North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[prisonermonkeys]

Xi Jingping tells Trump that all sides need to show restraint, not just the North Koreans:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...ggravating-situation-with-north-korea/8467820

 

[BobK]

Diesel powered things.

Kinda like nazi germans U boats.

cant go that deep, needs to surface to purge the exhaust.

One US sub can take care of them no worries.

Actually a diesel-electric submarine is much quieter than a nuclear boat, and hence presents a more difficult ASW problem. True, they have neither the endurance nor the speed of the nukes, and couldn't catch the Vinson group in a tail chase, but if they can position themselves properly in advance they can be a more serious threat.

Not quite, the ICBM-ready Sinpo class (they have around 5 as I said) is very very quiet and is the equivalent of Chinese/Russian subs in its class. Their next-best is Sang-O class, a 30ish year-old design and no doubt less capable. Everything else is old Soviet Romeo class style stuff but still not to be underestimated - when they work as designed they can still be lethal to the unwary.

Don't be fooled into thinking that NK's military ability is all rather "Team America", they do have money and they only spend it one one thing: military development.

I wouldn't think the NK boomers are that much of a threat to the task group; ICBMs really don't make good anti-ship missiles.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I wouldn't think the NK boomers are that much of a threat to the task group; ICBMs really don't make good anti-ship missiles.

True

I was really furnishing that information as part of the wider discussion about NK's ambitions in increasing their ICBM range and to illustrate that the Sinpo class are their most advanced subs.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The North has conducted live-fire drills instead of an anticipated nuclear test; meanwhile, the United States has deployed a submarine to the South:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-25/south-korea-confirms-north-korean-live-fire-drill/8470932

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The United States has set up a THAAD misdile defence system in the South:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...missile-defence-system-to-south-korea/8472480

China isn't impressed, and nor is the South.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

China isn't impressed, and nor is the South.

I live in the south and I'm pretty impressed.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I live in the south and I'm pretty impressed.

I meant South Korea. And even if you are in South Korea, you're an American first. The South Koreans aren't happy because hosting THAAD represents a pretty major foreign policy decision at a time when they are between presidents thanks to the impeachment of Park Gyeun-hye on bribery charges. The stance on the North has always formed a significant part of South Korean domestic policy, so for THAAD to be set up at a time with no president means that a major South Korean foreign policy decision has been taken away from the South Koreans and made by somebody else.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Is there something more to the political brinkmanship in Korea?

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...ale-of-big-egos-and-profound-mistrust/8472892

Alarm bells are ringing a mere three months into Donald Trump's US presidency.

The two global flashpoints, Syria and North Korea, are worrying enough.

More troubling still are America's relations with Russia and China.

These are now mired in angst, uncertainty and mutual suspicion.

They underlie the failure to create a viable system of crisis prevention and crisis management.

[...]

Mr Trump's first 100 days as President have dramatically demonstrated this failure.

For all the rhetoric about "making America great again", Mr Trump is rapidly discovering the US has limited capacity to impose its will on the rest of world.

The trend is visible everywhere — in international trade and finance, diplomacy, and numerous conflicts around the world.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I meant South Korea. And even if you are in South Korea, you're an American first. The South Koreans aren't happy because hosting THAAD represents a pretty major foreign policy decision at a time when they are between presidents thanks to the impeachment of Park Gyeun-hye on bribery charges. The stance on the North has always formed a significant part of South Korean domestic policy, so for THAAD to be set up at a time with no president means that a major South Korean foreign policy decision has been taken away from the South Koreans and made by somebody else.

Well, to be honest, China and Russia sitting on NK's border just waiting to strike should make the South think twice about the missile defense system.

Furthermore, I have heard through various analysis that it would take NK about 2 hours to level Seoul and the presidential mansion, so having that missile defense system in place would help in evac procedures for the city.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, to be honest, China and Russia sitting on NK's border just waiting to strike should make the South think twice about the missile defense system.

Be that as it may, it should be South Korea's decision to make.

 

[Dotini]

Be that as it may, it should be South Korea's decision to make.

In world where every nation state was sovereign, that would be a good possibility. But the world we live in is globally modified with treaties, alliances and states which are in a client or vassal status, like South Korea.

 

[mustafur]

Be that as it may, it should be South Korea's decision to make.

Don't be silly, there is a reason why US outspends all it's allies military budgets by miles, because it controls the defence for them(including Australia) and in return they have the power.

I don't agree with it, but untill America gets a non Hawkish empire building leader in charge it's going to stay that way.

 

[Dotini]

Kim continues drills and other preparations for war. Sitzkrieg?

+26
North Korea held massive live-fire artillery drills on Tuesday as it marked the anniversary of the founding of its military


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ockets-mock-enemy-warships.html#ixzz4fNFTpVA7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Rage Racer]

Russia sitting on NK's border just waiting to strike

Why? The amount of RF troops deployed on the DPRK border is not even close to what a full-scale intervention force would look like (if I don't misunderstand what you mean). I'm not so sure about China, but IMO to form a proper task force to "strike" a country like North Korea would take a LOT of funds and resources and would make a lot of informational noise. I think what's happening on the Russian and Chinese borders with DPRK is reinforcing the borders because of potentially unstable situation in the area.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Be that as it may, it should be South Korea's decision to make.

Yes, how evil is Trump to force a missile defence system on the sovereign nation of South Korea.

It is missile defence. But Trump is the president so it is bad. Bad enough for you to twist the truth in an attempt to make it look even worse.

From the link you posted:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...missile-defence-system-to-south-korea/8472480

South Korea's Defence Ministry
South Korea and the United States have been working to secure an early operational capability of the THAAD system in response to North Korea's advancing nuclear and missile threat,

 

[Robin]

China yesterday launched it's 2nd aircraft carrier (unnamed Type 001-A), the first to be indigenously built in the country and based on the Russian Kuznetsov class.

Although it won't be commissioned until 2020 the timing of the launch I doubt is a coincidence given the rising tensions over NK. It was likely to send a message to all parties involved to cool off!

 

[Swagger897]

China yesterday launched it's 2nd aircraft carrier (unnamed Type 001-A), the first to be indigenously built in the country and based on the Russian Kuznetsov class.

Although it won't be commissioned until 2020 the timing of the launch I doubt is a coincidence given the rising tensions over NK. It was likely to send a message to all parties involved to cool off!

Jesus, they even have to go on and make knock-off aircraft carriers too?

 

[CodeRedR51]

What's with the ramp? Allows for shorter runway?

 

[Exorcet]

What's with the ramp? Allows for shorter runway?

An alternative to catapults. The Russian Navy favored this design for its Su-33 and MiG-29K fighters and much of China's hardware is imported or copied from Russia's.

 

[Robin]

Jesus, they even have to go on and make knock-off aircraft carriers too?

The first carrier (The Liaoning) was an old Kuznetsov purchased from the Russian Navy and refitted. They didn't knock it off, they just bought it and the blueprints.

What's with the ramp? Allows for shorter runway?

Yeah. In the US the Navy favors the CATOBAR configuration (using a catapult with the runway to one side) but some countries prefer the STOVL configuration (longer runway with a ski ramp). Our new UK aircraft carriers are also in this configuration.

 

[Northstar]

It's also supposedly less taxing on the pilots.

Here's the Kuznetsov if you're wondering.

 

[wvmgmidget]

They're also used to kill off the Black Stig.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Senators report that there was little that they were briefed on that they did not already know during Trump's mass briefing on the North:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...y-will-rely-on-sanctions-negotiations/8474896

Trump's strategy is apparently to impose tighter sanctions on North Korea while opening up lines of communication for further negotiation. Which sounds a lot like the "strategic patience" he was so critical of.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Trump's strategy is apparently to impose tighter sanctions on North Korea while opening up lines of communication for further negotiation. Which sounds a lot like the "strategic patience" he was so critical of.

yes, apparently, when you ignore the facts.

Trump met with Xi Jinping. And now, after that meeting, China is taking a much harder line against the chubby dictator.

But I guess it doesn't fit your narrative, that Trump is an evil buffoon dictator, so you ignore this aspect of the story.

Much like you ignored my post just above, that illustrates how you twisted the truth to suit your own narrative.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Jesus, they even have to go on and make knock-off aircraft carriers too?

Better then buying them and retrofitting them to make them modern. Like their first air craft carrier. At least this one was built by Chinese hands.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Better then buying them and retrofitting them to make them modern. Like their first air craft carrier. At least this one was built by Chinese hands.

They pretty-much built the last one too, the Russians hadn't got around to finishing it. You know what it's like with a shed project, you buy all the bits of Amazon but never have the time.

The new Type 001-A (possibly Shandong, thanks Wiki) is 300m long. That's a little longer than the UK's two new carriers (280m), and that's what counts.

Trump met with Xi Jinping. And now, after that meeting, China is taking a much harder line against the chubby dictator.

I don't know... China met him so that's good.

Besides, who's to say that China weren't already having a stronger sanctions discussion with NK? They seem to have kept them on the leash so far.

But I guess it doesn't fit your narrative, that Trump is an evil buffoon dictator, so you ignore this aspect of the story....you twisted the truth to suit your own narrative.

But Trump's doing exactly what he stood against in the election and taking a course that he assured us wouldn't work. That's close to buffoonery.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Trump met with Xi Jinping. And now, after that meeting, China is taking a much harder line against the chubby dictator.

I wouldn't be so quick to credit Trump with changing Xi's mind. Beijing does what Beijing wants.

Yes, how evil is Trump to force a missile defence system on the sovereign nation of South Korea.

At this point, we don't know what's going to provoke North Korea into war. How do they know that setting up THAAD wasn't going to do just that?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I wouldn't be so quick to credit Trump with changing Xi's mind. Beijing does what Beijing wants.

of course you wouldn't. I guess his change of heart was just a coincidence.

At this point, we don't know what's going to provoke North Korea into war. How do they know that setting up THAAD wasn't going to do just that?

The crazy fat boy is going to do what the crazy fat boy wants.

Despite your lie,

Be that as it may, it should be South Korea's decision to make.

The South Korean government and the US are setting up THAAD to defend South Korea from any missile attack.

The US under Trump, is doing everything possible to defend South Korea from North Korea.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The South Korean government and the US are setting up THAAD to defend South Korea from any missile attack.

Which seems pointless and provocative... THAAD doesn't stop artillery shells. NK would be mad to favour missiles over an artillery attack and they're not mad in that way.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Which seems pointless and provocative... THAAD doesn't stop artillery shells. NK would be mad to favour missiles over an artillery attack and they're not mad in that way.

Do your really think that there is no strategic reason for THAAD? Do you think it is just psyops?

I am not sure.

I know that the North's greatest offencive weapon against Seoul is artillery. We would have to take out those batteries very quickly,