Disturbed07
not just R&T, also Motor Trend, and Car & Driver, all 3 had tests, and in one, the Viper beat the Ford GT, hence why I said it did, and this is also why I say I know when I say something, since I seem to be the only one who knows this.
Nordschliefe, the Ford GT hammered the SRT-10
Anglesey race track, the Ford GT hammered the SRT-10.
Top Gear test track, the Ford GT hammered the SRT-10.
Theres three cases of the SRT-10 getting hammered.
The times for relative cars and cars used in this debate are...
Ford GT - 1.21.9
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
Chevrolet Corvette C6 cabriolet - 1.26.8
TVR 350C - 1.27.5
Marcos TSO GT2 - 1.28.2
Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1.28.5
All these times to the best of my knowledge were done in the dry, the SRT-10 and C6 definitely were.
The Honda NSX-R was done in the wet, which is rughly 4 seconds a lap slower than a dry lap. It ran a 1'31.6 thats 3.1 seconds slower than the SRT-10's dry time. Since it'd be unfair to simply say, 3.1 seconds is les than 4 so the NSX-R won I'd say they'd lap pretty damn close either way. But you can't say the Viper is quicker on that track or vice versa to be fair. But if you notice with all the cars mentioned, they ALL have less power than the SRT-10 barring the Ford GT and some not only beat it, they smashed it. I left out the TVR Sagaris time because I didn't want to rub it in too much.
Where's this test where the NSX beat it? I fail to remember, though, on one, the NSX was close, with one source, one time.
The Nordschliefe, it's beat it more than once, the fastest recroded times at the ring have been posted already and the NSX-R is faster, but also when magazines have tested cars there, the NSX-R has alwayys been faster, I believe you've already been shown one example now which I'll get into later.
The fact that you think a regular C6 beats it on every test?....whatever..(yes even the convertible) though you'd be surprised at how hard it is to find actual numbers on these websites, or maybe you wouldnt, and that's why you didnt post any numbers whatsoever while making that ludacris statement about the Viper and C6 cabriolet....
I'd be suprised at how easy it is to watch on TopGear AND Fith Gear the Corvette C6 cbriolet out handle the SRT-10 AND beat it's lap times both at TopGears track and at Anglesey. Jason Plato really didn't like the SRT-10's handling at all, he didn't like the car at all. Also the C6 cabriolet beat it at the Ring.
by the way, live4speed, that response was mainly directed at McLaren, not you, but whatever makes you happy
Fair enough.
so somebody again, tell me where the NSX beat it
you'd be surprised
The Nordschleife perhaps, also Anglesey on Fifth gear, note Fifth gear and TopGear are not the same thing, they're similar in name.
It's fantasic that you don't believe that MT and C&D compared a GT, Z06, and Viper, but what does it matter really? your reference was good enough for you, to prove me right that the Viper's close to a GT, much closer than 7 seconds, no?
I have trouble believing R&T any time tbh, because whenever it gets to certain cars they go all nationalistic or show heavy bias imo and what they claim the cars can do goes very much against what myself and many other people have witnessed in not just one televised road test and also in magazines. I wouldn't be suprised if there wasn't money being passed on from certain companies (which YES does happen in the automotive journalism world).
my sig does match my personality doesnt it? - thanks for noticing
Yes it shows that your big headed and
think your smart, just my opinion but I don't see any reason for you to want to brag about having a high IQ, having a high I means jack **** if you have zero common sense.
BTW, a compliment from you is an insult.
I'd much rather you try to insult me.
I also don't see any reason for baiting like this.
While I'm glad you are still clinging to a Nurburgring track time, I have this to say, and this is all.
While racetracks in general are not always in favor of any car, some cars take a liking to some tracks. I've seen quite a few MT, or R&T comparison's where one cars was clearly the faster one, but due to specific track layouts, it would either have to shift right after a turn, or mid-turn, or take a higher gear, due to specific speeds, also, some cars have to shift towards the end of the Straight, also slowing their lap time. And while nothing's perfect, the Nurburgring removes these problems, as it has all speeds covered.
This is pretty much true.
However, due to the size, and popularity, and the fact that they let normal people drive on this track, it is extremly uncommon for any testers, (be it Mags or car cmpanies) to actually get recorded hot laps on this track, and therefore, not all times found for it are the best that car can be expected to get.
This is true in some instances, but only some instances. When you start to see a trend of different tests and in each test the best times for both cars show the NSX-R is faster you have to start to accept that it is a possibility that the NSX-R may just be faster round the balanced track we all know as the Nordschliefe.
And what that means is, the only times I'll give credit to, are times like the Porsche Carrera GT, the C6 ZO6, and such cars. Either have an extremely experianced driver run the car through the course, preferablythe known "God of the Nurburgring", or, have the company send a race driver, or their best, to drive the car, round the course, while it's closed off. Dodge did not do this, ever with the Viper. Maybe Honda did, I do not know. I do know that the Honda time sounds much more like a good, satisfactory time, than the Viper's, and anybody who argues that, is being a jackass. Especially when you consider that the older Viper's clocked a better time than the newer, superior Viper's. If you don't believe the new Viper's are faster, you're back to the jackass part.
I'll give credit to any times conducted by the same driver, regardless of driving talent. At the end of the day, the same guy should be able to show which car will go faster easiest at the very least.
What happened to talking about the 330HP NSX-R? you really wanna compare a regular NSX to the Viper? I know the regular NSX was the original car talked about, but you were hasty in bringing in the "R", so why leave it out now?
You sure like big letters don't you. A regular NSX beat the Viper at the Ring, it's also not that far behind round tracks like Anglesey and Hockenheim. Sure the SRT-10 is faster, bt so it should be, the difference isn't worth prasing though.
Math, learn it this is STILL why I call you an ass
Says you, I guess everyone should jump on you and start to call you an ass every time you get something wonrg. Believe me it'd be more often than you jup on me Max or McLaren.
Once on the track, though, we found the Viper to be as friendly as a yellow Labobedient, eager to pleaseand it would do what you told it to, without fail. "Surprisingly easy to drive around the track and very forgivable as the rear end rotates," flip-flopped the guy who had said the Viper made him nervous.
Contradicts what all the magazines I've read say, all the TV tests and the opinions of a couple of professional racing drivers. Jason Plato was probably the most dissapointed with the SRT-10, he just couldn't understand how anyone could have said yeah this cars ready lets sell it, because he thought it was crap inside, crap to drive and overpriced (which is definitely is).
That comment was a huge compliment, considering Grattan's track is far from smooth. There are lots of undulations, small hard-to-see rises, lots of elevation changes, and a couple of spots where a car can almost get airborne. If any track can illustrate a car's handling weaknesses, Grattan is it.
Like I said, I sense high levels of bias when all the reports I've just been looking at now say otherwise.
Our only gripe about the Viper's handling is that in some turns it tends to understeer more than we like. Otherwise, no portion of Grattan flummoxed the suspension. We're not pro drivers, but we were all comfortably pushing the Viper, enjoying the g-forces and appreciating that we had an ally in speed. Sure, the Viper's 1:27.50 lap time was 1.50 seconds slower than the Vette's, but given the choice between the two of them on the track, all of us preferred the Viper. We scored the Viper's handling a 10 out of 10 and gave the Z06 a 6.
Don't know about the old Z06, but the new C6 cabriolet outhandles the Viper, it's done it on TV twice.
So, this is where I say grip matters more than the common man's definition of handling. They all liked the Viper better as far as handling, but it didnt corner any faster. How do I know? well, it's the logical denominator. The Vette won by 1.5 seconds on the road course. The Vette is faster, but not a drastic amount, .3 sec's in the 1/4, and 20.1 to 17.9 in the 0-150. (try that in your NSX) Anyway, they liked the handling of the Viper, they claimed it better, but it still lost by 1.5 seconds on the road course.
Which must mean that for a car with 170bhp less to keep up that doesn't accelerate as fast or have as high a top speed must have significantly better handling.
Do you get it yet? Just because some magazine guys like your car better, doesnt mean it actually goes through the turn faster, it simply means they were comfortable. this also applies to your NSX-R, it's easy to drive on the limit. which IS a great thing, and for most people, they would probly turn much faster in one, however, that doesnt mean the Viper, (or Vette) CAN"T. It means you need skill to do so.
Yes the NSX-R is easier to drive fast, surely a big plus point for the NSX-R.
this is how you do it: I'm done here, goodbye
I wish you were, but you wern't.
see below
Max DC
ALL these runs were driven by the same person, Horst von Saurma, head of SportAuto magazine for 20 years or so. He drove the SRT-10 two years later than the NSX-R, so he should have gained even more experience, but he's a pro driver anyway and he is certainly a so called ringmeister.
This makes the SRT-10's ring time definitive, compared to this guys NSX-R time. Horst von Saurma has been lapping the Ring for many, many years, he's more qulaified to provide notable laps than most other testers. The 7'56 time at the Ring was done by a JGTC race driver who raced for Honda, naturally on such a long track, differences like that will appear. But the fact remains, Horst von Saurma drove both the NSX-R and the SRT-10 and he was quicker in the NSX-R. Note again, the NSX-R was quicker at Anglesey (I'll have to dig up the episode) and the rough rule for wet laps
would mean it's quicker at TopGears track too but we'll call that even for the sake of sportsmanship.
If you like you can read all the posts, I never ONCE asi the NSX-R was not a great car, and I never once said it wasnt extremly capable, I simply said a Viper could beat it. Have I proved that? No. Has anybody proven the NSX-R faster? Even less.
No you haven't proven that the Viper is faster round any track, we however have provided sources that are readilly available on the net, both TopGear and Fifth gear. And also the ring times.
2 sources had the Viper run faster, 1 source, in a less reliable circumstance, had the NSX-R win. The Nurburgring is a far more difficult track to drive, and even if the same driver drove them, he could clearly stand improvement, though all magazine drivers could.
One less reliable source, less reliable why? Because it wasn't an American car magazine, because you didn't like the result. Well now you have two that say it's faster, and one that say's it could easilly be faster but the weather prevented it from being so. So that means that one of the sources that says the SRT-10 is quicker is invalid since the weather wasn't right for one of them, and that leaves one saying the SRT-10 is faster (R&T) who I've foud show extreme levels of bias towards certain cars over the years) and two that say the NSX-R is faster, both credible, both relaiable sources.
I've said before, how about race drivers or company assigned drivers run them, as they did for all the top cars? until then, I won't count it as reliable, and I don't think you should either, but that's up to you. either way, it won't make me an asshole for not accepting it.
Jason Plato races the NSX-R and the SRT-10 round Anglesey, the NSX-R won.
So would it be "ridiculous" to say that, since the best time found for an NSX-R is 13 seconds better than his, and his best time is 16 seconds short of somebody else's for the C6 Vette, maybe he's not such a "ringmeister"
No since the record lap for the NSX-R is done by a NSX race driver more specifically.
I am the expert, it was never a Chrysler Viper. ever. It's always been the Dodge Viper, since 1992 when it debuted. Maybe they called a prototype that, or the pre-production versions that (89-92) I don't know, but they're Dodge's, just as we don't call it an AUDI Murcielago, it's a Lamborghini. Period.
I had to quote this agian, yes your the expert.
You egged me on, saying I made it more fun, no? I only get rude when people ahem (McLaren) repeatedly put words in my mouth, make no sense, or, tell me 1.7 sec and 17 mph isnt a whopping. that is one of the stupidist thing I've yet to hear.
I haven't noticed anyone putting words in your mouth, misinterpreting maybe but it's your own fault if you made a statement that could easilly be misinterpreted.
P.S. For you jackasses who continue calling it "Chrysler Viper GTS" shut the hell up, it's a Damn Dodge, you a-holes. Where did anybody get the idea to call it a Chrysler? was it a pre-production car? or are these people that damn stupid?
I didn't notice this part of his posts until just now, what can I say. The mind boggles.
