Need for speed gets "serious".....confirmed!

[Jay]

comment about the powerful cars being hard to spin out can apply to Forza & GT as there were plenty of powerful cars in both games that took quite some effort to actually get loose; otherwise, you could nearly floor it through whole turns sometimes.

That was the case with GT4 indeed, but in GT5 certainly not.


This preview from VirtualR is confirming my fears from watching ingame footage, I will still download the demo to see for myself though.

Actually NFS initially had it's roots as a very good racer when it was initially called Road&Track Presents: The Need for Speed when it launched on the Panasonic 3DO when EA Canada collaborated with R&D to produce the game which got very good reviews for it's realism at that time.

Indeed, still one of my all time favorite racing/car games of all time 👍

 

[Paulie]

The video logos posted looks more promising, but to me the car didn't look to respond to wheel movements very well.

 

[alexsteffen]

Whether it was FC/SCC or GT5P, if SHIFT feels like either of those it would be a good thing. 👍 Odd that Alex wouldn't be able to tell which of the two it was more like, as they are pretty different from each other...

Hi Simcoe!

Well, it seems like i simply wasn´t that cold blooded

Like is said i had great difficulties to play the game with the pad on the ps3. And i only had two chances to drive it on the two different race-seats with a G25. So, after waiting more than 40 Minutes i took place on the big one and was simply very excited So i did my 4 laps, concentrated on the (for me unknown) track und enjoyed the motion of the seat. And when the 4 laps were over i firstly realized that it was very easy for me to drive the MC12 on the limit with the wheel. And then i began to wonder!?

Well, there were definately driving aids activated but still some spun off the track or they braked to late. So it could not only depend on the driving aids.

I think the steering is somewhere between GT5 and FC ! But please don´t nail me down to that!

The MC12 didn´t act like some cars in GT5P, that go around a corner like driving on a rail but it also didn´t feel like FC where you have to work extremely with the throttle & brakes to bring the balance point of the car to where you want it to be at that moment. It´s really difficult to describe! But i liked it!

At the end, everyone has to decide for himself if the game fulfills his sim-expectations! I really hope that we will get a demo soon, that this demo supports steering wheels and that we will be able to choose driving aids and driving style!

At least i´m pretty happy about other guys in the GTRP-Forum that where at the gamescom and played shift on the sim-racks. About 80 % of them confirmed my impressions and i know most of them from FC or the SCC Beta. None of them is an Arcade Fan.

But a little bit of Arcade can be real fun! I never expected me to say something like this, before i took place on that gameseat in cologne! I hope that you will all understand these words after playing the demo or the final game. I really do (well, otherwise i will get beaten!= )

There is something that is a real (and very important) part of Racing that Shift delivers and that you will definately not get in GT5 (you also could not find in the other parts of the series). But sorry ! I really can´t tell you what it is. It´s that one thing that made me smile during my laps on the race seat. And i really hope that it wasn´t just the motion of the chair. When i drove a lap in GT4 on the Nordschleife with my favourite car ( Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2,5-16 V DTM-Racecar) i always was fully concentrated. Definately no smiling!

But at the end: Smiling and having fun with a game is a part of playing!

After hunting a lap time or another gold-medal in GT5P, didn´t you sometimes get the feeling of just acting kind of binary? It wasn´t anymore about driving a scary and powerful racecar at full speed around a challenging track, enjoying the sound of it and finally being able to "rule" the car. It was about handling a nameless object with the right speed over a grey colored "line" and finally beating a time!

You can also experience this in many other (really good) racegames, but sometimes this happens more often or earlier and sometimes this happens less or later. FC was one of these games where it happened very rarely to me. I always knew what i was doing but i never forgot about that simulated car i was driving. And i think that Shift will also be able to permanently remind you of the race-action and the fun!

Well, like i said: It´s really hard to describe!

 

[peter_vod69]

Hi Simcoe!

Well, it seems like i simply wasn´t that cold blooded

Like is said i had great difficulties to play the game with the pad on the ps3. And i only had two chances to drive it on the two different race-seats with a G25. So, after waiting more than 40 Minutes i took place on the big one and was simply very excited So i did my 4 laps, concentrated on the (for me unknown) track und enjoyed the motion of the seat. And when the 4 laps were over i firstly realized that it was very easy for me to drive the MC12 on the limit with the wheel. And then i began to wonder!?

Well, there were definately driving aids activated but still some spun off the track or they braked to late. So it could not only depend on the driving aids.

I think the steering is somewhere between GT5 and FC ! But please don´t nail me down to that!

The MC12 didn´t act like some cars in GT5P, that go around a corner like driving on a rail but it also didn´t feel like FC where you have to work extremely with the throttle & brakes to bring the balance point of the car to where you want it to be at that moment. It´s really difficult to describe! But i liked it!

At the end, everyone has to decide for himself if the game fulfills his sim-expectations! I really hope that we will get a demo soon, that this demo supports steering wheels and that we will be able to choose driving aids and driving style!

At least i´m pretty happy about other guys in the GTRP-Forum that where at the gamescom and played shift on the sim-racks. About 80 % of them confirmed my impressions and i know most of them from FC or the SCC Beta. None of them is an Arcade Fan.

But a little bit of Arcade can be real fun! I never expected me to say something like this, before i took place on that gameseat in cologne! I hope that you will all understand these words after playing the demo or the final game. I really do (well, otherwise i will get beaten!= )

There is something that is a real (and very important) part of Racing that Shift delivers and that you will definately not get in GT5 (you also could not find in the other parts of the series). But sorry ! I really can´t tell you what it is. It´s that one thing that made me smile during my laps on the race seat. And i really hope that it wasn´t just the motion of the chair. When i drove a lap in GT4 on the Nordschleife with my favourite car ( Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2,5-16 V DTM-Racecar) i always was fully concentrated. Definately no smiling!

But at the end: Smiling and having fun with a game is a part of playing!

After hunting a lap time or another gold-medal in GT5P, didn´t you sometimes get the feeling of just acting kind of binary? It wasn´t anymore about driving a scary and powerful racecar at full speed around a challenging track, enjoying the sound of it and finally being able to "rule" the car. It was about handling a nameless object with the right speed over a grey colored "line" and finally beating a time!

You can also experience this in many other (really good) racegames, but sometimes this happens more often or earlier and sometimes this happens less or later. FC was one of these games where it happened very rarely to me. I always knew what i was doing but i never forgot about that simulated car i was driving. And i think that Shift will also be able to permanently remind you of the race-action and the fun!

Well, like i said: It´s really hard to describe!

I think the difference you might be talking about is that in GT5P you react to situations like oversteer and so forth, but in Shift you might feel them coming on and be able to pre-empt them? GT5P could use an improvement in feel, but I don't know exactly how. I think its got steering feel right in most cases, but other games (perhaps unrealistically) use the FFB to greater effect, making for a more feelsome experience.

 

[Hereward]

Cheers Alex, I'm excited and confused....and slightly scared now LOL

 

[Alltidxx]

Of course arcade can be fun. NFSS seems sim enough though and the graphics are stunning. Nevertheless, I just... can't feel any exitement over this game. I don't know what it is. Race 07 series has worse graphics and rather dry environments but is still awsome fun in a box. F1CE is not a full on sim but awsome fun too. And I get exited over GT4, MotoGP 07 (PS2) and the anticipation for GT5 and other upcoming games.

But Need For Speed Shift? I feel completely indifferent...

 

[jjaisli]

There is something that is a real (and very important) part of Racing that Shift delivers and that you will definately not get in GT5 (you also could not find in the other parts of the series)....After hunting a lap time or another gold-medal in GT5P, didn´t you sometimes get the feeling of just acting kind of binary? It wasn´t anymore about driving a scary and powerful racecar at full speed around a challenging track, enjoying the sound of it and finally being able to "rule" the car. It was about handling a nameless object with the right speed over a grey colored "line" and finally beating a time!

You can also experience this in many other (really good) racegames, but sometimes this happens more often or earlier and sometimes this happens less or later. FC was one of these games where it happened very rarely to me. I always knew what i was doing but i never forgot about that simulated car i was driving. And i think that Shift will also be able to permanently remind you of the race-action and the fun!

Well, like i said: It´s really hard to describe!

What a great post, Alex. For somebody who isn't a native English speaker, you can be quite articulate and your thoughts really manage to capture some of the sensations I've experienced myself and put them into proper context.

But if this game is a tosser...it isn't going to save you.

 

[jjaisli]

another video by the same user. This time its Laguna Seca.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OSVH1xBM4Q

This is a another great video! 👍

I will say this. A grainy, low quality, YouTube video, originally taken with a hand-held cam of questionable quality, of the game, playing in the background on a monitor is by no means the proper way to judge. BUT, keeping that in mind, I think the visuals are massively impressive. Aside from the hood of the car and the racing line and HUD, I would be hard pressed to tell this was a video game and not genuine in-car footage. At least seen from this angle under those conditions it really looks THAT good. Wow.

I do however see at least a few instances where putting a wheel or two of a high powered GT1 car like the MC12 off the track and onto the dirt or grass would have likely resulted in either a spin or a lot more work and drama to get it back on the road in real life. And I didn't see any aid lights flashing.

I guess we're just a picky lot.

 

[Hereward]

Listening to the wheel beeing "seesawed" around looks like he had his hands full again LOL as for the wheel on the grass, I did notice this as well, maybe he just let of the throttle to keep it in control? 2 wheels on the grass and booting it is allways a bad idea and judgeing from his level of skill I doubt he would have made this mistake, again though it's really hard to see adsactly what was going on to that extent in the video, cant see the speedo or hear the engine to know if he did or didn't accelerate.

 

[tingri]

The best video so far, all aids off ,the car slides and spins pretty realistic and the wheel moves 1:1

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=131238846664&ref=mf

 

[logos]

The best video so far, all aids off ,the car slides and spins pretty realistic and the wheel moves 1:1

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=131238846664&ref=mf

Indeed very good video!

Although the driver makes driving mistakes, the video is indicative of the good physics engine in Shift.

 

[tingri]

Exactly the physics engine runs at 400Hz equal to the iRacing one and I am sure the simracing community will find a way to tweak the PC version physics further. I wish we could do that in GT5 on a PS3

 

[etp_ayer]

The Facebook Video with the old GT-R looks kinda yummie...but the blur which kicks in at >80mph is a bit over the top.

 

[paskowitz]

The best video so far, all aids off ,the car slides and spins pretty realistic and the wheel moves 1:1

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=131238846664&ref=mf

I hereby eat my comment before. That looks promising to me. The car acts mostly natural. The only thing I would pick at is there seems to be a lack of over correcting when correcting oversteer. It just seems to float back. Still it looks very promising.

 

[Hereward]

Big difference between the cars too, the MC12 is a bit more rooted to the tarmac than the old GTR..Reminicent of the old school cars on FC with a hint of Forza.....definatly not a bad thing.

 

[markao]

The Facebook Video with the old GT-R looks kinda yummie...but the blur which kicks in at >80mph is a bit over the top.

Noticed it to, but strange thing is in videos with faster cars it kicks in at a higher speed. So my best guess is, it is more related to the top speed each car can do than the actual speed you are driving, or maybe just difffferent versions of the game


Any way demo 💡

 

[angelacaine]

I'm sorta hoping that blur is turn off-able. When driving in cockpit view I find I tend to use the dahboard speedo/rev counter instead of the GUI thingy in the corner. Sorta would suck not to be able to read your speed clearly over 80 (or whatever speed depending on the car).

 

[Hereward]

Needle position is clear on tach and speedo plus you can see what gear your in, shouldn't be a huge problem, plus you may be able to turn that effect off as you say. Personaly I dont use anything bar the tach and can judge what speed I'm doing....or rather have no clue what speed I'm doing, I just remember the brakeing points.

 

[jjaisli]

I'm sorta hoping that blur is turn off-able. When driving in cockpit view I find I tend to use the dahboard speedo/rev counter instead of the GUI thingy in the corner. Sorta would suck not to be able to read your speed clearly over 80 (or whatever speed depending on the car).

I seem to remember that you can turn off the blur effect. I tried to find where I read it now and couldn't. But I'm wondering if it was from one of the video interviews...

 

[markao]

So time for an official EA clip again, not found HD version yet, so follow the link to the NFS site for now

Track Guide: Road America


[YOUTUBEHD]DEAOJLsfX_E&fmt=22[/YOUTUBEHD]

Or download in full 1280-720 here : gamersyde.com

 

[andrewyhy]

I seem to remember that you can turn off the blur effect. I tried to find where I read it now and couldn't. But I'm wondering if it was from one of the video interviews...

If that's really the case, I'd be glad to hear that!
I just don't really like to see the dash board getting blurred at that low speed.

 

[Masi_23]

Indeed very good video!

Although the driver makes driving mistakes, the video is indicative of the good physics engine in Shift.

I guess the slower the car, the better it looks.

 

[kikie]

Exactly the physics engine runs at 400Hz equal to the iRacing one

If it turns out that shift's physics/collision engine is almost as good as iRacing/netKar pro's, then I will be very, very pleased.

and I am sure the simracing community will find a way to tweak the PC version physics further.

That's why I am going to get the pc version. The last view years, I was more inclined to prefer a console over a pc but shift/iRacing/netKarPro made me change my mind again.

I wish we could do that in GT5 on a PS3

Your wish is, my command ... my wish as well.

The Facebook Video with the old GT-R looks kinda yummie...but the blur which kicks in at >80mph is a bit over the top.

Not a bit, but completely over the top, IMO. On the other hand, the blur makes you concentrate more on the road ahead (watch the clip again and you'll see).

I seem to remember that you can turn off the blur effect. I tried to find where I read it now and couldn't. But I'm wondering if it was from one of the video interviews...

I hope you're right!

I guess that the pc version will give us more freedom concerning graphics settings etc. ... .


If you look at the following screenshot, you'll see that his speed is 67-68 mph and he shifted, very quick, from 5th to 2nd gear, revving the engine too high.
This action at that speed normally results in locking up the rear wheels (as this is a RWD) and makes the car to oversteer. This happens exactly as I'd expect. So I guess that Eero did a marvellous job with the tire physics.

• The tracks looks more realistically proportioned, wider (or is it my imagination?) than the GT4 version.
• the car seems to be better controllable than the the cars in GT.
• This video clip reminds me of a youtube clip I once saw on GTP, where a, I think a professional driver, took a Ruf Yellow bird for a drive on the 'ring. I'm going to look for this clip again and will post it in this post. You won't be able to see me look for this post because I'm going to wait to submit reply untill I found and posted this clip, for all of you to enjoy.

Found it

Look how the car behaves and how the driver has to work to keep the car in balance.The video clip and this youtube seems to show some similarities concerning the behavier of the car?

 

[Masi_23]

It's "Sideways Stefan" Roser

 

[Biggles]

I think the difference you might be talking about is that in GT5P you react to situations like oversteer and so forth, but in Shift you might feel them coming on and be able to pre-empt them? GT5P could use an improvement in feel, but I don't know exactly how. I think its got steering feel right in most cases, but other games (perhaps unrealistically) use the FFB to greater effect, making for a more feelsome experience.

Having driven a lot in FC (& F1CE for that matter) I think I can say exactly how GT5P could use an improvement: make the FFB stronger & more descriptive. I think that too much of the driving in GT5P relies on knowledge of the correct response & not enough on feel. IRL you are given a lot of cues by the G forces & other sensations of driving. These are missing in a game, so that the FFB has to provide more of that information.

Different games also provide various other "atmospheric" cues: speed blur, exaggerated visual style etc. Personally I am not a big fan of the GRID/DIRT approach, which is to turn the whole thing into some kind of "X-Games"-type presentation. But at the other extreme is GT, which is so clinical in its presentation that it fails to convey the sense of speed & danger of RL racing, falling back on the position that it is the "real driving simulator" rather than the "real racing simulator".

I'm hopeful that SHIFT will strike a happy balance between these extremes: good physics, good FFB & a camera style that conveys more of the grit & risk of RL racing.

 

[The Outlaw]

Having driven a lot in FC (& F1CE for that matter) I think I can say exactly how GT5P could use an improvement: make the FFB stronger & more descriptive. I think that too much of the driving in GT5P relies on knowledge of the correct response & not enough on feel. IRL you are given a lot of cues by the G forces & other sensations of driving. These are missing in a game, so that the FFB has to provide more of that information.

Different games also provide various other "atmospheric" cues: speed blur, exaggerated visual style etc. Personally I am not a big fan of the GRID/DIRT approach, which is to turn the whole thing into some kind of "X-Games"-type presentation. But at the other extreme is GT, which is so clinical in its presentation that it fails to convey the sense of speed & danger of RL racing, falling back on the position that it is the "real driving simulator" rather than the "real racing simulator".

I'm hopeful that SHIFT will strike a happy balance between these extremes: good physics, good FFB & a camera style that conveys more of the grit & risk of RL racing.

Couldn't agree more

 

[markao]

• The tracks looks more realistically proportioned, wider (or is it my imagination?) than the GT4 version.

You cannot say anything sensible about that unless you know what kind of FOV is being used. If you have the exact same model of the track and you use a slightly different FOV, the track already will look different.


The GT series have always used a very low FOV to get the tracks to look as real as possible (steepness hills, roads non stretched). There's only one problem with it and that's the low sense of speed you get when using a low FOV (in game (2d) eyes perceive no depth and distance looks less in game).


Shift uses a higher FOV, means higher sense of speed, but tracks are a little stretched, hills flattened (look at Eau Rouge for example), etc.


Attached is a very old image from GPL that still shows more clear what I mean. 1st image FOV 50, middle 100 last 150. First looks real, but distance from car to top hill looks less, so brain thinks you travel slower.

 

[Biggles]

Look how the car behaves and how the driver has to work to keep the car in balance.The video clip and this youtube seems to show some similarities concerning the behavier of the car?

That lap would be considered a terrible lap in GT5P. Why? Partly because in GT5P (& other racing games) people have generally driven the tracks so many times, that they've reduced the inputs to an exact science, knowing exactly how much throttle & brake to apply at each moment.

The other thing I notice is that driving fast in GT5P usually involves almost constant throttle pressure - there's very little time spent "coasting" or allowing the weight of the car to "resettle" between turns. That's because weight transfer is under-represented. In anything other than a race car with racing tires, high downforce & a very low COG, the driving should involve more "wrestling" with the wheel to maintain balance - like in that video.



Interesting pictures markao. Isn't part of the issue that on a single screen you're only seeing directly ahead. What gives a sense of the speed you're travelling IRL, is the peripheral vision that allows you to see the landscape to the sides flashing by.

 

[Watevaman]

I know this blur crap is supposed to "realistic," but if they have the option for those of us who like to turn off the HUD, how are we supposed to know how fast we're going when we can't read the gauges? I'm not saying I can't drive based on other things, but it's nice to know speeds your hitting for those time attacks when every MPH matters.

 

[myke6699]

That lap would be considered a terrible lap in GT5P. Why? Partly because in GT5P (& other racing games) people have generally driven the tracks so many times, that they've reduced the inputs to an exact science, knowing exactly how much throttle & brake to apply at each moment.

The other thing I notice is that driving fast in GT5P usually involves almost constant throttle pressure - there's very little time spent "coasting" or allowing the weight of the car to "resettle" between turns. That's because weight transfer is under-represented. In anything other than a race car with racing tires, high downforce & a very low COG, the driving should involve more "wrestling" with the wheel to maintain balance - like in that video.

That would be absolutely true if you were to stick to the often used S2 tires (or even S1). Try the Ferrari F40 with the recommeded N2 or N3 and you'll find the you need to be able to control you throttle and braking. I usually stick to N2-N3 (N2 to anything below 300bhp and N3 above) on almost all the cars saved for the tuned ones where I would use S1 only. Even the F2007 feels so much better with just N1-N3 tires.

Here's an example: the F40 sans assists (can't turn off ABS in TT mode, though), N3 tires, G25 set to 10.

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