More Gran Turismo 7 Details: Classic Original Circuits, AI Improvements, and GT Sport Content Confirmed

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I haven’t played Burnout, but you say you find in intuitive. Wouldn’t this suggest it’s actually more sim-cade than arcade physics-wise? I understand that Burnout and the ethos surrounding it are identified as arcade, but this shouldn’t distract from our focus on physics, which are where sim-cade definitions derive from.

In my experience it’s:

Simulation = Intuitive
Sim-cade = Intuitive with odd quirks
Arcade = Counter-intuitive

On the subject of physics I think it’s best to talk about intuition rather than difficulty, because the latter can be perceived in multiple ways.


And just to stay on topic, I believe GT7 physics (much like GTS) will sit somewhere on the higher end of the sim-cade spectrum. Probably slightly higher than GTS, because PD always finds ways to slightly enhance realism without going all in on being a deep simulator.
For an experienced driver, I get what you mean. However, I would say that unless you have already learned to drive a real car on track, a number of things are not exactly intuitive in a realistic sim and in the real world.

A lot of them are around weight transfer at the limit. As an example, getting power on oversteer in a rwd car....intuition often tells the beginner to come off the throttle abruptly & completely, which is not recommended :)
 
I haven’t played Burnout, but you say you find in intuitive. Wouldn’t this suggest it’s actually more sim-cade than arcade physics-wise? I understand that Burnout and the ethos surrounding it are identified as arcade, but this shouldn’t distract from our focus on physics, which are where sim-cade definitions derive from.

In my experience it’s:

Simulation = Intuitive
Sim-cade = Intuitive with odd quirks
Arcade = Counter-intuitive

On the subject of physics I think it’s best to talk about intuition rather than difficulty, because the latter can be perceived in multiple ways.


Fair enough, but again I’d like to stress the point that arcade games with good physics are in fact sim-cade. After all, aren’t good physics all about mirroring our sense of realism? If there’s tangible realism, then there also a degree of simulation, hence sim-cade. I’m fully aware there’s no one size that fits all, but this is also why sim-cade covers such a wide spectrum on the scale of realism. I consider The Crew 2 to be pure arcade, because nothing about its physics feels realistic, much like the vintage racing games I mentioned previously.

And just to stay on topic, I believe GT7 physics (much like GTS) will sit somewhere on the higher end of the sim-cade spectrum. Probably slightly higher than GTS, because PD always finds ways to slightly enhance realism without going all in on being a deep simulator.
I always thought of it as what the devs are trying to do in their approach to the game

Simulation - Trying to simulate as many systems together to achieve realistic results
Sim-cade - Trying to achieve realistic results without running as many simulations and faking most systems
Arcade - Trying to achieve non-realistic results by design

And of course devs will have varying degrees of success in trying to achieve realism but games like the crew, nfs, dirt or fh I would say are just arcade because their principle game physics are more about whats fun than realistic. Which usually results in noticeably unrealistic handling/braking/acceleration.
 
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An AI thats scalable to be almost impossible to beat,(like basically every other sim out there) would be a great improvement for the series.
Sometimes I wonder what planet these guys are on.......seriously.
 
There is a contradiction that strike me about the tracks in GT.
I understand the need to include some old school GT tracks to appease the die-hard fan club of the previous games in the series but with Kaz expressed desire to get new young people interested in motor sport and cars the absolute emphasis should be on real world tracks.
And there's so many great ones yet to use. From Track Môn to Oulton Park to Brno to Montegi to Road Atlanta to Circuit de Charade.
Open people's eyes to the real thing and they will want to advocate preservation of them.
 
I switched to using right stick up as throttle and R2 as brake. Try it. :)
L1/R1 shifting.
Im playing with this settings GT1/GT2 and was playing GT5/GT6
I am unco and have never been able to get the hang of analog sticks.
 
There is a contradiction that strike me about the tracks in GT.
I understand the need to include some old school GT tracks to appease the die-hard fan club of the previous games in the series but with Kaz expressed desire to get new young people interested in motor sport and cars the absolute emphasis should be on real world tracks.
And there's so many great ones yet to use. From Track Môn to Oulton Park to Brno to Montegi to Road Atlanta to Circuit de Charade.
Open people's eyes to the real thing and they will want to advocate preservation of them.
Kaz has a weird idea of motorsports and getting people into cars
Engine swaps are a real thing with motorsports and in the car enthusiast community, yet Kaz hates this idea and doesn't allow it,

Also why are cars like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight in the game since these are not cars you would use in motorsports nor what car enthusiast unless they're using it for S&G or to really try something different but how many times have you seen a hybrid only lobby?
 
Kaz has a weird idea of motorsports and getting people into cars
Engine swaps are a real thing with motorsports and in the car enthusiast community, yet Kaz hates this idea and doesn't allow it,

Also why are cars like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight in the game since these are not cars you would use in motorsports nor what car enthusiast unless they're using it for S&G or to really try something different but how many times have you seen a hybrid only lobby?
This may all be real. But what does it have to do with tracks?

I am loosing faith in GT7. It's looking to be what GTS would have been with a little more updates +a tacked on single player part that I personally couldn't care less about.

Unfortunately there's no real competition out there.
 
This may all be real. But what does it have to do with tracks?

I am loosing faith in GT7. It's looking to be what GTS would have been with a little more updates +a tacked on single player part that I personally couldn't care less about.

Unfortunately there's no real competition out there.
If Kaz wants to focus on "real" yet ignores other real aspects it removes the fun.
Plus what about the GTS original tracks like Dragon Trail.
It looks fun, so I would love to see all classic tracks.
 
There is a contradiction that strike me about the tracks in GT.
I understand the need to include some old school GT tracks to appease the die-hard fan club of the previous games in the series but with Kaz expressed desire to get new young people interested in motor sport and cars the absolute emphasis should be on real world tracks.
And there's so many great ones yet to use. From Track Môn to Oulton Park to Brno to Montegi to Road Atlanta to Circuit de Charade.
Open people's eyes to the real thing and they will want to advocate preservation of them.
That’s what got me into Formula One When I was younger. All these different tracks at different parts of the planet. Places I never heard of. I’m from NY and when I heard of Watkins Glen, as a little kid, I thought it was in California. :lol:
Seriously, it’s a good point to have real world tracks. New players might not have known some of those tracks are in their backyard.
 
I haven’t played Burnout, but you say you find in intuitive. Wouldn’t this suggest it’s actually more sim-cade than arcade physics-wise? I understand that Burnout and the ethos surrounding it are identified as arcade, but this shouldn’t distract from our focus on physics, which are where sim-cade definitions derive from.
Burnout is very much arcade, not simcade. Ultimately all driving/racing games have some simulation aspect, you accellerate, brake, steer left/right, have gears etc. Grip levels and so on. So there's always some basis of reality that they start from. But take Burnout as an example, in that game you chain drifts, near misses and so on to create boost and you chain boosts by doing those things while boosting. It's not a very realisitic game at all once you go beyond the "this is a car and it accellerates and brakes and steers etc."
In my experience it’s:

Simulation = Intuitive
Sim-cade = Intuitive with odd quirks
Arcade = Counter-intuitive
This is where I tink it's individual specific, a person whith little to no experience of how a real car behaves, let alone when driving close to the limit could well find a simulation the least intuitive to play.
Fair enough, but again I’d like to stress the point that arcade games with good physics are in fact sim-cade. After all, aren’t good physics all about mirroring our sense of realism? If there’s tangible realism, then there also a degree of simulation, hence sim-cade. I’m fully aware there’s no one size that fits all, but this is also why sim-cade covers such a wide spectrum on the scale of realism. I consider The Crew 2 to be pure arcade, because nothing about its physics feels realistic, much like the vintage racing games I mentioned previously.
I don't really agree with that, the original Ridge Racer was nowhere near a sim, it's the absolute definition of an arcade racer, but it's not difficult to pick up and play. When I play a game like Burnout or Ridge Racer, I don't load it up expecting the same degree of realism I expect when I load Forza, RFactor, Gran Turismo etc. So I expect to be able to hammer the throttle, power into drift after drift and flick the car one way and another without massively losing contol, and in Burnout it just works exactley as I expect it to, because I'm not expecting to exceed the grip levels and enter an uncontrolable spin or trying to take corners slow in fast out etc.

I'm not saying you're personally wrong to experience the games the way you describe, I'm just saying a lot of it will come down to individual preference, experience and expectation. You can argue that some arcade games have enough elements of sim about them to make them intuitive or easy to pick up, but that's a rabbit hole. They certainly aren't more realistic than a number of a simulations that I find harder because they are a more realistic overall but get some fundamental things wrong. So clearly my personal experience, preference and expectation doesn't agree with yours, ergo it's not the same for everyone.

I do think GT7 will likely be more realistic and better than GT Sport, and I agree it won't ramp up the realism significantly. It'll occupy it's usualy place in the genre where it's realistic enough for most, accessible and easy to play with a gamepad.
 
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If Kaz wants to focus on "real" yet ignores other real aspects it removes the fun.
Plus what about the GTS original tracks like Dragon Trail.
It looks fun, so I would love to see all classic tracks.
Oh, I don't mind them bringing back the original tracks, even if I think it's a high risk move, I just want more real life tracks. Alongside if possible.
But if I had to choose I would pick IRL tracks every time.
 
In my experience realistic physics are the most intuitive to pick up and play.
Purely from a physics perspective, Assetto Corsa is the easiest driving game I have played when it comes to adaption. The factors that made it inaccessible to many was poor gamepad optimization and hardcore elements that most casual players cannot be bothered to worry about (tire temperatures, surface rubber amounts and such).

GT Sport comes close, but in some areas it is dumbed down, and as you said, dumbed down aspects of physics can catch players subtly off guard if they expect more realistic behavior. It’s the nature of sim-cade, but I don’t consider this to be an overly decisive issue for the learning curve or enjoyment.

Absolute arcade physics, however, is something I have never felt comfortable with out of the box. The only way to improve your skillset, is to adapt drastically to their flawed physics, and even then it’s like the brain still cannot grasp how unnatural it feels. If an arcade game plays intuitively out of the box, then it’s probably because it can be labelled as sim-cade, which I’d say is a very scalable category in between simulation and arcade, and where the majority of today’s mainstream racing games reside. I’d argue arcade has gradually more become a relic synonymous with the the old days of Commodore, Sega and MS-DOS. Pre-historic racing games like Outrun, Lotus, Test Drive, F1 Grand Prix, etc. were really difficult to master, and much of the trouble came down to nonexistent simulation. The Crew 2 is modern example of pure arcade that is constantly at odds with intuition, and effectively why I find it harder to drive than Assetto Corsa.
Agree, realistic physics are not easier than arcade physics though, if they were then kids would be playing sims insead. They just dont make sense to people who are expecting realism and that's why I'm not keen on non sim physics. Kids dont have real life driving experience to be thrown off by the likes of GTS, It's hard for me to get on with GTS, It feels like it doesn't make sense as a sim or an arcade game. Wreckfest however no problem whatsoever. Theres something just off with GT physics for me.
 
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Oh, I don't mind them bringing back the original tracks, even if I think it's a high risk move, I just want more real life tracks. Alongside if possible.
But if I had to choose I would pick IRL tracks every time.
I am going to go out on a limb and hope for the best that more real tracks will come with time. But then again, I wonder how long it takes for them to make a track. I would think the easiest thing to do would be to buy the laser scan and then outsource all the beyond the track photography to an external team but would they be willing to do that, I wonder?
 
If that map showing the European circuits is final and they're not hiding anything for later reveals then I still can't believe we're going to get a new GT game without a single new European track.

So many to choose from, and we get absolutely zip, either real or fictional? Seems unthinkable. Yes they can add more with DLC yada yada, but to have none at launch is still bizarre. Every GT game since 4 had added new European tracks (as well as everywhere else).
 
I have played all the main line gran turismo games and I'm usually a big supporter for PD, but I must say GT7 so far has been a major disappointment for me. Are you serious PD? You concentrated most of your effort on polishing up old content from Sport rather than creating new cars and tracks. You might as well call "GT7" GT Sport Remake. Only 420 cars at launch and nearly 340 from Sport and only 4 new tracks more or less? So you're telling me in 9+ years all you could muster up are 90+ track variations and 420+ cars for two games? This is ridiculous!

For the first time in my life I'm seriously considering not purchasing this product at launch because it is not worth $70 or even $35.00 at launch and it certainly does not justify buying a $500.00 console. I understand it takes a lot of effort to develop the content but your approach was wrong IMO. Why didn't you focus on new to the series cars and tracks first then focus on bringing Sport content as free DLC rather than introducing them vice versa? Not to mention this doesn't even look next gen when you said are you ready for next gen. The Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo set the bar for what this console is capable of doing and GT7 looks like a slightly better PS4 game. Just having it on the PS4 is proof of that.

Might as well take away the "present" from the past, present, future slogan BS. I'm willing to bet we won't even see more than 10 cars from the 50+ cars yet to be revealed newer than 2018 models not counting Vision GT's. Seriously PD you need to change your ways for GT8 or you're going to be losing your most faithful fans because at this point you're starting to look more like Madden recycling old material just to justify spending $70.00 for your product!

Another major issue is the communication with your fan base. I understand there is a language barrier but would it kill you to reveal there is DLC with more cars and tracks coming rather than holding it close to your chest because your secretive ways are tempting your fans to go elsewhere because the competitor offers more of what they want which are newer and older cars at the same time as well as the most current tracks.
69 dollar console games
 
I have no problem with the car list count. However, the track list is 80% GTSport and I dont like many tracks in this game like Alsace, Sainte-Croix, Broad Bean... playing Deep Forest or Grand Valley again and again wasn't a problem for me.
Not sure to buy GT7 day one, maybe I'll wait interviews about the future DLCs.
 
I have no problem with the car list count. However, the track list is 80% GTSport and I dont like many tracks in this game like Alsace, Sainte-Croix, Broad Bean... playing Deep Forest or Grand Valley again and again wasn't a problem for me.
Not sure to buy GT7 day one, maybe I'll wait interviews about the future DLCs.
I'm also afraid of this, full single player campaign is a great addition, but I have a feeling that after an hour I will get tired of the same looking tracks again and again. :( And I'm rather skeptical that they will add more circuits as a dlc.
 
You should attempt a full sentence. Absolutely no idea what you're attempting to touch on here.
This is what happens when you're 15 years old. Too much time spent talking in memes on Discord servers rots your brain.
Another major issue is the communication with your fan base. I understand there is a language barrier but would it kill you to reveal there is DLC with more cars and tracks coming rather than holding it close to your chest because your secretive ways are tempting your fans to go elsewhere because the competitor offers more of what they want which are newer and older cars at the same time as well as the most current tracks.
The best part about this is that this isn't a language barrier issue in the slightest. FFXIV is one of the most popular games around, and the developers of that game have absolutely no problem communicating patch notes and new content to fans in video events. They're not done live, of course, and they're translated, but it's being done. Hell, most Japanese developers are making attempts to talk to fans in public ways (Yoko Taro, the one guy who heads up Tekken who's name escapes me are good examples)

This is simply an issue of Kaz being so out of touch with modern video games that he seriously believes that posting silhouettes of upcoming cars only through him is somehow a good strategy on getting new content out there. It's utterly embarrassing. And I doubt it will change, even if someone within Polyphony put the bug in his ear that something needs to change.
 
Another major issue is the communication with your fan base. I understand there is a language barrier but would it kill you to reveal there is DLC with more cars and tracks coming rather than holding it close to your chest because your secretive ways are tempting your fans to go elsewhere because the competitor offers more of what they want which are newer and older cars at the same time as well as the most current tracks.
DLC cars and tracks was confirmed in the eurogamer interview.


"Gran Turismo Sport provided the foundations for the last generation of the series on PS4, and was something you built upon. In a similar way, is GT7 going to be the foundation for this next generation, and how do you intend to build upon it?

Kazunori Yamauchi:
You're absolutely right in saying that GT7 will be something that will progress based on the progression of the PS5 platform. What we will obviously do is add more tracks and more cars as we go along as well. But in terms of the features, there are still some features that we've had in the past titles that still haven't made a comeback yet. That's something that we would like to do. And we also have other ideas on top of that, as well, but it's still too early to start talking about that yet."
 
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Oh, I don't mind them bringing back the original tracks, even if I think it's a high risk move, I just want more real life tracks. Alongside if possible.
But if I had to choose I would pick IRL tracks every time.
I think GT is not just for you. GT allways had original circuits, even original cars like Gr category.

I respect your opinion, but I do not understand that obsession to change to something that does not pretend to be.

Stop having faith. Just play asseto, asseto competzione, iRacing, PC, Forza, raceroom, Rfactor.

There are a lot of options.
 
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DLC cars and tracks was confirmed in the eurogamer interview.


"Gran Turismo Sport provided the foundations for the last generation of the series on PS4, and was something you built upon. In a similar way, is GT7 going to be the foundation for this next generation, and how do you intend to build upon it?

Kazunori Yamauchi:
You're absolutely right in saying that GT7 will be something that will progress based on the progression of the PS5 platform. What we will obviously do is add more tracks and more cars as we go along as well. But in terms of the features, there are still some features that we've had in the past titles that still haven't made a comeback yet. That's something that we would like to do. And we also have other ideas on top of that, as well, but it's still too early to start talking about that yet."
Speaking of adding tracks, there is a treasure trove of possibilities. I've been on a nostalgia trip lately playing GT2 and GT4 and I've come to the conclusion that, in my opinion, both games are equally at the top of the totem pole but for different reasons. When it comes to tracks, GT4 is king. While real-world circuits were lacking, the original circuits were spectacular, especially the rally and city courses. Oh my god the city courses. They were gorgeous, full of character, and super challenging. The rally-oriented courses like Costa di Amalfi and Citta di Aria honestly would make for terrible online racing but I would love for them to return in the main game. And I imagine PD already has the data they need to do it - they gathered all their photography and data on-sight at the time and while it may be fifteen years old it's probably high enough fidelity to create something special.

The rally courses especially need an overhaul. GT4's rally courses were fairly revolutionary for GT, feeling like actual rally courses, skinny, slow speed corners, crowd all around, spectacular scenery. GTS's rally courses went back to the GT2 style of wide and monotonous roads with super fast corners, just miserable. Great for online racing I suppose but it's just bumpercars which is lame. Bring back the legit rally courses from GT4, including the asphalt city courses.

But don't bring back GT4's physics, oh my god. The content was spectacular but the game drove like garbage, so bad that I can't even gold all the B-licenses tests and I'm nearly an A-rated gamepad driver on GTS. Who was it in another thread that mentioned accurate and consistent physics are actually easier to drive than arcade stuff? GT4 is a prime example of that. Even GT2's physics are somehow more logical and accessible, even if the control scheme itself doesn't really allow for good use of skill.

Edit: I just want to reiterate that I never should've played GT4 again. Wow, what a horrible experience lmao. So many of the cars are basically impossible to drive, I have no idea how I did this at 16 years old. I must've been a wizard. And the gamepad optimization - at least with PS4 joysticks - is ridiculously bad.

Still don't think the overall home map is final, maybe some tracks don't show until there unlocked.
Honestly I thought the 2020 home screen, the black one with glowing icons, looked more "finished" than the new city builder menu. I think I would prefer the 2020 version because it's more in line with GT2 and 4.

PlayStation-5-GT7-campaign.jpg


I love this. The idea of hanging out in a big city doing car stuff at night is literally what I've done and is part of the car culture we see in Japan.
 
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Yeah, that home screen above, got me hyped for GT4 vibes. With an option of: "Would you like to drive to (insert destination)?" or skip or use the arrow, whatever. Much better to look at comparing the two on my tv.

However, we'll see if those planes and boats move while visiting the home screen.
 
If that map showing the European circuits is final and they're not hiding anything for later reveals then I still can't believe we're going to get a new GT game without a single new European track.

So many to choose from, and we get absolutely zip, either real or fictional? Seems unthinkable. Yes they can add more with DLC yada yada, but to have none at launch is still bizarre. Every GT game since 4 had added new European tracks (as well as everywhere else).
In the trailer, during the livery customization, they briefly show the logo from Adria Raceway. This could(*) mean that Adria is in the game and that track map menu is only a WIP, but who knows. It has hosted FIA GT, DTM and is in the 2021 WTCR calendar. If it happens, I wonder if the layout will be the newer, longer version of the track, that was redesigned this year.


adria.png
 
I think GT is not just for you. GT allways had original circuits, even original cars like Gr category.

I respect your opinion, but I do not understand that obsession to change to something that does not pretend to be.

Stop having faith. Just play asseto, asseto competzione, iRacing, PC, Forza, raceroom, Rfactor.

There are a lot of options.
You are perhaps right in GT not being for me.
GT sport is my favourite game and I spent an unhealthy amount of hours in it. I love everything about it with a slight exception of dirty drivers.

But the single.player part is not for me, so the traditional GT series probably isn't for me.
I fear a lot of people have been conditioned to the same, and will be disappointed when GT7 doesn't feel the way the old games did to them.
But I am sure the masses will love it.

Edit: what do you mean "stop tryin to make it into something it isn't".
There's many real world tracks in GTS and they are ALLL going to be in GT7. So how is wishing for more real world locations trying to make GT into something it isn't?
 
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In the trailer, during the livery customization, they briefly show the logo from Adria Raceway. This could(*) mean that Adria is in the game and that track map menu is only a WIP, but who knows. It has hosted FIA GT, DTM and is in the 2021 WTCR calendar. If it happens, I wonder if the layout will be the newer, longer version of the track, that was redesigned this year.


View attachment 1082175
It could also mean that, since the livery editor was creating the Emil Frey Lamborghini out of a Lamborghini GT3, it's only there because the decal appears on the real car...

1632409150295.png
 
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