New Gran Turismo 7 "Collector" Video Reveals More Cars and Tracks

[Epic B]

The problem with the Calsonic R32 GT-R is it's horsepower is way too high for that class (550 hp/1260 kg/554 PP using PS3-era PP method)... but then again there's the 570S GT4 which apparently makes 570 hp before BOP (another source for iRacing says it makes 462 hp though).

I assume 462 is closer to however much power the 570S GT4 is making. 570 horsepower is already in Group GT3 territory.

It would be nice if they created more classes. Classic Gr.1, Classic Gr.2, etc. Atleast now they seem to have way more options for those classes than GTS did.

I wish there was a Group H for old race cars.

 

[NotThePrez]

So how are Gr. and PP going to work in tandem? Are we going to have Gr.4 / 530PP and Gr.4 / 550PP races?

This is also what I'm wondering. I knew the Group system would still be present for the existing GT and road cars, but not necessarily for all race cars present. It seems like it could create a bit of a headache when it comes to balancing races, since it's also a bit to unspecific (see the GT Sport Group 3 category).

Honestly, imo PD needs to do 1 of 2 things with the Group system. They either need to A) expand the Group system so that there are much tighter categories for specific cars, such as adding a "Historic TC," "TC1," or plain-old "DTM" Group so that the Alfa 155 isn't paired with GT4 cars (other examples apply, such as making a new Group 1 category for the F1 GTR and DBR9), or B), scrap the system altogether, and perhaps re-introduce the system from older GT games were some races were limited to specific vehicles (probably keeping the Performance Rating system too, though we haven't seen how good a job it does at actual balancing, yet).

 

[gthelmi2398]

The Group 1-4 idea is alright. Furthermore I just hope they create some categories inside. For example we have daily races with just Gr. 4 cars and just FWD. You can do it for Group 3 races too, that you just can choose a normal GT3 car. In Nations Cup next time is a race on Spa and you only choose between German GT3 cars. If you use Gr. 1-4 this way it is a very good thing for a racing game.
And yes, I don't like GT1 cars between much Gt3 and this is the reason I choose Ford Mustang Gr. 3.

the Alfa Romeo 155 for GT7 is in Group 4. Maybe you can choose this car for Manufacturer Series... Let us wait whether it is a good idea. More I am thinking about the chance to create a classic touring car cup within Gr. 4. Will be a BMW 3.0 CSL in this Group too?

let us wait and we meet in a lobby for a test race

 

[Tetraturbo]

I wonder if the TOM'S SUPRA and if the Skyline GT500 are in Gr.3 or Gr.2? I remember they were racing along with a 155 V6 in the September trailer, which is now a Gr.4 car

 

[bduddy]

Group N's seem to be back after being absent from previous previews. And many of the numbers (dimensions, torque) are still wrong, guessing it's some kind of unit conversion issue? Obviously that'll be fixed.

I really like how the #findyourline tagline implies the teases we're getting.

 

[dacc10]

I wish there was a Group H for old race cars.

There are way too many "old" race cars, to be placed in one single class. There should be for example:
Group C (for actual Group C cars);
A specific group for the 330 P4, Mark IV, XJ-13, 917K, A220 and even the Chaparral 2J (though the 2D would probably be better);
Classic Group B (self explanatory, we just need other Group B cars like the 205, RS200, Delta S4, etc);
A group for GT1 machines like the CLK LM, F1 GTR, 911 GT1, etc.
And so on.

 

[pornomazinger]

Maybe I'm being dense, but what track is the Sauber shown at?

Initially I thought St. Croix...

?

View attachment 1089934

mount panorama?

 

[Eks]

So how are Gr. and PP going to work in tandem? Are we going to have Gr.4 / 530PP and Gr.4 / 550PP races?

Maybe all Gr.4 events will have a set PP (let's say 550), and, should you use a car that ranks lower, an additional credit bonus is awarded to you. Lower PP = Larger bonus.

That's my thought but not one I'm happy about since it could be implemented in a lazy way. I.e., default credit rewards being garbage, so you're encouraged to use slower cars to help the gimped AI feel competitive. Let's hope PD gets inventive with the double class system.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Can't believe they made the Alfa 155 a Gr.4 car

DTM cars from 1993 are actually slower than modern day GT4 cars...

Go have a look at the pole time at the DTM round at Donington Park and compare it to the GT4 quali times from British GT.

 

[Epic B]

There are way too many "old" race cars, to be placed in one single class. There should be for example:
Group C (for actual Group C cars);
A specific group for the 330 P4, Mark IV, XJ-13, 917K, A220 and even the Chaparral 2J (though the 2D would probably be better);
Classic Group B (self explanatory, we just need other Group B cars like the 205, RS200, Delta S4, etc);
A group for GT1 machines like the CLK LM, F1 GTR, 911 GT1, etc.
And so on.

The "Group H" I was specifically thinking of would be a historic car class. Though maybe it would have to be segregated into multiple classes based on power. Maybe have one class with the GTO, DB3S and D-Type. I don't know where the A220 would fit in. The second class would include the Mark IV, XJ13, the 2D if it returns, the 917 and maybe the 2J if you nerf it. Classic Group B cars could easily fit in with the fantasy Group B cars. As for the classic GT1s, I don't know. They could warrant their own class, though the short tail F1 GTR is already in Group 3. The classic GT1s are technically GT cars but I think of them more as quasi-prototypes. I wonder how these could fit into Group 1. At least one GT1 car did also run as a prototype. Then again I thought GT7 was supposed to be abolishing the Group X and N classes (though they seem to be keeping Groups 1/2/3/4/B).

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

This is also what I'm wondering. I knew the Group system would still be present for the existing GT and road cars, but not necessarily for all race cars present. It seems like it could create a bit of a headache when it comes to balancing races, since it's also a bit to unspecific (see the GT Sport Group 3 category).

Honestly, imo PD needs to do 1 of 2 things with the Group system. They either need to A) expand the Group system so that there are much tighter categories for specific cars, such as adding a "Historic TC," "TC1," or plain-old "DTM" Group so that the Alfa 155 isn't paired with GT4 cars (other examples apply, such as making a new Group 1 category for the F1 GTR and DBR9), or B), scrap the system altogether, and perhaps re-introduce the system from older GT games were some races were limited to specific vehicles (probably keeping the Performance Rating system too, though we haven't seen how good a job it does at actual balancing, yet).

Or C) allow players/online room hosts to individually select eligible cars a la AC. That's a useful tool.

 

[Eager Snake]

If they really do model all that, as they say, then it really begs the 'why' question. Seems like a lot of incredible work for ultimately nothing. The fact that you can walk around your car, open the door, get in, start it, and then go out driving into the world, is one those things that Forza Horizon 5 has, that adds to the car ownership feeling and that I would really like to see in a Gran Turismo title.

You can actually walk around the car in GT Sport with PSVR, you can't see the interior or the engine at least in the showroom, but you can during gameplay. Anyway, that feauture alone, even if it's not totally exploited, it's absolutely INCREDIBLE.
That alone makes the VR implementation worth it. The detail in those models are stunning. I just love it.
Let's hope to see a proper VR implementation on PS5 and some of these cool features on GT7, the game is looking amazing so far.

 

[Quakebass]

I have a theory that the PP N/Groupings might work similarly to FM4’s Performance Index but with added layers. I.e. at certain PP thresholds cars will be promoted/demoted to different categories, however, unlike Forza, it wouldn’t be on a single scale where road cars could be placed in R/X categories.

My theory is cars internally designated as road cars will go on the N-scale, those designated as race cars will go on the Group scale (1-4, maybe X). For example, the DB11 as seen in the reveal trailer has 538PP and is in an N category, and the Alfa conveniently has the exact same PP rating but is classed in a Group racing category.

There could be other scales or specific hard-coded categories like Group B (maybe A will appear?), and Group X could remain as the un-classifiable like in GTS for things like Formula cars, karts, time attack cars, etc. Group X could also serve as an upper/lower limits overflow to the racing group scale if one is tuned or is naturally above or below the thresholds for Gr. 1-4, like the historic racing cars (too slow for Gr. 4) and if we’re given the option to modify Gr. 1 cars above their normal performance rating.

Ideally cars would be separated into era/class/PP appropriate grouping in campaign and competitive modes, but perhaps the categories are used to remind players of the approximate performance level your car sits at or has been tuned to?

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Having an old DTM car in Gr.4 is just an epic fail. Seems like PD is still trying to shoehorn every car into a few select classes. Also this pretty much confirms that FF/4WD will still be in Gr.4 again. Bye bye any semblance of good BOP...

Can't wait to see how the 1999 Pennzoil Skyline will fare against 2016 GT-R, or the 917K against the 919

On the other hand, happy to see Apricot Hill (potentially) coming back 👍

 

[05XR8]

When I saw the yellow car in an aerial view of the second trailer, I already said good-bye to class realism.
It's just SuperTaikyu without defining multi-class. If PD at least made it exactly like Super Taikyu, there'd be no problem.
They had a chance to make all GR.4 cars rwd like GR.3. They just blew right by that opportunity.

 

[ScottPuss20]

View attachment 1090007

There could be other scales or specific hard-coded categories like Group B (maybe A will appear?), and Group X could remain as the un-classifiable like in GTS for things like Formula cars, karts, time attack cars, etc. Group X could also serve as an upper/lower limits overflow to the racing group scale if one is tuned or is naturally above or below the thresholds for Gr. 1-4, like the historic racing cars (too slow for Gr. 4) and if we’re given the option to modify Gr. 1 cars above their normal performance rating.

I'm seeing a few problems with the spec sheet. The Max Torque figure and the weight are too low. I think it's an error because if those figures are converted to metric, they'd be correct (1010 KG and 30 KG-FM of torque). I also hope that the Gr.4 allocation is an error because it doesn't deserve to be there, assuming that the categorisation works in the same way as GT Sport.

Edit: I actually think this footage was captured on an earlier build. Notice how the road cars in this video are allocated to an N class whilst the road cars in the release date trailer are not.

 

[Rangeraus]

My 2-star artist's impression (probably wrong) of an updated Apricot Hill track layout

 

[silverman_GT]

They finally added the 964-generation Carrera RS. I just can't stop staring at it.​

 

[EnzoRacer]

Why many of you want these old fantasy tracks? I prefer many new tracks but PD prefers to make new 1000 Scapes than to create new fantasy tracks or laser-scan real tracks.

 

[Warte]

Compared to the much newer machinery in Gr.4 it'll probably be about on par - it'll be destroyed by the cars in Gr.3.

DTM cars from 1993 are actually slower than modern day GT4 cars...

Go have a look at the pole time at the DTM round at Donington Park and compare it to the GT4 quali times from British GT.

Well, if PD wants to simulate correctly those cars, no.

Considering the tracks where the DTM raced in 1993-1996, just a few could be used for comparison, since most of them had layout changes or don't exist anymore. I ended up using Mugello and Interlagos (without any layout changes) and also Suzuka (that changed the Casio Chicane and Dunlop turn, so small variations in lap time could be disregarded). And remember, those cars were running with 1996 tires.

Mugello Pole laps

DTM 1996

1	5​	Nicola Larini	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	Martini Alfa Corse	1:47.732

12 Hours of Mugello 2021 [Poles for GT3 (Gr.3), GT4 and TCR (Gr.4)]

1 - GT3-AM - Equipe Verschuur - Renault RS01 - 1:45.551
1 - TCR - Red Camel-Jordans.nl - SEAT Cupra TCR DSG - 1:58.901
1 - GT4 - ST Racing - BMW M4 GT4 - 1:59.361



Suzuka Pole laps

DTM 1996

1	15​	Christian Danner	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	TV Spielfilm Alfa Corse	2:02.737

Suzuka 10 Hours 2019 (last one run before COVID, only GT3)

1	42​	Augusto Farfus	BMW Team Schnitzer	BMW M6 GT3	2:00.455​

Interlagos Pole laps

DTM 1996

1	15​	Christian Danner	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	TV Spielfilm Alfa Corse	1:32.631

4 Horas de Interlagos 2021 [Poles for GT3 (Gr.3) and GT4(Gr.4)]

GT3 - Ricardo Baptista/Cacá Bueno - Mercedes AMG GT3 Evo - 1:33:087
GT4 - Cássio Homem de Mello/ André Morais Jr - Mercedes AMG GT4 - 1:41:132


Placing the Alfa 155 V6 in Gr.4 is completely wrong, considering the discipline, pace, build and history where they belong, but also could break the class and its a poor game design IMHO.

I, like many others, defend that PD create Historic racing classes for those cars, instead of the mess that they are creating. I didn't even talk about Gr.X!!!!
You know what could kill two birds with one stone? A class with DTM 90's (Alfa 155, Mercedes C-Klass* and Opel Calibra*, instead of imploding Gr.4) and GT500 90's (Castrol Supra, Pennzoil Skyline and Honda NSX*, that will suffer and be useless if they ends in Modern Gr.2).
Let's call it Gr.2H, and recall Suzuka times:

DTM 1996

1	15​	Christian Danner	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	TV Spielfilm Alfa Corse	2:02.737

JGTC 1997, Suzuka 300km

1.

37

Masanori Sekiya (J) Toshio Suzuki (J)

Toyota Supra (JZA80)

Toyota Castrol Team

GT500

2:05,246

Much closer to adjust BOP and maintain the feeling of the class right? 2 seconds, instead of 10 plus...
Edit: In 1998, the Kunimitsu NSX clocked 2:02:939. Even closer!!

PS. Apricot Hill, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring and Trial Mountain? Goooooood. Keep them coming!!

 

[Imari]

I was excited to see some details of what gameplay features would be present for collectors, because that seems like something new and that isn't really present in any other similar games. Instead all we get is more talk about how they have lots of special cars and they're modelled to a high quality. Like, that's worth saying once but at the same time it's also entirely expected.

Yes Kaz, you have cars modelled to PS5 quality. You're releasing a game on the PS5, if you hadn't then that would be a massive red flag. That you think that this is worth bragging about is mildly odd.
Yes Kaz, 400 cars is a lot but it's not exactly groundbreaking in 2021 either. You're up against FM7 with 800+ and FH5 with 500+. You're not winning on sheer quantity.

Tell us more about what makes Gran Turismo 7 special and unique. So far I'm getting that it has cars and tracks, is on PS5 and the design is based around car culture. Car culture in 2021 is so broad that it could mean basically anything. The Fast and the Furious is car culture. Formula 1 is car culture. Goodwood and Pebble Beach are car culture. The Nurburgring is car culture.

Show me the amazing stuff that I should be excited to play in your game. So far the only "gameplay" that sticks in my mind is menus, which is very Gran Turismo but probably not the best thing to lead with. If you're going to make a trailer about collecting, show me gameplay that I as a collector will be excited about. Just saying "many cars, much pretty" is not good enough. You have a game. Show it to us. Show me why it's worth eighty of my dollars.

 

[dimassa19]

My 2-star artist's impression (probably wrong) of an updated Apricot Hill track layout

I think it's just a matter of perspective, where the object seems to change shape depending on the point of view.

But I'm in favor of adjustments, if necessary.

 

[Samus]

I was excited to see some details of what gameplay features would be present for collectors, because that seems like something new and that isn't really present in any other similar games. Instead all we get is more talk about how they have lots of special cars and they're modelled to a high quality. Like, that's worth saying once but at the same time it's also entirely expected.

Yes Kaz, you have cars modelled to PS5 quality. You're releasing a game on the PS5, if you hadn't then that would be a massive red flag. That you think that this is worth bragging about is mildly odd.
Yes Kaz, 400 cars is a lot but it's not exactly groundbreaking in 2021 either. You're up against FM7 with 800+ and FH5 with 500+. You're not winning on sheer quantity.

Tell us more about what makes Gran Turismo 7 special and unique. So far I'm getting that it has cars and tracks, is on PS5 and the design is based around car culture. Car culture in 2021 is so broad that it could mean basically anything. The Fast and the Furious is car culture. Formula 1 is car culture. Goodwood and Pebble Beach are car culture. The Nurburgring is car culture.

Show me the amazing stuff that I should be excited to play in your game. So far the only "gameplay" that sticks in my mind is menus, which is very Gran Turismo but probably not the best thing to lead with. If you're going to make a trailer about collecting, show me gameplay that I as a collector will be excited about. Just saying "many cars, much pretty" is not good enough. You have a game. Show it to us. Show me why it's worth eighty of my dollars.

Indeed. These videos so far seem to exist solely to tease cars and tracks in the background, what Kaz is saying is so short and empty that it's meaningless.

Which is fine, I'm glad they are actually getting into the 21st century and teasing cars and tracks in a better way than silhouettes on the creator's twitter, but we need some gameplay substance as well soon.

 

[DS87]

Real sad i can't open the glove box on these cars and put a bag of cheetos in there. I can in horizon 5

They need to spend time on that instead of adding more tracks and cars.



They have 12 thousand cars. So what if they look like they were slapped together in two days?

And who cares if it's still 5 months till gt7 releases ? I want to know what the entire game looks like because i'm an impatient jerk........

 

[Imari]

Real sad i can't open the glove box on these cars and put a bag of cheetos in there. I can in horizon 5

They need to spend time on that instead of adding more tracks and cars.



They have 12 thousand cars. So what if they look like they were slapped together in two days?

And who cares if it's still 5 months till gt7 releases ? I want to know what the entire game looks like because i'm an impatient jerk........

And apparently feel the need to insult others for having completely reasonable opinions on marketing campaigns...

 

[05XR8]

PD were damned because they showed nothing. Now they’re damned because they have showed someth8ng. They’re even more damned because they haven’t showed what we want.

I don’t care. I’m fine with the Porsche 964, 429 Mustang, ‘71 CSL, Alfa 155. Yes, there are five months to go, but if PD are going to pull the trigger with content, I agree, show some new features. Maybe they’ll do that between today and when the game downloads.
However, can’t blame people for calling him out with words we’ve heard before. Just because new players haven’t heard these words… uh, wait… think I’ve read where the players that have seen and done it before, have to just bare it for the sake of new players. All good then.

 

[linksracer]

Why many of you want these old fantasy tracks?

Simple answer to that one ... it hits people in the nostalgia bone.

I prefer many new tracks but PD prefers to make new 1000 Scapes than to create new fantasy tracks or laser-scan real tracks.

It's almost as if Scapes was a widely used feature of the game enjoyed by a lot of people.

I'd highly doubt the people involved with creating new Scapes are the same people involved with the creation of new fantasy tracks or laser scanning real tracks. And if you're concerned about funds allocation at PD then lets not forget that PD are backed by Sony financially, and the cameras used to capture Scapes is a Sony camera which I bet cost PD a grand total of nothing which leaves the travel costs and whatever time it takes to add a Scape to the game (which sounds pretty insignificant considering they added 1000 new ones). All in all, seems to me like the addition of new Scapes probably doesn't impact on PD's ability to create a new track.

Every time I see someone bring this whole "Why are they adding more Scapes instead of xyz" argument up, it absolutely wreaks of a player that used Scapes maybe 2 or 3 times total, decided it wasn't for them and moved on to other aspects of the game, which is fine, until they start complaining about the existence of Scapes taking away from aspects of the game they enjoy more which it highly likely doesn't.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Why many of you want these old fantasy tracks?

For many of us who have been playing since GT1-4, those older fantasy tracks are almost/just as iconic as some of the world’s highly regarded real life tracks like Spa-Francochamps and Nurburgring. We fondly remember driving and racing on those tracks just as we do of real races we’ve watched on TV.

 

[MidnightRun85]

I feel its time to have some Škodas in the game, they are collectibles too. But we cant have everything.

Some Tatras would go along well with this Alfa

Some Volvos would be nice too. Maybe an 850R? We need more wagons in the game...

 

[MidnightRun85]

Well, if PD wants to simulate correctly those cars, no.

Considering the tracks where the DTM raced in 1993-1996, just a few could be used for comparison, since most of them had layout changes or don't exist anymore. I ended up using Mugello and Interlagos (without any layout changes) and also Suzuka (that changed the Casio Chicane and Dunlop turn, so small variations in lap time could be disregarded). And remember, those cars were running with 1996 tires.

Mugello Pole laps

DTM 1996

1	5​	Nicola Larini	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	Martini Alfa Corse	1:47.732

12 Hours of Mugello 2021 [Poles for GT3 (Gr.3), GT4 and TCR (Gr.4)]

1 - GT3-AM - Equipe Verschuur - Renault RS01 - 1:45.551
1 - TCR - Red Camel-Jordans.nl - SEAT Cupra TCR DSG - 1:58.901
1 - GT4 - ST Racing - BMW M4 GT4 - 1:59.361



Suzuka Pole laps

DTM 1996

1	15​	Christian Danner	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	TV Spielfilm Alfa Corse	2:02.737

Suzuka 10 Hours 2019 (last one run before COVID, only GT3)

1	42​	Augusto Farfus	BMW Team Schnitzer	BMW M6 GT3	2:00.455​

Interlagos Pole laps

DTM 1996

1	15​	Christian Danner	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	TV Spielfilm Alfa Corse	1:32.631

4 Horas de Interlagos 2021 [Poles for GT3 (Gr.3) and GT4(Gr.4)]

GT3 - Ricardo Baptista/Cacá Bueno - Mercedes AMG GT3 Evo - 1:33:087
GT4 - Cássio Homem de Mello/ André Morais Jr - Mercedes AMG GT4 - 1:41:132


Placing the Alfa 155 V6 in Gr.4 is completely wrong, considering the discipline, pace, build and history where they belong, but also could break the class and its a poor game design IMHO.

I, like many others, defend that PD create Historic racing classes for those cars, instead of the mess that they are creating. I didn't even talk about Gr.X!!!!
You know what could kill two birds with one stone? A class with DTM 90's (Alfa 155, Mercedes C-Klass* and Opel Calibra*, instead of imploding Gr.4) and GT500 90's (Castrol Supra, Pennzoil Skyline and Honda NSX*, that will suffer and be useless if they ends in Modern Gr.2).
Let's call it Gr.2H, and recall Suzuka times:

DTM 1996

1	15​	Christian Danner	Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI	TV Spielfilm Alfa Corse	2:02.737

JGTC 1997, Suzuka 300km

1.

37

Masanori Sekiya (J) Toshio Suzuki (J)

Toyota Supra (JZA80)

Toyota Castrol Team

GT500

2:05,246

Much closer to adjust BOP and maintain the feeling of the class right? 2 seconds, instead of 10 plus...
Edit: In 1998, the Kunimitsu NSX clocked 2:02:939. Even closer!!

PS. Apricot Hill, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring and Trial Mountain? Goooooood. Keep them coming!!

I stand corrected! I was working off power/weight figures and the 155 slots nicely into Gr.4 (unless they've detuned it to fit into Gr.4??).