Motor City Tunes GT6

[Motor City Hami]

Michael Delaney (character played by Steve McQueen in Le Mans): "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

 

[Motor City Hami]

I played a little GT6 last night. And after being in the real world Spec Miata over the last three weeks, GT6 reminded me of the frustrations that I have with tuning in the game. At MIS this past weekend, in my first practice run, my car was very loose mid-corner. I was able to move the rear sway bar mount from the hardest position to the medium position and it totally calmed the car down to a slightly loose, but drive-able state.

Back to GT6, I was racing a Miata at Laguna Seca. The car was tight so I dropped the front bar and increased the rear and very little happened. I went to minimum front bar and maximum rear bar and again, very little happened. Tuning should not be such a guessing game to find the one setting that is keeping the car from handling well. It should be more intuitive than it is. It just left me thinking, not "The Real Driving Simulator" but instead, "The Unrealistic Driving Simulator."

 

[Pete05]

I played a little GT6 last night. And after being in the real world Spec Miata over the last three weeks, GT6 reminded me of the frustrations that I have with tuning in the game. At MIS this past weekend, in my first practice run, my car was very loose mid-corner. I was able to move the rear sway bar mount from the hardest position to the medium position and it totally calmed the car down to a slightly loose, but drive-able state.

Back to GT6, I was racing a Miata at Laguna Seca. The car was tight so I dropped the front bar and increased the rear and very little happened. I went to minimum front bar and maximum rear bar and again, very little happened. Tuning should not be such a guessing game to find the one setting that is keeping the car from handling well. It should be more intuitive than it is. It just left me thinking, not "The Real Driving Simulator" but instead, "The Unrealistic Driving Simulator."

I couldn't agree with you more Hami. Especially when PD can't even get close to giving us cars with real life specs. I'll remember for the rest of my Gran Turismo days what you said a while ago about the Mustang Boss 302 & how it isn't even close. On top of that, for you to try everything you know about tuning to try and get it to replicate real life and for it to still be way off has really burnt a hole in my expectations of the efforts coming out of PD HQ. I'm wondering just how much they care

 

[killerjimbag]

Yes I can't agree more. At least PCars is pretty close. Way better feel when you adjust the car.

 

[speedy turtle]

Hi Mr. Hami. I've been reading your tuning guide and it is amazing. I'm learning very much, I'm discovering plenty of new things that I've never imagined... sorry about mi ignorance, but I'm a rookie in mechanics. And, of course, I have many questions about the subject.

I need to find time to practice... but you know: the master is the master, and two answers from him can help to take advantage on practices.

I'm trying to adapt your BMW M4 550pp to the current (till tomorrow Aug, 27th) Seasonal Race on Indianapolis 500pp. I've got a very "flat" car, I'm not exceding tyre grip... but I have problems in the "S" curve on the middle of the track.

I take that two curves, first right, second left, in 1st gear and nothing works, tires slip, they glow to red, the car oversteer and I lose all the time I gain till that sector.

What can I do?, could you advise me?

Thank you very much.


Best regards,
Henry

 

[Motor City Hami]

And, of course, I have many questions about the subject.

Questions are always welcome. Opinions are always welcome.

Much of tuning is making a car fit to your driving style. Please add more information about the condition. Which tires glow red in the first two curves? On throttle or off? Where in the corner, on entry, mid-corner or exit? With more info, maybe I can help.

 

[killerjimbag]

Hammi just bought DLC for PCars, wow,now that's more like it.
Just tuned the 66 Mustang,yep feels real to me. My best friend had one growing up,incredible feeling, scary actually. You'll love this game.

 

[Goetz]

Thanks for the Ford Focus ST 13 tune - I just won the American Muscle Challenge at Midfield. Read all about it in the seasonal thread. Great tune!

 

[speedy turtle]

Hi Mr. Hami:

I've found this photo, I have problems to ride turns T9 and T10. Excuse me it's not an "S" curve, it is a "Z" curve :

On the rest of the circuit the car goes well, I think I'm fast, the tires are always "white" or yellow to light orange on all curves. I feel the weight transfer is working well and that "light orange" travel from front outside tire to rear outside tire... I think it is ok for a rookie. But:

- On the trail braking zone on T9, I think I'm braking well. But I need to speed down to 50kph (30mph, more or less) and my front left tire turn orange, maybe 1st gear is not well tuned.
- When I try to throttle progressively (more or less becuase I play with a DS3, I don't have steering wheel) between the apex to exit, my tires (all of them) begin to slip, go to dark red and I have to release throttle, push it again, release it again, ... on the short line between T9 and T10. I feel the cars slides, oversteers... it seems a burning marble float on ice.
- On the trail braking zone on T10 I brake again, front outside tire goes to red.
- And finally, if I push hard the throttle to exit turn T10, all the tires go to red, not only front to rear outside tires, the tires slide again, burn, smoke, and I have to release throttle, push it again, release it again, till they grip. Maybe 1st gear again.

Excuse my Troya war description

I don't know if you need more tune information. I don't know if it is "polite" to include numbers in this thread; like I said yesterday I'm trying to adapt your BMW M4 550pp to this 500pp event, I know I'm far from the ideal tune for this car on this track... and all other. But I don't know if I'm on the right path to improve my skills...

Thank you very much for your help and your time


Best regards,
Henry

 

[speedy turtle]

Hi Hami:

One more thing. I'm reading your tune guide and I have a question about tires load from weight transfer.

On the second stage (Trail braking), condition one (Glowing red front tires under braking). I don't understand the solution (Option):

"Reduce rear shock extension (lower number) and/or reduce front shock compression (lower number). This should speed up the transfer of weight to the front wheels and provide more front grip under braking".

I was thinking in this case the glowing red front tires (or outside tire) it was due to the transfer of weight to the front wheels. Then I don't understand why the solution is "speed up the transfer to the front wheels".

On condition two (Loose condition under braking). Excuse me but I don't be able to translate it with sense; I translate literally and I don't know if its meaning is simply: "oversteer" and can't prevent the rear wheels overtake the front wheels.


Thank you Hami, have a nice day,
Henry

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hi Mr. Hami:

I've found this photo, I have problems to ride turns T9 and T10. Excuse me it's not an "S" curve, it is a "Z" curve :

- On the trail braking zone on T9, I think I'm braking well. But I need to speed down to 50kph (30mph, more or less) and my front left tire turn orange, maybe 1st gear is not well tuned.
- When I try to throttle progressively (more or less becuase I play with a DS3, I don't have steering wheel) between the apex to exit, my tires (all of them) begin to slip, go to dark red and I have to release throttle, push it again, release it again, ... on the short line between T9 and T10. I feel the cars slides, oversteers... it seems a burning marble float on ice.
- On the trail braking zone on T10 I brake again, front outside tire goes to red.
- And finally, if I push hard the throttle to exit turn T10, all the tires go to red, not only front to rear outside tires, the tires slide again, burn, smoke, and I have to release throttle, push it again, release it again, till they grip. Maybe 1st gear again.

The conditions that you describe seem to be the same for T9 and T10.
1. Outside front tire turning orange in mid-corner is ok condition in GT6; very fast. Red and smoking would be an issue.
2. All red tires on exit of T9 and T10, I think you are attempting to carry too much throttle on exit. I think you are getting back to throttle too early in the corner. T9 and the transition to T10 is a very slow corner. All red tires there and all red tires on exit to T10 indicates that the whole car is sliding.

Have you tried these on your DS3? http://www.kontrolfreek.com/ldr/fps...V-eQpz78Ukh1Wj65G2HNpirtC4nvv-fAEIaAnsG8P8HAQ I highly recommend these for the DS3. They will smooth out your throttle inputs so that you can slowly add throttle, just like you can with pedals. I am almost as fast with the DS3 as I am with the wheel.

 

[speedy turtle]

Thank you very much, I'll try that solution.

Sorry to insist, but I like to learn and one way to learn is asking. I hope no bother you, I would like to clarify the doubt on #970.

Thank you for your time and patience.


Best regards, have a nice weekend,
Henry

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hi Hami:

One more thing. I'm reading your tune guide and I have a question about tires load from weight transfer.

On the second stage (Trail braking), condition one (Glowing red front tires under braking). I don't understand the solution (Option):

"Reduce rear shock extension (lower number) and/or reduce front shock compression (lower number). This should speed up the transfer of weight to the front wheels and provide more front grip under braking".

I was thinking in this case the glowing red front tires (or outside tire) it was due to the transfer of weight to the front wheels. Then I don't understand why the solution is "speed up the transfer to the front wheels".

In the braking zone, when I have red front tires, it is usually both red front tires. In this case, the weight transfer is very important. If the visual of the front shows no movement down and the rear shows no movement up, then small amount of enough weight transferred and the front red tires are skidding. In this case, "Reduce rear shock extension (lower number) and/or reduce front shock compression (lower number). This should speed up the transfer of weight to the front wheels and provide more front grip under braking".

If the visual movement of the car is opposite, front moves down quickly and rear raises during braking and both red front tires exist, the opposite is needed. Weight transfer needs to be slowed in this condition because the front tires have too much load and are beyond their available grip. "Increase rear shock extension (higher number) and/or increase front shock compression (higher number). This should slow down the transfer of weight to the front wheels and provide more front grip under braking".

The situation that you described, having only the outside red front tire, I think is more of a condition at late corner entry. I have provided this advice for these conditions.

Late corner entry can be difficult to diagnose while driving in GT6. You may need to watch a replay instead of trying to see what the tire indicators are doing while on a hot lap. There is one condition that I see most often in GT6 at this point in the turn; a red, outside front tire.

GT6 Handling Tips:

Condition 1: Glowing red outside front tire in a medium to low speed corner

Options: Hypothesis is that the front tire is overloaded and past its maximum available grip. To fix this condition, test increasing front compression and increasing rear extension. A second option is to add ballast and move weight to the rear of the car.

Condition 2: Glowing red outside front tire in a medium to high speed corner

Options: Hypothesis is that the front tire does not have enough weight on it and it is just sliding across the pavement. To fix this condition, test decreasing front compression and decreasing rear extension. A second option is to add ballast and move weight to the front of the car.

On condition two (Loose condition under braking). Excuse me but I don't be able to translate it with sense; I translate literally and I don't know if its meaning is simply: "oversteer" and can't prevent the rear wheels overtake the front wheels.

Yes, loose condition means oversteer. The rear wheels try to overtake the front wheels. In NASCAR the teams use the terms loose (oversteer) and tight (understeer).

Also, no trouble with questions. I am always willing to discuss race car handling. If you find any conditions that work differently, please post them. I will always test.

 

[speedy turtle]

Thank you very much for your explanation. 👍

Now I understand the difference between the two conditions on second stage.

I'm going to experimentalise and use this concepts on the track.

I am anxious to know your new tunes


Have a nice week,
Henry

 

[speedy turtle]

Hi Mr. Hamilton:

I'm using your tune guide into my cars and I'm obtaining very good results. I have no much time and I'm progressing slowly but in the right direction. Thank you very much.

One question on another vein:

A month ago, I read a post where talked about the way to make an initial suspension tune. Sorry to that person but I can't remember who wrote that:


He talked about a formula that suggested taking the cars weight and then multiplying it by the Front/Rear weight distribution and then dividing by the Front/Rear ride height.
ie:
W = 1115
WD Front/Rear = 49/51
RH Front/Rear = 70/85
Front/Rear would be: ((1115*.49)/70) = 7.81 / ((1115*.51)/85) = 6.69

I don't remember an answer to that post. Do you think it is a good starting point to tune the suspensions? It's very difficult to me to know when I must start with a higher springs front or rear...


Thank you very much.

Have a nice and productive weekend,
Henry

 

[Motor City Hami]

A month ago, I read a post where talked about the way to make an initial suspension tune. Sorry to that person but I can't remember who wrote that:


He talked about a formula that suggested taking the cars weight and then multiplying it by the Front/Rear weight distribution and then dividing by the Front/Rear ride height.
ie:
W = 1115
WD Front/Rear = 49/51
RH Front/Rear = 70/85
Front/Rear would be: ((1115*.49)/70) = 7.81 / ((1115*.51)/85) = 6.69

I don't remember an answer to that post. Do you think it is a good starting point to tune the suspensions? It's very difficult to me to know when I must start with a higher springs front or rear...


Thank you very much.

Have a nice and productive weekend,
Henry

I don't use anything that scientific but do find it interesting. Maybe it was @Voodoovaj with his Tunes from the Wizzard thread? https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/tunes-from-the-wizard-now-with-my-cheating-111r.300509/

 

[speedy turtle]

No. I read it on the Mr. Praiano ancient GTPlanet thread. But, I don't know why, that post had no response.

My respects to Mr. Praiano.

Nowadays it's difficult to me use your tunes and Mr. P ones yet. Thus I ask you about your guide, to try to make my own tunes and learn, not only copy.

I have much to learn yet. Now I'm trying to minimize the use of aids. I'm using TCS 0 and ASM active. But I don't know if it'll be better TCS 1 and ASM off.

When I drive a FR it is impossible to drive smoothly on the corners. I always loose condition and finally end up skidding.

No matter, I need to practice, practice and more practice, and little by little improve my skills.

Thank you for your time.

Henry

 

[Motor City Hami]

West Surrey Racing, 1983 Ayrton Senna

PP: 559
HP: 172 HP
TORQUE: 167
WEIGHT:455 kg
WEIGHT DIST: 46:54
TIRE(S): Racing Hard Tires

GT Auto:
Oil Change - yes

SUSPENSION: Full Custom // Brakes:
RIDE HEIGHT - 40/40
SPRINGS - 16.50/21.00
COMP - 3/4
EXT - 8/5
ARB - 4/4
CAMBER - 0.0/0.4
TOE - +0.12/+0.06
BRAKES - 5/6

TRANS: Full Custom (install all power upgrades first!)
FINAL TO - 2500
TOP SPEED TO - 124
1ST - 4.565
2ND - 3.085
3RD - 2.305
4TH - 1.835
5TH - 1.550
FINAL - 2.050

LSD: Full Custom
INITIAL - 10
ACCEL - 9
DECEL - 15

CLUTCH TYPE: standard
CARBON SHAFT: standard

POWER PARTS:
ENGINE TUNING - standard
COMPUTER - standard
EXHAUST - Racing Exhaust
MANIFOLD - standard
CATALYTIC CONVERTER - standard
INTAKE TUNING - standard
SUPERCHARGER/TURBO - na
POWER LIMITER - 100

WEIGHT REDUCTION - standard
CARBON HOOD - standard
WINDOW WEIGHT - standard

BALLAST - 0/0
DOWNFORCE -
Front 800
Rear 950

DRIVER NOTES:
Have some balls and pick up the throttle well before clipping the apex!

 

[Eralam]

Hami this tune for tarmac or dirt?

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hami this tune for tarmac or dirt?

Sorry, which tune? The quoted bit did not show.

 

[Pete05]

G'day Hami,
Following your last race meeting, you mentioned you were thinking of upgrading to more enthusiasm under the hood for better straightline handling. I'm just wondering if there's a chance of it happening this year or if it's a nice surprise for the other Spec Miata guys next season?

 

[Motor City Hami]

G'day Hami,
Following your last race meeting, you mentioned you were thinking of upgrading to more enthusiasm under the hood for better straightline handling. I'm just wondering if there's a chance of it happening this year or if it's a nice surprise for the other Spec Miata guys next season?

I won't race next season without an engine built to the rules specs. My driving skill combined with the crate motor puts me in a pack of racers with less skill than me and more power. Thus the cause of my two crashes this year. I will not run in that part of the pack again. It's not safe and replacing body panels and suspension bits is proving just as costly as an engine. Next season should be a bit more fun.

 

[Pete05]

I won't race next season without an engine built to the rules specs. My driving skill combined with the crate motor puts me in a pack of racers with less skill than me and more power. Thus the cause of my two crashes this year. I will not run in that part of the pack again. It's not safe and replacing body panels and suspension bit is proving just as costly as en engine. Next season should be a bit more fun.

I don't blame you for that one little bit. If you lie down with the dogs, you end up getting fleas

 

[Motor City Hami]

2015 was a tough season.

 

[Pete05]

2015 was a tough season.

A lot tougher than it had to be that's for sure.
In that 4th pic it looks like chunks of the tyre sidewall have been ripped out
Here's hoping that with a little more enthusiasm under your right foot, you leave all the squabbling amateurs in need of a talent injection to fight amongst themselves. Roll on 2016

 

[MCFerocious]

Great section of the site, this.

Can someone please send me a link for a very good tuning guide that I can print off? Does Hami have one? I'd be most grateful !!

Thank you

MC

 

[DaBomm4]

This is the thread for @Motor City Hami's tuning guide.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt6-tuning-guide-1-15.319562/

Edit: To print off, I suggest copying to a word document.

 

[MCFerocious]

Very kind of you m8, thanks!

 

[Motor City Hami]

Very kind of you m8, thanks!

Guess I could make a pdf version for download.

 

[DaBomm4]

Guess I could make a pdf version for download.

I did this for myself so I could have a quicker reference when I need it.