Motorcycles in GT6?

[buickgnx88]

People are saying how if PD does a sequel to TT, then that will take time out of work on GT6. Well, why not do like T10 did with Forza Horizon and hire an outside studio to assist in the design work. Kaz could oversee the work to make sure it's to his standards, but at the same time he could also be spending more time on GT6.

 

[Samus]

People are saying how if PD does a sequel to TT, then that will take time out of work on GT6. Well, why not do like T10 did with Forza Horizon and hire an outside studio to assist in the design work. Kaz could oversee the work to make sure it's to his standards, but at the same time he could also be spending more time on GT6.

Because PD seem stubborn to outside help in any way. They didn't do it with GTSP when they should have and they refuse to outsource any work on car and track modelling.

 

[Griffith500]

What do you mean PD "should have" outsourced GTPSP? Did you commission it? Was it a condition imposed by Sony?
I think you rather mean something like "I'd have preferred it had" PD outsourced it. Regardless, I'm sure PD gained a lot from the experience overall.

This idea that "outsourcing" will magically speed up production with no ill effects is typical of the shallow view people take of software development. If it's got GT on the box, I can respect PD wanting to do it themselves - that includes any negative impact that poor production might have. GT's reputation is PD's reputation, and I think it's a good thing that it might stay that way. Unlike, say, Criterion / EA using the NFS name to further the Burnout series (whilst relinquishing the historical NFS turf to the prowling Forza series), or even Treyarch vs. Infinity Ward.

 

[Exorcet]

This idea that "outsourcing" will magically speed up production with no ill effects is typical of the shallow view people take of software development. If it's got GT on the box, I can respect PD wanting to do it themselves - that includes any negative impact that poor production might have.

As with most things, there is probably a minimum/maximum in the function somewhere.

I don't think that min/max is at the point where PD does it all themselves. Their cars take too long to model, and so do the tracks. They need some help if they want to pump out more content. If they want to offset the cost, sell more DLC. If they did outsource, perhaps they could output Forza levels of DLC that everyone seems to want and gain a little more profit.

 

[Griffith500]

The optimum is probably to have a syndicate of developers, but that should (kind of) already be what being first-party means. Just outsourcing to whoever isn't going to work, and it'd need front-loading (lots of set-up) as part of a larger project and not just justified with the promise of "DLC offset". In other words, it was never going to be something they simply tagged on once they realised the cars (etc.) take as long as they do. A whole game is a both easier (it's a self-contained project) and harder (it's a complete product, not just a component) to give up to somebody else, and I still respect PD's decision not to outsource GTPSP.

The fact that PD have expanded probably means they've recognised their "throughput issue", let's see what that's done for them.

 

[BongRipz]

People are saying how if PD does a sequel to TT, then that will take time out of work on GT6. Well, why not do like T10 did with Forza Horizon and hire an outside studio to assist in the design work. Kaz could oversee the work to make sure it's to his standards, but at the same time he could also be spending more time on GT6.

The reality is PD would probably release GT6 first and then do TT2 like they did with GT4 and TT1.

 

[Samus]

What do you mean PD "should have" outsourced GTPSP? Did you commission it? Was it a condition imposed by Sony?
I think you rather mean something like "I'd have preferred it had" PD outsourced it. Regardless, I'm sure PD gained a lot from the experience overall.

The game took far too long to develop for what turned out to be a very shallow experience, gameplay wise. Obviously it's only my opinion but yes, I think they should have outsourced that. I mean how could they have gone wrong, PD would provide the tracks and the models and backend code, the other dev would just have to put it all together in a PSP game with PD constantly looking over them and helping in small doses.
[/QUOTE]

This idea that "outsourcing" will magically speed up production with no ill effects is typical of the shallow view people take of software development. If it's got GT on the box, I can respect PD wanting to do it themselves - that includes any negative impact that poor production might have. GT's reputation is PD's reputation, and I think it's a good thing that it might stay that way. Unlike, say, Criterion / EA using the NFS name to further the Burnout series (whilst relinquishing the historical NFS turf to the prowling Forza series), or even Treyarch vs. Infinity Ward.

Of course outsourcing doesn't guarantee speed or equal quality production but as I said above with this particular game I don't see how they could have gone wrong. PD could have even asked a studio to build them a "demo" to show off their talents. Say, "Here are 10 PS2 models, here is a track, here is all the backend code, come back to us in two months and let's see what you've done". That's obviously a very simple breakdown but I have no doubt that there are studios out there who could have done that game to PD standards, certainly no worse than what PD themselves did and that would have left PD free to focus on the PS3 game.

Outsourcing can be bad, it can be good but you'll never know until you give it a try. Let someone model a car for you, see how it turns out. I mean SMS do this with Project CARS in a sense. Yes they're all part of the same team but they aren't all working together in the same office, modellers are dotted all around Europe working alone on models to the standards set out by SMS and the results are great, all models look excellent and equal despite being made around Europe.

 

[Griffith500]

Well, I don't think GTPSP was as simple to develop as you seem to be making it out to be.

Also, what pCARS is doing is closer to what I (perhaps still erroneously) call "syndicate" - everyone's reading from the same page, and it's all very heavily communicated, constantly, so that things can change rapidly as needed. Typical outsourcing is contract-based, it's practically fixed, "fire and forget", because that's the main advantage - you get the work done without having to administer it. For anything else you may as well just grow your own team (which is effectively what WMD is.).

 

[Samus]

I didn't mean it was simple to develop code wise, I know very well that "converting" everything to run on the PSP at 60fps was a lot of work, what I meant was that given all of the source material from GT4 another developer would have to be monumentally bad at developing for the resulting game not to feel like a GT game. They would have the car models, the track models, the physics engine etc. It wouldn't have been easy to do but the result would always be a GT game.

 

[Griffith500]

There's also the controls, which are probably important. Plus if they need to pare down any of the code so it runs in a smaller footprint / faster, they know where to start without changing the feel of the game. And if they do change the feel, they'll know how to put it back by other means without too much extra dissection. That couldn't be said of any third party, who would have to consult PD, do it their own way, or try to reverse engineer it themselves. Given it's a mostly technical challenge, I think that pestering the technical staff over the best way to lean out the GT4 code for the PSP isn't much of an improvement over just letting said tech staff do it themselves, especially given how difficult it (reportedly) was in the end. The "quality" of the other two options depend on the contracted team, and because "porting" (GTPSP is arguably more of an "adaptation") is so hit and miss in the industry, I doubt it was worth the apparent risk.

As it happens, the physics were different from GT4 anyway, I think, but you can't guarantee it would have gone the way PD would have wanted it to should someone other than PD have been in charge.

 

[Fat Buff Guy]

I didnt take the time to go through everything, but, I opt for keeping them separate but it would be sweet if the games were compatible in online.

 

[MoLiEG]

GT6 with bikes? No

Tourist Trophy 2? Yes

 

[Brunet Paquet]

1. False

2. Irrelevant

Why shouldn't bikes be in the same game as cars?

More like... 1. True. I really think they shouldn't be put together. If you don't believe me,go check other car and bike sims. That's where i got this answer,as i almost always fell on bike griefers.

2. Relevant. The players would chase me down with their cars when i was on a bike,and they wouldn't let me go as long as they didn't get the truly irrevelant satisfaction of ramming me at least one time and running like the punks they are.

3. Annoying. I don't want to be hitting the floor because some bunch of fools rammed me down when i'm about to win,and that they literally steal that victory because of that.

 

[Ip46VR]

I don't want cars to be the main focus but just an addition car vs bike has always been pretty interesting every car show has had some segment about car vs bike

 

[another_jakhole]

crap - double post

 

[another_jakhole]

More like... 1. True. I really think they shouldn't be put together. If you don't believe me,go check other car and bike sims. That's where i got this answer,as i almost always fell on bike griefers.

2. Relevant. The players would chase me down with their cars when i was on a bike,and they wouldn't let me go as long as they didn't get the truly irrevelant satisfaction of ramming me at least one time and running like the punks they are.

3. Annoying. I don't want to be hitting the floor because some bunch of fools rammed me down when i'm about to win,and that they literally steal that victory because of that.

There's a workaround for everything. For one, don't you think MOST people/hosts will start using the Disable Collisions to prevent ramming motorcyclists? There are already enough people that don't take racing cars and bikes together seriously. Why take the races THAT seriously?

Of course, you can always do it the old way and friend request a bunch of honest people to keep from having bad races/online sessions like this.

PS Online in GT6 most likely won't be as frustrating. More options and stuff.

 

[Samus]

Disable collisions = not racing.

 

[Brunet Paquet]

There's a workaround for everything. For one, don't you think MOST people/hosts will start using the Disable Collisions to prevent ramming motorcyclists? There are already enough people that don't take racing cars and bikes together seriously. Why take the races THAT seriously?

Of course, you can always do it the old way and friend request a bunch of honest people to keep from having bad races/online sessions like this.

PS Online in GT6 most likely won't be as frustrating. More options and stuff.

Would be awesome if there was such an option available in racing sims.

Sadly when i race online i slow down when i try to overtake the others to try avoiding being in their way,because i'm very afraid i'd frustrate them,and have them come back ram me (which they often do in almost every sessions i played in any online game except GT5 which i am way too afraid to try out online),until i find the simply perfect opportunity which doesn't often come,if never in some races.

That's just me wishing for a sim where everyone can go around the track without these kinds of dangers. Correct me if i'm wrong. This option might be available without me knowing.

 

[Brunet Paquet]

Disable collisions = not racing.

I know right...lol it sounds unrealistic,but it avoids so much trouble in the overtaking progress.

Edit:"I know right...lol it IS unrealistic." and i managed to clumsy up and cause a double-post.

 

[another_jakhole]

You take it OFF collisions so there ISN'T any ramming. You race with collisions off so rammers don't ram you. You race with collisions off while respecting other racers. It's only there to prevent rammers. Terrible excuse guys.


Brunet Paquet, it's a feature. If you were joking, GT5 isn't iRacing, which means there isn't any real need (with us not needing to pay a monthly subscription for "real" sim racing, GT players are mainly casual gamers) to keep collisions on if you're wanting to prevent a bad experience with rammers. There's a perfect way to get rid of ramming, and it's being ignored.

I read the rest of your first post after typing this all out.

 

[Samus]

You take it OFF collisions so there ISN'T any ramming. You race with collisions off so rammers don't ram you. You race with collisions off while respecting other racers. It's only there to prevent rammers. Terrible excuse guys.

What is a terrible excuse? With no collisions you're not racing, it's just time trialing on the same track, like rallying.

 

[Griffith500]

Why is this even an issue?

 

[another_jakhole]

What is a terrible excuse? With no collisions you're not racing, it's just time trialing on the same track, like rallying.

Believe me, I know. It's racing.

 

[Brunet Paquet]

There's a perfect way to get rid of ramming, and it's being ignored.

I read the rest of your first post after typing this all out.

Wow...not very nice,man. it's not my fault if i have a bad time and i never tried GT5 online,no need to get angry...whew...

 

[Samus]

Believe me, I know. It's racing.

No it's not.

 

[Brunet Paquet]

Well then,how i about i unsubscribe from this thread. you call a Mod and get my messages out of here. i don't wanna cause you more trouble even if it wasn't my intention...just wanted to give my advice.

 

[another_jakhole]

Wow...not very nice,man. it's not my fault if i have a bad time and i never tried GT5 online,no need to get angry...whew...

Heh? I read the end of your post where you said you weren't sure of a feature like that after I typed anything after the part I said if you thought it was a joke. I wasn't angry with you or anything. It didn't apply to you since you didn't know about the feature.

No it's not.

Uhh yeahhh. It's racing. Simple.

 

[Samus]

It's not proper track racing unless you can tell me of a real world racing series where cars ghost straight through each other. No, I thought not. Most people are not interested in competing like that because there is no skill in racing, it's just who can hotlap the quickest.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I would think that Tourist Trophy 2 is way overdue. Back in its day, it was one of the few and one of the best in motorcycle fanboi-ness.

-> I could imagine its full PS3/PS4 splendidness. And imagine Moto Guzzi, Victory, Indian, Harley-Davidson, and BRP to join the fray!

~> Not a traditionally a bike fan here.

 

[another_jakhole]

-> I would think that Tourist Trophy 2 is way overdue. Back in its day, it was one of the few and one of the best in motorcycle fanboi-ness.

-> I could imagine its full PS3/PS4 splendidness. And imagine Moto Guzzi, Victory, Indian, Harley-Davidson, and BRP to join the fray!

~> Not a traditionally a bike fan here.

Not a bike fan either, but I would love a TT in the GT for meeeeeeeeeeee.

When my DFGT broke three months ago, I didn't feel like playing much. I felt the greatest urge to use the controller, just not for what's in the game. It was so depressing trying to get used to it. Off-track often, understeer, oversteer, frustrating throttle control. At least with bikes, I only have one option of controller (DS3) ever to choose from, which applies to 99.939% of other GT players that'll use the motorcycles. Not unless the Move Steering Wheel's performance exceeds expectations, then it'll be "99.393% of other GT players".