Multi-Screen Setup finally available in GT5

[PzR Slim]

Very eager to see your report Latte. Have effectively been given the green light by the boss (read wife) to go for a three screen set up. I think I've actually got enough games and old consoles lying around to trade in for the two new PS3's so that just leaves the monitors to shell out for. So if I get my backside in gear I should have all I need to be up and running by the end of next week. I'm hoping your report is going to be invaluable in me setting the thing up.

 

[Momoniu]

I am also very interested, I havn't been able to get the "green light" yet, I need to come up with the costing on new tv's.

so looking at the setup of some users, 22" or 23" lcd's seem to be the norm?
is that a decent size? I have a racing cockpit I intend to mount them too so I will be rather close to the screens,

but I think Bigger is better, would 3 x 32" be over kill?

 

[Mr Latte]

It might be worth checking for info of users that did this with FM3.
For triple screens I would assume having a distance of 3x the screen height (not diagonal) is going to be close to being quite good for peripheral viewing. Be be best if other owners give their setup configurations but some of you may want that in your face approach.

24" doesnt seem small by any means but yes a bit bigger might be more impressive. HDTVs may have some advantages over monitors regards image quality and of course viewing angles so things like this are all things to be taken into account. The issue for many is the space 3x 40" screens would take up and not perhaps "wife" acceptable. Even 3x 32" screens is likely to be 6ft wide footprint.

Were do you stop though because with the 32"-40" screen price that can be compared to:
3x Projectors like the "Optoma HD600x" @ £400 each. These are small easy to operate and could be aligned together for a seemless display projected onto a curved d.i.y screen. Also this is 3D capable projector with the new 3DXL adapter will operate with PC & HDMI 1.4 3D standard.

Jag XJ13 on Le Mans at night.

Standard FOV

Narrow FOV

Narrower FOV

Increased atmosphere

Twilight

 

[yakapo]

I've passingly mentioned getting 3 monitors to the wifey. I didn't mention getting 2 more ps3's. Lol. Best option might be trading something for used ps3's on craigslist.

Btw, Dell has their 23" ips monitor on sale for $249. I've heard it's been as low as $199 before. As soon as it drops that low again I'll pull the trigger.

 

[shirakawaa]

One thing bothers me about multi-monitor setups. Images between different monitors never look perfectly aligned and in general it doesn't seem like the game is performing full area perspective correction, but just on a per-monitor basis. This is quite noticeable in the latest two photos.
Is it only a matter of tweaking screen angle and in-game FOV/screen settings (no matter how hard it can be), or is a perfectly aligned image not possible?

 

[BreeeZe]

One thing bothers me about multi-monitor setups. Images between different monitors never look perfectly aligned and in general it doesn't seem like the game is performing full area perspective correction, but just on a per-monitor basis. This is quite noticeable in the latest two photos.
Is it only a matter of tweaking screen angle and in-game FOV/screen settings (no matter how hard it can be), or is a perfectly aligned image not possible?

I suspect the photo's will never really represent how it looks irl.
You cannot see the real perspective in a picture, because an image is flat.

A bit hard to explain, but I hope you get what i mean, and I hope I'm right

 

[shirakawaa]

I suspect the photo's will never really represent how it looks irl.
You cannot see the real perspective in a picture, because an image is flat.

A bit hard to explain, but I hope you get what i mean, and I hope I'm right

You wouldn't be able to see real perspective (that is what 3D technology is for), but wide angle images can be correctly seen in 2D. That's what photo stitching software does for panoramic images. Since the game 3D viewport is generated in realtime there wouldn't be issues and degradation often experienced with static photos.

Of course, the correct view would be visible only from a single point. That would depend on the game FOV and screen angulation.

Perspective correction would be a little complex. If I remember correctly it's called rectilinear perspective correction.

This is an example I made a few years ago, on which I painted approximated 16:9 display outlines in perspective, as if it were to be represented on a 3-monitor multiscreen setup:

I don't think the perspective correction applied in GT5 is very advanced, but again, maybe it's something that has to be seen in first person.

 

[Mr Latte]

One thing bothers me about multi-monitor setups. Images between different monitors never look perfectly aligned and in general it doesn't seem like the game is performing full area perspective correction, but just on a per-monitor basis. This is quite noticeable in the latest two photos.
Is it only a matter of tweaking screen angle and in-game FOV/screen settings (no matter how hard it can be), or is a perfectly aligned image not possible?

You will see later the main issue is not just settings or indeed the physical angle of the displays. It is very much about seat position including height that are important factors. The setup can be perfect to your position but if you move around dependant to your distance to the screens then the alignment tends to go off between screens.

This will be highlighted and everything from every menu or setting has all been photographed to ensure the guide wont be confusing guys.
Compared to FM3 however this for me was much easier and has better results.

Maybe Eyefinity users can add more to this.

 

[BreeeZe]

@Shirakawa, thanks for the explanation
And
@Mr Latte, that is indeed what I expected about that there is only one perfect seating position, and ment to say to Shirakawa.

I'm looking forward to the detailed analysis, a place to experience the 3 monitor setup is hard to come by, so a detailed review is very welcome to all who might be interested to go this route

 

[GTP_joeninety]

Thankyou Mr Latte - this information will be of great help.
For my setup i have a 22inch LCD as the centre screen and a pair of 20inch Dell monitors for either side - approx 800mm from my seating position.

I'm hoping that the size difference in the screens will not make the image to distorted.

Looking forward to your report:tup:

 

[t.o.]

Never been a fan of cockpit cam because the FOV is just too wide (to try and frame the dash and steering wheel within the available TV space). You feel like you're sitting in the back seat driving the car from cockpit camera. The triple screen setup just seems to exacerbate the problem.

The dash cam (or bumper cam as it's known) looks hands-down the best way to play with a multi monitor setup. Seriously considering investing in a triple monitor setup now.

In a single monitor setup I don't get that feeling at all of being in the backseat. It seems fine to me. Bumper cam in this game feels like I'm where a blower would be on your typical muscle car and lower to the ground.

In the examples in this thread triple screen does seem to give that feeling you're talking about. There's something that just seems "off" about the way the PS3 is doing triple screen as I mentioned before. I think it's probably the guys having to work out some of the details or something. I've seen FM3 triple screens and they've looked spot on, I've seen some though that clearly haven't been setup right. I've yet to see a PS3 one that looks ok, except maybe the one they had at that expo

In the pics above the "narrower" field of view seems to give the best results

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

dp

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

You will see later the main issue is not just settings or indeed the physical angle of the displays. It is very much about seat position including height that are important factors. The setup can be perfect to your position but if you move around dependant to your distance to the screens then the alignment tends to go off between screens.

This will be highlighted and everything from every menu or setting has all been photographed to ensure the guide wont be confusing guys.
Compared to FM3 however this for me was much easier and has better results.

Maybe Eyefinity users can add more to this.

Eyefinity is simple to set up the bezel. After set the bezel you can use the bezel resolution in most PC games.
You are correct that you have to be in the right position for the bezel to be right. When you take a picture you have to move the camera farther back in order to get all 3 screens in the picture.

 

[gslooney]

Great Shot's MR Latte:tup:

I just got mine setup..

Have you overlapped your bezels ?

 

[t.o.]

Guys, as fantastic as these 3 screen setups are, and they are fantastic, you are some blessed guys, they just don't look "right". It took me a minute to figure out how to express what I'm talking about, yeah I'm slow lol, but I got it figured out. These PS3 views look as if you're looking at a panoramic of the interior of a car. Sorta like those 360 interior views you see online at auto manufacturer websites. You don't get the feel of being in the "driver's seat" snug against the wheel, you know what I mean. What throws it off are a few things. It seems as if they are trying to fit too much in the center screen instead of spreading it out over the 3 screens. Also the doors seem to scale out badly on the sides.

Here's an example of what it "should" look like, although I think the driver may be a bit too close to the wheel, which can be fixed in the menus but I guess it feels right to him. Notice the door on the left is barely visible, as should be since your right up on that window and would (depending on the car) would have to go out of your way to look at it. Notice how the side view mirror looks as if it's really sitting right there. Notice the screen on the right and how much cockpit is in that screen giving depth IN the cockpit rather length OF the cockpit. Can you guys replicate that with the PS3 setups?

 

[gslooney]

Guys, as fantastic as these 3 screen setups are, and they are fantastic, you are some blessed guys, they just don't look "right". It took me a minute to figure out how to express what I'm talking about, yeah I'm slow lol, but I got it figured out. These PS3 views look as if you're looking at a panoramic of the interior of a car. Sorta like those 360 interior views you see online at auto manufacturer websites. You don't get the feel of being in the "driver's seat" snug against the wheel, you know what I mean. What throws it off are a few things. It seems as if they are trying to fit too much in the center screen instead of spreading it out over the 3 screens. Also the doors seem to scale out badly on the sides.

Here's an example of what it "should" look like, although I think the driver may be a bit too close to the wheel, which can be fixed in the menus but I guess it feels right to him. Notice the door on the left is barely visible, as should be since your right up on that window and would (depending on the car) would have to go out of your way to look at it. Notice how the side view mirror looks as if it's really sitting right there. Notice the screen on the right and how much cockpit is in that screen giving depth IN the cockpit rather length OF the cockpit. Can you guys replicate that with the PS3 setups?

Great Feedback and thanks for the video it made your point perfectly..

So I went and had a play.. no pictures yet but yes you can.. With the shot I took previous the Field of View was set to 100 degrees.

By changing this back to a more realistic 52-57% you get what you have in the Forza video.

and for me, your correct this is a more in car like representation, it's just amazing how close you can race to other cars when you can see them lol.👍

I'll perhaps have a go at some video later ..

 

[t.o.]

Great Feedback and thanks for the video it made your point perfectly..

So I went and had a play.. no pictures yet but yes you can.. With the shot I took previous the Field of View was set to 100 degrees.

By changing this back to a more realistic 52-57% you get what you have in the Forza video.

and for me, your correct this is a more in car like representation, it's just amazing how close you can race to other cars when you can see them lol.👍

I'll perhaps have a go at some video later ..

Great news. Can't wait to see the vids and pics of that. Them "gullwings" everyone's been posting really was turning me off, lol. Dying to see the "corrected" vids/pics. If you have a chance could you post some also with cockpit view and no hud? Thanks man.

If you happen to find a PS3 laying around send it my way. Gotta start my 3 screen by any means I can, even if it means taking stray lost PS3s. lol

 

[Mr Latte]

gslooney, well done on getting it all in place.
Hope your enjoying it mate.

I do overlap my centre screen and use a setting of 3% border on Left/Right screens with centre screen at 1%.

For those concerned about FOV or indeed different size of screens their is quite a LOT of scope in the settings to adjust the border size and as many of you are wanting to reduce the FOV. I've done that myself since the previous photos and think I might settle for:

90 FOV
Monitors at approx physical 30 degrees
With the options setting at 60

 

[Mr Latte]

I'd like to suggest a test for Raudi/gslooney and anyone else that has the setup currently.

One of the hardest things to achieve is getting a perfect horizontal in game across the 3x screens. For this to work your own position and FOV is very important and as ONLY when you are correctly positioned does the horizontal line in the game look correct with canted monitors/displays.
Try stopping at a START line on Deep Forest and get it to appear as one perfect line and not be disjointed.With good settings and a the perfect distanced from the screens it is possible for this to appear correctly.


However as a further test spin round and go across the finish line to be facing the pit wall and pit building. Here you have 3 horizontals happening, The "Upper balcony" high up, the "Gran Turismo" pit wall mid screen height and the edge or track "White line".
What happens is you get this:
> - <
This was a MAJOR problem in FM3 as well and I'd assume any multiscreen setup.
It's possible with your height/position to correct the alignment with one but it seems impossible to have perfect horizontal alignment for UPPER/MID/LOWER horizontal lines at once and a limitation of such setups.

 

[t.o.]

Great Feedback and thanks for the video it made your point perfectly..

So I went and had a play.. no pictures yet but yes you can.. With the shot I took previous the Field of View was set to 100 degrees.

By changing this back to a more realistic 52-57% you get what you have in the Forza video.

and for me, your correct this is a more in car like representation, it's just amazing how close you can race to other cars when you can see them lol.👍

I'll perhaps have a go at some video later ..

Oh, also, now that you have driven the game both ways since you have real first hand knowledge which way do you prefer driving with? The way the pics look in this thread or the new way I showed you in the video? Just because things look "correct" may not necessarily be fun or give you the immersion. I'm wondering if it's working for you better than before.

 

[gslooney]

Excuse the shoddy driving and poor camera work.. hmm anything else I can get excused from



I tried to film this by playing a replay I'd saved before. I then placed the camera where my head would be normally in the chair in an attempt to recreate what I see.. sort of helmet cam view if you like.. I think it's fairly representative.

@Mr Latte

unfortunately I went to trial mountain instead of Deep Forest

I thought the bridge was a good straight Edge..

And In Car...

with the camera active and head tracking this is very nice


finally shots to the left and right...

This is a very different view from the previous image..

Remember with the camera lens this wide there's going to be some distortion at play as well..

@ t.o. It's way better like this thanks a million

update:

Just went to Deep Forest.. I don't think the start lines a good gauge as the camber on the right makes it go up!
If I face the crowd.. it still looks fairly straight.

try this for a laugh .. stick some soft comfort tyres on and donut the car till it's going at a ridiculous speed.. feel sick yet

 

[Mr Latte]

gslooney post a pic from Deep Forest drive right up the start line facing the pit wall and touch it with the bonnet. I'd like to see your images of that. Show the GT pit wall and pit garage/balcony across the three screens.

@ t.o video won't show on my iPad/iPhone can you post a link?

 

[t.o.]

AHHHHH yes we're getting closer. Much improved! Ok let's (lol , I'm saying let's like I'm actually driving it with you) do a little more. Ok, what I notice is it seems you had to make the left/right screens angles a bit more shallow. See if you can put more angle in the screens WHILE keeping that same view thereby giving you more sideview and less distortion in it. "We're" almost THERE!!! lol

Looking good man in any case. Man I wish I could get this going for myself. Past 6 months have been bad for me and wife (outside family stuff) and has really put a strain on the finances. No way I could swing 2 more PS3s (really have to get 3 cause couldn't take the one from the living room just for this, double duty PS3 there Netflix/Gaming) at the moment.

@ t.o video won't show on my iPad/iPhone can you post a link?

Ok, NP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFA5T1oyEH8&feature=player_embedded

 

[mykem]

One thing bothers me about multi-monitor setups. Images between different monitors never look perfectly aligned and in general it doesn't seem like the game is performing full area perspective correction, but just on a per-monitor basis. This is quite noticeable in the latest two photos.
Is it only a matter of tweaking screen angle and in-game FOV/screen settings (no matter how hard it can be), or is a perfectly aligned image not possible?

Another you have to consider when looking at a photo/video is the focal length of the lens especially with zoomable digicam. With these kinds of images: wide-angle, possibly 24mm-28mm (35mm equivalent), you're getting focal distortion leaning towards being more convex- the reason why wide-angle image have the "fisheye" look. Hence you're seeing the same effect with the image. Photoshop has a distortion removal filter (under Filter>Distort>Lens Correction>where you can then apply specific camera/lens unit).

 

[gslooney]

AHHHHH yes we're getting closer. Much improved! Ok let's (lol , I'm saying let's like I'm actually driving it with you) do a little more. Ok, what I notice is it seems you had to make the left/right screens angles a bit more shallow. See if you can put more angle in the screens WHILE keeping that same view thereby giving you more sideview and less distortion in it. "We're" almost THERE!!! lol

I Don't have to make them shallow, I choose it that way.. When I angle them in I find the screens are too close for my ageing eyes I started out with the screens at 30, have gone to about 40 degrees.. I settled on this as it fills my vision. When I load up the Audi I drive in it.. It's uncanny how my head will find the rear view mirror!!

@Mr Latte ..

As you requested..

I did the same views at FOV 80 and FOV 57.. in car and out of Car..

FOV 80:

FOV 57:

these shots are take looking slightly down on the screens from behind the seat.

I see what your getting at, but with the narrower FOV I can live with it.. the Forza Video is similar.

 

[Mr Latte]

it's okay t.o just viewed it on PS3 as still not working on Safari.

The position a camera has to be is completely different to the position we are driving in. So how the photos look (with a camera 2x further away) won't fully represent the FOV correctly when in the proper position it has been calibrated for.


Okay heres the issue Im trying to discuss...

Can you post the same image viewpoint...
It's only when I sit at the correct distance from the screen and in the appropriate position does my eyes FOV seem to match what the software FOV is doing and makes these appear as one straight line.

if you are finding the same then it helps confirm for the review if indeed a seated sweetspot is required dependent to how the displays are physically angled and set in the options.

 

[gslooney]

The seating position is critical when it comes to these pictures.

The midpoint(horizontal) of my monitors is at eye level when I'm seated in the Rig.

For this test I angled the screen's more inwardly.

First shot a little too high a camera position (or seating)

Now a little too far down.. still not perfect!

And now more or less in line and a little more forward.

still not perfect as I have the two side screens tucked behind the centre screen. but when racing this is pretty good.

Settings:

Angle 120
FOV 67
Viewing distance from the screen's 1.05M
Bezel 7% centre 3 % sides.

Hopefully this is what your on about Mr Latte ???

No Bob's were injured taking these pictures but one AUDI did get smacked into the barriers

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah I think their has to be a small degree of imperfection in alignment if overlapping the centre screen. I've spent a lot of time with different settings to get a better understanding of it all and how things are effected.

I agree with having head height that is central to the screens. Is your distance close to the 3x screen height that I assumed would be good?

Still needing to do more work with the FOV options and to determine where abouts the Narrow/Narrower scales in the 50-100. For instance if set to 100 in the options but then selecting Narrow what is that equal to in FOV when set to Standard?

So far Ive found it more to my preference to have the FOV at 90 and then use the Narrow/Narrower depending on car and this could help compensate a car that oversteers or understeers. With a shorter FOV then wouldn't that reduce reaction times for upcoming corners and maneuverers?

Also changing the FOV in the multiscreen options does indeed alter the viewpoint to the car in different views. I was incorrect earlier stating FOV made no difference to these. It doesn't alter the other views if using the Narrow/Narrower as that's what I had tested previously.

So I'm wanting to do further testing on this before putting up the review.

 

[gslooney]

I've put comments in line..

Yeah I think their has to be a small degree of imperfection in alignment if overlapping the centre screen. I've spent a lot of time with different settings to get a better understanding of it all and how things are effected.

I agree with having head height that is central to the screens. Is your distance close to the 3x screen height that I assumed would be good?

Yes it's almost exactly 3 times from my eyes to the centre screen

Still needing to do more work with the FOV options and to determine where abouts the Narrow/Narrower scales in the 50-100. For instance if set to 100 in the options but then selecting Narrow what is that equal to in FOV when set to Standard?

So far Ive found it more to my preference to have the FOV at 90 and then use the Narrow/Narrower depending on car and this could help compensate a car that oversteers or understeers. With a shorter FOV then wouldn't that reduce reaction times for upcoming corners and maneuverers?

Not sure I follow that, I usually try and tune it out or drive with those characteristics in mind, Does the view make it easier.. well one of the advantages off a narrower FOV is to shorten the viewable distance (DUH) this in turn makes the elevation changes of a track much more noticeable and so the camber on approach to corners.. try it and see

Also changing the FOV in the multiscreen options does indeed alter the viewpoint to the car in different views. I was incorrect earlier stating FOV made no difference to these. It doesn't alter the other views if using the Narrow/Narrower as that's what I had tested previously.

So I'm wanting to do further testing on this before putting up the review.

I set this up to try and get it as lifelike as possible, From the example on the GT5 page they give an example when you have 3 monitors. "if you set to an Angle of Screen Curvature of 120 degrees, with a Screen Angle value of 69%, it will cover your field of vision all the way to the direct sides, and the view in each monitor will be facing flat towards your viewpoint, providing an image with no distortion."

From Where I'm sitting that looks pretty good to me (I can still narrow it in game with the menu options)

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay thanks for confirming, regards FOV we've both achieved pretty good alignment with very different FOV, Raudi as well. So this seems less important than the physical and curvature settings which are more problematic as is matching screens in colour etc.

The ingame manual gives more details on setup and better than the info on release.
FOV is going to differ for peoples tastes but its very easy to go in and change this value. For me I Have not decided yet but find I vary it with different cars before I decide on a setting I like with my personal favourite cars. I think that's what people will do is find a setting they like for the cars they like most.

I had a weird thing happen last night with damage to a rear wing showing on the right screen but when the car was on other screens it was normal.

Has anyone else had weird bugs?