Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[FoolKiller]

Please view this page http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Yet, these stimulus packages are costing more than twice as much.

You know how the gov can take back a huge amount of money, bring dream act back in action, make the illegals pay a penalty, that would bring millions, and soon after that they will make more money, cause they will be paying taxes , car insurance, health care, and most importantly have an identity for the benefit of the entire nation since were so worry about terrorism.

Seriously, you think people who have happily been living illegally without paying a penalty and getting things like healthcare and not paying for insurance or taxes will suddenly stand in line and happily start paying a penalty and for all these services?

They can keep doing what they are doing and not pay a dime. Why would they do that?

That, or we need to find one of these to place on the desk:

I don't think those work. I keep hitting mine and we still have President Obama in office. Of course, my fear is that if it does work we'll just get President McCain.


But don't worry President Obama is bringing change!

Yep, here is some change for you:
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/01...and-sections-stimulus-package-are-good-gamers

ECA: Net Neutrality, Universal Broadband Sections of Stimulus Package Are Good For Gamers
January 26, 2009

Congress is currently considering President Barack Obama's economic stimulus package, a measure which contains some extra goodies for gamers and Internet users.

Because Net Neutrality and Universal Broadband provisions contained in the bill will stimulate the online gaming experience, the Entertainment Consumers Association is providing gamers with an easy way to let their elected officials in Washington, D.C. know that they support the stimulus package.

To that end, the ECA has launched an action campaign at its website. Members and non-members alike can use the page to send a letter urging their congressional representatives to get behind the stimulus legislation. From the ECA site:

Net Neutrality and Universal Broadband are not only great for America; they allow us to play the games we want at high speeds!

Now is the time to act and let our voices be heard. The new stimulus package... would provide for $2.8 billion in grants to develop broadband connections in underserved and rural populations... the bill also requires that any infrastructure built with the grant money has "open access basis" which would be defined by the new administration's FCC, but which seems to mirror Network Neutrality guidelines...

FULL DISCLOSURE DEPT: The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics.

Wow, look at that change. He is using a whole new ploy of taking a hotly debated issue and hiding it in a piece of legislation that he knows will pass. I mean, who could have envisioned avoiding giving a major issue the attention and debate it deserves other than President Obama?

By slipping it past everyone without debate and throwing billions of dollars at it he is doing a great disservice to everyone. Even someone who agrees with the idea of net neutrality and universal broadband, which I vehemently do not, should want this to be open and honest in order to ensure that what is being done is actually what you are thinking it should be.

 

[seckcimike]

Your missing the big picture here, paying this penalty will grant them papers! and this will open a lot of doors, opportunities that will grant them living a normal life here in america. Millions will start paying taxes, why wouldnt they want to be legal? they can obtain licenses, drive to work; health insurance and many other things and also will dont you think they fear of deportation? You have to look outside the box.

 

[FoolKiller]

Your missing the big picture here, paying this penalty will grant them papers! and this will open a lot of doors, opportunities that will grant them living a normal life here in america.

You mean getting minimum wage? So they will lose their current below minimum wage jobs just after paying some form of huge penalty?

Millions will start paying taxes, why wouldnt they want to be legal?

Because then they have to pay for what they get for free now.

they can obtain licenses, drive to work; health insurance

They can get all that in a lot of places now. Well, maybe not health insurance, but a hospital cannot refuse care to anyone by law. They don't need insurance, and being illegal they can't be hounded by the hospital looking to give them a bill.

dont you think they fear of deportation? You have to look outside the box.

Yep, they fear deportation, but if they can't afford legal status then that is what they will accept. Of course how much fear of deportation is there when they have been getting by for years?

I'll look outside the box when that becomes realistic. How much should this penalty be? Remember, they are making less than minimum wage in many cases. Is the penalty going be substantial enough to be a punishment and not encourage others to come in illegally just to pay their penalty and go on without ever going though the legal nationalization process? If so, how can they afford it? If not, then what is the point of INS? At that point you are saying anyone can buy their way in for nothing.

And then in the case of the illegal immigrants that are guilty of crimes other than immigration issues, they won't step up. Neither would any terrorist.

And what process do these guys have to go through once they pay their penalty? The full nationalization process? That takes years. That is why they came here illegally to begin with. If becoming a legal citizen just took a few hours none of them would be coming illegally and working for crap wages.


No, the answer to this is to get rid of a lot of the red tape involved in coming to the US legally, not letting anyone who wants to bribe their way in for cheap.


I don't think you have thought this through. It is not some quick fix because there are too many issues to be resolved.

 

[seckcimike]

You absolutely have no idea, you really think all illegals are getting paid below minimum wage? lol i work in a shipping company and i have alot of co workers getting paid atleast 15$ an hour and yea i live close to NYC, most shef there gets paid 15-20$ an hour illegally, how do i know this? cause my brother is the manager!


Make them pay atleast 5 grand, to grant them visa, after 5-8 years they can apply for ciitzen ship if they obied by the rules of United States. Well ofcourse you make them pay again filing for citizen ship.


I agree with you on one part, stop illegals from entering U.S. but make the illegals here grant papers. They are already here, why not benefit from that.

 

[Danoff]

I agree with you on one part, stop illegals from entering U.S. but make the illegals here grant papers.

The second part makes the first part much harder.

 

[YSSMAN]

Even someone who agrees with the idea of net neutrality and universal broadband, which I vehemently do not, should want this to be open and honest in order to ensure that what is being done is actually what you are thinking it should be.

As one of those people who are in favor of Net Neutrality, I agree with you. There are a lot of things that can "go wrong" with any kind of legislation on anything, and to mess up something as important as this (well, in my mind), it does a great disservice to the entire idea of net neutrality.

I see that it is kinda snuck in there, at least on these new broadband lines that we want to put in as shovel-ready projects. McCain was blasting this earlier this week, as I recall. Which is funny, because he was like way in favor of it while on the campaign trail.

Thats politics for ya!

 

[seckcimike]

The second part makes the first part much harder.

What are we gonna do deport millions of illegals that are living here already? that is physically impossible. Its a fact that we cannot control our border already from the get go.


The dream act was almost implemented in 01 but lost votes by 2 they needed 60 but only got 58. This law does not grant every illegal the rights to gain papers, there's specific rules like, must live here within 5 years prior to the law if its passed, have a high school diploma, no criminal records, maximum age i believe is 35, there's a procedure that must go into affect obviously.

 

[FoolKiller]

You absolutely have no idea, you really think all illegals are getting paid below minimum wage? lol i work in a shipping company and i have alot of co workers getting paid atleast 15$ an hour and yea i live close to NYC, most shef there gets paid 15-20$ an hour illegally, how do i know this? cause my brother is the manager!

Before I start, what is "shef."

Step away from the coasts where $15 an hour is not a great wage and come out to the Midwest where $15 an hour is plenty for a family to live on and these guys are working on farms for $5 an hour.

By the way, your employer should be punished for doing this, as well as any managers that participate.

Make them pay atleast 5 grand, to grant them visa, after 5-8 years they can apply for ciitzen ship if they obied by the rules of United States. Well ofcourse you make them pay again filing for citizen ship.

Or they can pay nothing and still live here for 5-8 years doing what they do now.

They are already here, why not benefit from that.

A criminal history can invalidate you from citizenship. They all have a known criminal history by not entering the country legally, hence illegal immigrants.

As one of those people who are in favor of Net Neutrality, I agree with you. There are a lot of things that can "go wrong" with any kind of legislation on anything, and to mess up something as important as this (well, in my mind), it does a great disservice to the entire idea of net neutrality.

I see that it is kinda snuck in there, at least on these new broadband lines that we want to put in as shovel-ready projects. McCain was blasting this earlier this week, as I recall. Which is funny, because he was like way in favor of it while on the campaign trail.

Thats politics for ya!

If you want an example of how this can go wrong, look at the ConnectKentucky programs that have been working to get broadband out to rural areas. They tout how many people in Kentucky now have access because of them, but they fail to mention that it is not the same. I have friends who use a broadband service done through them and they discovered they have a download limit cap after they had it because their son was trying to play a game online and suddenly everything died down to dial-up speeds.

They are only providing enough to be justified as educational use. It is not the same service that can be find within a city limits. That is my biggest issue with the ECA pushing this as good for gamers, because it isn't, at least not until they specifically lay it out as such.

 

[seckcimike]

Before I start, what is "shef."

Step away from the coasts where $15 an hour is not a great wage and come out to the midwest where $15 an hour is plenty for a family to live on and these guys are working on farms for $5 an hour.

Lol so your saying every illegal aliens are working on farms, you obviously have no idea what goes on outside.

By the way, your employer should be punished for doing this, as well as any maganers that participate.

Hey thats life, survival of the fittest, you see people without papers tend to work more harder than the average person, cause they want to make it in life, achieve something.


Or they can pay nothing and still live here for 5-8 years doing what they do now.

Yea your right also, its their chose weather they want to pay or not.



A criminal history can invalidate you from citizenship. They all have a known criminal history by not entering the country legally, hence illegal immigrants.

For you to comment this, it tells me that you are very ignorant lol, obviously this is the issue we are talking about, use your common sense bro, im talking about act of violence like stealing, killing, stabbing.

 

[FoolKiller]

Lol so your saying every illegal aliens are working on farms, you obviously have no idea what goes on outside.

I'm looking around, but I don't see where I said that. I am pointing out that there will be plenty of them who cannot afford said penalty and fees. If you think they all make $15-$20 an hour you are mistaken.

Hey thats life, survival of the fittest, you see people without papers tend to work more harder than the average person, cause they want to make it in life, achieve something.

Are you saying average American citizens don't want to make it in life and achieve something?

Yea your right also, its their chose weather they want to pay or not.

So, why even bother if it isn't required? They can stay illegal or not? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, for multiple reasons, but it has to either be required by law, which means they chose to risk being deported, or it is not. Which is it?

For you to comment this, it tells me that you are very ignorant lol, obviously this is the issue we are talking about, use your common sense bro, im talking about act of violence like stealing, killing, stabbing.

I am using my common sense. If they will break one law because it is easier than the legal way you can't just grant them amnesty and assume they won't do it again.

Do we forgive people that steal because they just lost their job and have no other way to feed their family? No, we punish them and expect them to go about it the legal way. And we still count it as a crime.

 

[Danoff]

What are we gonna do deport millions of illegals that are living here already? that is physically impossible. Its a fact that we cannot control our border already from the get go.


The dream act was almost implemented in 01 but lost votes by 2 they needed 60 but only got 58. This law does not grant every illegal the rights to gain papers, there's specific rules like, must live here within 5 years prior to the law if its passed, have a high school diploma, no criminal records, maximum age i believe is 35, there's a procedure that must go into affect obviously.

Yea, offering them amnesty is inviting more to come across - even if we specifically say that the new guys don't get it. They'll come across expecting that we'll give it to them eventually (and they'll be right).

The proper way to handle illegal immigration is to abolish the income tax (in favor of a sales tax) and kill social welfare programs to make the playing field much more level. If they're on an equal footing (in terms of government burden) with the American taxpayer, it will start to stem the tide of influx.

That being said, it won't eliminate illegal immigration altogether. I think we need to make it easier for people to immigrate, and harder for people who do not do it properly (yes, deport as many of them as we can).

 

[seckcimike]

I forgot to mention this from the start this amnesty aims for the more young illegal aliens who where brought here by their parents, they had no choice.


LIKE I SAID THERE ARE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION TO ACQUIRE THIS! not every one can get it.

Please read this and educate your self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

 

[FoolKiller]

Before this immigration debate, which has nothing to do with President Obama as of this moment, goes further I suggest we take it to this thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92467

My response will be there and I will ignore further immigration debate in this thread.

 

[YSSMAN]

They are only providing enough to be justified as educational use. It is not the same service that can be find within a city limits. That is my biggest issue with the ECA pushing this as good for gamers, because it isn't, at least not until they specifically lay it out as such.

If you ask me, the whole notion of a gaming lobby (not gambling) is an absolute joke. Sure, they deserve to have their voices heard when it is prudent to their interests, but as you pointed out, this really isn't something for them to get into. Municipal internet services, however we wish to describe it, is a very different beast by comparison to the private connections we have at home. How we're planning on governing them, I assume, is very much up in the air.

Which reminds me:

WIRED had a great article about Comcast in there last week...

 

[FoolKiller]

If you ask me, the whole notion of a gaming lobby (not gambling) is an absolute joke. Sure, they deserve to have their voices heard when it is prudent to their interests, but as you pointed out, this really isn't something for them to get into. Municipal internet services, however we wish to describe it, is a very different beast by comparison to the private connections we have at home. How we're planning on governing them, I assume, is very much up in the air.

I agree. It works well for stopping video game content laws and helping to raise incentives for gaming companies to come to your state (which I am opposed to), but this is not a gaming issue. This is an information access issue. I guarantee that no politician has ever looked ata net neutrality debate and thought, "This will let Jim Bob play Horde Mode in Gears of War 2."

Which reminds me:

WIRED had a great article about Comcast in there last week...

I don't think Comcast could hurt their case more if they decided to openly support net neutrality.

When it comes to media in America the surest way to avoid regulation is self-regulation. Comcast really needs to talk to the movie, music, television and gaming groups about how this works. If you act responsibly toward your customers then the government is less likely to have a case to use against you.

 

[FoolKiller]

So, it looks like President Obama is happy to force energy efficiency regulations, but not do it himself.
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/energy-efficiency-and-a-president-in-shirtsleeves/

Energy Efficiency and a President in Shirtsleeves
By Kate Galbraith

My colleague, Sheryl Gay Stolberg, writes in this morning’s Times about the new fashion in the White House:

The capital flew into a bit of a tizzy when, on his first full day in the White House, President Obama was photographed in the Oval Office without his suit jacket. There was, however, a logical explanation: Mr. Obama, who hates the cold, had cranked up the thermostat.

“He’s from Hawaii, O.K.?” said Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Axelrod, who occupies the small but strategically located office next door to his boss. “He likes it warm. You could grow orchids in there.”

But on chilly winter days (like yesterday, when there was so much ice that the Obama daughters’ school closed), cranking up the heat to orchid-friendly temperatures seems the opposite of energy efficiency — something that Mr. Obama is pushing hard in the stimulus bill.

There’s a contrast here: in February 1977, just a few weeks after being sworn in, President Jimmy Carter delivered a speech on energy while perched beside a roaring fire and wearing a cardigan sweater. He was delivering a message of energy conservation at a time of natural-gas shortages.

A Time Magazine report from that period quoted an unnamed Wall Street executive as saying, “I don’t like a President in a sweater.”

The original story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/politics/29whitehouse.html?_r=1&hp

But it is really just comparing President Obama's more informal style to President Bush's formal style.

EDIT:

Just to add to my point:
From a campaign speech in May.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-wpxs1Re-8vx2Zk5xnYygW1W67w

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.

"That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added.

Apparently the White House is exempt.

Yes he can!!! Yes he can!!! Yes he can!!!

 

[livemusic]

Not at all times, just when he's there.

 

[YSSMAN]

I imagine the house is a bit drafty, it was (re)built in 1817 ya know...

Nevertheless, the point is key. He isn't exactly following through on what he talked about before. Although I do find that a lot of people (on both sides of the isle) are grabbing for straws when it comes to finding a bone to pick with either party. I think they're all acting like idiots right now, particularly the "grumpy" Republicans, and the Democrats who have gone into "we don't need to work together" mode. Neither frame of mind effectively gets things accomplished, and really only cranks the possibility for tantrums up to about eleven.

Although, this sparring match between Limbaugh and the Obama Administration has been funny.

 

[FoolKiller]

Nevertheless, the point is key. He isn't exactly following through on what he talked about before. Although I do find that a lot of people (on both sides of the isle) are grabbing for straws when it comes to finding a bone to pick with either party.

I think the thing is that this is happening while putting fuel efficieency measure in his stimulus plan, as in they discussed it in this heat.

It would be like President Bush throwing up a peace sign during an Iraq strategy meeting.

Although, this sparring match between Limbaugh and the Obama Administration has been funny.

Is this new sparring or same old, same old? I don't pay attention to Limbaugh outside of work and all we have gotten since he was popping pills was an interview with Tony Dungy. And when did he start doing interviews?

 

[Tornado]

From a campaign speech in May.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-wpxs1Re-8vx2Zk5xnYygW1W67w

I'm personally amazed that he said that in the first place.

 

[FoolKiller]

A co-worker just sent me this, knowing precisely what my reaction would be.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-middle-class31-2009jan31,0,822213.story

In signing orders aimed at protecting access to federal contracts for companies with labor unions and informing workers of their rights to organize, the president said, "I also believe that we have to reverse some of the policies" toward organized labor.

"I don't see organized labor as part of the problem," Obama said. "To me, it's part of the solution."

Go ahead Detroit, keep paying out benefits that you can't afford. That will solve your problems.

EDIT: Hurm.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/01/62036182/1

Obama is amused that his daughters' school closed today

When it comes to winter weather, President Obama just joked, "folks in Washington don't seem to be able to handle things."

They need, he added, some "flinty Chicago toughness."

The president, joking with reporters before a meeting he's having right now with business leaders at the White House, said he was amazed this morning to hear that his daughters' school (the private Sidwell Friends) is closed today because of icy streets and sidewalks in the nation's capital.

"My children's school was canceled today, because of what ... some ice?" he said. As one of his girls pointed out, Obama added, "in Chicago, school is never canceled. ... You'd go outside for recess. You wouldn't even stay indoors."

Update at 3:35 p.m. ET. The Associated Press has video of the president expressing his bewilderment.

Update at 11:55 a.m. ET: It seems fair to point out that a few "flinty" Chicago-area schools did close today or open late, though since the weather there is said to be 12 degrees and sunny, it seems unlikely that it was a major factor.

Come here and say that:

Can someone give me an Obama facepalm image?

Until then:

Polar Bear facepalm seems appropriate.

Next time, make sure your regional differences don't insult your new home town, Mr. President.

Anyone else remember when Eva Longoria called Hurricane Katrina a "little hurricane" before it hit New Orleans?

 

[Vasco]

A co-worker just sent me this, knowing precisely what my reaction would be.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-middle-class31-2009jan31,0,822213.story




Go ahead Detroit, keep paying out benefits that you can't afford. That will solve your problems.

Next time, make sure your regional differences don't insult your new home town, Mr. President.

Anyone else remember when Eva Longoria called Hurricane Katrina a "little hurricane" before it hit New Orleans?

God damn Obama is so stupid and such a failure lolololo, how can he ever be president if he does major things like this!!!

Did you miss the word joking in that second article?

 

[YSSMAN]

Is this new sparring or same old, same old? I don't pay attention to Limbaugh outside of work and all we have gotten since he was popping pills was an interview with Tony Dungy. And when did he start doing interviews?

Its pretty much been a back-and-forth thing between Limbaugh and Obama himself, Limbaugh saying that he "hopes Obama will fail," Obama saying that he hopes Republicans would stop listening to him and come together with Democrats... etc. Its been going on for two or three weeks now, and there are theories that the Obama Press folks are doing it to lure him out and make him look like an idiot in front of everyone.

Suppose that could be the same-ol-same-ol...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

RE: Ice in DC

Obama's from the Mid-West, stuff like this happens a lot... It was a pretty funny joke if you ask me!

 

[Tornado]

Obama saying that he hopes Republicans would stop listening to him and come together with Democrats... etc.

The Democrats don't even want to be with each other!

 

[FoolKiller]

Did you miss the word joking in that second article?

No, that is the point. He is making light of a situation that, in my state alone, left over 600,000 people without power, seven people dead, and businesses shut down in an economic crisis.

Last night I talked to friends in the western part of the state and they have been told that worst case scenario is a month before full power is restored.

Padon me if I missed the funny.

This is a guffaw on par with Dubya.

 

[Omnis]

Obama and Limbaugh are the same anyway. Limbaugh has contempt for Obama because his group lost possession of socialist control.

 

[Tornado]

Go ahead Detroit, keep paying out benefits that you can't afford. That will solve your problems.

I just thought of something: How will this effect the bailout stipulation that I believe said that UAW workers would have to lower their wages to the rate of foreign-owned plants?

 

[FoolKiller]

I just thought of something: How will this effect the bailout stipulation that I believe said that UAW workers would have to lower their wages to the rate of foreign-owned plants?

Their wages, while part of it, are not the big problem. It is the benefits packages. Detroit auto CEOs spend more time acting as pension and benefits managers than they do as automakers.

 

[YSSMAN]

I believe GM is already in the process of re-negotiating their terms with the UAW when it comes to benefits, but I don't know what the specifics of it has been. Nevertheless, it has priced them out of competition in some situations...

But, I believe that we would need to do an apples-to-apples comparison of current, non-legacy workers. I believe, and I'm not completely certain, but they are pretty similar between the UAW, Toyota and Honda.

 

[Solid Fro]

I have a question.

How do I, an American citizen, get my voice heard in opposition to Obama's stimulus spending bill? Obviously, throwing money to any political party is not the correct way to go. Bitching about it here on GTP is futile as well. How can I actually make a difference with visible results?