he was gonna come in on lap 3"?

Very convincing argument.

 

[The359]

I never stated for a fact that either of those were correct. Just the same as you can't say fora fact that you know BAR knew it was going to blow so quickly. They're called plausible theories.

 

[Roo]

Anyone see the marshalling for Webber's car on Thursday? He had to get a fire extinguisher from a marshall and then put his own car's fire out. The marshalling was appalling all weekend. And putting a £200,000 diamond on each car is asking for trouble; if you're going to lose bits of car anywhere, you'll lose them at Monaco.

I believe Ralf only had 4th gear when Alonso tried to lap him, so stopping accelerating at 160mph sounds about right - or a bit too fast. Thus he couldn't go any faster, but how he got round Lowes in 4th, no-one knows.

Michael vs Juan Pablo: Michael's fault, IMO. The tunnel is a silly place to stand on the brakes. A Formula 1 car decelerates very quickly, and Montoya had to dive down the inside to avoid hitting MS. On the outside he would have done a Fernando.The camera angle isn't great for judging who's right or wrong in either accident.

Unlucky for Minardi, finishing 9th; one more retiree and it would have been pay day (possibly - he was 6 laps down, so if any of the remaining cars broke after Ralf, would Baumgartener have got a point?)

Fisi got what he deserved for doing 90 into a cloud of smoke. Had he been hurt (or anyone else, for that matter) it wouldn't be the same, but as it was, then he shouldn't have done it. (Follow me? I don't.)

Best race of the season. Had something for everyone; accidents, chases (Trulli and Button were amazing), and a susprise winner. May all the races be as good as this.