Official Mission Hall Thread (help, hints, general discussion, etc.)

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H3avyM3tal
I don't think it's that easy. There is no way that PAL will get this much head start.
So how is it that everyone gets similar results?

Edit: btw, I would like it if some of you would tell me how I did, based on my splits and pictures I posted. If anyone would be kind enough. :dopey:

How many seconds do you have to wait during mission 34? If your first split time is 1:42xx, i am very possitive that you have the PAL version with 115 second of waiting.
 
I just thought it a little weird that the C5R has dominated the GTS class in Lemans for the last 4 years, yet mission 12, mostly full of Lemans GTS class cars, has the Corvette in 2nd behind the Viper. Now, I've tried to not be too vocal about PD leaving out a certain '05 model year chevrolet when the '05 Fords somehow managed to make it in (TEACHER'S PET!!), or the significantly faster '06 high performance model and its race version. But to keep the cars in the same position as they would have been in GT3? Are they just not paying attention? Or do they have it out for Chevy?
 
wfooshee
This is too weird. I have the NA game, but my Mission 18 time was 9:10.896, just passing the Sauber at the last chicane. I was "questioned" :) about my time in a message in the big Mission Hall thread but it took laps in the 2:58 range to win. My Reply to that post.

Was it a PAL replay you saw?

As for advice on getting those coupla seconds, don't miss the braking point at the Mulsanne corner (end of the very long straight), straightline the chicanes as much as possible, even to the point of completely crossing the curbs. The red surface is OK.

Hey, thanks for the advice. I tried straight lining the chicanes and it did cut my time, but I'm still missing it just by the odd second. Think I will get there soon. Another surprise I found; I did say that the Sauber C9 was finishing 9.09, then in one of my tries tonight it finished 9.08 something. This is weird...I thought the AI cars always finished at a fixed time. Hope it doesn't get better as I do better. Just wondering if anyone else experience this.

About the video I saw, it came from one of the mission thread "driving mission 11 - 15" in the forum. Here's the link

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62264&highlight=driving+mission

Video link

http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/gt4_videos.htm#mission.

Clearly you can see the finish time of 9.26. I'm not sure what the version is, but would like that time to work on my version.

Just don't understand why PD made such a large adjustment in this mission. I can accept that in mission 34 there were some 3 second difference, but to be 20+ seconds it just unbelieveable.
 
H3avyM3tal
You are correct.

That explains it. PAL SLR leaves after 115 seconds, NA SLR leaves after 123 seconds. 8 seconds definately makes the mission more harder. Maybe you can try to beat that old SL300 by a margin of 8 seconds, see how you do on that. I've seen someone with best NA time is 9:09xxx, if you put that time on PAL version, it will be 9:09-0:08, that gives you a time of 9:01 at the finish line. So.....
 
This mission took me 4 hours to master. But in the end I am a better driver for it.

What finally worked for me was changing my driving view to the "in car" view where you see the nose of your car. It helped me to hit the apex of the turns better and cut them faster.

In the corners before the long straight I targeted to be going through them at at least 40 mph (sometimes more) as this is where I found I was losing ground.

Now if I can only beat that Viper in mission 12.

(BTW I just got the game last week so I'm not as far into it as most people.)
 
I think that it's not as simple as 8 seconds. Something is fishy here...
I am investigating, and it will help all of us if some of you look into the matter aswell...

This whole 8 seconds issue make it look like all PAL users are not as good as NTSC users...

It's not right.
 
i was looking at the so called "daanm34" video, i was like "how could this piece of **** driving win this mission!!??" , i'm driving way better than him at every corner and still just passed the last car right before the finish line

so i think it's just the 8sec earlier, with a worse driving, end up the same time at the finish line
 
Here's my notes for Mission 18. Hope it helps

----------
Mission 18
----------

(3/21) Watch the demo in license S-15 first!!

This is by far the hardest mission. I spent a good 3 hours before beating it.
This mission is almost equivalent to getting silver (if not gold) in 3 straight
tries in S-15, plus the complexity of overtaking at 200mph....

Your Nissan R92CP Race Car with 939HP is indeed overpowering the rest of the
fields, but the 32+ seconds deficit is almost too much to overcome. The test
venue is Circuit de la Sarthe II (the kinkless version). The course looks
incredibly narrow when you are traveling at 180+ mph.

Refer to http://www.racingcircuits.net/France/LeMans87.html about the name
of the corners.

Approaching the first chicane, brake much later than the downshift indicator.
Find a line so that you can brake once into gear 2 and accelerate out of the
chicane. For the esses, brake at the moment the red indicator flashes and take
the left-right at no lower than gear 3.

If you can't reach the first checkpoint on the Mulsanne Straight within 30.3
seconds from the lead car, you will probably not be able to pass the 5th car
before the end of the straight. If you can't pass it before the straight, it
is very likely that you will lose too much time trying to battle it in the
Mulsanne 90-degree right hander. If you can't get within 27 seconds when you
hit the checkpoint just after the corner, it's probably time to restart.

The next section before Indianapolis is very narrow. Putting a tyre on the
grass will throw you off spinning. I took the right bend before Indianapolis
at gear 4 (instead of 5) and Indianapolis at gear 2. Brake early for Arnage
and take it no lower than gear 2.

The next section is when the S-15 demo will really help. It consists of a
series of light bends (Porsche Curve, Maison Blanche) which can be taken at
relatively high speed, most of them at gear 4. If you are not familiar with
the timing of the curve enough, it's very easy to get thrown off in the sand,
or slow down too much.

The two Ford chicanes should be taken at gear 3 and gear 2 respectively. My
split times at the finish line are: +23.299, +11.984 and -0.176. I barely
took the lead car's inside at the last chicane (in fact, the right in the
left-right chicane, no less) at the last lap. So these splits are probably the
minimum requirement for beating this mission.

Caught up with the ... car at ...
5th: first lap, mid Mulsanne straight
4th: second lap, starting grid
3rd: second lap, straight after Arnage
2nd: third lap, before esses
1st: third lap, before finish, by a hair

Checkpoints:
1: After esses, before Tertre Rouge
2: Mulsanne Straight 1
3: Mulsanne Straight 2
4: right after Mulsanne 90-degree right hander
5: Arnage
6: Porsche Curve
7: finish line

Checkpoint Times:
1st lap: +31.632 +29.570 +27.812 +26.458 +25.866 +24.988 +23.299
2nd lap: +20.466 +18.270 +16.633 +15.243 +14.947 +13.213 +11.984
3rd lap: +9.847 +7.647 +6.042 +4.690 +3.948 +2.080 -0.176

My time: 9:11.867
AI time: 9:12.043
 
H3avyM3tal
I think that it's not as simple as 8 seconds. Something is fishy here...
I am investigating, and it will help all of us if some of you look into the matter aswell...

This whole 8 seconds issue make it look like all PAL users are not as good as NTSC users...

It's not right.

I am not trying to say that PAL users aren't as good as NA users. Because I know a couple of PAL users went back and redid the mission with 8 or 9 seconds of leading margin. But when you said the mission isnt all that difficult, I think it upsets me a little, because you have a easier version.
 
H3avyM3tal
I think that it's not as simple as 8 seconds. Something is fishy here...
I am investigating, and it will help all of us if some of you look into the matter aswell...

This whole 8 seconds issue make it look like all PAL users are not as good as NTSC users...

It's not right.

Have the actual split times of the cars been compared? Not the interval SLR to lead, but actual elapsed time. I would bet (blindly, since I don't know) that the times are not identical between versions, but I'm just guessing. If the other cars run differently, then the 8-second start difference is to accomodate that. Not that anyone wants to play the replay all the way through from each car's point of view. . . . .


OR

Is the SLR the same in both versions? No way to know, but is the setup the same, the tires, whatever other settings might be diddled by those who created the game?
 
There have always been differences in the target times of different versions of GT. Previously this only really affected people going for Gold in the license tests. In most cases the PAL version has had the hardest Gold times. In GT3 the PAL version required about 4 seconds quicker on the final S License test, and this was for a lap of about a minute and a half. It seems that in GT4 the PAL developers took note that M34 was giving a lot of people problems and considering it is required for 100%, they have made it more achievable for the average player. It still requires some skill and a good knowledge of the circuit, but is now more on a par with the other missions.
 
I just finished mission 34 a couple of days ago. US version, 123 seconds wait, using the DualShock 2 controller, auto transmission, not using the R2 button. Just to add on to other people's comment: It's possible!

It took me 2 months (in real time) and about 250+ tries to finally beat it. I tried a lot of strategies found in this board, including cutting grass and wall-riding in different places. Eventually I decided to only do the wall-riding in Karussell and no grass-cutting. For my driving style, I feel that the grass cutting is either slowing me down and lowering my percentage of actually making the turn faster. But it may be just me and you may find other style more suitable for you.

This mission also gives me a good course of anger management. I learned how to control my anger much better towards the end of the pursuit. What I realize is, if you are angry about certain randomness which ruins your so-far perfect run, you are just not good enough anticipating that randomness.

My advice is that, you pretty much have to understand, for every single turn in the course, what is the way to get through it in a "fast" way, in an "average" way and in a "slow" way. Of course, by trying to go through a corner in a "fast" way, you have a higher probability of spinning out and lose even more time. But if you opt to go through the turn in a "slow" but "sure" way, you will never make it to 1st place. You just have to find the balance and acknowledge the randomness.

Here are my final split times:

1: +1:50.045
2: +1:41.273
3: +1:33.971
4: +1:21.165
5: +1:08.762
6: +0:57.574
Pass SL65 AMG
7: +0:41.257
Pass SL 500
8: +0:32.199
9: +0:26.057
Pass 190E 2.5
10: +0:14.413
11: +0:05.917
Pass SLK 230
Pass 300SL
12: -0:00.308
 
The Viper in the game is an older Team Oreca version, which dominated in its time when it was factory-backed. All of the Vipers run now are privately funded teams while the dominant Corvette teams are factory-backed. Unfortunately, the full-blown factory teams didn't compete against each other :( As to which would be faster, who knows? Lap times anyone?

Oh yeah, and I'm a little upset about the lack of newer American cars in the game (2005 400hp GTO anyone?), but that's neither here nor there...it's actually in a lot of other threads.
 
Well, I managed to write down some of the split times of the leading car (300 SL):

This times are not on the same exact perfect timing with the player's splits, and they also include the splits towards the second car (SLK 230):

JUST RUN YOUR REPLAY AND WATCH THE 300 SL FOR REFERENCE

1:04 --> (a couple seconds later, split towards SLK 230 is -0:09:037 err I think)
1:46 --> (-0:08:301)
2:22 --> (-0:08:089)
3:27 --> (-0:07:778)
4:19 --> (-0:07:317)
4:57 --> (-0:06:317)

can't remember the splits in places when driving the SLR, so I'll just write down the splits towards the SLK...

-0:05:021
-0:04:277
-0:03:485

This split is right after I enterd the stright with the SLR:

8:18 --> (Right after that metal construction, split for the 300 SL was -0:02:703)

The final split for the 300 SL:

-0:02:960

It finished the lap in around 9 min and 18 seconds.
 
stan394
...It took me 2 months (in real time) and about 250+ tries to finally beat it...

Exactly why I've given up on Mission 34 entirely. I'll never be able to pass it, so I'll just admire those who do. The only thing I don't like about it is that I'll never get the R89C. Oh, well...

Its great that the game has this in it, though. Frankly, it needs a few more challenges as tough as this one.
 
Yeah, that's why I tried to not go into it too much (;)). But I do agree with you--I just think it's kinda whack. The C5R is no longer the factory team, but I believe they are still placing above the viper entries. Yes, that's very recent news, but the vettes were still running circles around everything else out there for the last 4 years--why no respect? And I know the vettes set lap records several times--I doubt the viper actually ran faster laps. On top of that, the vettes keep getting heavier (penalty weight for winning). And they still keep winning.
 
I can answer your question Wildboar about AI times changing. They are not the same all the time as I learned the hard way. On one of my best M 34 runs I finished in 9:13:03. Unfortunately the AI finished that run in 9:12: something. When I finally beat it, I ran in 9:12 and he ran a low 9:13 (I didn't hit him in either run either.). So it does vary.
 
What's also ciritical in this mission, find spots where you know exactly when you need to brake. If I remember right (I'm at work right now), after the finish line, when it goes to the first left corner, I break right at that umbrella (sun shade) on the left side. In the first lap, you can break slightly after that, because the car is not that fast there.

The first corner after the second longer straight, I again look at the sun shades on the left as my breakin point.

Also the 180 corner before the long straight finish line is critical, you can make a couple seconds there. My spot was one of those last pedestrian cross walks.
 
Well, I just gave mission 34 another try after completing it a couple of days ago. This time I stuck to the rules and did not use any cheats whatsoever and stayed on track the whole time (except for a mistake near the end which cost me about 2 seconds), I even took the carousel normally and not with wallriding. I bumped an opponent once to pass him, the others I passed fairly without touching.
My final time was 9:12.456, the 300SL had a time of 9:17.847.

Section times:
+ 1:43.353
+ 1:35.130
+ 1:27.465
+ 1:14.698
+ 1:02.736
+ 0:51.058
+ 0:36.387
+ 0:27.502
+ 0:23.086
+ 0:10.681
+ 0:02.045


PAL version btw.
 
Zardoz
Exactly why I've given up on Mission 34 entirely. I'll never be able to pass it, so I'll just admire those who do. The only thing I don't like about it is that I'll never get the R89C. Oh, well...

Its great that the game has this in it, though. Frankly, it needs a few more challenges as tough as this one.

Come on Zardoz, have some confindence. You know I thought about the same thing (giving up) at beginning. My very first attempt was 30+ seconds behind the SL300, I figured i did bad because I dont know the course well and the car. I started practice more, then I found out this mission is NOT easy at all. Because after practice on my own, i was only managed to finish with 12 seconds behind the SL300. I started thinking just like you, I will never beat this mission. (i thought i have gaven everything i could.) But on the other hand I dont want to give up, because I want the R89 also the Black F1 when you complete the game 100%, also I dont believe other people can beat it but I can't. So I began to search around and I found 2 awesome write up (in write up threads) from Dori-San and one other guy. I was compairing my split times with theirs and found out where I was losing time. They also tell you some of the critical turns and how you can encounter them. And guess what, those critical turns were exactly where I have been losing time. (one turn can makes 2-3 seconds diff.) I was finally beat that mission recently, now there is nothing stands in between me and 100%. I think you can do it too.
 
Zardoz
Exactly why I've given up on Mission 34 entirely. I'll never be able to pass it, so I'll just admire those who do. The only thing I don't like about it is that I'll never get the R89C. Oh, well...

Its great that the game has this in it, though. Frankly, it needs a few more challenges as tough as this one.

Yes I can understand that. This thought happens to me about 1 month since my first try, when I am stuck at around 10-12 seconds off for like almost 2 weeks with no improvement at all. I thought about giving up, or at least until I am stuck at 99.8% completion before re-trying. But somewhere in some other boards, I read a comment "play like as if you have already beat it". I try again with a different mindset. Took it much slower around corners, basically doing the lap in an entirely different mood. The times is worse (like 15+ seconds off) but the feeling is different. I am having fun again just running the SLR again.

I also used to fall into a trap of split-time watching. I get easily upset when I didn't hit a certain target time in the first 1-2 splits and it affects my mood greatly so I never get a clean run at later splits. I keep telling myself, "I should have been able to hit that time but I didn't". Later I realize I have to try something different. I then continue even if I hit a 5-second penalty. I continute even if I make a 360-spin. Just to complete the lap and practice the turns in the latter half of the course. Take advantage of the ability of continuing even after a spin-out, which you don't get this luxury in license tests.

Split-time watching is also dangerous because once I hit a perfect time in the first 2 splits, I would feel my heart pumping madly and generally getting way too excited to focus.

I know this is all easier said than done. But I did learn a lot about myself during the run. You would be really proud of yourself if you really achieve it. It may be one heck of a life experience. I know it sounds stupid as it's just moving fingers and watching a TV, but you can get the most out of the experience.
 
Zardoz
Don't get me started:

http://www.granturismobynumbers.com/ubb/Forum46/HTML/000187.html

Scroll to the end of the rant and the first of the two possible "conversations".
Thanks for providing the link. Your rant was articulate and the theoretical ‘conversations’ were humorous. I scrolled way past your post and I thought that WorldTour’s initial post, where he indicated that he was the person who lined up Ford NA vehicles to be photographed for GT4, was very informative. In particular, this paragraph:

WorldTour
"It always kinda irritates me when people get pissed about how many of a certain car is in the game while others are not found, and they quickly blame the makers of the game. Blame the manufacturers of the cars for not pushing for their cars in the game or by not giving a break on the license fees."".

Read his entire post for additional information....but I sense that you have probably already done that.
 
i get what your saying, but at the end of the day gran turismo is a japanese game, and it is KY's dream. wouldnt you expect your dreams to be how you imagine them? if you dont like it, you can always get off his cloud. im happy here (even if i cant see the forrest for skylines!)
i do agree that there are too many skylines, lancers and scoobies, but you propose that PD have less japanese cars and include more american cars. thats no different. then you would have some russian guy pop up saying that there were no trabants etc KY and PD will never be able to satisfy everyone, there will always be one dissenting voice in the background no matter what cars where included/omitted.
to be honest, im not too bothered where the cars come from, they just have to be different. i bet when gt5 comes out (and sony finally get the licences for ferrari, lamborghini, and porsche), you will have someting to say about the fact that there are too many of them in the game, because you know PD will go to town on all three makes when they finally get the license.
over the whole gran turismo series, PD has tried to be more inclusive, using many different makes and models, from many countries, but at its core, gran turismo is and always will be japanese. i just did a quick look at the forza website, and that game was made in america, but still they have a very large contingent of japanese cars. wouldnt it be more worth while lobbying them (afterall, it was developed in anmerica), than complaining about a japanese game having too many japanese cars in it?
 
wfooshee
This is too weird. I have the NA game, but my Mission 18 time was 9:10.896, just passing the Sauber at the last chicane. I was "questioned" :) about my time in a message in the big Mission Hall thread but it took laps in the 2:58 range to win. My Reply to that post.

Was it a PAL replay you saw?

I questioned your time. Obviously there is a difference in the versions (I have PAL) and after seen your pics I don't question it anymore. The time differences seem to be spread around the game.

Which reminds me that I found a product that claims to convert PAL games to NTSC so that you can benefit from 'faster gaming' inherent in NTSC systems. It is not very specific but it implies that since NTSC has more frames per second you actually get to see more of the game and makes it easier to win.

Unfortunately I can't find the link now
:grumpy:

Could this explain why the NTSC version is given more 'disfavourable' conditions in some races? NTSC has more frames per second so you should need less time to win?

BTW I think that the time difference is there in all races but it is only obvious in long missions where small differences accummulate.
 
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