No used cars
- Thread starter Classic Anycar
- 296 comments
- 18,174 views
Cobra_UK
(Banned)
- 422
I have a decent 36" Wide Screen Sony TV. Not HDTV, yet, but then I spend most of my money on my family, house, cars and holidays. So paying another £2000 for a HDTV Sony isn't top of my priorities at the moment.
Nattefrost, be honest do you really think GT can be realistic in every way, like you just posted? Please say no.
The point I'm making is total realism can not be achieved. So the line has to be drawn somewhere. I believe the line has do be drawn where the game stops being fun and starts being a drag. Too much realism can turn into a drag.
Of course it's just my opinion, but JohnBM01 was talking to me about how oil change is important and it's called car maintenance. Everyone that actually read my post can deduce that I know what an oil chance is and that I know more than I'd like to about car maintenance.
Nattefrost, be honest do you really think GT can be realistic in every way, like you just posted? Please say no.
The point I'm making is total realism can not be achieved. So the line has to be drawn somewhere. I believe the line has do be drawn where the game stops being fun and starts being a drag. Too much realism can turn into a drag.
Of course it's just my opinion, but JohnBM01 was talking to me about how oil change is important and it's called car maintenance. Everyone that actually read my post can deduce that I know what an oil chance is and that I know more than I'd like to about car maintenance.
- 86,875
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Cobra_UK
Why is it flickering then? MY 36" Widescreen Sony TV is as still as a millpond.
Did you catch Top Gear the other night, by any chance (not the Bugatti one - the one before that)? When they bought £10,000 "supercars".
Jeremy bought a beautiful Maserati Merak (Hammster got a Dino, Slow got an Urraco). When they took the cars to a rolling road, Clarkson found that his rebuilt 190hp 3.0 V6 Merak was, due to age, wear and a serious lack of care, producing just EIGHTY horsepower.
THAT is realism, not losing 5% power no matter how far you run it on sludge. Oil changes - and to some extent the car wash too - in GT are just a way to let the player get more involved with the care of his car and, I suspect, an attempt to get the kids who play the game to realise that, despite what other car games say, cars are not simply pick up and dispose of toys - they need looking after. NFS concentrates on getting the stupid to put "vinals innit" on their real life Citroen Saxo. GT gets them to do an oil change every 4,500 miles, just to look after the engine. And, hopefully, when they graduate to a decent car, they'll look after THAT properly too - so that in 20 years time, when you want to buy a then-Mondeo-money DB9, it hasn't been buggered to death.
- 388
- Antwerp, Belgium
No I do not believe GT can be realistic in every way, it IS still played on a television screen, after all. And a line has to be drawn, but there's still a long way to go untill we reach it. Oil change, wear and tear perfectly fit in a game, and I consider them "fun". Going to car dealers and browsing the car lists is fun, playing with car settings is fun, changing the rims is fun, likewise, dealing with wear and tear, maintaining your car in the game, is fun.
It all helps creating the illusion of a driving experience, rather than just playing a game and doing race after race. It helps creating a bond with your virtual cars. I have a Mercedes SLR McLaren in NFS: Most Wanted, but it doesn't feel like I actually "own" the car. In GT however, I really feel like I own this 600HP classy beast, I'm even proud to have it in my garage, so to speak. I'm not saying this is all because of the oil change option, but it certainly helps creating this feeling. Imagine dealing with worn, dirty and damaged parts in GT5, they will all contribute to this illusion in a positive way.
That's how I see it, anyway.
It all helps creating the illusion of a driving experience, rather than just playing a game and doing race after race. It helps creating a bond with your virtual cars. I have a Mercedes SLR McLaren in NFS: Most Wanted, but it doesn't feel like I actually "own" the car. In GT however, I really feel like I own this 600HP classy beast, I'm even proud to have it in my garage, so to speak. I'm not saying this is all because of the oil change option, but it certainly helps creating this feeling. Imagine dealing with worn, dirty and damaged parts in GT5, they will all contribute to this illusion in a positive way.
That's how I see it, anyway.
Cobra_UK
(Banned)
- 422
Famine
Well it's refreshing at 60Hz which is not supposed to show flicker but I can see it. Don't ask me why but I can. In the race it's fine but in the menus with the flicker i notice and the fade in/outs and the loading times it's such a drag. On my PC I have a 22" monitor running at 1600x1200@100Hz seems to be fine. I seems that anything less than 100Hz I notice. I can buy the same TV as mine with 100Hz refresh but I might as well buy a HDTV next year.
OK, so what you're saying is that these things are there to teach kids to learn about car maintenance. Fair play. But just cleaning the car and changing the oil won't do much, car maintenance involves a lot more than that. Also I'm 30 and I've been buying, tuning, racing and maintaining sporty cars fore more than a decade, and honestly I don't need to be reminded in a game about all the hardship involving a snapped driveshaft on a 350Bhp car on the warm up to a drag race or a boost problem that we just can't fix before a track day.
- 86,875
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
But it's a start.
Getting kids to clean the plugs (and check the gaps) and points, run a full emissions test, replace a worn CV joint and do an interior valet would be pushing it too far and you'd lose them. But they can appreciate a nice, clean car and the fact that if you don't change your oil regularly you can screw your engine up. It's step 1 on the scale - enough "realism" to get them to appreciate you can't just hop in a car and thrash it for 10,000 miles with no ill-effect, like on every other car game on Earth, but not too much "realism" to bore them stupid.
Getting kids to clean the plugs (and check the gaps) and points, run a full emissions test, replace a worn CV joint and do an interior valet would be pushing it too far and you'd lose them. But they can appreciate a nice, clean car and the fact that if you don't change your oil regularly you can screw your engine up. It's step 1 on the scale - enough "realism" to get them to appreciate you can't just hop in a car and thrash it for 10,000 miles with no ill-effect, like on every other car game on Earth, but not too much "realism" to bore them stupid.
- 29,983
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I have to say the more depth the next GT game getrs regarding car ownership, maintenence ect the better imo. Sure it's not going to be real ever, but who says that a line has to be drawn there, we'd all still be playing Ridge racer if lines were never pushed forwards.
Cobra_UK
(Banned)
- 422
Hehe, well it's Christmas so let's care about the kids.
And yes you just mentioned about the emissions test (or having to pass an MOT here). Replacing a Constant Velocity Joint ( messy job
) or maybe something as simple as changing the brakes. Well, it's not just pressing the button like in GT.
So I propose, to make it realistic, that a set of tools is supplied with GT5. Wireless, of course, and while pointing them at the TV and making the right movements kids can really feel that realism.
And yes you just mentioned about the emissions test (or having to pass an MOT here). Replacing a Constant Velocity Joint ( messy job
) or maybe something as simple as changing the brakes. Well, it's not just pressing the button like in GT.So I propose, to make it realistic, that a set of tools is supplied with GT5. Wireless, of course, and while pointing them at the TV and making the right movements kids can really feel that realism.
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Famine
Indeed, but you must agree that it should be more balanced out, because the vast majority is still japanese.
- 388
- Antwerp, Belgium
Of course, then you'd need to have every car you buy in the game delivered to your home.Cobra_UK
Hmmm... not a bad idea actually.
- 86,875
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Encyclopedia
As with the balance of cars in the game.
As I said, since it's a Japanese game with an obvious Japanese bias, a request for more non-Japanese cars is essentially a request for more cars. As I also said, GT4 has more non-Japanese cars than GT3 had CARS - yet still gets complaints.
Cobra - it's an MoT here too...
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Famine
Alright, let me rephrase myself. Is there actualy any non-japanese used car you can afford at the start?
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Roughly how many? I can't seem to remember any at all.
- 86,875
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
This is really embarrassing, but...
How much money do you get at the start?
I tend to just roll into Missions and Licences first...
The cheapest day 1 non-Japanese used cars are:
FIAT Panda ie - 5,109
Peugeot 206 S16 - 14,995
Ford Taurus SHO - 17,881
How much money do you get at the start?
I tend to just roll into Missions and Licences first...
The cheapest day 1 non-Japanese used cars are:
FIAT Panda ie - 5,109
Peugeot 206 S16 - 14,995
Ford Taurus SHO - 17,881
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
12000 credits, isn't it? This means you could only buy the Panda.
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
Ah I see.
- 26,814
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
I'll attack the "Japanese bias" issue a bit later. But for now, you start off with 10,000 Credits. If there were no used cars, you'll just have a Kei or a hybrid with less than 150hp matched up against Civics and Tiburons. Think you stand a chance now (assume you can't win cars from clearing licenses)? Don't assume that just because used cars obviously aren't today's clean sports cars, that used cars are useless. Gran Turismo games give you one of the best used cars to pick up if you had the money, a 1990s Mazda RX-7 Savannah (or whatever it's called).
First of all, I'm sick of reading "Japanese bias." This has been a long-discussed and long-debated issue. I really am. Getting tired of "Japanese bias." Tell your mind to stop thinking that, tell your fingers to stop typing that, tell your eyes to stop seeing it, tell your ears to stop hearing it, tell your mouth to stop talking about it. If there was actually Japanese bias, then all the trouble PD been through to allow to put in all the cars was worthless. At one point, you're going to have to respect what trouble PD been through. What's the white car on the front cover of the GT box? A Ford GT. What's the first lineup of cars in the Arcade lineup? American. Name some of the new nationalities of cars to the series. The debut of Spain, the Netherlands, and even Sweden. The majority of cars may be Japanese, but does it mean that these are the only cars you race? LoudMusic had in his title, "Think Before You Speak." So, think over bias because bias means, no respect for anything other than what a party is partisan over. If Japanese bias actually eminent, every track, car, and even language would be Japanese. I'd say, be mother:censored:ing proud there's actually an international prescence in a game like GT. No, not every car is Japanese. No, not every track is Japanese. No, Japan isn't making fun of other nations in Gran Turismo. So damn it to Hell, get off my ass about that "Japanese bias" crap. Think before you b:censored: about Japanese bias.
Perhaps I'll be a bit nicer in the next post.
First of all, I'm sick of reading "Japanese bias." This has been a long-discussed and long-debated issue. I really am. Getting tired of "Japanese bias." Tell your mind to stop thinking that, tell your fingers to stop typing that, tell your eyes to stop seeing it, tell your ears to stop hearing it, tell your mouth to stop talking about it. If there was actually Japanese bias, then all the trouble PD been through to allow to put in all the cars was worthless. At one point, you're going to have to respect what trouble PD been through. What's the white car on the front cover of the GT box? A Ford GT. What's the first lineup of cars in the Arcade lineup? American. Name some of the new nationalities of cars to the series. The debut of Spain, the Netherlands, and even Sweden. The majority of cars may be Japanese, but does it mean that these are the only cars you race? LoudMusic had in his title, "Think Before You Speak." So, think over bias because bias means, no respect for anything other than what a party is partisan over. If Japanese bias actually eminent, every track, car, and even language would be Japanese. I'd say, be mother:censored:ing proud there's actually an international prescence in a game like GT. No, not every car is Japanese. No, not every track is Japanese. No, Japan isn't making fun of other nations in Gran Turismo. So damn it to Hell, get off my ass about that "Japanese bias" crap. Think before you b:censored: about Japanese bias.
Perhaps I'll be a bit nicer in the next post.
- 86,875
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
JohnBM01
Nope.
Changes on a region-by-region, language-by-language basis. My PAL version in English has British cars first (note to PD - WALES is part of Britain). My Japanese version has Japanese cars first.
But enough of that. There IS a Japanese bias. The most important thing is to just get the hell over it. As I said, there's more non-Japanese cars in GT4 than there were cars at all in GT3.
- 226
why should we be so proud that there's an international presence? There is one because they know it is necessary to sell more games. Pride is not sinking in, however, I saw many posts claiming about all the non-Japanese cars you can get, Yet, you can buy only one, maybe there's some other ones, after a bunch of days, but who wants to have to look around forever? Why can't I find a used Camaro for under 10K? I can right now in real-life, it wouldnt take more than 5 min. to find one, Hell, I can find one for under 5K, more than likely. So theres 5 American used cars?
I'll tell you what, how about, even though the people making the game are in one country, since they are selling it around the globe, involving all parts of the globe equally? It's an internationally played and payed for game, so tell me again, why should we be so proud? Japan didnt invent cars,so there's no reason in that for me to be proud that they include me, is there? and PD isnt making more than 10% of their money from GT in Japan, so how about they make sure they please the rest of us? sounds like nothing more than good business, if you ask me. Which again, makes me ask, Why in the world would that make me so M_bleeping proud?
I would expect a different opinion from someone who asks so strongly (demands, maybe) that people respect all historic cars, and all slow cars, someone who wants everybody to show respect, without bias, towards everything else associated with cars, to maybe not be so bold in saying, "PD is bias, get over it"
I am strongly in favor of used cars, I just want to see a broader range of used cars, perhaps even including some of the cars from GT2 that, for whatever reason arent in GT4? like old Neons, and Focus', and other older American cars, and obviously European as well, though there are plenty more of them to go around right now
JohnBMO - Bias means strongly favoring, a non-impartial bystander, someone with a pre-determind preference, someone who will try to sway to his liking - you get the idea, I'm sure there's an online dictionary or something
It does NOT mean however, that everything would be Japanese, or that they wouldnt include other cars, it simply means that they favor it, which goes right in-line with how everybody I've seen in here has used it.
I'll tell you what, how about, even though the people making the game are in one country, since they are selling it around the globe, involving all parts of the globe equally? It's an internationally played and payed for game, so tell me again, why should we be so proud? Japan didnt invent cars,so there's no reason in that for me to be proud that they include me, is there? and PD isnt making more than 10% of their money from GT in Japan, so how about they make sure they please the rest of us? sounds like nothing more than good business, if you ask me. Which again, makes me ask, Why in the world would that make me so M_bleeping proud?
I would expect a different opinion from someone who asks so strongly (demands, maybe) that people respect all historic cars, and all slow cars, someone who wants everybody to show respect, without bias, towards everything else associated with cars, to maybe not be so bold in saying, "PD is bias, get over it"
I am strongly in favor of used cars, I just want to see a broader range of used cars, perhaps even including some of the cars from GT2 that, for whatever reason arent in GT4? like old Neons, and Focus', and other older American cars, and obviously European as well, though there are plenty more of them to go around right now
JohnBMO - Bias means strongly favoring, a non-impartial bystander, someone with a pre-determind preference, someone who will try to sway to his liking - you get the idea, I'm sure there's an online dictionary or something
It does NOT mean however, that everything would be Japanese, or that they wouldnt include other cars, it simply means that they favor it, which goes right in-line with how everybody I've seen in here has used it.
- 6,977
- old-guy64
At the risk of dumping the "ethnocentrism" card:
Are "cool" cars still "cool" regardless of where they come from?
Why yes Gil, they are!! (I answered for a lot of you so you wouldn't have to think too hard.)
I'm a "Ford man" almost from birth. But I'm smart enough to appreciate the Corvette and the Viper.
I dig Silverados even though I own a Ranger and an Excursion.
I want a 240SX (Silvia to you non Yanks) because I think they are neat little cars.
My wife and 2 of my sons drive Chevy's. One we bought, two were inhereted.
The point is that the idiots that have the bumper sticker I'd rather push a (insert make here) than drive a (insert make here) are liars! Or they are very stupid.
I frankly would much rather drive whatever is running than push whatever isn't.
Yes, GT thru GT5 all have a Japanese bias. The creator is Japanese!! At least PD saw fit to include some of the other cool cars of the world. Yes, Porsche is represented by RUF modified/produced cars.
But, is that really a bad thing?
If Gran Turismo was the brainchild of Famine, it would likely have lots of very cool European cars.
If it was the brainchild of Gil, you can bet it would have every cool Ford from 1932 to present and a lot of the very cool American Iron that I was lucky enough to grow up with.
But I bet both Famine and myself would include all the cool cars of the world that we could also. But the game would be heaviest in our particular knowledge base and cultural base.
Yes, PD cannot seem to get the licensensing for Ferrari, or Lambo, or Maserati. Big freaking deal!!
We have Aston Martin, Lancia, Fiat, BMW, Gillet, Monaro, and many other obscure but nonetheless cool cars.
As far as the used cars, I just wish it wasn't so danged complcated to put a
'89 Skyline "on the road" in the game.
But as Famine says, it is more realistic. I know the first three things I did to my Ranger were buy a new battery, get the oil changed, and wash it.
In the grand scheme of things it is only a game.
Suck it up, Drive on!!
Are "cool" cars still "cool" regardless of where they come from?
Why yes Gil, they are!! (I answered for a lot of you so you wouldn't have to think too hard.)
I'm a "Ford man" almost from birth. But I'm smart enough to appreciate the Corvette and the Viper.
I dig Silverados even though I own a Ranger and an Excursion.
I want a 240SX (Silvia to you non Yanks) because I think they are neat little cars.
My wife and 2 of my sons drive Chevy's. One we bought, two were inhereted.
The point is that the idiots that have the bumper sticker I'd rather push a (insert make here) than drive a (insert make here) are liars! Or they are very stupid.
I frankly would much rather drive whatever is running than push whatever isn't.
Yes, GT thru GT5 all have a Japanese bias. The creator is Japanese!! At least PD saw fit to include some of the other cool cars of the world. Yes, Porsche is represented by RUF modified/produced cars.
But, is that really a bad thing?
If Gran Turismo was the brainchild of Famine, it would likely have lots of very cool European cars.
If it was the brainchild of Gil, you can bet it would have every cool Ford from 1932 to present and a lot of the very cool American Iron that I was lucky enough to grow up with.
But I bet both Famine and myself would include all the cool cars of the world that we could also. But the game would be heaviest in our particular knowledge base and cultural base.
Yes, PD cannot seem to get the licensensing for Ferrari, or Lambo, or Maserati. Big freaking deal!!
We have Aston Martin, Lancia, Fiat, BMW, Gillet, Monaro, and many other obscure but nonetheless cool cars.
As far as the used cars, I just wish it wasn't so danged complcated to put a
'89 Skyline "on the road" in the game.
But as Famine says, it is more realistic. I know the first three things I did to my Ranger were buy a new battery, get the oil changed, and wash it.
In the grand scheme of things it is only a game.
Suck it up, Drive on!!
I would prefer "new" older cars with zero mileage and no HP loss (like it was in GT3).
I got sick of hunting down the 6.2 mile used cars in GT4.
I think PD should get rid of HP loss. There are a whole bunch of rare cars I don't drive because I don't drive because I don't want the cars to lose their HP.
I got sick of hunting down the 6.2 mile used cars in GT4.
I think PD should get rid of HP loss. There are a whole bunch of rare cars I don't drive because I don't drive because I don't want the cars to lose their HP.
- 226
Gil
All very good points.
However, If we all just sucked it up, & drove on, this forum wouldnt exist, because there would be nothing to talk about
Plus, now that GT is so massive, they can easily hire a car buff from each place mentioned above and have them pick out neat cars and make sure that they are implemented properly, right? I loved the first GT, and all the Japanese cars were neat, cause I'd never seen most of them before, but GT is moved past that now, and with as far as it's gone, it's not obsurd to expect the bias to go away, especially when you realize that most of the rest of the world gives them their business
Tedehur
Staff Emeritus
- 4,322
- France
- Z spec
I hope they keep the used cars in the game, that's more realistic IMO, but I really hope they can solve the HP calculation so that we don't have one figure in the garage, a different one on the car specs and a third figure in the replay 
They solved time discrepancies between race and replay as they occured in GT3, I hope the power will be OK too in GT5.
They solved time discrepancies between race and replay as they occured in GT3, I hope the power will be OK too in GT5.
- 1,003
I can't imagine not having used cars in GT5, especially since most everybody seems to want it be as close to real life as possible.....
I'd also like some insight as to why so many people consider a car crapped-out after being driven and it losses some power...... are 10 HP that significant? seriously.... and it's not like it doesnt happen in real life.... although they could (and should) install an option to rebuild an engine, as you can always do that in real life..... and go back to perfect power
I'd also like some insight as to why so many people consider a car crapped-out after being driven and it losses some power...... are 10 HP that significant? seriously.... and it's not like it doesnt happen in real life.... although they could (and should) install an option to rebuild an engine, as you can always do that in real life..... and go back to perfect power
