North Korea Problems: President Clinton in Pyongyang

[Poverty]

^ You are a far right winger. You have already said that we should nuke them. It is such an attitude that makes countries that arent allies with the US wanting to develop nukes. America has a history of squeezing countries that dont do or agree with everything the US says.

I have more to add, but I threw away the source of which I used to form my opinion. I shall go out and buy another copy and share what I read.

 

[a6m5]

Technically, we are already at war. Korean War is on hold, it never ended.

Negotiating with North Korea is like negotiating with a kidnapper, who wants the negotiation to go on forever. Isn't this why we don't negotiate with terrorists? I personally think Kim Jong-il needs receive a strong "message" from the U.S.

P.S. No matter what China says regarding North Korean tests, I don't believe them completely. I think there is a strong possibility that China has a hidden agenda in this mess.

 

[ledhed]

^ You are a far right winger. You have already said that we should nuke them. It is such an attitude that makes countries that arent allies with the US wanting to develop nukes. America has a history of squeezing countries that dont do or agree with everything the US says.

I have more to add, but I threw away the source of which I used to form my opinion. I shall go out and buy another copy and share what I read.

I am a far right winger based on my sarcastic comments about using a few Nutron bombs to solve the problem...a view any sane idividual would know was over the top and idiotic..what with China and all the rest of the neighbors being involved in any WAR in north Korea.


So I can see you can at least read a few words...even if you cant place them in a context...

So whats up next ?
What other gems of wisdom can you offer ?

Can you spell google ? Use it to look up the North Korean accords with the Clinton Administration way back in the 1990 era...then you wont have to locate your star magazine .

 

[a6m5]

^ You are a far right winger. You have already said that we should nuke them. It is such an attitude that makes countries that arent allies with the US wanting to develop nukes. America has a history of squeezing countries that dont do or agree with everything the US says.

Now it's America wanting to nuke other countries? Even North Korea's big daddy, China is having to criticize North Korea, at least publically. I'm having a very hard time believing that someone is actually defending North Korea. You aren't from there by any chance, are you?

P.S. As for the "squeezing", which one of the major nations doesn't "squeeze"?

 

[ledhed]

Technically, we are already at war. Korean War is on hold, it never ended.

Negotiating with North Korea is like negotiating with a kidnapper, who wants the negotiation to go on forever. Isn't this why we don't negotiate with terrorists? I personally think Kim Jong-il needs receive a strong "message" from the U.S.

P.S. No matter what China says regarding North Korean tests, I don't believe them completely. I think there is a strong possibility that China has a hidden agenda in this mess.

China HAS to have a say on North Korea..its the only reason there is a North Korea..China IMO wwould set them up as there own little Hong Kong and use them to make MORE money. They nmay even feed the poor bastards..whatever China is the key here not he US .

We are operating in China's Sphere of influence ..at the best a freindly unified ...unlinked to the US as they are now..Korea will come about..its all up to China..there is a reason NK still exist..China is still not comfortable with all this freedom crap...Capitalism they think is really coool as long as its not FREE democratic types of capitalism ..hey they ARE Chinese no one I think has EVER figured them out .

So get used to china having a say in their own back yard..as long as they are nice to Taiwan..another reason Korea is NOT unified .



Ahhh stupid American...we only wish to unify OUR own country yet you threaten us and prevent us from joining with our brothers in Taiwan who have strayed...

AND you have the MAJOR BALLS to want us to let the dog eating KOREANS unify and give you a bigger base to threaten us from ???

You Amelicans make me want to go pee you soooo funny ...

 

[ledhed]

Now it's America wanting to nuke other countries? Even North Korea's big daddy, China is having to criticize North Korea, at least publically. I'm having a very hard time believing that someone is actually defending North Korea. You aren't from there by any chance, are you?

P.S. As for the "squeezing", which one of the major nations doesn't "squeeze"?

He thinks I am a far right winger......ummm ok ???


I got to cleasn my bong while I plan to conquer the world....

 

[Poverty]

China has majorly condemmed N.Korea and is planning sanctions. The few sanctions left to strike upon N.korea is taking away food aid.

According to UK engineers none of their missiles could take a nuclear payload yet.

 

[a6m5]

China HAS to have a say on North Korea..its the only reason there is a North Korea..China IMO wwould set them up as there own little Hong Kong and use them to make MORE money. They nmay even feed the poor bastards..whatever China is the key here not he US .

We are operating in China's Sphere of influence ..at the best a freindly unified ...unlinked to the US as they are now..Korea will come about..its all up to China..there is a reason NK still exist..China is still not comfortable with all this freedom crap...Capitalism they think is really coool as long as its not FREE democratic types of capitalism ..hey they ARE Chinese no one I think has EVER figured them out .

So get used to china having a say in their own back yard..as long as they are nice to Taiwan..another reason Korea is NOT unified .



Ahhh stupid American...we only wish to unify OUR own country yet you threaten us and prevent us from joining with our brothers in Taiwan who have strayed...

AND you have the MAJOR BALLS to want us to let the dog eating KOREANS unify and give you a bigger base to threaten us from ???

You Amelicans make me want to go pee you soooo funny ...

Jeez!, take it easy. I know you are just making a point, but you can do that without offending people.

Interesting that you bring Taiwan into this. I was thinking that China, by supporting the Americans on the North Korea issue, are hoping for little bit of "give" on the Taiwan issue.

China has majorly condemmed N.Korea and is planning sanctions. The few sanctions left to strike upon N.korea is taking away food aid.

As far as I'm concerned, China and North Korea are like brothers. Their governments, especially North Korea is known for blatant lies. To me, China punishing North Korea is a joke.

 

[askia47]

We all argue on what the US will do, but i think we all know the answer,........the US will do nothing miltary wise, and try sanctions once again. I want North Korea regime destroyed and have their nuclear ambitions stopped, but i seriously doubt it would happen. This is something i wish Bush did move on, instead of issuing sanctions.

 

[///M-Spec]

So you write this...

America have arguably dropped the ball on this big time. With the intelligence we have now america should have either

A.Bumped off that dictator
B.Invaded N.Korea instead of afghanistan and iraq.

Then this...

^ You are a far right winger. You have already said that we should nuke them. It is such an attitude that makes countries that arent allies with the US wanting to develop nukes. America has a history of squeezing countries that dont do or agree with everything the US says.

So on one hand, you say the US should attack North Korea or kill its leader. In fact, you criticize it for not having already done so. But on the other hand you criticize someone for having the same attitude.

Do you stop to think for even a second or two before those fingers of yours go to work on the keyboard?


M

 

[ledhed]

Jeez!, take it easy. I know you are just making a point, but you can do that without offending people.

Interesting that you bring Taiwan into this. I was thinking that China, by supporting the Americans on the North Korea issue, are hoping for little bit of "give" on the Taiwan issue.


As far as I'm concerned, China and North Korea are like brothers. Their governments, especially North Korea is known for blatant lies. To me, China punishing North Korea is a joke.

What part of my joking or sarcasim was offending anyone ...educate me .



M Spec ..as anyone can see if they read any of my post on the subject I WAS JOKING ..being SARCASTIC...it was a throw away statement because of the stupidity of it ...and it went along with some other stupid comments fairly well...sometimes to point out how stupid something is you have to actually type it..and let people think ..hmmm not a good idea...instead of just going on a rant and explaining why its dumb...let them come to the conclusion on their own.

I know...you really didn't need to read this as you have figured it out like a year ago...but for the benifit of some others who may just take that quote and say ...

We already paid for our nutron bombs...lets get some use out of them

LEDHED WANTS TO NUKE THE NORTH KOREANS SEE....

And run with that...without reading the context and who I was responding to...well if ONE guy already thinks I am a far right winger wanting to Nuke NK ...then I figure its only a matter of time ..before I'm am so far right I fall over ever time I try to stand up .

 

[a6m5]

What part of my joking or sarcasim was offending anyone ...educate me .

I am fully aware that you were just joking, but it was the "dog eating" comment. I have heard that dogs were kind of a delicacy over there , but I couldn't help but to think that if I was Korean, I would've been offended by that....

 

[ledhed]

I am fully aware that you were just joking, but it was the "dog eating" comment. I have heard that dogs were kind of a delicacy over there , but I couldn't help but to think that if I was Korean, I would've been offended by that....

Think about it for a second ..if you were Korean you would be thinking of what kind of hot sauce and if you wanted it barbaque or on a spit slow roasted...why be offended by your dinner ?


Mexico and other countries eat dogs also...you need to except certain cultures diets are a bit ...different ...

Would you eat jellied eel ? Or a monky brain appetzer ? Or Alligator tail ?

 

[///M-Spec]

M Spec ..as anyone can see if they read any of my post on the subject I WAS JOKING ..being SARCASTIC...

Yeah, that was pretty clear. I've read enough of your posts to know when you're joking .. well about 85% of the time, anyway.

But I'm not really concerned with that. The point is that I don't understand what would possess Poverty to support unilateral US military action in one post, then make several remarks that appear to criticize exactly such action in quick succession.

...unless you follow the No Matter What It Does, America Is Always Wrong rule. That'd cover it nicely. Invaded? You're wrong, you brutish knuckle-dragging bullies. Forget to invade? Oh, you've buggered it up now, silly yank. Should've chucked a couple of SLBMs over the border while no one was looking... We'd all 'been home in time for tea.


M

 

[a6m5]

Think about it for a second ..if you were Korean you would be thinking of what kind of hot sauce and if you wanted it barbaque or on a spit slow roasted...why be offended by your dinner ?


Mexico and other countries eat dogs also...you need to except certain cultures diets are a bit ...different ...

Would you eat jellied eel ? Or a monky brain appetzer ? Or Alligator tail ?

Hey! Where I come from, we eat squids, octopusses, natto beans, tofu, eggs..... raw on rice, so I don't need a lesson from you on weird diet.

 

[ledhed]

Hey! Where I come from, we eat squids, octopusses, natto beans, tofu, eggs..... raw on rice, so I don't need a lesson from you on weird diet.

I am eating a stuffed artichoke RIGHT now and Fried squid is a favorite appetzer..I dont like octopus...but I do eat Dim Sum at least twice a month and My Favorite Sushi place at least once a month...alaskan roll...just stay away from the green goo and you may live..WASABI ...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..please kill me .

 

[ledhed]

Yeah, that was pretty clear. I've read enough of your posts to know when you're joking .. well about 85% of the time, anyway.

But I'm not really concerned with that. The point is that I don't understand what would possess Poverty to support unilateral US military action in one post, then make several remarks that appear to criticize exactly such action in quick succession.

...unless you follow the No Matter What It Does, America Is Always Wrong rule. That'd cover it nicely. Invaded? You're wrong, you brutish knuckle-dragging bullies. Forget to invade? Oh, you've buggered it up now, silly yank. Should've chucked a couple of SLBMs over the border while no one was looking... We'd all 'been home in time for tea.


M

Yeh well you went right for the hammer and nailed it...I was having more fun exposing the poopy and letting tthe holee get dug a bit deeper...I was bored .


I did throw the Saddam thing in thinking it would set a switch off in his head...but meh.....

Now Mr Zero gave me the muchies with the food talk...not the dogs...mine is looking at me now kinda funny...but the Squid and the tofuu and eggs and rice and the good stuff .


I dont think I could eat a dog ...even a slow roasted one like they have in China town on the spits...I have enough trouble just eating rabbits .

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yup. Most of our big guns aren't even being used in Iraq. We don't really need soldiers to wage war. Soldiers are useful for invading, but I don't think we'd be invading NK. We'd be strategically bombing.

So why aren't you guys sending more troops to Afghanistan to help us Brits!? Sheesh. Well it's nice to know you still have loads left.

Though I don't see war ahead, the countries that are most likely to lign up against N.K. are the ones surrounding it, Japan, S.K. and possibly China. In regards of the United States, N.K. did these tests to probably say: "Don't even think of coming here and try to take over the country...we got weapons", as to what an earlier report said.

You all talk to strategic targetting, but why wasn't this used against Iraq and their WMD. Oh wait, that's why, you didn't know exactly where they were (I agree that there was atleast some stuff in Iraw). Why will NK be any different?

The US military is built and structured to fight major wars accross the globe.
at the same time with different opponents.

It could be done but it would be a stressfull situation and piss off a whole bunch of NG and Reservist .

But you would think for it to happen it would be an emergency so they wouldnt be THAT pissed off.

But the equipment and the logistics and the manpower is in place for a cconventional war RIGHT now against a MAJOR opponent...like China or the Former Soviets..and the doctrine and the plans are ready...thats what a PROFFESional military does wwhen its not killing people and blowing things up..they make plans and practice how to do it .

It would take about 72 hours to put the RD force in place and about a month to fully deploy an Army against the NK...way too late for the South Koreans ...Unless they can fight .

Because the US would be blowing NK to bits and little bits with air power and carrier strikes and cruise missile strikes..if the ROKs can hold the remaining targets for a while NK is history in a month...then you figure on how China wants its government to look like ...BTW ..China may just attack them from the North if they pull any more **** .

The Chinese have no desire to become a fallout zone . And are more than a little pissed .

Is the US stretched thin with its CURRENT force deployments yes...but if you do not have an idea what CURRENT FORCE DEPLOYMENT meanss you may make the wrong assumption that the US MILITARY is stretched thin...

YOU be in for big sooooprise munchkin man El Kimillbung diablo .

Ledhed, your posts are usually full of facts, and sometimes get a chuckle from me. But, could you please add some formatting There's so many facts bouncing around your posts some would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tornado]

If North Korea wasn't so incompetent in general I would be worried now.

As far as I'm concerned, China and North Korea are like brothers. Their governments, especially North Korea is known for blatant lies. To me, China punishing North Korea is a joke.

I wouldn't be so sure. Crazy Specs McGee is bold enough in my opinion to try to use this nuclear program as a push towards pulling his country away from China's influence. The problem is that he is doing this in an incredibly stupid way by drawing this much attention to the countries lack of ability to do anything, as he forgets that barring China on occasion, most of the countries surrounding it dislike the ROK immensely. He's following Iran's nuclear pattern without realising that Iran is in a far better location to try to pull such things being surrounded by allies.

So on one hand, you say the US should attack North Korea or kill its leader. In fact, you criticize it for not having already done so. But on the other hand you criticize someone for having the same attitude.

While I realise that ledhed was joking, using a nuclear weapon would be just a little bit more extreme than botching a political assassination (which I'm sure would happen) or invading some other country. Especially in that region of the world.

 

[Poverty]

So you write this...



Then this...



So on one hand, you say the US should attack North Korea or kill its leader. In fact, you criticize it for not having already done so. But on the other hand you criticize someone for having the same attitude.

Do you stop to think for even a second or two before those fingers of yours go to work on the keyboard?


M

No thats not what I meant at all.

I meant that if whats comin out in the media is true america should have bumped him off a long time ago, before letting it get to this stage, especially if they are so worried about this. (I think this is another hyped up iran situation with a bit more substance)

However we might never have been in this mess in the first place if america didnt squeeze them so much, and its the hard right wing attitude which I personally would call extremism in its own right that forces nations such as korea and iran to feel the need to develop these weapons to protect themselves.

Ledhead keeps bringin up the agreement with clinton and the 90's but obviously he doesnt want to or hasnt delved a bit deeper and further back into history to maybe see why some would argue north koreas actions are necessary.

People right now are saying the whole world are condemming north korea, but I can assure that is not the truth, there are plenty of people out there other than the north koreans celebrating this achievement.

I want North Korea regime destroyed and have their nuclear ambitions stopped

May I ask why?

 

[Tornado]

People righjt now are saying the whole world are condemming north korea, but I can assure that is not the truth, tehre are plenty of people out there other than the north koreans celebrating this achievement.

Clarify, please. Iran?

 

[s0nny80y]

Whatever happens, the outcome of this situation will show Iran what is to come in the future if they continue on the same path as Kim Jong II. The only option is to use force otherwise hostile Middle East nations will go unbound and unafraid of any non-agressive offensives (as they already are) taken against them by the US/UN.

North Korea serves as a buffer zone between Democratic South Korea and Communist China. If we do happen to use force against North Korea, the US will not be alone on the fight because North Korea's strategic location in the middle of the South Eastern Asian pacific theatre threatens every US backed nation-state in the region such as South Korea, Philippines, and Japan. But in the end, the nature of North Korea's government will be up in the air because another democratic nation-state bordering China will not serve strategically for the China.

All eyes will be on this situation. Arms buildup in hostile countries will become justifiable if this situation isn't met with authority.

North Korea's coastline does not provide adequate landing areas for amphibious assaults. The DMZ is rigged with mines and slow terrain. Aerial raids/bombings and artillery shellings are the only way to go. China has a better chance at mounting an attack against North Korea if push comes to shove.

And to end this situation diplomatically would benefit North Korea either way because every test--no matter how many situations like these are diffused--is another trial-and-error experiment they've conducted showing them what will not work and what will work for future "experiments."

If the reported explosion was just a bunch of non-radioactive explosions occuring underground--and thus a farce--North Korea is losing a key alliance either way with China. China has already denouced the trial and to retract that statement and ease back relations with N Korea would be a sign of weakness that shows how easily China can "flip flop" on any given situation and how they don't stand firm.

 

[Poverty]

Clarify, please. Iran?

Mostly muslim countries, and all countries that have been squeezed economically by a nuclear possessing country.

If sanctions is the worst thing that happens to north korea what would deter other countries from starting development on nukes? This could be the beginning of the day the US' iron fist ruling of the world ends.

Hell I bet japan will be in possesion of nukes real soon if they are genuinly worried.

 

[Tornado]

But in the end, the nature of North Korea's government will be up on the air because another democratic nation-state bordering China will not serve strategically for the PRC.

China would most likely merely oust the current government then, rather than accept help from anything farther West than Vietnam. It would change from what it is now to just mere puppets for the Chinese to manipulate.

Whatever happens, the outcome of this situation will show Iran what is to come in the future if they continue on the same path as Kim Jong II.

On the contrary. It will merely show Iran to be more careful in how they dencounce their own allies. Iran doesn't have a country similar to China to worry about unless Isreal gets really antsy about it, and even then the ability to project force (not necessarily use it) will be greatly reduced compared to PRC/ROK. Iran simply doesn't have as much to lose (or rather, they have less to fear) as the ROK does.

Mostly muslim countries, and all countries that have been squeezed economically by a nuclear possessing country.
If sanctions is the worst thing that happens to north korea what would deter other countries from starting development on nukes? This could be the beginning of the day the US' iron fist ruling of the world ends.

You are of course assuming that sanctions will be all that will happen to the ROK. Personally I'm sure that if China feel's legitimately threatened than the government of the ROK will be, how should I say...Warsawed, if you will; essentially giving control of the country to China.

Hell I bet japan will be in possesion of nukes real soon if they are genuinly worried.

That is something that not only do I doubt to happen (remember, uh, Hiroshima), but if it was to happen I'm sure the world reaction would essentially be a unified "So What." The West would care about as much as it cares about anything Isreal does, and for the same reasons, and China would probably be rather agitated and nothing more.

 

[s0nny80y]

Why would that be bad for Taiwan?

On the contrary. It will merely show Iran to be more careful in how they dencounce their own allies. Iran doesn't have a country similar to China to worry about unless Isreal gets really antsy about it, and even then the ability to project force (not necessarily use it) will be greatly reduced compared to PRC/ROK. Iran simply doesn't have as much to lose (or rather, they have less to fear) as the ROK does.

i keep switching up china and roc on accident. edited.


------------


i
North korea's test only provokes their justification (which was to protect them from attack by the West) for the test.

 

[Poverty]

That is something that not only do I doubt to happen (remember, uh, Hiroshima), but if it was to happen I'm sure the world reaction would essentially be a unified "So What." The West would care about as much as it cares about anything Isreal does

I think japan might get some help from the western world for its nukes, but thats purely my opinion and speculation.

As for western world not caring about israels actions, most of europeans nations public were in uproar, with the occasional person that supported israel.

 

[Tornado]

I think japan might get some help from the western world for its nukes, but thats purely my opinion and speculation.

That would likely be the case. But it still would probably not happen as it isn't needed.

As for western world not caring about israels actions, most of europeans nations public were in uproar, with the occasional person that supported israel.

Which was totally why they continued to support the Isreali army by selling weapons, right*








*Not a political statement. Just an observation. If they truely gave a damn they would do something about it instead of saying they didn't like it.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I don't see why Japan would need nukes. Plenty of countries would be willing to support them in the event of an attack.

You also have to realise that Japan made a major step only a few years ago when they deployed their first tropps for the first time since WW2 into Iraq. Since then they've been a defensive nation.

 

[ledhed]

So why aren't you guys sending more troops to Afghanistan to help us Brits!? Sheesh. Well it's nice to know you still have loads left.


You all talk to strategic targeting, but why wasn't this used against Iraq and their WMD. Oh wait, that's why, you didn't know exactly where they were (I agree that there was at least some stuff in Iraq). Why will NK be any different?



Ledhed, your posts are usually full of facts, and sometimes get a chuckle from me. But, could you please add some formatting There's so many facts bouncing around your posts some would be greatly appreciated.

Your right I am usually having this type of discussion with my nephews dad..he's a former LT Colonel in the Air Force from the " Nam era..and we use all the shorthand...

I just happened to have just finished e-mailing back and forth over what units he thought would go to Korea and he filled me in on all the changes in the US posture and what our limits are. It was all military type geek talk so I apologize for still being in that format in my brain when I posted.

Basically the US COULD respond with great force anywhere in the world and against multiple opponents . Fight three wars for different reasons even .
Thats the way they train and plan but we are in transition from defending against hoards of Russian Armor to fighting " War Lite " its the best way to explain it..China is about the only hoard left..and NO US military commander or even idiot will commit US ground troops to a war in Asia against China . Its just not an option .
So you have units that used to be tank drivers in Iraq fighting as infantry .
Its called force restructuring and Rumsfeld is the driving force. He thinks the future hold a bunch of Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan type conflicts and is redesigning the military to respond in a rapid mobile way. War lite .

Air power and combined arms as used by the US enable a small elite ground force to decimate a huge conventional army as in NK or China or any other country in the world. So we use less guys on the ground and destroy your army in place ..is what it works out as . Its a technological edge thats hard to fathom...but no army in the world as it exist right now can survive long against an attack by the US military.

I am not bragging or overstating anything..its just the way it is. Its the combination of force projection and logistics and air power and strategic weapons and re con and communication assets, that make a conventional army....... just a bunch of stuff to blow up .

People keep thinking back to invasions and such...no need for an invasion until the country you are going into has no working , army , air force, power grid , communications or logistics capability.

Learn the lessons of GW 1 and the last Gulf war . Not to mention Kosovo.

And remember ..the IRAQI had a FIRST team with the best equipment they could get from other than the US...the first team was SLAUGHTERED worse than the second because they chose to fight instead of run .

So enough of this...China will dictate what we can and cannot do with Korea.

Unless the midget Elvis tries to force the US into acting by attacking SOUTH or just blowing up Japan .

Then all bets are off and the gloves that have been on since 1945 come off and we are all well and truly srewed...IMO .

BTW remember IRAN is watching very closely...and they do not need a missile that travels further than Israel to start WW III

Crap they only need a truck and some hezbollah Jihadi's.

 

[a6m5]

I want North Korea regime destroyed and have their nuclear ambitions stopped,

May I ask why?

Since he's not answering, how about that Kim Jong-il is pretty much the Asian Hitler? I also don't want a mass murderers to have access to a assault rifles, or let child molesters work in kindergartens!