No used cars

[Disturbed07]

Actually, the Coupe performs much better than its SRT-10 Convertible model.

show me where somebody tested it, and what it did better, don't just say it, because I've seen Magazine tests, and they seemed to get pretty equal numbers, so don't just say it,we can all do that pretty easy, just watch this:
A Ford Mustang outhandles an NSX-R
now, is that true? no, but I said it, just like you

EDIT: And here you go. Every enhancement the NSX-R carries.
http://world.honda.com/NSX/

so, it's exactly what I thought, It's lighter, with aerodynamic improvments over the regular NSX's.... it's not that drastic
aka, shift levers and neat pedals, and clutches, while helpful, don't change track times much, more than anything, the clutches, and flywheel, and other various upgrades make it simply more reliable than the other models for race-use

BTW, a little history. You do know legendary racer Senna helped make the NSX what it is today, don't you? You also may know McLaren has Honda to thank for the F1 wins they had, hence why Honda was chosen as the 1st company to power the F1's.

how is this history helpful or even related? why do I care about a racer who made an NSX what it is today?
and why do I care about McLaren's help from Honda?
I'm not a big McLaren fan, they're highly overrated, due to their street version's lack of handling grip, wether that's a popular opinion or not, .86G's is very sad for a car of the supposed caliber

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGT Rankings

Top GT300 car
Team Wreckless (Toyota MR-S)
Total's 93 Points in the Current season.
~Race 1: 6 (5th)
~Race 2: 12 (3rd)
~Race 3: 16 (2nd)
~Race 4: 12 (3rd)
~Race 5: 3 (8th)
~Race 6: 12 (3rd)
~Race 7: 20 (1st)
~Race 8: 12 (3rd)

Top GT500 car
Team Nismo (Nissan Fairlady Z)
Total's 86 Points in the Current Season
~Race 1: 3 (8th)
~Race 2: 16 (2nd)
~Race 3: 21 (1st)
~Race 4: 5 (6th)
~Race 5: 8 (4th)
~Race 6: 2 (9th)
~Race 7: 16 (2nd)
~Race 8: 15 (2nd)


ok, why are you showing me this? what does this tell me? a 300HP car beat other 300hp cars, and a 500hp car beat other 500hp cars.....and?
I hope your not thinking the MR-S beat the NISMO car, are you? cause each is in seperate classes, they don't race each other, this simply proves that, in one year, the 300hp class was dominated slightly more than the 500HP class, being that it accumulated 5 more point against it's own, seperate competition - WHO CARES???

I thought you were gonna prove something?

 

[McLaren]

Well, technically, you never said it couldn't be in rankings.
Technically, the 300Hp car is beating a GT500.

How about this then?
http://www.norcalevo.net/video/motegibattle.wmv

It beats and keeps up with a car runnin' close to 600.
But of course, you'll probably say, "That's in Japan! That's biased."

Honda NSX-R (295Hp)
Lamborghini Murcielago (580Hp)
Lamborghini Gallardo (500Hp)
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 (444Hp)
Ferrari 360 Modena (395Hp)
BMW M3 CSL (360Hp)

Huh, wonder who beat all of them but 1.

 

[Disturbed07]

Well, technically, you never said it couldn't be in rankings.
Technically, the 300Hp car is beating a GT500.
ok, anybody else who thinks this is the stupidest thing yet, say something, as I can't remember this kind of stupidity
How about this then?
http://www.norcalevo.net/video/motegibattle.wmv
that's an 8 and 1/2 minute video! I have dial-up! I'm not waiting for a week, how about, what kinds of cars are they? and is there any evidence of one having 600HP? is it a Viper? what kind of crap car is it if it can't beat a car with half the power?
It beats and keeps up with a car runnin' close to 600.
But of course, you'll probably say, "That's in Japan! That's biased."

how does it beat it, AND keep up with it? it's gotta be one or the other....

you know, your type font really gives my computer I'm using a hard time with pasting and responding, that's why my type font is so damn BIG......

 

[McLaren]

Well, excuse me if I don't have a Dial-up tracker that tells me who has Dial-up and who doesn't.

The only mistake I made was putting a 2. The NSX comes 3rd do an Overheat problem.

1st=Murcielago
2nd=Gallardo
3rd=NSX-R
4-6th aren't reported.

Note: That the NSX-R lead the race until the end. It could have gotten 2nd, but the Gallardo snuck up on the last straightaway.

 

[Disturbed07]

well, now that I know what the cars are, I won't say it's biased, I'll say it's numbnuts driving them, sorry.
I've seen some Japanese internet videos of cars racing, and no, in the videos I saw, the people couldnt drive worth ****, period. granted those were a certain type, made by the same people, and I don't know if these are the same guys, but for an NSX-R to run with a Murcielago is pure crap, as well as the 911 turbo and the Gallardo, and I certainly would expect them to beat a C5 ZO6, and that beat an NSX, with known drivers, and how do we know they arent just random john doe's or bruce lee's driving? does it show the drivers? do they have any credentials? are they used to powerful cars? the list goes on

 

[McLaren]

Murcielago=Akihiko Nakaya
1988 Formula 3000 Champion

Gallardo=Takuya Kurosawa
Racing since '96

NSX-R=Haruki Kurosawa (AKA Gan San)
Racer since '85
Formula 3000 racer

 

[Disturbed07]

what track is it?
and why did R&T beat an NSX with a C5 ZO6?
I know the NSX-R is better, but not that much, cause all it's got basically, on most tracks, is the weight advantage

 

[Dave A]

What Nurburgring are we talking about- the Nordschleife in GT4 that doesn't use the Nurburgring F1 circuit, or the real Nordschleife that uses the F1 circuit?

The track in question is the standard Nordschliefe (the one in GT4), the configuration that includes the Nurburgring is called the Nordschliefe 24hr circuit because it's only used in the 24hr race every year. The standard configuration is what all the car manufacturers and people who go there to drive round it all run on, it's also the same layout as the old Formula 1 races used run.

 

[Dave A]

what track is it?
and why did R&T beat an NSX with a C5 ZO6?
I know the NSX-R is better, but not that much, cause all it's got basically, on most tracks, is the weight advantage

Nope, the NSX-R is a far superior machine to the standard NSX, sure the power hasn't been hiked up, but that doen't mean they all have the same parts and are setup the same. The NSX-R will rape an NSX anywhere, road or track. And btw, that video is not the only one out there where an NSX-R has kept up with or beaten cars like Lambo Murcielago's and Ferrari 360's ect. The main reason I'm standing with you on the Ring, is because it favourse high speed, and the Viper has more of that, can't corner as fast, but it can accelerate faster and reach a faster top speed. The Ring likes that. But don' try and put the NSX-R just beacuse you don't know much about the car, I've seen it beat cars like the Vipers and Lambo's as mentioned before, you don't just need power.

 

[Disturbed07]

Nope, the NSX-R is a far superior machine to the standard NSX, sure the power hasn't been hiked up, but that doen't mean they all have the same parts and are setup the same. The NSX-R will rape an NSX anywhere, road or track. And btw, that video is not the only one out there where an NSX-R has kept up with or beaten cars like Lambo Murcielago's and Ferrari 360's ect. The main reason I'm standing with you on the Ring, is because it favourse high speed, and the Viper has more of that, can't corner as fast, but it can accelerate faster and reach a faster top speed. The Ring likes that. But don' try and put the NSX-R just beacuse you don't know much about the car, I've seen it beat cars like the Vipers and Lambo's as mentioned before, you don't just need power.

that's fine, your all entitled to your own opinions
I could be a cheapskate and say the NSX was the original car mentioned but I won't cause I know a Viper will beat an NSX-R
like I said before, let's see a comparison with the same driver, driving the cars on the same track, at the same time, till then, it's just speculation, nothing more
aerodynamic improvements are great, and a revised suspension is great too, fact is, the street cars with the best suspension's in the world, still don't outhandle a Viper by much, when they do
So for you to be saying that it can run with these cars, mainly the Viper, is simply saying that somehow, Honda found a better suspension setup than any other manufacture can achieve, by FAR, considering it's tiny tire size, and it not being that lightweight, at about 2750lbs or so...
And while that's a huge advantage, not only is it diminished by the power, and it clearly being massivly slower, but it is also diminished by the 100mm of rubber on the back (4 inches) and I believe 60mm up front, not to mention, the Viper is one of the most evenly balanced sports cars out there today (49-F 51-R), and again, it CAN'T stop as fast, period.<--- again, tires.
So with that all being said, please excuse me if I don't believe that a 276HP car can keep up with a car as strongly performing all-around as a 505HP Viper.
I still have yet to see anything to tell me that a Viper can't corner as fast... generally cars that go over 70mph through the slalom and hold over 1 G on a skidpad aren't beaten through turns... not by more than a hair, anyway....

So anybody, if you can't get times of the two with the same driver, on the same track, please, get some common testing numbers, or something, cause, right now, a 400hpZO6 beat an NSX quite easily

 

[Dave A]

You want a comparison between the two cars with the same driver, you've got one. McLaren won' like it .
www.bbc.co.uk/topgear and click on the link to the power laps, the NSX-R is on page 2.

Bear in mind however the tracks conditions were different the NSX-R was in crap weather, so even with the same drivers it doesn't boil down to a fair test. And the NSX-R doesn't have 276Bhp, it has around 330Bhp. And no Honda didn't just get the suspension right, they got the whole car right. Theres a reason one car will handle better than another, it's because it has a better chassis and setup than the other, the NSX-R is more technically advanced in construction than the Viper, it has a lower CoG, better WD and a stiffer chassis. Like I've said many times though, I don't doubt that the Viper can lap a track quicker, in the instance linked it did, regardless of the weather it was still 3 seconds, I'm simply saying don't underestimate the car. Just because you don't know much about it doesn't mean it's not capable of shaming 500bhp cars, because it has proven that it can in many a car article or on TV.


Regarding the Vipers handling, it has tonnes of grip, until it kills you. This is a common misconception with Vipers, people say they can't corner, when the truth is, they can but they get very agressive very quick when you step over the limits that little bit.

 

[Disturbed07]

what about the gentleman's agreement? maybe it's sold in Europe, but the NSX-R aint sold in the U.S.

Where does it say the NSX-R had worse track conditions?
I could be wrong, but I'd assume that before they put it in as a "power lap" they'd do it on a dry course.....?

Though the Viper lost to a Ford GT by 7 seconds or so... makes me think maybe they do run in wet conditions... but that'd mean the Viper ran it wet too..

 

[Dave A]

Yeah "officially" cars like the NSX, R34 Skyline and Supra ect had 276bhp since that was the limit to power in the gentlemens agreement (which was done away with not too lng ago btw). However, the manufacturers were actually pushing the power up above that limit, for example, you could buy your brand new NSX-R with "276"Bhp, take it sraight from the showroom to a garage, have it dyno tested and it would say between 320 and 330 depending on the weather. It wa the same with the Sura, they had a little over 330bhp and the R34 GT-R's had around 330Bhp. The Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 had over 320Bhp and the list goes on, the official figure of 276Bhp was just put on paper to keep everyone happy. the reality was they all knew they were all edging over that limit, the result was earlier this year, the agreement was done away with.

 

[Disturbed07]

are you sure it has a stiffer chassis? the "coupe" is quite stiff, they say.
are you sure it has better WD? it can't be much, the Viper's 49/51
How would you possibly know if it has a lower CoG?

 

[Dave A]

Well stiffer than the SRT-10, the coupe I know very little about, the Coupe may be stiffer it may not be, I honestly don't know. The WD in the NSX-R is spot on 50/50 so it is better, not a huge difference, but better. The NSX-R is a lower car than the Viper, the ride height is pretty similar but the roofline, height of the bonnet and of the boot are all lower on the NSX-R, so it has a lower CoG.

 

[McLaren]

that's fine, your all entitled to your own opinions
I could be a cheapskate and say the NSX was the original car mentioned but I won't cause I know a Viper will beat an NSX-R

Wow, aren't we the ignnorant one. There's no point going any farther, because whether you like it or not, the NSX-R is not some **** car. It can take down even highest bred cars and because a C5 Z06 beat it (which was beat by a Viper), that means the Viper can beat it? No. The 360 CS lapped times much faster than the SRT-10, so that means it should definately beat the NSX-R, right? Wrong.

like I said before, let's see a comparison with the same driver, driving the cars on the same track, at the same time, till then, it's just speculation

You can look that up yourself. It's called a car magazine. So sorry not every video of the NSX-R has a Viper or shows the same driver driving both.

So for you to be saying that it can run with these cars, mainly the Viper, is simply saying that somehow, Honda found a better suspension setup than any other manufacture can achieve, by FAR, considering it's tiny tire size, and it not being that lightweight, at about 2750lbs or so...

Uh, YEAH! Honda is just as far advanced in car technology like the rest of the world.

So with that all being said, please excuse me if I don't believe that a 276HP car can keep up with a car as strongly performing all-around as a 505HP Viper.

It's 330Hp pal, and its label is 295Hp.
And why again, do you think Power is everything?
Maybe you should read that site I linked again.

What the NSX-R makes up for is in the corners. The car can perform much faster speeds through corners than most cars including the Viper.

So anybody, if you can't get times of the two with the same driver, on the same track, please, get some common testing numbers, or something, cause, right now, a 400hpZO6 beat an NSX quite easily

Again, I'm so sorry if everything that happens on the track isn't published on the web.

BTW, your "this car beat that, so that means this other car will win" logic is ****.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

ThreadTitle; No Used Cars

Discussion ; The merits of the SRT-10 vs NSX-R'02 ,
well motegibattle is a nattle vid if u asks mo opinion . But whether these models are babes or not is just moaning about the software product coz ya don rly own it ure jes waiting to blow snot all over GT5 .

I hope they keep the used cars in the game, that's more realistic IMO, but I really hope they can solve the HP calculation so that we don't have one figure in the garage, a different one on the car specs and a third figure in the replay
They solved time discrepancies between race and replay as they occured in GT3, I hope the power will be OK too in GT5 .

:tup:USED CAR LOTS SHOULD BE RETAINED for 5 . However , stewarding of outputs for Race/Display/Record might be kept a little more explicable i.e. qualify for a Dyno test pre serious championship qualificationing , a dyno guy . This would reassure and keep in scale .

Ah, but the previous mileage stops me from fully bonding with used cars. I like to be able to see how many clicks I’ve put on the odo of each vehicle.

It does and it does'nt make info lossy , u could always write down the mileage of a choice example ( year/colour etc ) and the in-4 diary can come to ure aid on the card when matching records . In fact , in many ways its preferable in a relationship that a more individual , well-cared for as Famine would have it , example is restored to full ballsout potential , some 80's being taken up into it's , yes , JAPANESE (mostly) tribe of Glory . It adds storyline , plot & character to the usage of the models in SIM mode . Thusly value whereas a newbie LMP has to have it's spine brukken & it's nostrils bled before it becomes KingFrickinMinolt , clean 000000 instrumentation and all on yer bike Samberto .

Oil condition = Engine Wear and this is what sets up a mileage combo( a wee Sarthe enduro will tally dist on the odo w/ color of oil)in Simmode (w/all besides the FGT ) Actua , the SalmonRushQuizzer has a good evocative point on this subject;

THAT is realism, not losing 5% power no matter how far you run it on sludge. Oil changes - and to some extent the car wash too - in GT are just a way to let the player get more involved with the care of his car and, I suspect, an attempt to get the kids who play the game to realise that, despite what other car games say, cars are not simply pick up and dispose of toys - they need looking after. NFS concentrates on getting the stupid to put "vinals innit" on their real life Citroen Saxo. GT gets them to do an oil change every 4,500 miles, just to look after the engine. And, hopefully, when they graduate to a decent car, they'll look after THAT properly too - so that in 20 years time, when you want to buy a then-Mondeo-money DB9, it hasn't been buggered to death.

GT4 Cars are Fanciable in mo opine , even if their dialect is Touge n' Manjii . So , leave it out , ide like to see 70's , 60's , bigtime US 50's prewar nerd USED CAR LOTS because any car beyond Lottie's age gruppe is bound to have been touched at least Once !

BluRay or ManRay , whatever , it is important that the extra data space (IN5) is Used to a Greater Indugence of Aussie Leyland 114's par example . In GT4 , a different game than this forumfocus , there are Brilliant Used Acuras ; CL3.2 , Integra Type-R that Famine did'nt mention in his non-asian list if this thread .

This will be expanded upon i trust in the next release from this house who've proven to a no. , so far , that they are trustworthy in Automobilia .

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Ps Ide like to quote *mclaren* for this but he seems to have a raptor on hold , ile check in on the PGR3 rap, though .

 

[McLaren]

BTW Disturbed07.

Here's some Hockenheim Times
~Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1:14.9 (Sport Auto 10/04)
~Honda NSX-R - 1:14.6 (Sport Auto 08/02)
~Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1:14.3 (Sport Auto 7/2005)

Hmm...looks to me like it took the Viper another year to beat it after it failed to the 1st time.

Looks like even with the majority being straightaways, the Viper still didn't have a giant win.

EDIT: If that isn't enough for ya, I'll name the other cars the NSX-R beat.

 

[95GTIVR6]

i like cookies

 

[95GTIVR6]

BUT I DONT LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE GET OFF TOPIC

Used cars should be in the next GT game, period! GT3 just seemed so lost without them. The only thing I dont like about the used cars is for the ones you can't get with 6.2 miles, you have to spend 50,000 credits just to get the suspension back to the way it was.

PS> Im pretty suprised this hasn't gotten locked due to pointless arguing on the internet.

 

[Jay]

BUT I DONT LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE GET OFF TOPIC

But you like to doube post?

Used cars should be in the next GT game, period! GT3 just seemed so lost without them.

Agreed.

 

[slpknot89]

i love used cars......it adds real life....how broke u r too hahah

 

[Disturbed07]

oic

BTW Disturbed07.

Here's some Hockenheim Times
~Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1:14.9 (Sport Auto 10/04)
~Honda NSX-R - 1:14.6 (Sport Auto 08/02)
~Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1:14.3 (Sport Auto 7/2005)

Hmm...looks to me like it took the Viper another year to beat it after it failed to the 1st time.

Looks like even with the majority being straightaways, the Viper still didn't have a giant win.

EDIT: If that isn't enough for ya, I'll name the other cars the NSX-R beat.

You're right! the Viper was slower the first time! then it got magically better!
let it go, the car lost badly at the top gear track, and it'll lose everywhere else too

 

[McLaren]

Again with the power is everything crap.


You obviously know nothing about what makes the NSX-R able to keep up though it's been posted.

It magically got better? By .3 seconds? That's hardly a win.
It shows the cars are equal.

And Top Gear's track does not justify every car's time. BTW, watch the episode. They took 4 seconds off the 1:33 time.

So, now we've got 1:29 according to the show and 1:28 on there site. Hmm, seem pretty d*mn equal to me, so much for a "bad" lost.


You're not very good at getting all the info, are you?

From what I've seen, their equal.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

OT-> Isn't this SRT-10 vs. NSX-R issue supposed to be discussed on Cars in General forum, I've read few pages back and this thread is getting way off-topic and way way off discussion about the future (in which is GT5).

BT-> In my opinion thats why GT2 was marvelous is that because the wide array of used cars in trhe game. I got a nice idea, for cars that are 5 years and younger can be in the manufacturer dealership just like 'Cetified Used Cars' in real life and older cars can be slotted on the used car dealership just like in GT4. (:

 

[Famine]

Where does it say the NSX-R had worse track conditions?
I could be wrong, but I'd assume that before they put it in as a "power lap" they'd do it on a dry course.....?

Bedford doesn't have many dry days in a year. It's one of the drawbacks of living in the UK - though it does make for an interesting variety of mushrooms.

The times are run in whatever the conditions are that day - they only get the car on loan for so long. It is generally held that a wet track is 4s slower than a dry one, though this isn't exactly accurate - it's not as much as that for 4WD cars, or for "mildly moist" conditions, and it can be soaking at the Hammerhead or Follow-Through but just damp everywhere else, which would totally screw your time.

It's also mainly a laugh and a ballpark comparison rather than a totally accurate method of timing.

 

[Dave A]

let it go, the car lost badly at the top gear track, and it'll lose everywhere else too

No it didn't it got to 3 seconds behine only the NSX-R was in the wet, the site doesn't say but you can watch TopGear on TV and thats where everyone knows what the conditions of all the laps were like. The two cars tiems have come very close everywhere, exept the ring where the Viper hasn't done anything worth noticing yet. It's almost always within a second of each other sometimes the Viper wins sometimes the NSX-R does, hows that for the Vipers extra 175Bhp. Just accept the fact that the NSX-R is a superbly capable machine and let it drop. Don't say, it's crap yeah, yeah, it lost. Ok now lets forget it, like you just did, your asking for a reply. Right now I guess I am too using that same logic, but hey, the worlds a *****.

 

[Disturbed07]

ok, so the NSX had a wet track, then got a dry one. What tells me the Viper got a dry track? nothing, though it's 7 seconds slower than A fordGT. a car which, in the big three American mag's the Viper's always within 1.5 seconds...And it has beaten it in some too... I'd bet it was wet, but I just don't care anymore, I never said the NSX-R sucked, you've said it for me, I never said power is everything, again, you've said it for me, and I'm not wasting anymore time arguing with someone who has nothing better than putting words in my mouth, if you were smarter, you could do better. Have fun though

P.S. A Viper will beat an NSX-R
I could do it myself, given the car....oh well

 

[McLaren]

ok, so the NSX had a wet track, then got a dry one. What tells me the Viper got a dry track? nothing, though it's 7 seconds slower than A fordGT. a car which, in the big three American mag's the Viper's always within 1.5 seconds...And it has beaten it in some too... I'd bet it was wet, but I just don't care anymore, I never said the NSX-R sucked, you've said it for me, I never said power is everything, again, you've said it for me, and I'm not wasting anymore time arguing with someone who has nothing better than putting words in my mouth, if you were smarter, you could do better. Have fun though

P.S. A Viper will beat an NSX-R
I could do it myself, given the car....oh well

don't speak about 300 hp cars keeping up with 500hp cars

NSX-R to run with a Murcielago is pure crap, as well as the 911 turbo and the Gallardo

Your stupidity amazes me.

I know plenty about NSX's, and know that I'm 100% sure it's basically the same as all other NSX's

And you obviously were 100% wrong there.

it'll lose everywhere else too

Nobody put any words in your mouth. You said it all yourself and showed how dumb you are.


And I saw the SRT-10 Viper Top Gear episode. It was DRY!
Have you even SEEN any Top Gear episodes? If you did, you'd noticed the conditions are never the same.

I've seen some iggnorant poeple on this site, but you really take the cake. I bet if I hadn't even posted the Viper's second time, you would have given some stupid reason the NSX-R was driven by some "numbnut."


Face it. You're wrong. Your points have been proven wrong. Your info's wrong, and all your "knowledge" is based on power.

Nobody put anything in your mouth. You said it all yourself, and you've been quoted. Of course, you'll probably come up with some stupid excuse like you've done so far.

P.S. A Viper will beat an NSX-R
I could do it myself, given the car....oh well

No ****. We'd all know you wouldn't push the NSX-R at all,but once again, your stupidity shows for the site to see.