NFS Shift 2 Unleashed - Details

  • Thread starter LittleLefty
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Ohhh it would be great if EA put some kind of notice message that shows you who is using PRO mode and who uses Hard !!!

I've read on another forum that in on-line races if you chose PRO against Hard mode you had disadvantage because of Handicap in Hard. So in most case you loose races and never can't really tell on what mode was your opponent.
 
:sly::sly::sly:👍

GT5 "the real racing simulator"

It isnt really btw! Far far far from it! :)

Im very disapointed with GT5 and had a lot of fun with Shift 1 but that doesnt mean that I have to be blind to some bad details that could make IMO the game even better.

...and get your facts right GT5 never claimed to be «the real racing simulator» its the «real DRIVING simulator» , well at least thats whats written in my game... but maybe you have a special edition or something...
 
Im very disapointed with GT5 and had a lot of fun with Shift 1 but that doesnt mean that I have to be blind to some bad details that could make IMO the game even better.

...and get your facts right GT5 never claimed to be «the real racing simulator» its the «real DRIVING simulator» , well at least thats whats written in my game... but maybe you have a special edition or something...

Oh aye, after the old firm tonight i have had many many beers and vodkas

Will i really cant complain are the real driving simulator as the driving is supreme, i guess it's a personal wish PD could come up with a racing game.
 
Everyone has it's own vision of a simulator
Hmm, maybe yes maybe no. We should ask ourselfs what a simulator is? A sim is a software who try to reproduce an accurate physic, the most important thing, graphic could not be perfect but the way the car react is (almost) everything. The best sim available in the market is iRacing, that is "the real racing simulator" all other products need, in some way, to be compared with. So GT5 is not iRacing but it represent a good level for ps3. Shift 1 could have a better sound, could be fun for some users (why not?) but it's not at GT5 level in sense of car handling feeling and response. Let's see this Shift 2 "elite mode" what can brings, if car handling is going to feel good then Helmet cam and all those new features could be nice surplus able to elevate the product quality. But we need bread and butter things first (to categorize it as a "sim". Other way it could be an amazing arcade game for arcade fans).
 
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Hmm, maybe yes maybe no. We should ask ourselfs what a simulator is? A sim is a software who try to reproduce an accurate physic, the most important thing, graphic could not be perfect but the way the car react is (almost) everything. The best sim available in the market is iRacing, that is "the real racing simulator" all other products need, in some way, to be compared with. So GT5 is not iRacing but it represent a good level for ps3. Shift 1 could have a better sound, could be fun for some users (why not?) but it's not at GT5 level in sense of car handling feeling and response. Let's see this Shift 2 "elite mode" what can brings, if car handling is going to feel good then Helmet cam and all those new features could be nice surplus able to elevate the product quality. But we need bread and butter things first (to categorize it as a "sim". Either way it could be an amazing arcade game for arcade fans).
A sim, short for simulation or simulator or simulate tries to simulate real racing and the physics engine is just a part of a simulated game. A sim has to simulate pitstops, qualifying, accurate physics (as much as possible), real make of cars, real life tracks, track conditions etc... . The physics engine alone is not what makes a game a sim.
 
Hmm, maybe yes maybe no. We should ask ourselfs what a simulator is? A sim is a software who try to reproduce an accurate physic, the most important thing, graphic could not be perfect but the way the car react is (almost) everything. The best sim available in the market is iRacing, that is "the real racing simulator" all other products need, in some way, to be compared with. So GT5 is not iRacing but it represent a good level for ps3. Shift 1 could have a better sound, could be fun for some users (why not?) but it's not at GT5 level in sense of car handling feeling and response. Let's see this Shift 2 "elite mode" what can brings, if car handling is going to feel good then Helmet cam and all those new features could be nice surplus able to elevate the product quality. But we need bread and butter things first (to categorize it as a "sim". Either way it could be an amazing arcade game for arcade fans).

Physics are very important and thats what Shift 1 didnt do well (that and the career mode IMO) but graphics are also very important - other wise what are you simulating - cartoon racing?
 
A sim, short for simulation or simulator or simulate tries to simulate real racing and the physics engine is just a part of a simulated game. A sim has to simulate pitstops, qualifying, accurate physics (as much as possible), real make of cars, real life tracks, track conditions etc... . The physics engine alone is not what makes a game a sim.
But it's the key, you need it, as you say, accurate as much as possible. Some pc sims have all those things you mentioned, that's why, when talking about "sim racing" we still need to compare new products with them.

GT5 in the end have a nice physics engine, pit stops, (kind of) online qualifying, telemetry, but I know a strange and weird career mode, no endurance save yet.. but this is not about sim things, just PD bugs.
 
If you see a simulation only for physics yes. Maybe then you're wrong with shift. But for me a simulation includes alot of other things aswell. GT5 fails to give you a sense of driving a powerful car. The Sound isnt simulated well. The sense of speed fails due the lack of advanced motion blur because the game looks just like it runs on fastfoward. There is almost no wind noise etc etc... Soo In this case. Yes it's a good physics simulator. But all other things around driving a car isn't well simulated.
So for me Shift 2 is a Racing Simulator. Becuase it simulates the emotions and violence of brutal racing. With accurate simulated Sounds , Sense of speed, G-Force effects and simulated driving Physics maybe not as good as GT5 or Forza but still reasonable. Thats all I'm asking for.
My viewpoint.
 
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Physics are very important and thats what Shift 1 didnt do well (that and the career mode IMO) but graphics are also very important - other wise what are you simulating - cartoon racing?

I dont think i have ever heard Sim fans say iRacing is "cartoon racing"
 
Since some here seems to know what "racing" is can you guys describe what it is and what it takes to be a racing sim.

Last i checked a race is "a contest of speed", which makes GT5 and shift series race sims? I am not being a wise guy here, just trying to understand.
 
A sim, short for simulation or simulator or simulate tries to simulate real racing and the physics engine is just a part of a simulated game. A sim has to simulate pitstops, qualifying, accurate physics (as much as possible), real make of cars, real life tracks, track conditions etc... . The physics engine alone is not what makes a game a sim.

There are no strictly defined parameters as to what a simulation has to or needs to simulate. If there's no tire wear, what good would pit stops serve? If there's no fuel consumption, again, what good would pit stops serve? Pit stops and qualifying, while a part of the entire experience, aren't imperative to how well the game itself simulates the laws of physics. If anything at all they're nothing but circumstantial procedures...they won't make the game better or worse, they'll just heighten the sense of involvement.

Nothing more and nothing less.
 
Since some here seems to know what "racing" is can you guys describe what it is and what it takes to be a racing sim.

Last i checked a race is "a contest of speed", which makes GT5 and shift series race sims? I am not being a wise guy here, just trying to understand.

Well if the AI does not "race" against you i fail to see why it could be a racing sim? PD have got it spot on by calling it a driving sim rather than a racing sim.
 
Well if the AI does not "race" against you i fail to see why it could be a racing sim? PD have got it spot on by calling it a driving sim rather than a racing sim.

I totally agree, the AI on GT5 just seems to do their own thing regardless of what you're doing. No real blocking to speak of and the only way they go for a pass is if you slow down and come off the predetermined line that they follow. The only big issue I had with Shift 1 was the bump problem with certain cars and tracks and if SMS corrected those, I see myself having a lot of fun with the sequel. I don't particularly need the physics to perfectly simulate real life cars as long as it's fairly close and there's no major bugs. Things like mechanical damage don't appeal to me as I'm not a race driver and don't want my race to be ruined cause I accidentally bumped a wall and jacked my alignment or something like that.
 
I like how they took a jab at Forza & GT5(I think also has the problem).
This cockpit shot already has a few layers of upgrades added. As always with S2U, all the gauges work.

Great to hear about the livery editor, the fact you couldn't mirror was the reason I never did much with it in the first one.
 
But it's the key, you need it, as you say, accurate as much as possible. Some pc sims have all those things you mentioned, that's why, when talking about "sim racing" we still need to compare new products with them.

GT5 in the end have a nice physics engine, pit stops, (kind of) online qualifying, telemetry, but I know a strange and weird career mode, no endurance save yet.. but this is not about sim things, just PD bugs.
Yes, absolutely. The physics engine is a very, very important part of a sim. If not the most important part of all the things I mentioned. But if you want a true to live sim, like NetKar Pro, iRacing, Live for Speed etc..., you need the whole package before you can speak of a true sim.

So, I don't think that Shift 2 is going to be a true sim. Just a sim like race game. I believe Scaff once said that these games are sim-cade instead of arcade. I could be mistaken though.
 
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If you see a simulation only for physics yes. Maybe then you're wrong with shift. But for me a simulation includes alot of other things aswell. GT5 fails to give you a sense of driving a powerful car. The Sound isnt simulated well. The sense of speed fails due the lack of advanced motion blur because the game looks just like it runs on fastfoward. There is almost no wind noise etc etc... Soo In this case. Yes it's a good physics simulator. But all other things around driving a car isn't well simulated.
So for me Shift 2 is a Racing Simulator. Becuase it simulates the emotions and violence of brutal racing. With accurate simulated Sounds , Sense of speed, G-Force effects and simulated driving Physics maybe not as good as GT5 or Forza but still reasonable. Thats all I'm asking for.
My viewpoint.

I agree 100 %
 
You know, I've starting to brush the 'simulation elitist' (not to be taken seriously) mentality of a bit during the last few weeks.
Don't get me wrong, I still want ultra realistic physics, but there's something I realised while playing GT5:
Realism is no substitute for fun. Maybe that's just me, but above all else, a game has to be fun. Even if it's not as good a simulation as GT, I don't doubt that I'll have more fun with Shift 2.

And, at the end of the day, that's what's most important to me.

Recently, when firing GT5 up, I pick a car and want to do somethign with it... But, there's little to do. Even with the best physics on a console, it doesn't make the 'driving' anymore exciting. It's still just a game/simulation of the real thing and can't provide me with the joy of driving I'd experience in real life anyways, so driving for driving's sake went out of the window more and more. It actually got old quicker than I thought.

Just give me a fun racing experience with believable physics and I guess I'll be happy.
 
Yes, absolutely. The physics engine is a very, very important part of a sim. If not the most important part of all the things I mentioned. But if you want a true to live sim, like NetKar Pro, iRacing, Live for Speed etc..., you need the whole package before you can speak of a true sim.

So, I don't think that Shift 2 is going to be a true sim. Just a sim like race game. I believe Shaft once said that these games are sim-cade instead of arcade. I could be mistaken though.

There is no true sim. The goalposts move every year, and every time someone makes a game with a feature that makes it a little bit more realistic then suddenly any new game has to have that or they're "not a sim" either.

At the end of the day, you can't really judge sim or not by what the game is. The only way to judge it is by the intentions with which it was made. iRacing is made to be as similar to real racing as possible, to the point of sacrificing some things that might otherwise be more fun. It's a simulation game. Hot Pursuit is made to be as fun as possible, by sacrificing realism. It's an arcade game.

GT5, FM3, and Shift 2 are all straddling the line to some degree. They want to be as realistic as they can, but if push comes to shove they won't sacrifice other things for it. See GT's insistence on graphics above all else, Shift's focus on the experience over the simulation (I'm not going to go into FM3 because I haven't played it enough).

These types of games are never going to be the real deal, it's all shades of grey. But ultimately, they WANT to be simulators. And that's how they should be judged. Once you label them as sims, then it's a much simpler discussion to have about HOW GOOD a sim a game is. GT5 and FM3 are pretty good sims. Shift 1 is not a great sim. Shift 2...we don't know yet, but we hope it will be pretty good.
 
You know, I've starting to brush the 'simulation elitist' (not to be taken seriously) mentality of a bit during the last few weeks.
Don't get me wrong, I still want ultra realistic physics, but there's something I realised while playing GT5:
Realism is no substitute for fun. Maybe that's just me, but above all else, a game has to be fun. Even if it's not as good a simulation as GT, I don't doubt that I'll have more fun with Shift 2.

And, at the end of the day, that's what's most important to me.

Recently, when firing GT5 up, I pick a car and want to do somethign with it... But, there's little to do. Even with the best physics on a console, it doesn't make the 'driving' anymore exciting. It's still just a game/simulation of the real thing and can't provide me with the joy of driving I'd experience in real life anyways, so driving for driving's sake went out of the window more and more. It actually got old quicker than I thought.

Just give me a fun racing experience with believable physics and I guess I'll be happy.

couldn't agree more
 
In my opinion, "true sim" = Real life quality graphics AKA movie CG level (which now can only be achieved by super computers), Life like damage models (of cause with interior damages), Only supports wheel controller (with clutch and separated gear box), G-Force simulated driving cockpit and suit (Optional/mandatory 3rd party), 360 full circle monitors (or to the extreme: all direction monitors that only exist in sci-fi movies...lol...), and all the stuff other people mentioned above...

So IMHO, there is no 100% sim racing games (nor any other genre of "sim" games). You may call a game XX% close to simulation.

After all, these are video/computer games. You cannot experience injury or death which happens in real life. Of cause, if some one plays too much without resting, that might result in death of fatigue...


BTW, I don't care how much a game can simulate real life conditions. I hope all the best for SHIFT 2.

Peace
 
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You cannot experience injury or death which happens in real life.

But real life is real life, simulation is simulation don't forget that. Of course you cannot experience injury, if a simulator is not a simulator only because you can't die sorry but this doesn't make sense

To clarify a bit what a simulator is let's take a look to Wikipedia
Sim (simulated) racing is the collective term for computer software (i.e. a vehicle simulation game) that attempts to simulate accurately auto racing (a racing video game), complete with real-world variables such as fuel usage, damage, tire wear and grip, and suspension settings.[1] To be competitive in sim racing, a driver must understand all aspects of car handling that make real-world racing so difficult,[2] such as threshold braking, how to maintain control of a car as the tires lose traction, and how properly to enter and exit a turn without sacrificing speed. It is this level of difficulty that distinguishes sim racing from "arcade" driving games where real-world variables are taken out of the equation and the principal objective is to create a sense of speed as opposed to a sense of realism.[2]
In general, sim racing applications such as, Grand Prix Legends, iRacing, Virtual Grand Prix 3, GT Legends, rFactor, GTR2, Live for Speed, netKar Pro, and X Motor Racing are less popular than arcade-style games such as Need for Speed series, mainly because much more skill and practice is required to master them. However, sims such as NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, Richard Burns Rally and especially Gran Turismo have achieved world wide fame. Also, because of the demands on the computer system, race sims require faster computers to run effectively, as well as a somewhat costly steering wheel and pedals for the throttle and brakes. Most arcade driving games can be played with a simple joystick controller or even a mouse and keyboard.
With the development of online racing capability, the ability to drive against human opponents as opposed to computer AI is the closest many will come to driving real cars on a real track. Even those who race in real-world competition use simulations for practice or for entertainment.[3] Continued development of the physics engine software that forms the basis of these sims, as well as improved hardware (providing tactile feedback), the software gets ever closer to reality.
 
I wish people would simulate that they like this game, and if not why do they post in this thread?
 
breakpoint
I wish people would simulate that they like this game, and if not why do they post in this thread?

How can anyone have an opinion good or bad. They havent played it yet.
 
I wish people would simulate that they like this game, and if not why do they post in this thread?
This is just trolling my friend, we were talking about what does "sim racing" or "simulation" really mean and after everyone posted his own idea, I found an interesting definition in wikipedia, so I don't see the point to hate it. I think it well represent the "sim racing" meaning. This will help us trying to decode what kind of game Shift 2 will be, because people need to know it before buy.
 
This is just trolling my friend, we were talking about what does "sim racing" or "simulation" really mean and after everyone posted his own idea, I found an interesting definition in wikipedia, so I don't see the point to hate it. I think it well represent the "sim racing" meaning. This will help us trying to decode what kind of game Shift 2 will be, because people need to know it before buy.

Don't forget that wikipedia is written by regular people. Everyone can write there. I could write in this simulation thing now my own perspectiv and change it to my view. So it's not really legit.
 
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