On par with GT5 premium cars? sure!

[brainfade]

You're wrong on the physics btw, they're actually very advanced, but they didn't do the best job getting it through to the user (they made it 'playable' for the console gen.)... I'm really hoping they fix the default tunes of all the cars in the first patch, it will go a long way to improving the perception of the handling.

Being a Victorian I suspect you have a pretty cool head on your shoulders unlike some of the fanboys on here

On a serious note about the physics, its miles off, theres 4 cars in the game that I had the pleasure of working on in the past, one of which is now being driven by RattijuoppoFIN funnily enough and I have to say that YES the physics are advanced as you need an advanced physics model to have any kind of physics in a racing game, but, and this is a BIG Matthew-Hayden-Backfoot-Bludgeoned-Six-Sized but: NO the physics are not advanced in realism at all and heres why:

The GT cars are all generally well balanced machines (save for the Alpina M6 GT3 which suffers from tyre blistering and heavy understeer), they are aero treated with a generously sized tunnel section on their diffusers and it really is very hard to enduce a oversteer or powerslide or even a drift in these cars as they have neutral handling with just a very very small touch of oversteer because it's what the drivers like and its also better for the tyres and it helps the cars performance in general over a long period of time.

In Shift 2 however, for some reason the cars are very ragged and loose as if they've been left out on slicks at a wet race, they very tail happy and unstable to a ridiculous level. What you're really experiencing here is nothing like the GT cars, the GT cars are very easy cars to drive and they close the gap between amateurs and pros. I have to be brutally honest and repeat what Peter Dumbreck said about this game and that "these physics would be more appropriate for a Trophy Andros sim!" ....Peter Dumbreck as you know is famous for flipping the Merc at Le Mans and is a big online gamer and is right up there with the likes of Bernd Schneider and Antony Bartels when it comes to GT racing.

...and thats about it really, this game is a good spectacle, its definitely one of the most fun games out there, but it really is strange seeing cars you've worked on/for handling the complete opposite of what they should, if they did handle like that, I'll tell you straight I probably would have gotten a black eye from all the drivers! LOL

 

[JediRage]

You know, honestly I am tired of hearing this excuse. The same was said about GT4 on the PS2, the same is said with GT5 on the PS3. Guess what, you all are going to continue to say it every single time, no matter what generation PS GT hits. Stop making excuses for PD. They need to be accountable for what they produce. The got themselves in a bind. They started the premium war and now they will die by it. Every GT title that release will need to be premium, if not, they will get hounded for it. If they were smart, they would have approached it like SMS. Make medium to low ended higher poly count model. This will allow them to do so much more in their racing environment. They got out classed by SMS as far as what you can do overall in the racing world.

Graphics - GT5>S2U
Physics - GT5=S2U (this varies, some like to push a car to its limits, others like a car that sticks to the road)
Gameplay,options, longevity, customization, tracks, car selection,special effects, competitive A.I. - GT5<<<<<S2U.



With all this said, GT5 should look better. They spent 5 years doing the game. On top of that ,the premium cars and most of the track graphics is about the only things they did right. There is a novel of things wrong with GT5. Take a look a the GT5 feedback section of this site. Graphics and physics are the only true complaints for S2U. But these two alone isn't exactly making or breaking a game. The race thrill is there. Can't say that for GT. The medium+ detail of S2U, allows for soo much more with what goes on while racing on a track. I will take medium detail with a great racing experience in a heart beat vs a nice scenic ride on track to look at the pretty graffiti. For me GT5 disappointed me so much that I don't even remember how it looks. I haven't played it since the end of last year.

Spot on 👍

 

[JediRage]

Here's my take on what I think are very lazy renders, it seems that EA/SMS dont render cars as they are supposed to look in real life, rather, they seem to render them with these in mind:

- what saves time
- what we can get away with
- what we think is cool/how we think the car should look

EA/SMS do seem to render the cars to appear however they please rather than give us something that looks real.

There are some english mistakes in the images as i rushed it! LOL

Is this guy serious?

(P.S.:Sorry for double post)

 

[brainfade]

Is this guy serious?

(P.S.:Sorry for double post)

Like is said before... it was done for a laugh, not intended to be taken seriously by you fanboys who think you know how a car should handle just because you used a joy pad to lap the nurburgring in under 8mins

 

[HeadsoupBob]

^ Do you think those bad handling characteristics could just be down to bad default tunes? I started a thread on this because I think it's most of the problem. One of the guys at nogrip got into the physics files and found that in general there was extra downforce applied on cars that shouldn't have had it, and also some incorrect data, but otherwise I believe the engine itself is really capable of producing fairly accurate physics.

Did you try tuning to GT cars to the specs you would run them and see if that works? - Although that's made harder by the generic numbers used for some tuning settings...

Considering Shift 2 is based off the same gmotor2 engine used in the most 'hardcore' sims that are regarded as most accurate, you'd have to at least acknowledge that the capabilities are there to produce something quite realistic, if not an advancement...

 

[CarreraGT]

Like is said before... it was done for a laugh, not intended to be taken seriously by you fanboys who think you know how a car should handle just because you used a joy pad to lap the nurburgring in under 8mins

Are you saying you know better?

 

[brainfade]

^ Do you think those bad handling characteristics could just be down to bad default tunes? I started a thread on this because I think it's most of the problem. One of the guys at nogrip got into the physics files and found that in general there was extra downforce applied on cars that shouldn't have had it, and also some incorrect data, but otherwise I believe the engine itself is really capable of producing fairly accurate physics.

Did you try tuning to GT cars to the specs you would run them and see if that works? - Although that's made harder by the generic numbers used for some tuning settings...

Its just bad physics, theres no real way around this as the figures your getting in the game are just bollocks, it's got the Sumo Power GTR's top speed as 170mph which is also bollocks, it's the quickest car in a straight line in FIA GT1, the cars seem to have been attributes purely at random.

The Buggati Veyron should NEVER be faster then the GT1 cars no matter how much you mod and set them up as it would still be massively overweight and it's a car that by nature is only designed to go quickly in a straightline and suffers from chronic understeer, nor should the Zonda R as its not a really a race car and has been found to be a fair few seconds slower than the tail end of the GT1 field (by which I mean 5-10secs).

I don't know too much about the engine, but it probably may be capable of producing decent physics, the physics you have in this game are mainly down to the marketing direction they took with the game, they didn't aim for realism, they aimed for visual spectacle, this games aimed at two demographics:

1) whats widely refered to as the 'Ken Block market' the market of people who think drifting is the be all and end all of cars, not knowing the pure reality check that Ken Block is getting in WRC

2) the gamer market, the guys who play FPS games and think they know it all and know their cars just because they stole a bunch of cars for a bisexual called Brucie Kabbutz < quite a few of these on the forum, they're even stupid enough to argue against people who race for real. If an F1 driver publicly joined this forum and stated a few facts here and there, these idiots would still open their mouths.

Are you saying you know better?

Not really, those two jpegs and the whole post in general was sarcasm.

 

[CarreraGT]

Not really, those two jpegs and the whole post in general was sarcasm.

I see... Well you put some effort into it I'll give you that.

I was referring to the fanboy comment though. Do you have driving experience or are just a fanboy yourself? Personally I think the word is overused...

 

[HeadsoupBob]

I think that they stuffed up a lot of the data by trying to make the cars competitive and remove the 'killer' cars that dominate leaderboards etc. The data certainly isn't 100% accurate (in Shift 1 Overhaul Mod 2 went a long way to fix that, hopefully can be done for Shift 2), but I believe the potential is there. GT5 on the other hand did a good job of 'guessing' what driving the cars is like, but is way off the mark with it's physics underneath (no tyre width/size modelled, bugger all suspension modelling, 'better' tyres just given higher grip ratings as a number). That's where I guess the two are opposite, but still both good in experience for a lot of people.

 

[JediRage]

Like is said before... it was done for a laugh, not intended to be taken seriously by you fanboys who think you know how a car should handle just because you used a joy pad to lap the nurburgring in under 8mins

Did you just call me a fanboy?

And did you just diss the environments in Shift 2? Does the name Autumn Ring ring a bell? As for the blur/fog thing, recall Cape Ring.

 

[brainfade]

I see... Well you put some effort into it I'll give you that.

I was referring to the fanboy comment though. Do you have driving experience or are just a fanboy yourself? Personally I think the word is overused...

I have a hefty portfolio in motorsport itself, mainly in endurance/GT in the engineering side of things, I rarely get to drive the cars and I do alot of club racing, track days and tests, rarely deputised for drivers when they can't attend tests.

It is an overused word, but theres no other way to describe them without getting offensive.

I think that they stuffed up a lot of the data by trying to make the cars competitive and remove the 'killer' cars that dominate leaderboards etc. The data certainly isn't 100% accurate (in Shift 1 Overhaul Mod 2 went a long way to fix that, hopefully can be done for Shift 2), but I believe the potential is there. GT5 on the other hand did a good job of 'guessing' what driving the cars is like, but is way off the mark with it's physics underneath (no tyre width/size modelled, bugger all suspension modelling, 'better' tyres just given higher grip ratings as a number). That's where I guess the two are opposite, but still both good in experience for a lot of people.

Absolutely, if they pull their finger out they could turn this around into a pretty decent semi-sim, I don't think they did it to prevent the killer cars, with FIA GT1 there really isn't a 'killer car' it's more to do with the car way the drivers get on with it, Vitaphone Maserati won last years title purely on consistency : they were always in the points.

As for GT5, it seems to be an incomplete engine, it doesn't have any tyre physics and disregards the actual contact patch with the road, and this before you even take into account the nature of the tyre compounds from each individual tyre on each individual car.

They also don't appear to have used any CAD data for any parts of the cars. If you want to achieve the ultimate physics you need to be able to process the movement and effect of every single component with in the car and how they effect and interact with each other, and thats before you begin to think about aero, road surface, damage, tyre degradation, deadzones, drive train efficiencies, ect. The sims that come closest to this are the ones that hidden away inside the F1 facilities dotted around Europe, these are only with one car per year and take around two years to build... thats just for 18-20 tracks and 1 car.

 

[VXR]

As a comparison, we could do with a few similar shots of the SLR in GT5 and if anyone has converted the FM3 cars to one of the PC games in similar render quality, it'd be appreciated. As it is, I reckon the new for FM3 and DLC cars will be much higher quality than the Shift 2 models, regardless of which platform.

 

[leon0714]

Almost 6 years developed For GT5. Only a year for shift 2! WTH is problem with those guys who always compare between XXXX(FZ3, su2,etc..) racing game and GT5?

 

[PAWEL17]

This is silly, a PC has got years of graphocs processing power over the PS3, and even with that pic, it is on par, or slighlty better, because there are no jagged shadows. Now if you compare two ps3 version's, like i have been playing both in the last week, GT5 is alot better.

 

[crsn891]

@FLIGHT50

If the physics in GT5 and Shift 2 are equal, please explain to me why they don't play the same. Same physics should come pretty close to same gameplay, just sayin'.

 

[Dude27]

Go back to first page my pictures are back online... something you won't find in GT5, a beautiful Porsche without any photoshoping, completely and genuinely Shift 2 ingame!

 

[Dude27]

Almost 6 years developed For GT5. Only a year for shift 2! WTH is problem with those guys who always compare between XXXX(FZ3, su2,etc..) racing game and GT5?

maybe because GT5 was the GRAPHIC reference... but PC games are definitely catching up quick... and GT5 will be old soon (and GT6? maybe in 2020-25 on PS5 ? )

 

[crsn891]

Well you are right about the Porsches Dude, GT5 only has standard model RUFs

 

[orimarc]

If I wanted real-life graphics I'd take the subway to the rich part of town and takes photos of real cars. S2U's graphics are good enough as they are now.

 

[Dude27]

If I wanted real-life graphics I'd take the subway to the rich part of town and takes photos of real cars. S2U's graphics are good enough as they are now.

and your point is? it's ONLY your opinion, just don't impose it to other...

I LOVE great real-like graphics and I recognize that GT5 was/is the reference of a near real life graphics (especially the global lighting and the reflections)... I'm happy to see that PC are catching up and since then there is pretty much NO chance at all the we see GT5 on a PC one day, I'd like graphics on PC to match as quick as possible GT5... Anyway, the next revolution will be the sound: graphics are near
bottleneck considering toping life-like rendering, but sound department as a LOT to do to match THAT: http://ngrignon.free.fr/motor.mp3

 

[BoneSawTX]

Shift2 cars are not to the same quality as GT5 but they're pretty dang good. If GT5 had at least Shift2 models for the other 800 cars I'd be more than happy. They could also steal the shadows, AI, modification depth, wheels, tracks...

 

[Bigbazz]

Brainfade is my hero, i agree with him on almost every point. But i still think the road car physics are fantastic in GT5, they feel almost like real cars and can be driven like such. As for the racing cars and especially open wheel i think GT5 is majorly lacking in that area. In Shift 2 i don't think any car has felt like it can actually be driven like a real car that i have driven, everything seems off, the grip seems off... the list is never ending it obviously was not designed as a sim but many people fail to see/believe that. And lets not get into the glitches and input issues with the game.

On Topic : To be honest i dont have much to say other than, Shift 2 cars do look good, but all the points he made were correct, and this thread is about the general quality of the car models i thought? rather than the graphical level of the game. Shift 2 on the PC looks better than GT5 mostly down to the power available with a PC, but the car models still don't even come close to the GT5 premiums.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Go back to first page my pictures are back online... something you won't find in GT5, a beautiful Porsche without any photoshoping, completely and genuinely Shift 2 ingame!

Still not on par with the Premium cars in GT5 (modeling wise).

 

[Imari]

Still not on par with the Premium cars in GT5 (modeling wise).

And you wouldn't expect it to be.

GT5 took 6 years to do ~200 premium cars. Shift 2 took 18 months to do ~70 additional cars over the ones already available in Shift 1, plus the additional bodykits, works versions and interior upgrades for all the cars in the series so far.

It becomes about how long you think your customer is willing to wait. PD thinks 6 months for one car is acceptable, and that's the quality that they're putting out. Some customers are happy with that. Some customers are happy to accept a slightly lower level of quality for a much higher production rate and a greater level of support for modifications that comes with that.

Shift 2's models are not the equal of GT5's, but they're staggeringly close for what they are. And in certain situations they can create photos that are just as good.

Besides, Dude27 is correct. Compare a Shift 2 Porsche to a GT5 RUF and it's no competition. It's only even close if we only consider GT5's premium models.

 

[tribolik]

Graphics isnt the only thing that counts in a racing game...
Physics
FFB
and Sound and at least the cars in Shift dont look like vacuum cleaners but they sure sound like that in GT5...

 

[TheDabbinDave]

Graphics isnt the only thing that counts in a racing game...
Physics
FFB
and Sound and at least the cars in Shift dont look like vacuum cleaners but they sure sound like that in GT5...

Couple the physics and visual prowess of GT5 + the sound, race atmosphere, gameplay depth, customization, NEW cars, and reputation of SMS + laser track scanning of iRacing = the ultimate [console] racing sim.

 

[Diesel Pump]

Couple the physics and visual prowess of GT5 + the sound, race atmosphere, gameplay depth, customization, NEW cars, and reputation of SMS + laser track scanning of iRacing = the ultimate [console] racing sim.

What does SMS stand for?

 

[tribolik]

Slightly Mad Studios

 

[CarreraGT]

Couple the physics and visual prowess of GT5 + the sound, race atmosphere, gameplay depth, customization, NEW cars, and reputation of SMS + laser track scanning of iRacing = the ultimate [console] racing sim.

Agreed, that would be awesome!

 

[Diesel Pump]

Slightly Mad Studios

Oh, ok, that would be really cool as long as they don't put those 3DO like videos with over emotional guys talking at you...