NEW INFO: Track Time-Syncing, Randomly Generated Rally Career, Custom Soundtrack...

[finnracer]

He is saying that the Standard cars are inferior to the prologue ones, not the Premiums!

 

[SavageWhiteDude]

I really feel proud at this very moment.

I wanted rain and snow in Gran Turismo 5 so very, very much that I got extremely motivated to do something about it. I really, REALLY got on my soapbox about the weather effects after I heard Kaz say that they were toying with the idea of implementing them [and that was over a year and a half ago and I'm sure that the work on the weather system predates even that ].

I made a huge thread about it - and I even made sure that all of my comments on news articles at GTPlanet were "Weather System related" at some point - just in case the talented team at Polyphony Digital may see them and decide that it is a necessary element to include in GT5 - which apparently, it was. 👍

On a side note, I have tinted windows on my car, so I welcome any vehicle with tinted windows! Bring on the standard vehicles!

*[Just so long as the Bugatti Veyron is a Premium model ]

I just wonder how many major decisions about GT5 were influenced by the message boards and how much of it was just a calculated decision on their part that happens to fit with what we have been asking for. I know they follow the online community closely but it would be neat to know what, if anything, we've helped influence with the game.

 

[Beat the Beat]

He is saying that the Standard cars are inferior to the prologue ones, not the Premiums!

At this point I think the debate about Standard quality will still be raging on years after the game is released.

 

[Owen.C93]

I just wonder how many major decisions about GT5 were influenced by the message boards and how much of it was just a calculated decision on their part that happens to fit with what we have been asking for. I know they follow the online community closely but it would be neat to know what, if anything, we've helped influence with the game.

Looking through this you can't deny the resemblance.

 

[warp9engage]

Uh?

I thought I heard that the GT5 premium cars will be a lot more detailed than the GT5P premiums, therefore it is very possible that the GT5 standards will be as detailed as or better than the GT5P premiums.

Yet another reason GT5P is a lame demo to me. Hell, it isn't even a demo version!

The reason why I say I don't believe that Standard Cars will look as good as even the Prologue cars is because stating that the quality level of the two types is identical, would imply that both have modelled interiors. Which the Standards don't. This and, of course, the video and screenshots we've got of Standards so far contribute to me being somewhat sckeptical about some of this article.

I hope for the best... but expect the worst.

 

[eSZee]

Uh?

I thought I heard that the GT5 premium cars will be a lot more detailed than the GT5P premiums, therefore it is very possible that the GT5 standards will be as detailed as or better than the GT5P premiums.

Yet another reason GT5P is a lame demo to me. Hell, it isn't even a demo version!

No. It's ridiculous to think that.

 

[Ja5on]

love the idea of the dynamic weather and time

 

[White & Nerdy]

No. It's ridiculous to think that.

Feh, whatever. I really hope they can ship the game soon so we can get rid of all this misinformation...

 

[Devedander]

Uh?

I thought I heard that the GT5 premium cars will be a lot more detailed than the GT5P premiums, therefore it is very possible that the GT5 standards will be as detailed as or better than the GT5P premiums.

Yet another reason GT5P is a lame demo to me. Hell, it isn't even a demo version!

The only way the statement that standards will look better is if they excercise the subjectiveness of the statement to it's extremes.

"Looks better" might refer to a better lighting engine in GT5 than GT5P or GT5 running at a higher resolution thus calling those edges what makes the cars look better.

In reality those car models are far inferior at their foundations to premium car models and are essentially GT4 assets shoved into a GT5 lighting engine at high resolution. Note that neither lighting nor resolution increases base model poly count.

Saying they will look better than GT5P cars in my book can only be marketing or an honest mistake. I lean towards marketing in that they tell you it will be, the masses believe it, and then they find a way to make it true in their eyes when the product comes out making it very hard for reason to help them see the truth.

It's like when a political campaign says "this guy spends so much money on this and that" even if it's totally not true, you will have a hard time getting people who believed it to see through the lie.

At best I can see standard cars potentially looking shinier at a distance and prettier due to reflections and lighting at range than GT5P cars (and that's a big maybe because from the GT5 demo I haven't seen massive improvements to the lighting engine), but at close range or under inspection I don't believe for a second they will hold up let alone surpass GT5P overall.

As for GT5 premiums being way better than GT5P cars? Nothing from the current demo has lead me to believe that...

I think the hype of premium cars being better than GT5P and the standard cars being better is just a case of trying to make it true by saying it enough times. And it seems to be working on some people...

 

[TheIshter]

No. It's ridiculous to think that.

Why not? Assuming the cockpit view isn't judged, there's no reason why that statement wouldn't be true.

 

[Strittan]

Why not? Assuming the cockpit view isn't judged, there's no reason why that statement wouldn't be true.

OMG, not this again!

Standard cars are GT4 models carried over to GT5. They have the same low poly count as in GT4 and doesn't have an interior. It has been said that they will feature minor damage and become dirty though.

This has all been proven many times in another thread. It makes perfect sense as well, because when you think about it, there is no way PD could model 1000 cars to the same level of detail as the premium cars.

 

[TheIshter]

OMG, not this again!

Standard cars are GT4 models carried over to GT5. They have the same low poly count as in GT4 and doesn't have an interior. It has been said that they will feature minor damage and become dirty though.

This has all been proven many times in another thread. It makes perfect sense as well, because when you think about it, there is no way PD could model 1000 cars to the same level of detail as the premium cars.

There's also a post I've seen where it's stated that each of these cars have a very high polygon count model stored away. They're NOT taking the models from GT4 and increasing the poly count. When PD decides to create a game, they take these models and downgrade them to the point where the system can render them without sacrificing framerate. It's a well known process in the world of digital modeling.

For example, creating a PSP game, they take the high poly models and downgrade them to run on the PSP (meaning lessening the poly count for the PSP to handle).

This process saves time. And so when they create GT6, they're going to take the 700 high poly models and 250 cockpit high poly models and downgrade them to a point where PS3 (or PS4) can handle the poly count.

Unfortunately, I forgot where this post was and can't site it.

 

[Strittan]

There's also a post I've seen where it's stated that each of these cars have a very high polygon count model stored away. They're NOT taking the models from GT4 and increasing the poly count. When PD decides to create a game, they take these models and downgrade them to the point where the system can render them without sacrificing framerate. It's a well known process in the world of digital modeling.

Then why are all the standard cars we've seen so far of the same poly count as in GT4?

 

[TheIshter]

Then why are all the standard cars we've seen so far of the same poly count as in GT4?

Enlighten me with the actual documents that state the polygon count being the same.

 

[Strittan]

Enlighten me with the actual documents that state the polygon count being the same.

There are no actual documents stating that. But there has been numerous comparisons between standard cars and GT4 cars, and they look exactly as low-poly as the GT4 cars.

 

[TheIshter]

There are no actual documents stating that. But there has been numerous comparisons between standard cars and GT4 cars, and they look exactly as low-poly as the GT4 cars.

Unless you have 1080p lossless video of both footage from GT4 and GT5 standard, there's absolutely no argument.

If you're willing to compare compressed videos of trailers to justify that conclusion, then I'm not even going to acknowledge your statements legitimate.

 

[DeolTheBeast]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but does this mean if it's 3am where I live, and I boot GT5 up, the Nurburgring would be at "3am" also ingame?

 

[airjoker88]

There's also a post I've seen where it's stated that each of these cars have a very high polygon count model stored away. They're NOT taking the models from GT4 and increasing the poly count. When PD decides to create a game, they take these models and downgrade them to the point where the system can render them without sacrificing framerate. It's a well known process in the world of digital modeling.

For example, creating a PSP game, they take the high poly models and downgrade them to run on the PSP (meaning lessening the poly count for the PSP to handle).

This process saves time. And so when they create GT6, they're going to take the 700 high poly models and 250 cockpit high poly models and downgrade them to a point where PS3 (or PS4) can handle the poly count.

Unfortunately, I forgot where this post was and can't site it.

Tis true. When creating assets for videogames, the modeler creates a high poly (which can consist of any number of polys). Then they build a low poly that maintains the same silhouette as the high poly because the highpolys "skin"(if you will), will be projected on to the low poly, which in turn gives you what you see in game.

Currently attending school for this

 

[Strittan]

Unless you have 1080p lossless video of both footage from GT4 and GT5 standard, there's absolutely no argument.

If you're willing to compare compressed videos of trailers to justify that conclusion, then I'm not even going to acknowledge your statements legitimate.

It's obvious to me but if you wanna turn a blind eye to it, that's your problem. I'm perfectly fine with 200+ plus premium cars. If I'm wrong about all this though (which I seriously doubt I am) it would just be a nice surprise.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Unless you have 1080p lossless video of both footage from GT4 and GT5 standard, there's absolutely no argument.

If you're willing to compare compressed videos of trailers to justify that conclusion, then I'm not even going to acknowledge your statements legitimate.

Can we keep this boundless optimism around for when the game comes out, and you're still wrong?

It's been gone over hundreds and hundreds of times. If they had GT5P-quality models of GT4 cars, that they just stored away until PS3... well, according to the time it takes them to make Prologue-quality models, they wouldn't have enough. And considering that the very basic way they're made is different, the statement does smell of marketing spin.

It's amazing how people actively agreed, on both sides of the Standard debate, that reasonably, at the current level of detail in Premiums, that the 1000 car count could never comprise solely of them. We all agreed there. Yet one review mentions how Standards could suddenly be Prologue-beating, and people are willing to ignore everything previously known to believe that? With absolutely no proof?

You can't lead the blind...

 

[B13POS]

Hey. This isn't the Standard vs. Premium thread.

 

[Strittan]

Hey. This isn't the Standard vs. Premium thread.

You're right.

Sorry, but just wanted to clear things up (as if I believe it's ever gonna be cleared up before the game is released).

 

[TheIshter]

It's amazing how people actively agreed, on both sides of the Standard debate, that reasonably, at the current level of detail in Premiums, that the 1000 car count could never comprise solely of them. We all agreed there. Yet one review mentions how Standards could suddenly be Prologue-beating, and people are willing to ignore everything previously known to believe that?

I haven't read the discussions of this before. Why is it so wrong to take one side of an argument? If my thought processes tell me that one side of the argument seems more plausible, I'll stand by my opinion.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4417/2dw6r7a.jpg[/IMG

It's obvious to me but if you wanna turn a [B]blind eye to it[/B], that's your problem. I'm perfectly fine with 200+ plus premium cars. If I'm wrong about all this though (which I seriously doubt I am) it would just be a nice surprise.[/QUOTE]

I'm just going for the Devil's Advocate because I think it's a bit more plausible. I'm not turning a blind eye to the fact, but it's difficult for me to judge something that has so many variables that aren't constant. That's why I want either the exact poly count numbers or two videos that have as little irrelevant constants as possible.

Like compressed videos, pictures can also be compressed. I'm only being skeptical for the sake of having an accurate conclusion. Don't beat me up for it. I don't have a problem either if you're correct with this polygon count argument.

 

[jcmc]

I thought of that possibility many times. One way of doing this is to first change the way we reverse the cars. Instead of using triangle, just use the L2 button to put the car in reverse gear. Leaving the triangle button for the ignition.

So take off the facia buttons a function that gamers will use semi frequently in a session for one they will use once. Genius.

 

[zevehcj]

So take off the facia buttons a function that gamers will use semi frequently in a session for one they will use once. Genius.

When did I mention removing a function? Please read my post again. I suggested using the L2 button to shift the car into reverse (like in ToCA Race Driver 3). Also, having an extra button can be used for other functions as well. Like turning on the windshield wipers, horn, lights etc.

 

[Devedander]

I haven't read the discussions of this before. Why is it so wrong to take one side of an argument? If my thought processes tell me that one side of the argument seems more plausible, I'll stand by my opinion.



I'm just going for the Devil's Advocate because I think it's a bit more plausible. I'm not turning a blind eye to the fact, but it's difficult for me to judge something that has so many variables that aren't constant. That's why I want either the exact poly count numbers or two videos that have as little irrelevant constants as possible.

Like compressed videos, pictures can also be compressed. I'm only being skeptical for the sake of having an accurate conclusion. Don't beat me up for it. I don't have a problem either if you're correct with this polygon count argument.

Don't you just love it when some new guy jumps in and thinks he must have the angle no one else (even after hundreds of pages of back and forth) had? And how he knows how it works and that PD has some secret cache of high res models they just keep dumbing down and dolling out?

I personally find the "compressed video" dislcaimers to be the most entertaining... it's clear that those using the term don't understand what it really means or how it works or they would realize that in this situation with the images we are using, if anything it would make it HARDER to tell the cars were low poly as it would actually obfuscate the rough corners that give them away...

Oh and BTW, Kaz himself cleared this all up a long time ago:

[Yamauchi] proudly announces over 1000 cars for the game but it's with a degree of resignation as only 200 of them are new models for Gran Turismo 5. "There are actually going to be two types of cars included in the game," he says. "We have over 800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP upscaled for the graphics engine of the PS3, and 200 premium cars."
"We set a high objective for the number of cars," Yamauchi continues. "We realised we couldn't work that way as it takes too long - we could have ended up waiting until PS4." So there will be no more delays? "No," he says, "no more delays."

What you have heard about high res model from GT4 is about the fact that for GT4 they modeled the cars to a higher resolution than the game engine could handle rendering in game on a PS2. These models were what you see in photomode, not some super high poly model set that PD has saved up somewhere.

Think about it... if they had all the cars already in better than GT5P detail, why would we have standards at all?

The problem here, theishter, is that you have come here short on information and long on assumption and incorrect logic.

Here, knock yourself out:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128481

 

[TheIshter]

Don't you just love it when some new guy jumps in and thinks he must have the angle no one else (even after hundreds of pages of back and forth) didn't have?

"I might just shoot down his self-esteem before I can easily show him the thread will all the information he needs to end this argument".

Thanks, I'll have a read on the massive thread. Stay offended, veteran.

 

[Devedander]

"I might just shoot down his self-esteem before I can easily show him the thread will all the information he needs to end this argument".

Thanks, I'll have a read on the massive thread. Stay offended, veteran.

Sorry buddy... you come in all half cocked and oversure and you make your own bed. Self esteem and cockiness in the lack of logical thought and research are what got you into that position.

 

[TheIshter]

Sorry buddy... you come in all half cocked and oversure and you make your own bed.

I guess my statements come as hostile and aggressive since I usually don't use the smilies in debates. Apologies.

 

[Devedander]

I guess my statements come as hostile and aggressive since I usually don't use the smilies in debates. Apologies.

Nah... it's more the telling those who have obviously been around for a while how you know how it works and they don't and putting unreasonable demands on the proof presented.

Don't worry, you're not the first...