North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[prisonermonkeys]

Didn't the Koreans do this before with others?

They have. They usually use it as a way to try and force high-profile US diplomats to visit the country themselves.

 

[arora]

Bill and Jimmy to the rescue, if that don't work we have Dennis up our sleeve lol.

On a serious note, this guy seems to be pretty far removed from the u.s., I'm betting he really is a missionary giving aid to children and such. They hate christians and once they learned he was u.s. as well, it's like winning the lotto.

I believe he will be released relatively unharmed and no mater what I will commend him based on what I have read.

 

[Ranman20]

 

[Liquid]

More please, Ranman.

 

[Ranman20]

More please, Ranman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_pZNH_ltDU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I believe he will be released relatively unharmed

Because you've been right on every single occasion so far ...

 

[arora]

Yeah man, I'm Nostradamus

Please tell me what I was wrong about?

 

[McLaren]

NK are going to try a US citizen on charges of trying to overthrow the government.

Knowing that country I would say they are going to die.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22320287

The North says he admitted to trying to overthrow the govt. & have evidence to show for it...except this is the North & they like to bs as evident by the general population.

He's not going to be executed though. Not without the US stepping in one way or another to make sure the North aren't just trying to find ways to gain something out of it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Please tell me what I was wrong about?

Well, let's see here ... there was the way you claimed that the entire situation in North Korea was fabricated by media sources. And the way you claimed no-one in America was taking the threat posed by North Korea seriously. Not to mention the way you suggested that China would seek a diplomatic resolution indepenently of the rest of the world after they voted in favour of UN sanctions, which they never do. You also denied that the government has total control over the population, and that the mourners at Kim Jong-il's funeral were cast in the role like actors so that the North would have some nice footage to show the rest of the world.

And, for the sake of being thorough, there was your repeated insistence that because you were taught to dive under your desk as a nuclear preparedness drill during school, you were adequately qualified to assess the North's intentions and nuclear capabilities. Which you still haevn't explained, by the way.

So, basically, you've been wrong in every single prediction you have made about North Korea.

 

[arora]

Show me quotes.

EDIT: seriously, I just now read the rest of your dribble, I did none of those things I'd really like to see you back that up, not with selected crap either, I want to see the posts or I want a redaction.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You're not getting a retraction.

 

[arora]

Well, that is ok then. You are full of not only yourself but also straw men.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Do you actually know what a straw man argument is?

This is the defnitnion from Wikipedia:

To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

I have not done any of that. I've just point out that every time you have made a claim about North Korea, you have been wrong.

 

[Barra333]

You're not getting a retraction.

You've attributed quite a few statements to Arora there. The least you could do is post some of them. It was only two pages ago that you were highlighted misquoting someone to change the meaning of what they said.

So? Let him get aggravated. It's not like anybody takes him seriously or anything.

became

You said "lets get him aggravated". How did you intend for that to mean unintentionally aggravating him? You said "lets do it", which means you know what you are doing and what the result will be.

 

[arora]

You cannot back up any of the claims you make of me, because I didn't say what you wish I did so you could seem right.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It was only two pages ago that you were highlighted misquoting someone to change the meaning of what they said.

Now that you've actually pointed that one out, I apologise for that one - I misread your post, and did not realise it.

You cannot back up any of the claims you make of me, because I didn't say what you wish I did so you could seem right.

Alright, have it your way:

Why does it make you twitch? From that article...

Conclusion
The combination of North Korea’s long economic decline and enhanced US and South Korean military capabilities has diminshed the threat of a North Korean invasion of South Korea.

Diminished threat sounds good to me. It is a complex situation but I don't think all the hype over the latest 'in the news' is worth a whole hell of a lot.

In this instance, you completely overlooked the way the article that was posted made the assumption that the North wanted to invade the South.

This was me pointing out that very flaw:

There's just one small problem with that analysis:

The combination of North Korea’s long economic decline and enhanced US and South Korean military capabilities has diminshed the threat of a North Korean invasion of South Korea.

It's assuming that the North wants to reunify the Korean peninsula by force, but the rhetoric coming out of the North over the past few weeks suggests that this is not their goal. This is what Kim Jong-un reportedly said when he signed off on orders putting their rockets at full readiness:

"The time has come to settle accounts with the US imperialists in view of the prevailing situation."

Does that sound like the kind of thing someone looking to invade a nearby country would say? I don't think so. Kim seems to be spoiling for a fight, and he couldn't care less about the South. He wants to target America; if he wants the South, then he probably thinks that if he can thwart the Americans, then the South will be his for the taking.

Which is a very valid point - the article was clearly out-dated.

This, however, was your very glib response:

I see, well as an American I am not worried about that, not at all.

As an American, you may not be worried about that - but in the event that the North and America came to blows, the people would would inevitably be caught up in between would be worried about it.

So to start with, you've overlooked a major flaw in the article that was posted. And when it was pointed out to you, you downplayed the threat because it had little chance of affecting you directly.

Now, I could go on ... but I have a feeling that it's only going to embarrass you.

 

[arora]

Please embarrass me more 👍

I'm not seeing the part where I was wrong tbh.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm not seeing the part where I was wrong tbh.

I just explained that to you. You made a statement about the situation in the North based on faulty evidence. Then, when someone pointed the flaw out to you, you complerely ignored it.

 

[arora]

Wut? lol

In this instance, you completely overlooked the way the article that was posted made the assumption that the North wanted to invade the South.

The north doesn't want to invade the south, they may think they want to but they know better, have they yet? No, are they going to anytime soon or ever? No. How am I wrong exactly?

This was me pointing out that very flaw:

Which is a very valid point - the article was clearly out-dated.

This, however, was your very glib response:

As an American, you may not be worried about that - but in the event that the North and America came to blows, the people would would inevitably be caught up in between would be worried about it.

So to start with, you've overlooked a major flaw in the article that was posted. And when it was pointed out to you, you downplayed the threat because it had little chance of affecting you directly.

Now, I could go on ... but I have a feeling that it's only going to embarrass you.

I see no attack on the U.S. now, or anytime in the near future, again, how am I wrong?

You are a fear monger and nothing more, you know very little about world diplomacy and so forth.

I'm still waiting for all the other claims about me you made to be proven, so far you are zero for two or something, hard to tell.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You now what?

I've had it. I don't care anymore. You clearly exist in a world where things don't matter if they don't affect you personally, so I give up. I should have done this weeks ago, but no, I thought you might be able to see sense.

If I don't reply to you, it's because I've added you to my ignore list. Nothing you say has any redeeming value, and so there is no further sense in banging my head against a brick wall. I'm only telling you this because I'd hate for you to embarrass yourself by thinking you've "won" when in reality, I've simply moved on.

In the meantime, I suggest you spare everyone else from the tripe you post and insist is true, and actually do some research on North Korea before you pretend to be an expert on it.

 

[arora]

Don't be like that, I don't mind being embarrassed when I'm wrong, I have opinions. You say I'm wrong but don't know how or why so you resort to insults, please please please don't put me on the ignore list.

 

[Dan_]

This has happened before:

Link and Link and there were more and more.

Apparently, there were some high-level diplomacy efforts involved in solving such issues:

Another American Christian fundamentalist named Aijalon Mahli Gomes was arrested the same year sentenced to eight years of hard labor for illegal entry and “hostile acts.” He was freed after former U.S. President Carter visited Pyongyang and, according to North Korea, “apologized” for the man’s crime.
While unrelated to missionary activities, in 2009 North Korea arrested two American journalists, Laura Ling and Euna Lee, and sentenced them to 12 years of hard labor for illegally entering the North and committing “hostile acts against the Korean nation.” Following a visit to Pyongyang by former U.S. President Clinton, they were released later the same year.

Google-fu handed me those over, anyone know of any other similar arrests and subsequent statesman visits?

Will young Kim follow his ancestors pattern of action? I doubt the US would cope with such risk given the current NK rhetoric.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Obama will probably send Kerry over to hash it out. Or bore them to death.

 

[a6m5]

Obama will probably send Kerry over to hash it out. Or bore them to death.

What if he flip-flops and pull a Rodman?

Don't be like that, I don't mind being embarrassed when I'm wrong, I have opinions. You say I'm wrong but don't know how or why so you resort to insults, please please please don't put me on the ignore list.

You are crazy. I'd have taken that offer at heartbeat.

 

[sumbrownkid]

What if he flip-flops and pull a Rodman?

Then God be with that man I suppose.

 

[arora]

You are crazy. I'd have taken that offer at heartbeat.

Well he said he wouldn't give up on me so I figured I'd return the favor


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Like I said a page or so back, I would not be surprised if Clinton or Carter tried to do something, directly or maybe indirectly. No Rodman though lol

 

[QuikSlvr223]

I'm calling Kim's bluff. Even if they did launch a missile, it would be unreliable at best. They haven't really been on speaking terms with most of the world for as long as I can remember, so I doubt any country has shared nuclear tech. Even if they did make a functioning missile, it probably wouldn't go too far. Could possibly maybe somehow hit Hawaii but what tactical advantage do you get from nuking Hawaii? Kim is desperate for attention, and he won't realize the error of his ways until everyone else dies of starvation.

 

[Lizard]

Ok the guy accused of trying to overthrow the government got 15 years forced labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22377678

 

[a6m5]

Ok the guy accused of trying to overthrow the government got 15 years forced labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22377678

I heard this news on the drive home tonight. Analyst did comment that this is likely North Korea's attempt at twisting the arm of the U.S. for a high-profile visit from the Americans.

So pathetic, but at least they are consistent.

 

[Ranman20]

Edit: last min notice sorry.