New idea for GT Academy 2014

[super_gt]

That's input device ( pedal ) and driver issues, if not, how Wolf can drive so quick with no ABS and high BB ( confirmed ) at current TT - NSX-R LM with comfort soft at Spa ? If this TT is used for GT Academy and ABS is forced off - but driver can change BB, it would be fun to see the usual alien using ABS 1 fighting against driver like Wolf.

GT Academy should have BB unlocked, so everyone is on level playing field ( use BB that suits them best ), brake balance is personal preference, not tuning that will make a car faster. PD is so silly to lock 5/5 BB both when using assist and not using it.

There is one guy with sports hard tires Suki_Akaso.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There is one guy with sports hard tires Suki_Akaso.

Yeah, some cheaters exploit the tire check, there's more than one driver who uses SH tire

 

[mustafur]

With standart Logitech DFGT pedals is impossible to brake with ABS-OFF.

No it isn't, it just requires a different brake set up and some finesse with the feel for it.

I have a DFGT, either way I think ABS should be fully allowed whilst ABS off is unrealistic.

 

[super_gt]

No it isn't, it just requires a different brake set up and some finesse with the feel for it.

I have a DFGT, either way I think ABS should be fully allowed whilst ABS off is unrealistic.

Why ABS-OFF is unrealistic?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No it isn't, it just requires a different brake set up and some finesse with the feel for it.

I have a DFGT, either way I think ABS should be fully allowed whilst ABS off is unrealistic.

You might want to read this thread :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/guide-so-you-want-to-drive-without-abs-please-read-op.267564/

Here is my guide for the non-ABS, made for the wheel users few months ago.

NON-ABS BRAKING part #1
GENERAL ADVICES

- Different tyre-compounds call for the slightly different Brake Balance. You will notice how there is a difference in values if you experiment with the Comfort and Sport compound. However, it goes into category of the fine-tuning so results through experimenting will come with the time

- *ABS* in GT5 is not representation of the real-life ABS, it just uses that "name". ABS in GT5 is some kind of permanent braking assist *override* that not only prevents wheel-lock, but also have some invisible traction-control that nullify the suspension-modelling and equalises unique characteristics of the vehicles resulting with ability to turn while braking and never loose grip

- when ABS is OFF many cars will just go to snap-oversteer once the brakes are applied in full. You must never brake with full-constant power - you would never brake like that in the real-life too. In order to get maximum for your braking, you have to learn to brake is *sequences* - press/release/press/release/press/release/etc.

- you have to reconsider everything you know about braking-points and configurations for every track. With ABS off, suspension modelling becomes "free" and suddenly all elevations (lateral and longitudinal) of the surface becomes major factor in the driving. The sensation is vastly different than with ABS ON, so be prepared to revise everything you've learned to that point.

- all FR/MR/RR cars - being road or racing - have to be set with front bias noticeably stronger than rear. Through my testing I still haven't found any single FR/MR/RR car that calls for BB of the rear-brakes stronger than 2. To be honest, majority needs only 1. The key is to find proper front-strength with rear-one adjusted to point where rear brakes does not lock the rear-axle. You will know the point where rear-axle is not compromised once the car does not launch itself into snap-oversteer when braking. Once you set the rear-strength and bypass axle-lockup, you may fell that car is not stopping properly as it should. From that point, you have to force the front strength of braking until you find desired power.

On the above note, one of my last tests gave me 6/1 bias for the Ford Mark IV Race Car '67 where I needed 6/1 for proper balance of the stopping power.

NON ABS BRAKING Part #2
HOW TO MAKE NON-ABS BRAKING ACTUALLY WORK IN PRAXIS

This one have few steps.

Step A > The Mighty Sponge Ball™

Brake-pedals on all of the middle-prices wheels - Logitech DFP, DFGT, etc.. - are too loose and too soft to produce a usable sensitivity of travel in order to cope with the non-ABS braking. However, for there is a solution for that problem: The Mighty Sponge Ball™



Solution is simple: just insert the sponge under the brake and you're ready to go. Sponge will allow you to dose the actual brake-power more subtly and to actually have control of the brake-travel.

Of course, any hard-sponged material will do even better than simple sponge ball, especially high-density sponges, like neoprene for example. Once you've settled the step A) it is time for step B.

Step B > The Brake Balance Adjustment ™ - The Key to Master the non-ABS Braking

In order to achieve maximum performance and feel out of the GT5 physics engine and wheel support, you have to manually tweak few options in the game and accept few issues. First, you should go to the wheel option and set the steering to Simulation (although it affects only 270-wheels, but it is no-brainer, so just do it) and turn the Power Steering to OFF.

As for accepting issues, there is one thing you have to get use to when going into the universe of the non-ABS braking: you have to manually dial the ABS to OFF for the every car prior to the race in the Race Settings menu (unfortunately, you can't do it in the Settings menu in the Garage for the car of your choice). Once done, you're ready for the most important thing: The Brake Balance Adjustment ™

By default, every car in GT5 comes with Brake Balance set to 5/5 (front/rear). With ABS OFF and the default 5/5 value, there is no way you can properly drive the car, because that default value is messing the complete balance of the suspension and produces practically undrivable car. So, you have to manually adjust the Brake Balance for the every car you wish to use with ABS OFF.

General idea about adjust the Brake Balance comes form basic presumption of weight-distribution behaviour while braking: when you brake, the central mass of the vehicle and inertia moves from the back to the front. Thus all cars in real life have bigger and stronger brakes on the front-wheels and GT5 utilises the same logic. In order to adjust the BB, you have to re-distribute the BB values towards front. But before going onto that, one explanation.

Although Gran Turismo 5 uses the name of ABS (Anti Brake-Lock System) for that particular assist, I personally do not find it as representation/simulation of the actual ABS. I think it is nothing more than basic braking-assist which *overrides* the intertia-momentum on suspension and nullify the wheel-lock. Even ABS1 is too effective in what it does, so I do not find any mean in having the option to set it up to 10 (which game allows), so basically it is *ABS* just by name. I see it as nothing else but basic brake assist tool. Now back to BB setting.

Every car BB is different, but there is some generalisation possible. FR, RR and MR cars will all benefit from the higher setting towards the front. For example, I mainly use 3/1 setting for majority of my road FR, RR and MR cars. Of course, there are exceptions like Ferrari F40 where sheer mass of the vehicle asks for higher setting in the front in order to achieve proper distribution of the weight and stop the rear-axle from going into oversteer because of the insufficient braking-power on the front wheels > so for the F40 I use 5/1 setting for example and for F430 4/1 (I also use 4/1 for SLS, LFA, M3 and similar vehicles).

**notice: after the new suspension model introduced by 2.07 "Academy" update, the rear-axle balance is always best to keep in "1". If on "2", it will lock the rear-brakes too much, thus "1" is the only proper balance.

Actual weight of the vehicle makes a lot of difference too. Ferrari 599 calls for the 5/1 setting (Sport Hard tyres) because of the weight, while stock Corvette ZR-1 C6 RM - you mentioned it in your post - calls for 6/1 balance in order to achieve stability and efficiency of braking.

For FF and 4WD cars I generally use 3/2 or 4/3 setting in order to combat understeer on the front-wheels. GT does not take pad-size into concern (check the SHIRAKAWA Akira's elaborate [URL='https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6383809#post6383809']here

), but in order to combat understeer and lockup on FF and 4WD cars I tend to *equalize* the pressure on the front-axle by minimizing the deistribution of the braking-balance from the front wheels and force the rear-axle oversteer in order to have natural entry to the apex.

PLEASE NOTICE that I use Fanatec CSP pedals and values I've described are made with that in focus. Many of my friends who use Logitech G25/27 are using slightly lower settings (where I use 4/1 they use 3/1, etc..) because the threshold of the actual brake-sets is different for every manufacturer. Experimenting is the key.

Another thing becomes important when advanced settings comes into perspective: such as having Tire Wear ON, or driving on the wet surfaces with changeable weather/track conditions. To cut it short, the RA Adjust Functions (that in-race screen you can call-in and adjust some setting on the fly in the real-time with either Manetino-wheel on your DFGT or button-combination on the other wheels) becomes very important during the advanced races, because the tire-heat and degradation can call for altering the BB, as well as the wet surfaces. However, you will come to the appropriate conclusions by yourself through experimenting during time.

Small notice is how settings adjusted through RAMenu menu does not *stay* on the car through the venues if you quit the race before the end. So if you changed the settings during your Free Time run in online-lounge fro example, you will not have them applied once the race starts > values are set to those in main car-Settings menu. So if you come to the better solution through RAMenu during the Free race, you will have to alter them again through RAMenu once the race starts if you didn't changed them in the Settings menu.

Of course, GT5 now offers option to save multiple Settings (A/B/C, in the Settings menu), so you can manually set the ABS OFF setting for every car in one of the "Sheets" - under the B for example - in order to use it when you like. Notice how another issue is that you have to first set the desired Setting Sheet (B for example), than go to Race Options and set ABS to OFF, and than come back to settings and apply the proper BB settings. That is because once you set the ABS to OFF in the Race Option settings (where "A Settings Sheet" is always default one), it stays like that for the particular car everywhere you go with it (including online). If you opt for ABS OFF in the default "A Settings Sheet" so you will have to manually re-set it to 1 every time you want to race the car with the ABS ON. A bit confusing, but once you get used to it, it becomes just another Gran Turismo Player Masochistic Routine™.


NON-ABS BRAKING part #3
Step C >Every Car Becomes Unique Without ABS™

I know that all above probably sounds complicating, but in fact it is not. Once you install the The Mighty Sponge Ball™ (for users of wheels that needs one) and get used to the logic of the Brake Balance settings, the new world opens. Once you disengage the braking-assist (one we call the ABS for reasons of commodity and easier perception for the casual players) you will finally get the proper feeling of the unique physics of the every car.

Disengaging the brake-assist and diving into the world of proper Brake Balance settings will enhance the unique "characteristics sensation" for every vehicle and make it even more *recognisable*. Once you begin to utilise the correct BB settings, you will be able to actually feel the pavement-ripping torque of the F40, the feel of the Aventador's mass decelerating while eating the front tires or difference between the braking-characteristics of all GT500 cars which pretty much handles inside the same handicap while ABS is turned on.

Take your time and test on the low-powered cars for start, preferably on Tsukuba and than moving to the Trial Mountain. Mazdas MX-5/RX-7 are great for FR cars basics, and once you master them you can move to the MR class with the F430 as the best car for that task. Of course, test all of them with their default tires in order to develop the feel for the actual tire-threshold and BB values you need to apply.

Good luck and I hope you'll have the great time once you indulge yourself into this beautiful universe.

[/URL]

 

[mustafur]

From experience 2-0 brake bias works best for me speed wise, i just repeatidly press handbrake as like a manual rear brake and works fine.

 

[Youngun]

I do think that everything should be OFF. I tried off and yes i didn't get up there to the top 32, but in terms of same setting, must of been ok. Same with TTs that use steering assists.

 

[KONTRAone]

this thread is ridiculous xD you folks claim to want more realism, but how many 1400kg road cars have you seen without ABS? besides, in every racing series there is a unique set of rules and regulations that everyone must follow and GT academy is no different. everyone is given a common goal and everyone gets the same tools to accomplish that goal. it really is that simple...

I do think that everything should be OFF. I tried off and yes i didn't get up there to the top 32, but in terms of same setting, must of been ok. Same with TTs that use steering assists.

whoawhoawhoa, you cannot just compare ABS to steering assist. the ABS in GT merely replicates the function of it's real-life counterpart, which is to prevent the brakes from locking up under excessive pressures (and is essential on a road car IMO.) steering assist, on the other hand, completely modifies your steering input (thereby nullifying actual skills) and has NO real-life counterpart...

if the time trials involved a race car of some sort then i might have sided with you folks on this one, but this seems more like an attempt to discredit those in the finals and on top of the leaderboards and quite frankly i'm offended

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Read Amar post about GT's ABS, it's a simple brake assist, it does not simulate real life ABS at all

 

[vtecRacer29]

Read Amar post about GT's ABS, it's a simple brake assist, it does not simulate real life ABS at all

How do you apply for the 2014 I cannot find any info anywhere. thank you

 

[iamsupernasty]

How do you apply for the 2014 I cannot find any info anywhere. thank you

As far as I know, nothing official has been announced for 2014 yet.

 

[Ujack64]

I suggest anyone who wants to qualify for the finals of GT Academy to turn off all aids including ABS.
The difference between ABS-1 and ABS-off is huge.
I like challenges what about you?

 

[solidboss07]

I though GT6's default ABS1 was like real life, and any incremental increases up to 10 acted like an increased crutch/driver aid?

 

[Green]

I though GT6's default ABS1 was like real life, and any incremental increases up to 10 acted like an increased crutch/driver aid?

Could be wrong but I was under the impression when you full brake with abs on in real life the abs unlocks (allows the wheels to rotate enough to get the grip back) the wheels as they lock up that's why you get that shuddering effect through the brake pedal. Where as in GT they just don't lock up with abs on.

The problem is how can you disallow an aid which is used in the GT Academy cars in real life, maybe if it was a single seater TT I could see the reasoning behind running no abs/aids only. I get the feeling that some people would rather just have it switched off, because the aid isn't a realistic as they would like but running road cars with no abs isn't really realistic either.

 

[solidboss07]

I know how ABS works, I drive. How would they convey that through an analogue stick. GT with ABS1 - no lock ups. Real life - no lock ups. For how I play Gran Turismo there has been no real issue.

As for turning it of in GT. You crazy people.

 

[Green]

Yeah I don't see the issue either.

 

[super_gt]

Now in GT6 time trials peoples drive with skid recovery force-on.
When you go to GT Academy final and get in real car do not forget to turn on SRF!

 

[Ujack64]

I suggest anyone who wants to qualify for the finals of GT Academy to turn off all aids including ABS.
The difference between ABS-1 and ABS-off is huge.
I like challenges what about you?

I agree the concept is great....but the TV show simply blows. I have really tried, and with each episode I cringe. The entire style judge concept baffles me. This is racing, not figure skating. Being voted off the "Survivor Island" race camp is not racing. Let them race head to head in several race catigories. Not jump through tires, ride a friggin bicycle and have someone chase you with a paintball gun. OMG!

As for the judges. Shame on you for going for the $ and losing your race cred in the process. Especially you, my former hero, Mr "Spin to Win", Danny Sullivan. I just pray Marrio doesn't fall into this same race hero hell hole.

If you want to drift, go hang out with the low riders and the trailer queens at the car show. I'm here to race.

 

[Youngun]

I agree the concept is great....but the TV show simply blows. I have really tried, and with each episode I cringe. The entire style judge concept baffles me. This is racing, not figure skating. Being voted off the "Survivor Island" race camp is not racing. Let them race head to head in several race catigories. Not jump through tires, ride a friggin bicycle and have someone chase you with a paintball gun. OMG!

As for the judges. Shame on you for going for the $ and losing your race cred in the process. Especially you, my former hero, Mr "Spin to Win", Danny Sullivan. I just pray Marrio doesn't fall into this same race hero hell hole.

If you want to drift, go hang out with the low riders and the trailer queens at the car show. I'm here to race.

Well to be a driver, you need to be fit. As "insert name her" says in his thread after winning GTA this year, He spends a lot of tim in the gym. If you can't do simple circuits and runs, how could one cope in a endurance race

 

[BanditKarter22]

Well to be a driver, you need to be fit. As "insert name her" says in his thread after winning GTA this year, He spends a lot of tim in the gym. If you can't do simple circuits and runs, how could one cope in a endurance race

You don't need to be as fit as I am, but if you're in reasonable shape it won't do your chances any harm, and it'll show them that you've really worked a lot for the competition and you really want to win 👍

 

[Ujack64]

Well to be a driver, you need to be fit. As "insert name her" says in his thread after winning GTA this year, He spends a lot of tim in the gym. If you can't do simple circuits and runs, how could one cope in a endurance race

Fitness will show up on the racetrack. How many times have we seen busted up drivers go on to place in real racing? Chuck Yeager had a broken cholarbone when he broke the sound berrier. None of these guys would stand a chance in that aweful show. And what about the paintball gun? Or being in the pit crew? The days of AJ Foyt ripping the wrench out of the crew member's hand and working on the car himself, are long gone. Do you think Vettle has a Snappon Kit in his garage? Doubt it.

 

[Doodle]

You don't need to be as fit as I am, but if you're in reasonable shape it won't do your chances any harm, and it'll show them that you've really worked a lot for the competition and you really want to win 👍

Yeah, I'm not even close to your kind of fitness level.

 

[BanditKarter22]

Yeah, I'm not even close to your kind of fitness level.

If you enjoy it though then there's no reason not to do it You don't want to be out of shape because that might stop you winning, but if you're not the fittest there it doesn't matter as it's something you can work on and develop. You can't teach someone to drive fast.

 

[Doodle]

And thankfully I have plenty of time to get in shape!

 

[Izzyracer97]

I hope they force aids off. It is a fact that drivers who run with aids are fools and think that they are fast. Only purists like myself should be aloud to compete in the GTAcademy finals

 

[Youngun]

That could cut the wheat from the chaf, anybody know if the GTA winners used aids? Even driving line.....

 

[gm matthew]

I hope they force aids off. It is a fact that drivers who run with aids are fools and think that they are fast. Only purists like myself should be aloud to compete in the GTAcademy finals

You're basically condemning almost every driver that is fast enough to qualify for regional finals.

It takes a lot of skill to qualify for GT Academy regional finals, even without having to threshold brake for each corner, and condemning the guys at the top of the leaderboard just because they're using ABS just sounds like you're making excuses.

In a perfect situation, having ABS turned on would make the car slower than with ABS turned off, that way the fast guys would turn the ABS off to achieve the best lap times. As it is, having ABS turned on makes the car faster so nearly everybody uses it.

Ultimately, the guys at the top are trying to qualify, and if that means using aids then they'll do it. If you refuse to use ABS, that's fine, and if you want to complain to Sony/PD/Nissan, that's fine too, but please don't call us all fools.

That could cut the wheat from the chaf, anybody know if the GTA winners used aids? Even driving line.....

Pretty much all of the quick guys have all of the aids other than ABS turned off. In the case of driving line, a few might use it to make finding reference points a bit easier, but none of the quick guys actually follow it. (For what it's worth, I don't use it at all.)

 

[BanditKarter22]

You're basically condemning almost every driver that is fast enough to qualify for regional finals.

It takes a lot of skill to qualify for GT Academy regional finals, even without having to threshold brake for each corner, and condemning the guys at the top of the leaderboard just because they're using ABS just sounds like you're making excuses.

In a perfect situation, having ABS turned on would make the car slower than with ABS turned off, that way the fast guys would turn the ABS off to achieve the best lap times. As it is, having ABS turned on makes the car faster so nearly everybody uses it.

Ultimately, the guys at the top are trying to qualify, and if that means using aids then they'll do it. If you refuse to use ABS, that's fine, and if you want to complain to Sony/PD/Nissan, that's fine too, but please don't call us all fools.



Pretty much all of the quick guys have all of the aids other than ABS turned off. In the case of driving line, a few might use it to make finding reference points a bit easier, but none of the quick guys actually follow it. (For what it's worth, I don't use it at all.)

Thanks for replying to them, I was just about to start writing a reply when you posted this! 👍
I believe you'll be one of the favourites for GT Academy in the UK this year, so good luck

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Having ABS/brake assist on do not make the car faster, it only helps the driver to hit their limit easier and more consistently, they have less to worry about when braking which is locking up. A really good driver would be as quick on ABS 0 as well as on ABS 1. If I were Nissan decision maker, I would not allow any assist, so I can get finalist who can hit their limit consistently purely on their own skill set and determination.

 

[Izzyracer97]

You're basically condemning almost every driver that is fast enough to qualify for regional finals.

It takes a lot of skill to qualify for GT Academy regional finals, even without having to threshold brake for each corner, and condemning the guys at the top of the leaderboard just because they're using ABS just sounds like you're making excuses.

In a perfect situation, having ABS turned on would make the car slower than with ABS turned off, that way the fast guys would turn the ABS off to achieve the best lap times. As it is, having ABS turned on makes the car faster so nearly everybody uses it.

Ultimately, the guys at the top are trying to qualify, and if that means using aids then they'll do it. If you refuse to use ABS, that's fine, and if you want to complain to Sony/PD/Nissan, that's fine too, but please don't call us all fools.



Pretty much all of the quick guys have all of the aids other than ABS turned off. In the case of driving line, a few might use it to make finding reference points a bit easier, but none of the quick guys actually follow it. (For what it's worth, I don't use it at all.)

the fastest guy does not use any aids if you look and why would you say aids would make you slower and it does except abs because we all know PD logic