No Data Transfer From 5 to 6 Thanks to Hacking

[Snorevette]

Well then so be it,I'm pretty sure there are more non hackers than hackers in the game.

Yes, but 'more non hackers than hackers' can mean that 1% of the community are hackers or 25% of the community are hackers or 49.8% of the community are hackers - even if it doesn't seem like much, a 1% loss in consumers is still immense.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it against the rules to discuss these subjects here? This is descending into a fight rather than a discussion.)

 

[Jayson619]

I spent almost a year to get the damn X2010 cars.....now all my hard work is down the drain!

I hope they can make it easier for us to get it in the next Sebastian Vettel X2010 Challenge.

• Time Attack to be on a one lap on rolling start instead of two*
• The fastest time for Gold to be about 10 seconds slower than the original timing

• Nürburgring GP/F - Gold at 1:18:00
• Autodromo Nazionale Monza - Gold at 1:14:00
• Suzuka Circuit - Gold at 1:20:00

*originally a two-lap run; out of pits and an actual time attack

 

[Vendrah]

As I read now, I completely agree with Cosbuster and Imari.

The main difference between buying GT and be on GTPlanet is the ownership. When we buy game, the game becomes part of our stuff. I never paid to be on GTPlanet. Neither is GTPLanet part of my stuff. Once the BD is given to me, its belong to me. It´s still PDs works that were "given" to me (at capitalism, we say " were bought by me"), but what I am going to do with is completely up to me.

The second point is about other users. I agree with Famine point of online mode. I think that the hacks should be banned from online, because the online mode belongs to nobody else than PD.

The third point is that we already have something similar and it´s very constructive. There is a program called "Kangalosh car Factory". With it, you can create your own ride for RFactor. Modding allow you to do many things and that brings a lot of good experiences. Many games became very rich with modding and user created stuff. Also, these games have anti-cheating programs.

Fourth point, Im not so sure about this, but as I remember every GT is a new start. I don´t remember importing anything from GT1 to GT2, GT2 to GT3...My stuff from GT5 Prologue never came to GT5. I am not surprised about not be able to import save from GT5 to GT6, what is really surprising me is that they are putting the fault on hackers instead of assuming that they want us to play A-Spec again. For me, not carrying saves is natural. Except on GT5, on all others GTs the main point was to win races collect cars and "uprise" on the game. What would I do on A-Spec on GT6 if I carry out my GT5 save?? Nothing. Re-collect cars is part of the game, at least for me.

And if you do that offline and don't affect anyone else's game, there's no problem. Like I said.

Well, this is what I think. Allow it offline, and make the hybrids unable to run online, and that´s it. If possible, go even far and allow modding. Modding on GT5 would be awesome!

Im not saying that PD sucks or anything like that. Their work is amazing. But as the hacks have shown, they can go more far. They can include the users on their work, making the users help building it. I think it would be very constructive to the series allow that.

 

[Famine]

I love how clueless people judge 'hackers' and vent out all their anger on THE EVIL HACKERS!!!

In which exact way does it bother you if I want to take off the wing from my S14 Silvia in GT5? Does it hurt you much when I put an automatic transmission into my SLR McLaren, and actually make the car more accurate to real life than stock this way?

Offline? No.

Online? If you have that capability, then everyone else has the capability to cheat. Not everyone has the restraint to keep modding cars only for making more real ones. The mere capability generates a completely trust-free environment.


One only has to play a game of COD to see the end result of this - you cannot even score a kill without someone messaging you on PSN to call you a :censored:ing hacker...

As I pointed out above, it's not a legit excuse to excluse a data/car transfer from GT5 to GT6.

Yes it is. They don't want to give people who haven't earned something in GT5 any advancement in GT6.

If GT6 was secure against hacked cars they could just let people transfer stuff.

It's not. It's a PS3 game and PS3 hasn't been secure since October 2012.

 

[Cosbuster]

I don't think you understand what you're saying any more.

Your initial point was that if PD didn't want the game to be hacked, they shouldn't have made it so restrictive. Now you're promoting restrictions for people who hack the game...

People getting around gameplay restrictions to have more fun =/= restrictions in place to protect those playing "legit".

Not liking a certain type of restriction is not hating all restrictions. Some can be harmful and some beneficial.

As above, your original point lauded people hacking to get round the restrictive game. If PD put in the restrictions you want, you should surely then laud people who hack to get round those restrictions too.

I guess it hasn't been made too clear from my part so let me say it:

Going around game restrictions should be fine up to the point where other people start being affected. Which is I suppose what is happening now more or less but I don't agree with the "punishment". Better prevention measures would be much preferred.

Do the rules require you not to be offensive to yourself?

I would imagine they prohibit you from sending offensive messages without specifying anything about you sending to your self. Hell, I don't even know if you can send a PM back to you. I might take a look later.

And if you do that offline and don't affect anyone else's game, there's no problem.

Indeed, but you still miss out on certain features that wouldn't affect other players. I'm also not familiar with when or how they check your save file so I'm still not feeling too good even if I only use them offline.

You're not getting it.

You can live with it. You can use hacked cars responsibly. You think the restrictions in place are silly and deserve being hacked round.

While at the same time you say that where there are limits, there are inevitable breaches of those limits. You can live with the limitation of not playing online, but you're not all the hackers. You can use hacked cars responsibly, but you're not all the hackers. There are people who would see your proposed new limits as silly and do their best to get round them and use their hacked cars irresponsibly online.

Obviously, I'm talking for myself. Still, I'd like to think that "my freedom ends where another man's freedom begins" is a general concept and systems can exist to preserve it like other games show.

The separation is a limit. Your inevitable hackers will try to get round that limit.

Like I said before, PD is already using prevention systems that get people banned. I just want them to be less punishable.

I know. You're demanding that a company "works with" you to give you what you want. That's not "working with" you - that's working for you. It's not a compromise, it's a demand.

You can think of it as you like. If they don't keep in touch with the people (something PD is notorious of) and what they want but rather give them what they think they do, the chances of what we are discussing happening is far more likely.

No. The product is the product. If people want it, they want it.

And if they want to modify it they also modify it

Basic respect, rather than blaming them and their restrictions for people stealing from them.

Sorry, they haven't earned my respect with their decisions so far.

And yet every time they try to include a feature people complain about development time. Then you get a feature like DLC and people steal it any way. Or you get online and people destroy it by using hacked cars.

I think people tend to complain more because the features we finally get are half-assed. Well, no matter what they do, nobody will ever be happy but if you take all the time in the world and you don't deliver, many people will be pissed.

Actually, it's more like saying "performance enhancing drugs = cheating".

It's the same. If I take them and run solo for fun it's not cheating. The drug alone is not a cheat, it's how you use it.

The existence of hacked cars destroys all trust in online gaming in GT. It doesn't matter whether you use them or not - the possibility of them being used and the existence of your inevitable cheats means that they are and we cannot trust anyone we race against.

Hacking is always a possibility in any online activity you ever do. Even if there hasn't been a case yet, you are still not safe. Whether we are aware of people using hacked cars or not it doesn't change anything since it can happen at any given time.

 

[KiroKai]

I understand the problem of achievement transfers for challenges like the X1 Challenge which are a really worthless award in GT5 now, but as you say yourself, PS3/PS3 saves aren't secure, so people will hack GT6 saves soon enough, and PD will have to make their game hack-proof from the beginning anyway. So why tell the people who spent days of their lifes on those frickin loading screens in GT5 menus buying cars and building up a collection (like I did, from the very beginning in 2010) oh well, there might be the possibility that people try to transfer hybrid cars over, and hybrids are evil!! So you don't get any transfer. Deal with it.

That's neither reasonable nor fair at all, all it creates is more Internet wars of hybrid/hack haters instead of people actually complaining about PD because PD are the ones who leave out such a function and Kaz made up that silly excuse.

 

[Snorevette]

Yes it is. They don't want to give people who haven't earned something any advancement in GT6.

No, I do actually think the issue here is to do with the fact that GT5 save files will be incompatible with (hopefully) 'hack-proof' GT6 save files. Though, of course, I can't say for certain...

 

[killerjimbag]

I love how clueless people judge 'hackers' and vent out all their anger on THE EVIL HACKERS!!!

In which exact way does it bother you if I want to take off the wing from my S14 Silvia in GT5? Does it hurt you much when I put an automatic transmission into my SLR McLaren, and actually make the car more accurate to real life than stock this way?

Why do you care?

As I pointed out above, it's not a legit excuse to excluse a data/car transfer from GT5 to GT6. If GT6 was secure against hacked cars they could just let people transfer stuff.

So I hope your not calling Famine clueless
Why do I care,let's see.
I race in lobbies with pretty much the same guy's every day,we allow people in to get
A) better racers
B) competition
C) meet new people
Now we have to change the PP system,weight system,etc,etc,etc, to have an enjoyable time because of some hacker.
I know then make it private,unfortunately I nor others have the time, nor the patience to have to delete and add friends on a nightly basis.

Did you transfer stuff from GT4 to GT5?

 

[eran0004]

With GT5 it's not exactly 'leaving it out in the open' - I want to point out that you can't just 'accidentally' modify the game data without any tools (even if only for part swaps - you need to do even more work to gain free DLC).

I agree. It's out in the open, provided that you've done the research and has the appropriate tools. By that definition, even a safe would be considered "out in the open".

It's also funny that an argument saying that it's always wrong to steal (although there are ways to prevent theft) is trying to support the point that hacking is right. Stealing is always wrong, so hacking is sometimes right? I don't see how that is relevant.

 

[MustangManiac]

The main difference between buying GT and be on GTPlanet is the ownership. When we buy game, the game becomes part of our stuff. I never paid to be on GTPlanet. Neither is GTPLanet part of my stuff. Once the BD is given to me, its belong to me. It´s still PDs works that were "given" to me (at capitalism, we say " were bought by me"), but what I am going to do with is completely up to me.

This debate has been going on since movies and music were put on tape, 30 plus years now? This is where you are wrong. You do not own the game, you purchase the rights to use PD/Sony's I.P. Like it or not, agree with it or not, it is the law. Live with it or break it, but it is still the law...modifying the code in any way, shape or form is breaking the law...period.

 

[Jawehawk]

Somebody trying to steal is a given. If you leave something valuable out with no supervision you already know it'll be stolen. You can blame the thief all you want but in the end, it's you who messed up since you could have easily prevented it using common sense.

If I ever see you in real life, I'm totally grabing your jacket or something. I mean, if you didn't want me to do that, you really shouldn't have brought it with you. Hopefully, you won't be driving a car, 'cause I'll probably take that too. Your fault, not mine.


The punishment for thieves really needs to be raised. I rather like the idea of chopping off their hands.

 

[jgancherjr]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=282208

This probably should have been posted here since that is what most of you all have been doing since the OP..

 

[Vendrah]

This debate has been going on since movies and music were put on tape, 30 plus years now? This is where you are wrong. You do not own the game, you purchase the rights to use PD/Sony's I.P. Like it or not, agree with it or not, it is the law. Live with it or break it, but it is still the law...modifying the code in any way, shape or form is breaking the law...period.

=/ Sorry... Dind´t knew that.

Im still trying to figure out why countries out there used nuclear bombs without Einstein´s permission.

However, that doesn´t change the fate that PD can allow modding and that modding would make GT richer and better.

 

[killerjimbag]

You don't use a hammer to swat a fly. They won't ban people because it effectively bans future purchasers and the bottom line is more important to them than your enjoyment.

No I usually use my hacked flyswatter.Sorry couldn't resist.
So if PD did ban hackers from GT5,you wouldn't purchase GT6 if the same consequences were in forced?
It wouldn't bother me.

 

[djslofstra]

Owww It's a shame! I've hated that hacked cars since I first saw them. Mostly that cars are driven by noobs. I'm level 37 now, I don't hack so I'm very sad to see all my cars (something like 350, about 230 fully tuned) go.

 

[finnracer]

Can't say the whole issue bothers me at all!

 

[jgancherjr]

Can't say the whole issue bothers me at all!

This ^ .. Why would you want to buy a new game and already have everything? That's like punching cheat codes into GTAV .. Well bad example .. That's like buying buying a already completed/glued/framed 10,000 piece puzzle!!

 

[KiroKai]

So I hope your not calling Famine clueless
Why do I care,let's see.
I race in lobbies with pretty much the same guy's every day,we allow people in to get
A) better racers
B) competition
C) meet new people
Now we have to change the PP system,weight system,etc,etc,etc, to have an enjoyable time because of some hacker.
I know then make it private,unfortunately I nor others have the time, nor the patience to have to delete and add friends on a nightly basis.

Did you transfer stuff from GT4 to GT5?

Okay, I see why you might despise hacked cars in GT5, but as others pointed out, PD could easily do something about online restrictions to keep hybrids out of online races and they chose not to.
But if GT6 is hackproof they could allow transfers and just remove/delete all hacked cars you try to transfer. So in essence they are saying that GT6 is probably not hackproof and take that as the reason to remove a feature mainly legit players would enjoy as expensive cars are much more worth to them than hackers who get instant 1 billion Credits whenever they desire.

There was a transfer from GT3 to GT4, and no, of course we didn't export standard cars from GT4 to GT5, but you could actually use cars you got on GTPSP in GT5's arcade mode.

I agree. It's out in the open, provided that you've done the research and has the appropriate tools. By that definition, even a safe would be considered "out in the open".

It's also funny that an argument saying that it's always wrong to steal (although there are ways to prevent theft) is trying to support the point that hacking is right. Stealing is always wrong, so hacking is sometimes right? I don't see how that is relevant.

I don't see how stealing and hacking a savegame to increase the joy you get from a virtual game are compareable. If you link it to criminal hacking it's veeeery far fetched.

 

[Famine]

People getting around gameplay restrictions to have more fun =/= restrictions in place to protect those playing "legit".

Not liking a certain type of restriction is not hating all restrictions. Some can be harmful and some beneficial.

It doesn't matter how you justify the restrictions - they're restrictions. You don't like the restrictions that exist in GT5 and laud people who get round them.

Your solution is to put in new restrictions. When people don't like those restrictions and get round them, would you laud them too?

You don't get to pick and choose.

I guess it hasn't been made too clear from my part so let me say it:

Going around game restrictions should be fine up to the point where other people start being affected. Which is I suppose what is happening now more or less but I don't agree with the "punishment". Better prevention measures would be much preferred.

Which you form as restrictions...

I would imagine they prohibit you from sending offensive messages without specifying anything about you sending to your self. Hell, I don't even know if you can send a PM back to you. I might take a look later.

You don't have to imagine. Our rules are printed for anyone to read.

So are GT5's TOS - and PSN's too. Not that it apparently matters.

Obviously, I'm talking for myself. Still, I'd like to think that "my freedom ends where another man's freedom begins" is a general concept and systems can exist to preserve it like other games show.

Unfortunately the current suite includes acquiring DLC for free.

You see, as I've repeatedly pointed out, your sensible restrictions to prevent misbehaviour will be see as just as silly as the restrictions in GT5 that you see as silly. Not everyone adheres to your codes.

Or, if we're doing quotes, "With respect sir, perhaps this is a man you don't fully understand either... Some men aren't after anything logical like money ... Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Like I said before, PD is already using prevention systems that get people banned. I just want them to be less punishable.

That's a pity as, like I said above, GT5's TOS are printed for anyone to read.

You can think of it as you like. If they don't keep in touch with the people (something PD is notorious of) and what they want but rather give them what they think they do, the chances of what we are discussing happening is far more likely.

Actually, they're really good at staying in touch with what people want. They use GTPlanet as a medium for doing so - just because they don't answer doesn't mean they don't listen.

And if they want to modify it they also modify it

Then they're not using the product - and not paying any attention to the terms of use for it either.

Sorry, they haven't earned my respect with their decisions so far.

Did they earn sufficient respect for you to pay them for their work?

I think people tend to complain more because the features we finally get are half-assed. Well, no matter what they do, nobody will ever be happy but if you take all the time in the world and you don't deliver, many people will be pissed.

People will always be pissed. 50% of people are below average intelligence, but there's no limit on allowing them to express their stupidity. If any games maker included every feature everyone ever suggested in a game, it'd never be finished. Moreover, most of the features would contradict and they'd have to leave stuff out because people suggested that too. And then it'd come out and they'd still be pissed.

In fact if GT7 is a summation of only the features that are most popular, it'd be unrecogniseable as a GT game. There needs to be a single, clear, creative direction and it has to be marshalled by a single, dictatorial figure - or you end up with a feature-creeping mess.

Sometimes you do anyway - GT5's UI wasn't great and the actual "game" part of the game was missed out of the brief, but 8 million people bought it nevertheless...

It's the same. If I take them and run solo for fun it's not cheating. The drug alone is not a cheat, it's how you sue it.

That'll be exactly what I just said...

Shoot yourself up full of whatever you want (this is GT5 offline). But then enter a competition that people pay big ticket prices to watch (this is GT5 online) and requires you not to be doped up and we have every right to feel cheated when it turns out you were using someone else's testicles and blood. It's only a matter of time before the entire public no longer trusts the competitors - just take a look at professional cycling, where we're all wondering what Wiggins and Frome will be found out for taking in a decade. That doesn't mean that all drug takers - or all professional athletes - are cheats, just that the drug takers who are also professional athletes destroy trust in the sport.

Hacking is always a possibility in any online activity you ever do. Even if there hasn't been a case yet, you are still not safe.

This is why GTP allows discussion of it - we want people to know this exists. But not discussion of how to do it - we don't want to help make the problem worse.

But it's the very existence of hacking that destroys trust in public online gaming. Removing a spoiler from a Supra is great and all, but the tools that allow you to do that also allow people to cheat others. Everyone's a suspect - as I said, you can't even kill someone in COD without getting a message accusing you of cheating! I am an online cheater despite never having cheated online...

 

[JrDarknes]

This ^ .. Why would you want to buy a new game and already have everything? That's like punching cheat codes into GTAV .. Well bad example .. That's like buying buying a already completed/glued/framed 10,000 piece puzzle!!

Because I want to make videos with the new gt6 physics and tracks.. Most likely getting all the cars back will be time consuming. I can't just pick the cars I need anymore for my videos. I gotta work and earn them now since I'm starting all over.

I was hoping for this transfer to help me on one of my series and now since the hackers ruined it. I'm pissed..... It's exactly why I stopped hosting drifting tourneys.

 

[Jubby]

When we buy game, the game becomes part of our stuff... but what I am going to do with is completely up to me.

No. It's not. You agreed to the terms of service. (presumably) You purchased your car, put it on the road- you do not have the permissibly to break laws. In both cases there are implicit and/or explicit regulations.

Fourth point, Im not so sure about this, but as I remember every GT is a new start. I don´t remember importing anything from GT1 to GT2, GT2 to GT3...My stuff from GT5 Prologue never came to GT5.

Yeah, you're right, mostly. There was some licencing and some credits(?) that came through in GT2. To the bigger point, the data transfer has been very minimal and mostly inconsequential.

Im not saying that PD sucks or anything like that. Their work is amazing. But as the hacks have shown, they can go more far. They can include the users on their work, making the users help building it. I think it would be very constructive to the series allow that.

It isn't extremely hard to hack an already built system for someone that is literate in the software building/coding process. Building it is harder. The developers are more intelligent and talented than the hackers, because if the hackers were superior, they WOULD be working for any developer. Hacking does take skill, I admit.

Bottom line, anyone that thinks hacking is okay simply because it's available to be done is taking (at least) a marginally unethical position. If a tree falls in the wood and doesn't make a sound, does it fall? Yeah, it does. Is doing something against the rules okay because it's easy? No. And, I'm glad I can start over, so in some ways I should thank the hackers for giving PD a concrete position to make public for a reason to start over. We know they wouldn't admit the money grab (which I understand) that Johnnypenso brought up. So, thank you, hackers.

 

[eran0004]

I don't see how stealing and hacking a savegame to increase the joy you get from a virtual game are compareable. If you link it to criminal hacking it's veeeery far fetched.

If you click on the quotes in each post you can follow the discussion backwards 👍
Someone said that PD is to blame, because they left the code "out in the open", and compared it with leaving your Rolex on the street. So I wasn't the one making the comparison to stealing, I'm just the one showing why that comparison isn't a very credible one.

 

[killerjimbag]

KiroKai thank you.
Maybe I'm old school,actually I am,in my eyes stealing is stealing,from my dad,to me,to my kid's we worked for what we have.It sometimes takes time,but in the end you get your reward,unfortunately some of this generation, not all, think they are entitled to what ever they can take.Sad fact but it is reality.

 

[jgancherjr]

Because I want to make videos with the new gt6 physics and tracks.. Most likely getting all the cars back will be time consuming. I can't just pick the cars I need anymore for my videos. I gotta work and earn them now since I'm starting all over.

I was hoping for this transfer to help me on one of my series and now since the hackers ruined it. I'm pissed..... It's exactly why I stopped hosting drifting tourneys.

Again, where does it say that the cars were going to transfer in the first place? Everyone just seems to assume this with showing a link to Kaz ever saying this? And did you have all the cars when you started GT5?

I gotta work and earn them now since I'm starting all over.

That is the whole point of a video game, and from your series I see you really enjoy the premium cars, they should not be to hard to acquire, no cycling the car lot or anything like that.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

For the rest of the discussion, Famine is again the only one really getting the point. Kinda sad to be honest.

Your point was pretty obvious. I personally just don't care that there's no data transfer because of the hackers, nor do I care what hackers do.

 

[Cosbuster]

I don't think I have much more to say, I've tried and elaborated my points as much as I can and would rather not play the long quote game for the remaining day. Still, there are a couple of things I can't help but address

It doesn't matter how you justify the restrictions - they're restrictions. You don't like the restrictions that exist in GT5 and laud people who get round them.

Your solution is to put in new restrictions. When people don't like those restrictions and get round them, would you laud them too?

You don't get to pick and choose.

I don't get why I can't choose. I'm explaining my opinion of which restrictions I deem acceptable and which I don't. I've already said up to which point I find "freedom" within the game to be acceptable. Whether some people find my restrictions too restrictive and want something else is their business and I'd like to hear about it but in no way do I represent them. I'm simply expaining to you how I would like the game to be.

Did they earn sufficient respect for you to pay them for their work?

I'm not sure where that came from or why you need to adress it personally like that. I don't think respect has anything to do with paying for a product you get.

Someone said that PD is to blame, because they left the code "out in the open"

To be more precice, I said they messed up in their implementation of the DLC and could have prevented it. You're making it sound like I applaud for the thiefs getting the DLC for free.

 

[Famine]

I don't get why I can't choose. I'm explaining my opinion of which restrictions I deem acceptable and which I don't. I've already said up to which point I find "freedom" within the game to be acceptable. Whether some people find my restrictions too restrictive and want something else is their business and I'd like to hear about it but in no way do I represent them. I'm simply expaining to you how I would like the game to be.

Which is the issue.

You can't blame restrictions (ones you don't like) for people wanting to hack round them, then say you'd solve it with restrictions (ones you do like) - or you're saying you'd actively want to make the hacking problem worse by putting in the exact thing that make people want to hack it in order to to fix it.

I'm not sure where that came from or why you need to adress it personally like that.

You asked what you owe PD. I said you owe them the basic respect of not blaming them for their game being hacked. You said you don't owe them any respect.

That's where it came from. Not sure how I'm supposed to address a response to that impersonally...

I don't think respect has anything to do with paying for a product you get.

Really?

I don't respect Microsoft, Ubisoft or EA. I respect myself, so I don't buy their consoles/games - then I don't have to dance through the nasty hoops that lost them my respect in the first place.

 

[Cosbuster]

Which is the issue.

You can't blame restrictions (ones you don't like) for people wanting to hack round them, then say you'd solve it with restrictions (ones you do like) - or you're saying you'd actively want to make the hacking problem worse by putting in the exact thing that make people want to hack it in order to to fix it.

The restrictions I am proposing are different than the restrictions that cause people to modify the game currently. You cannot have a game with complete freedom from a deisgn perspective, there will always be restrictions. You just have to choose the lesser evil.

Really?

I don't respect Microsoft, Ubisoft or EA. I respect myself, so I don't buy their consoles/games - then I don't have to dance through the nasty hoops that lost them my respect in the first place.

I still don't get it. What does respect have to do with stealing something? If you don't respect someone you are likely a criminal?

Should I ask the people that speak negative of hackers if they would murder them?

 

[avens]

I expected some kind of recognition for getting to level 40 in both A and B spec and having more than 1000 cars, both which are almost unrelated to the hacking issue. Oh well.

(btw I haven't got to lvl40 in A spec).

 

[alucard0712]

I have zero problems with that. There's no better way to play the game other than from very beginning. I will really enjoy comparing GT6 with GT5 starting from license tests.