Oculus RIFT Head Mounted Display 90 Degree FOV

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oqvist
It's not super fast. There is a lot of monitors not just crts that has do low input lag you doesn't loose frames and is measured with the leo bodnar input lag tester. Remember it´s cake on a cake the monitor input lag is always added on top of what we have before.

Just look at the ffb lag we get on our crappy belt and cog driven wheels and how annoying that is :)

I am elitistic with my simracing I am sure it´s good enough for casual gaming :D
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Are you worried about 25 thousandths of a second input lag? It blows my mind anyone could tell the difference between 10-15 thousandths of a second.

Or are you talking about response time. Did they say the response time is 25ms on the rift? If that's the case then that is not very good at all.

But I wouldn't get hung up on 25 thousandths of a second input lag. I doubt Flash could even detect something taking 25 thousandths of a second to react to something.

I do though notice force feedback lag on my CSW but that's mechanical. It's completely different and much much slower than digital signals. I bet the lag on a sim wheel is over 100ms easily. I would love to see some measurements of that.

I understand your concern if putting layers of lag one on top of the other but I can't imagine 25ms being noticeable when it's input lag we're discussing.

I agree faster is better but I think we are at the point of diminishing returns. Even a flash of lighting takes much longer than 25ms to finish. It's up to 10 times that long for a flash of lightning that we see. I take all my gaming as far as I can. I've usually got the latest and greatest I can afford but this reminds me of people arguing over the speed of RC car servos. Some people swear they can tell the difference between a
.12 and a .17 servo rotation speed. I can't see anyone noticing their throttle moving 60 degrees .05 seconds faster than another one.

These are such crazy fast input times I can't imagine a human being able to tell.

I guess maybe where you're worried is if our screen is 25ms then we add a 15ms controller , 60ms steering wheel and 100ms online added latency for smoothing then it's getting bad.

I see that point of view but there's no way I would let 25ms keep me from buying one product.
 
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No I am talking about the time it spend from you from when something happening and you are seeing it on the screen. 25 ms is very noticable though it´s more something you feel. And as you know it´s added on top of input lag on your controllers etc what polling rate they use 100hz, 500hz or even lower.

For me I need under 20 ms for it to be hardly unnoticable. 25 ms is a full frame at the very least from 16 ms in general.

Try pinball, fps and racing input lag is very noticable for these genres.
 
John Carmack stated a lower goal than 25ms, he was confident and I'm confident they can do it. They also need to make this very smooth for non gamers. Many out there will sense some lag but won't know the technical reason and feel sick or not quite right.

I've ordered the DK2, was going to wait and see the competition but really want it. My original plan was to get the next dev kit as the original was too poor for me in resolution and motion blur of LCD. I still have a hard time using LCDs in general and very much agree with John Carmack on how bad they are.

Of course the CV will be much better but could be a little later now. I might sell DK2 a few months on, we'll see.

On another note, we racers and other cockpit related experiences know VR is great potential. Other aspects are non gaming, one I like is home design simulation and for others a calm relaxing place can be rendered to help people ie therapy and many more.

One obvious flaw I see is first person running games. It was said by many that VR is suited or limited to first person games and first person shooters but I see in the videos people get taken out of the illusion. The feeling of a virtual world and presnece is so convincing by accounts that actually walking forward or running is too wierd and breaks that great illusion and leads to a huge conflict from the user. The shark tank demo on PS4 was said to be great until that cage shook and then it takes you completely out of the experience. I know this is obvious to some but I see a growing problem/reaction from more "gamers" who try it..

I think cockpit games can be good without car movement/shaking and adding that is possible to create something amazing. The omni tread thing isn't really going to cut it for fps for many reasons.

I wonder what the average gamer is going to make of it as indeed myself having played games since the early 80s. Luckily I have racing, flight and space sims to fallback on, could it be those enthusiast genres and non gaming that use VR with a huge gap in the middle being fps and other games not seeing the benefit or novelty quickly wearing off?

Can't wait to find out. I thought way back that most core gamers could overide the flaw until we have some dream/brain like VR. I see myself getting great enjoyment out of playing Crysis or Half Life despite the big flaw becasue I'm well into games in general, hell even a side scroller I'm down.

Space games are probably the best on paper and this goes with the videos and feedback I've seen, it's an absolute lock for space simultion but very niche.
 
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I was sure I was not going to buy dev kit 1, and when they announced dev kit 2 I am also sure I will be able to wait for the consumer version. Having said that, I knew that there was a lot more work to be done from Dev kit 1 to CV, but I fear that there might not be a big enough jump in performance available between Dev kit 2 and CV to hope for too much from. I don't have anything to back this statement up, and its just my opinion but I just don't see a huge advance in small format panel resolution coming in time for implementation on the first Oculus Rift consumer version. There very well might be, and I hope I am proved wrong, but it just seems like what they've got now with Dev kit 2 they just need to tweak a little and get it out to consumers before the competition comes out with a hurry up product to beat them to the punch.
 
Well there's lots of ergonomic improvements. Also 85 to 120hz.

Sweating is a problem as is sometimes you will want to see the real outside for world for a second if you drop something or whatever. You could have side bits that untint at a press of a button.

I've thought that CV2 onwards would be the best time to buy one if you're short of funds and also tech catches up. With the screen so close it probably needs to be around 4k res for non to little screen door, not sure.

For me even just using it for Euro truck is worthwhile but I also dabble in Unity plus can give feedback for niche space games etc.
 
I just pray it´s not close but no cigarr when it comes down to it lol.

How much would the price go up if they did a redesign and went with two panels one for each eye? That would double the resolution just there. 4K OLED panels I don´t expect to be common anytime soon. Why would you ever need such a display on a mobile phone :P
 
oqvist
4K OLED panels I don´t expect to be common anytime soon. Why would you ever need such a display on a mobile phone :P
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You don't need 1440p on a phone either, yet such devices are starting to come out now. Even 1080p on 5" phones feels overkill compared to 720p, yet that is the way technology and marketing works. For average consumer it's bigger numbers = better product!

4K phones and tablets are certainly coming, might not happen in one year or two, but they will be made.
 
I am sure they will be made sometime but certainly not in time for the Rift.

1080p I say do make kind of sense for a 5" as in you can tell a difference 10 cm apart but I am quite fine with my 720p Note 2 so I am not really disagreeing with you :)

Anyway we could hope they would release two versions. Average consumer is a cheapass so I can understand they want to stick with their 399$ target or whatever but would be cool if they could release an enthusiast version on top of that. Question would it be hard to integrate software wise a one panel budget version vs a two panel one?
 
fatkrakr
I thought the Rift used 2 screens already. :confused:
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Just 1.
There's a reason besides price why the claim they're using just one but I can't remember why. It tells about it in the oculus forums. Oculus is also saying they won't need to take leftover displays from cell phones now since having much more resources from the Facebook buyout and will produce their own screens. If they will be on the first consumer version or not I don't think they said for sure.

They also said they will stick to just one version. They claim they are doing this because they will not release an inferior product. The one they release will be as good as they can make it.

No can't remember if that part was on the forum or from the CEO on reddit answering questions.

Really, anything you want to know about the rift was answered by the main man on reddit right after the buyout. He was in there for days replying to hundreds of people's worries.

I think it's going to work out. VR needs a great product. If it's anything short of amazing it won't work. It's failed so many times before because of horrible hardware. I don't think they will let that happen again
 
chromatic9
I've ordered the DK2, was going to wait and see the competition but really want it. My original plan was to get the next dev kit as the original was too poor for me in resolution and motion blur of LCD. I still have a hard time using LCDs in general and very much agree with John Carmack on how bad they are.
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Well it should be great news then that it appears they've gone for low-persistence oled for the DK2.
 
Good work mate, hope someone can give it a run and report back, am very interested as I have a DK2 on order.

Cheers, AussieStig
 
That Superbike TT project do sound interesting. Could be hazardous if you get those controllers you sit on and get to involved with the leaning :D
 
museumsteve
Hell yeah (I mean no I am still buying one)...why would the FB buyout make any difference? I wont be buying Candy Crush for it though :D
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I don't know man, I don't think I'm buying one anymore after seeing FB buying it. I just have this feeling that it won't end up great.
I'm looking at sonys VR headset now, I might buy that instead for my PS4
 
Bk9JMqpIMAA7tKK.jpg:large


Can't tell which game is being demo'd there. Could be iracing again. Although if it is, it would still be at 1280*800 since you don't get resolution options with iracing.
 
Ferrari458Italia
I don't know man, I don't think I'm buying one anymore after seeing FB buying it. I just have this feeling that it won't end up great.
I'm looking at sonys VR headset now, I might buy that instead for my PS4
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The problem I have with Sony's headset is it depends on software support and I have a feeling it would be like 3D and PS3, it was tacked on and didn't really work very well and no developers really supported it.
The Rift will remain PC based and I just think it stands more chance of being a success :)
Anyway, after loving the Rift (DK1) since it came out, for me a DK2 is a no-brainer
 
Paul33993
Bk9JMqpIMAA7tKK.jpg:large


Can't tell which game is being demo'd there. Could be iracing again. Although if it is, it would still be at 1280*800 since you don't get resolution options with iracing.
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It could be Assetto Corsa, they've added a status to their FB page saying it's on show at PAX with Oculus :)
 
/\

Nice catch. That's even better, because it's more likely to be at 1080p then.

Personally, I'm really hoping AC Rift support is as good as iracing by the time my DK2 arrives. AC is honestly my favorite sim right now.
 
Ferrari458Italia
I don't know man, I don't think I'm buying one anymore after seeing FB buying it. I just have this feeling that it won't end up great.
I'm looking at sonys VR headset now, I might buy that instead for my PS4
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Just like mueseumsteve says.

I'm interested in the PS4 one too but it will not get near the support that a PC version of VR will. Even if Morpheus is better hardware there is no way it will have the games the rift will. I still can't imagine many console players buying a VR headset. You can't even get most console players to buy a steering wheel let alone something you have to wear on your head. Plus if there's not millions of them sold no one will support it with software for very long. Console players complain about a $400-$500 console price tag. I can't imagine them buying a several hundred dollar pair of goggles to wear. At least that's the way 99% of them will look at it.

I really think Sony will have to have a super aggressive advertising campaign to get it to work. Every store that sells games will need one in it to demo. They will need to get them on peoples heads to sell them. You just can't imagine the leap forward VR has taken until you've seen it and most people have no idea what true VR looks like now.

PC people are crazy though. They buy anything.
 
/\

I don't possibly see how it's going to be better anyways. 1080p is fine for a dev kit, but it really does seem like 1440p is the minimum for decent IQ in VR. A single panel 1440p @90 degrees FOV (and it'll be at least 100 degrees) has the same resolution per degree as the Sony HMZ-T1. And even that is kind of pixelly. Then there's the framerate issue. You can stick with 60fps, but if you do, you're going to have to use sample and hold and have motion blur during any head movement. Low persistence at 60hz would be migraine inducing and just isn't an option. I even worry about long term usage with 75hz in DK2.

But people have to make their own choices. I don't think there are many corporations that qualify for sainthood. Probably not any. And certainly not Sony. So it doesn't bother me that Facebook is their new overlord.
 
Here's the future of PC gaming panel session at pax. It has Palmer on it but he doesn't say a whole lot about the rift.
 

DK2 at pax east

I think 3-4k is needed for the screen door. I hope Assetto Corsa can have some major performance improvements. Running 85fps at 1080 is way off with half decent image quality. 4K at 85fps + would need some crazy hardware.

Good news is running other games at 2-4K is pretty easy right now and will only get better over the next 2 years.

edit


Palmer mentions targeting 90hz and higher than 1080p for the CV. He's very tired in the video and there's background noise going on be warned its not the best video.

Palmer on facebook

Should allay any doubts :)
 
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It doesn't take away any of my concerns. Today our traders were informed of Facebook applying for a patent for some sort of ad technology for "Immersive devices". Don't know the validity of the source, it comes through one of our news feeds. So I'm still weary.
 
I'm still not too worried. I'd expect them to make a FB front end for it to fit in with the store front the Rift will more than likely have but I have no concerns about adverts popping up when we're racing :) They'd need the permission of the game developers for starters. I'd expect them to have normal ads that you get when playing the silly FB games :)
 

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