Opel/Vauxhall: will they ever be cool?

[Luminis]

Hmm, I've seen quite a few Opel enthusiasts put a Vauxhall badge on their cars over here. And over here, the general image of Opel is exactly the same as Vauxhall in the UK. However, in Germany it doesn't appear to be the same way.

Most people around here don't even really know about Vauxhall, aside from car buffs and people who played Gran Turimso and/or Forza.

That said, the image of Opel is, well, frankly, horrible. The Corsa is probably the most commonly riced-out car driven by annoying douches you can think of. Most of them will have a fart can that came straight off of ebay for 10 bucks, a "body kit" that looks like the guy owning the car made it himself out of Playdoh and they're usually equipped with the kind of tasteless, cheap wheels you'd find in the neared DIY store. Also, it's always those cars that sport some sort of "Porsche Killer" window decal. Civics are nothing compared to that.

Then, there are the older Astras. Those are usually driven by folks who wanted an M3, couldn't afford the E92, looked at the E46, couldn't afford it, looked at the E36, couldn't afford, looked at the E36 316i, couldn't afford it and went with the Astra.

The new Corsa is being driven by elderly women mostly, and the Insignia is indeed a car for guys who want an Audi, but can't afford one.

Suffice to say, I wouldn't want to be seen in an Opel. Ever. I'd rather walk.

Rebadging should be quite familiar to Aussies, since they're basically rebadged British.

Oh lord, that cracked me up

 

[axletramp]

If we are talking 'cool', then we mustn't forget one of GM/Opel/Vauxhall's finest moments, the good old Red Top C20XE 16V engine. Probably the engine most used for conversions and kit cars over the last 25 years than any other. And for good reason. You'll find them dumped in anything from old school Mini's to Fords (replacing the Pinto) and even F3 cars. Legendary engine.

 

[Jondot]

a gearbox that feels like stirring a 2 gallon pot of sharks teeth with a dessert spoon

a gearshift like stirring a lead pipe through dead bodies

Oh good! It's not just me, then. I reckon the gearboxes are honestly the worst things about them. I mean if you're going to make it imprecise, why not at least loosen it up a little so you don't break your wrist trying to engage 1st?

Actually having said that, the engine selection isn't great either. The 3 cylinder Corsa I drove was - compared to a similarly equipped Yaris and C1 I've done the same motorway trip in - absolutely hopeless. It was confused by inclines where the other two sailed up them with reasonable confidence, and sounded like it was running on a cocktail of 95RON and mud. The 1.7CDTi I tried in a Zafira once was similarly scared of hills, although admittedly that was powering a car with the aerodynamic efficiency of Eric Pickles.

What irritates me most about Vauxhall isn't so much that they make such dull things, but that they're a little too busy pretending that they don't. If the Corsa wasn't uninteresting enough when it was launched, here, now, in 2011, it really can't keep anyone entertained. So, Vauxhall's idea of spicing it up? Call it 'new', paint it bright green and add some stripes. Fantastic.

Similarly, I fell over from laughing when I saw what they'd badged the Zafira I drove:

REALLY Vauxhall? Excite? You're going with Excite?

 

[homeforsummer]

Then, there are the older Astras. Those are usually driven by folks who wanted an M3, couldn't afford the E92, looked at the E46, couldn't afford it, looked at the E36, couldn't afford, looked at the E36 316i, couldn't afford it and went with the Astra.

I love that description. Replace BMW with Audi A4 variants and you've got the typical Vauxhall driver in the UK.

REALLY Vauxhall? Excite? You're going with Excite?

 

[Cano]

Mmhh it looks like Opel/Vauxhall drivers have the same douchebag reputation that VAG owners in general (way less with Audi guys) have over here in Mexico. I can feel your pain.

As for the cars bein' crap, I dunno. I recently had to search the entire Opel press page for three pictures of each model currently sold by the brand for an iPad World Autocatalog the magazine is working on, and many of them look smashing, specially the station wagons.

 

[Robin]

I can't believe some of the stuff I am hearing in here! As a long term Vauxhall owner none of these stereotypical points are true, its mostly just hear say and a small minority which give the brand a bad reputation.

Vauxhall's are in essence German, they use German parts and are mostly developed in Germany making them very reliable and well built. Maybe not as well built as VW but they equal European Ford levels of quality.

As for cool, so many Vauxhall's past and present are cool. The Irmscher, OPC and VXR line of cars are excellent and they have a long history in motorsport such as the JWRC, DTM and British Touring Cars.

Cars like the Corsa C generation was the best selling and most popular supermini for 3 years in a row from its introduction, now you don't get sales like that if it isn't any good!

Also Vauxhall has a very quirky design language (or rather a lack of one), they mess around quite a lot and it can be hit and miss but at least its interesting. This is because they get body styles, chassis & designs elements from all over the GM network.

Even Clarkson, a passionate Vauxhall hater, had to eat his own hair on an omelette when the H generation Astra ended up looking exactly like the concept (i.e. amazing at the time)

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3014675/top_gear_jeremy_clarkson_eats_his_own_hair/

The Corsa's sporting pedigree..

 

[homeforsummer]

I can't believe some of the stuff I am hearing in here! As a long term Vauxhall owner none of these stereotypical points are true, its mostly just hear say and a small minority which give the brand a bad reputation.

It really isn't a small minority. It's dozens of Vauxhalls I come across every day. I'm sure you're a perfectly proficient driver, but a vast many aren't and the stereotypes exist for a reason.

Cars like the Corsa C generation was the best selling and most popular supermini for 3 years in a row from its introduction, now you don't get sales like that if it isn't any good!

The Ford Escort Mk4 (around 1990-ish) was one of the worst cars ever sold on the UK market and got appalling reviews in every single magazine it was tested in. It was so bad that Ford had to very, very quickly implement some design changes and the car was revised only two years after launch, rather than the normal four or five.

Before it was revised, it was still the UK's best-selling car.

Sales success is absolutely no guarantee of decency.

Even Clarkson, a passionate Vauxhall hater, had to eat his own hair on an omelette when the H generation Astra ended up looking exactly like the concept (i.e. amazing at the time)

Pity the car itself was still very much average. I don't disagree that a lot of current Vauxhalls look okay, but that doesn't make them good cars.

Also, there needs to be some sort of Godwin's Law with regards to Clarkson or Top Gear being mentioned in online car discussions...

The Corsa's sporting pedigree..

The Corsa competed for three years in S1600 and it didn't shine any more than any other S1600 car. In fact, I'm struggling to find evidence of any victories.

As series like the BTCC prove, the proficiency of a road car has very little bearing on whether a race car will be any good.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

There has been only one cool-ish Opel/Vauxhall.

And this would be it.

 

[C-ZETA]

And this, my friends, can define a Quite Insane car.

Don't think there is really anything cool enough by Opel or Vauxhall otherwise that is merely a rebadge.

 

[Jondot]

The Irmscher, OPC and VXR line of cars are excellent and they have a long history in motorsport such as the JWRC, DTM and British Touring Cars.

Oh don't get me started on bloody Irmscher.

Far too many cars adorned with their silly little add-ons floating around Tesco car parks these days. Their website might say they're a "synonym for sporty, fast and successful Opel vehicles", but to be honest I can't see how making Vectras look like they've been sneezed on by Project Kahn constitutes any change in speed or dynamics.

They may well have had a background in motorsport, but when you're so busy supplying body kits so that plumbers from Scarborough can drive their Astra estates around the seafront pretending to be Jay-Z's white, 34 year old cousin, your brand values are going to take a bit of a hit.

 

[homeforsummer]

Oh don't get me started on bloody Irmscher.

A girl I knew at uni had a Corsa festooned with Irmscher bits. She had an irritating knowledge of cars - you know the sort, knows a bit about cars, but not enough to not talk absolute cobblers about them. Thought Corsas were the best thing since sliced bread. Might have been something to do with the fact her dad owned a Vauxhall dealership.

She did get me an MOT for a tenner once so she wasn't completely useless.

 

[Mark II Blit]

There has been only one cool-ish Opel/Vauxhall.

[Tigra Rally Car]

And this would be it.

This Manta loudly disagrees.

But, no, this side of the eighties, an Opel will never be cool. Not as long as their cars weigh about the same as two elephants, that in combination with the shoddy, weak, GM engines, makes the sprint to 100 seem like Manuel Uribe trying to run a marathon. How the hell can an Astra Tourer weigh 1,6 tons? Interior quality also leaves much to be desired, not to mention the image problem, which seems to be fairly consistent all over Europe.

 

[Luminis]

This Manta loudly disagrees.

But, no, this side of the eighties, an Opel will never be cool.

And even in the 80s, Manta drivers were the laughing stock of, well, all of Germany.

 

[Mark II Blit]

And even in the 80s, Manta drivers were the laughing stock of, well, all of Germany.

Indeed they were, cue "Manta, Manta" clip

Still, the Manta 400 was an awfully cool car on the rally stages.
And Opel did have some goodies in the eighties, unlike now, where dull and FWD is king.
We used to have a Kadett, which we loved and drove until rust killed it. Simple motoring at its best.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Yeah, let's not forget Opel Monza..

 

[Jacob]

The 1.7CDTi I tried in a Zafira once was similarly scared of hills, although admittedly that was powering a car with the aerodynamic efficiency of Eric Pickles.

Heh, our family rented the same car (it did at least have the 1.7) when we were in France this summer, it had the slightly annoying tendency to die in exactly every hill unless you floored it. Ah, the noise, the refinement.

REALLY Vauxhall? Excite? You're going with Excite?

And I can say nothing about the owners as mostly old people buy Opels here (at least as far as my narrow knowledge goes), or people wanting a somewhat decent MPV. But it seems like their engines have nothing special about them, aren't very revolutionary. And seeing what people write mostly comes together with what I always thought. I myself wouldn't want to own an Opel, but then again I have a major hatred for GM seeing what they did to SAAB. The fate would probably have been the same, but I can't really food any good things GM did for SAAB during their ownership. But I see no major fault with them.

So for me, they will never ever be cool. Though the new design language they've got isn't too shabby.

 

[AMCNUT]

Both lines of cars are largely staid and uninspiring in my opinion, but I really love the Lotus Vauxhall Carlton/Opel Omega. Those things are awesome and I would buy one in a heartbeat if I could. Also, I think it was said above, but I agree with the person that mentioned the new Buick Regal - I really like that car as well. Opel did a good job with that one. Overall I would say that they're slightly uncool, but they get a good representation in Gran Turismo with a few of their better models.

But regarding he reputation thing, I think the plethora of uninspiring mid '90s and on GM products from the various makes about nails it as a North American equivalent...

 

[Ardius]

When my dad had a late-90s Vauxhall Omega, I think that was when Vauxhall was cool. So, yes they can be cool, its just on very rare occasions. The car being stolen twice wasn't cool though.

At least the Nova is one of the few automotive naming jokes along with the MR2.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Well, it couldn't be worse than Fiero..

 

[homeforsummer]

At least the Nova is one of the few automotive naming jokes along with the MR2.

Funnily enough, the Nova's reputation is actually improving again now. All the chavs have moved onto more modern stuff and the handful of clean, original sporting Novas left tend to be snapped up by enthusiasts. I've seen some lovely examples at shows. Serves to remind you that they were never too bad looking by the standards of the day, it was just a pity so many of them had god-awful bodykits fitted and were driven by plonkers.

 

[Famine]

I can't believe some of the stuff I am hearing in here! As a long term Vauxhall owner none of these stereotypical points are true, its mostly just hear say and a small minority which give the brand a bad reputation.

No, it's not. I have to say that I disagree that Vauxhalls are the worst driven cars on the road - I give that to all diesel Seat Leons - but I agree that they're right up the top of the tree.

Incidentally, I drive a BMW 5-series. I am fully aware of all of the stereotypes behind BMW drivers and I don't do any of them. No-one believes me when I let them out of junctions or across a road. I get tailgated more in the BMW than I have in any other car It doesn't bother me that other BMW drivers act like BMW drivers.

Vauxhall's are in essence German, they use German parts and are mostly developed in Germany making them very reliable and well built. Maybe not as well built as VW but they equal European Ford levels of quality.

The Vauxhall Agila is built in Ukraine (by Suzuki), the Vauxhall Corsa is built in Spain, the Vauxhall Tigra was built in France (the original in Spain), the Vauxhall Astra is built in the UK (Ellesmere Port), the Vauxhall Vectra was built in the UK (Luton and Ellesmere Port), the Vauxhall Meriva is built in Spain and the Vauxhall Antara is built in Russia. The success story Vauxhall Zafira is built in Germany and the Vauxhall Insignia - which won European Car of the Year 2009 (one point ahead of the new Fiesta) - is built in Germany.

When Germans make cars in Germany, things go well. Luton and Ellesmere Port have also been responsible for the Frontera (terrible car, badly made), the Cavalier (terrible car, badly made) and the Astra back when Opel called it the Kadett (terrible car, badly made), while the Zaragoza plant in Spain was responsible for the Nova (woeful car, made out of herpes). Mind you, the Russelsheim plant in Germany also churned out the Calibra, so it doesn't always go right.

The Vauxhall range is not a by-word for excellence in manufacture. In fact, for the European manufacturers they're only just ahead of the Franco-Italian quintet - JD Power actually puts them behind the three French manufacturers regularly and this year placed them rock bottom, but JD Power includes the entire ownership experiences. Oddly Honda is always rated highly for fit (if not materials) and places highly in JD Power and a significant chunk of their European output comes from Swindon, showing that the UK can screw cars together if it wants to. The same could be said of Nissan (at Sunderland) and BMW MINI (variously at Swindon, Gaydon, Cowley and Hams Hall).

As for cool, so many Vauxhall's past and present are cool. The Irmscher, OPC and VXR line of cars are excellent and they have a long history in motorsport such as the JWRC, DTM and British Touring Cars.

Irmscher is a bolt-on tat merchant. OPC and VXR is just your flagship sports model and, frankly, when you apply that badge to a people carrier and a 25 year old chassis that can't cope with the ludicrous amount of power you tell it to - which nicely reinforces the point about Vauxhall not caring about cars nor driving theirs before selling them (or anyone else's to benchmark them) - it loses some of its lustre. To be honest, the VXR Corsa and Astra aren't much cop either. The solution to a numb chassis is not to add power and make the springs harder...

The only cool Vauxhalls of the last 20 years are the ones they didn't make - the VX220 made by Lotus and the Monaro/VXR8 made by Holden. The point about motorsports has already been made - there's little relation between a spec racing car ploughed round the touring car circuit on a Sunday and the road car on a Monday morning commute. DTM cars are spaceframes with a GRP silhouette shell and a V8 stuffed in!

Cars like the Corsa C generation was the best selling and most popular supermini for 3 years in a row from its introduction, now you don't get sales like that if it isn't any good!

See homeforsummer's point about the Escort. And frankly the Vectra, Astra, Peugeot 206 (have you been in one of these? They're laughable and sold like hotcakes) and Rover 25.

Even Clarkson, a passionate Vauxhall hater, had to eat his own hair on an omelette when the H generation Astra ended up looking exactly like the concept (i.e. amazing at the time)

Yyyyyyyyeah, but that's nothing really to do with the qualities of the car. He made a silly statement (Clarkson? Making a silly statement? Never!) about a concept not looking like the finished product. It doesn't really matter that it did because, despite changing the design ideals, they left the driving experience untouched. Which was "terrible".

Instead, you ought to be bringing up his recommendation of the Vauxhall Zafira, as a passionate Vauxhall hater... The Zafira did actually change the game a little in the MiniMPV sector - not so much as the Picasso before it, but it did some things differently and better that showed that Vauxhall/Opel had actually thought about their car for a change. Of course, then they came up with the Zafira B which was the same car again, while everyone else had caught up and then moved the game on... Typical Vauxhall.

 

[homeforsummer]

It's ironic that one of the best Vauxhalls (Zafira) is also one of the worst driven, by dint of it being a mini-MPV. Not quite as badly driven as Citroen Picassos, but not far off.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

The Frontera was basically a rebadged Isuzu though, so I don't think you blame Vauxhall entirely for that one.

My dad and my uncle both drove Vauxhalls during my childhood though annoyingly my uncle always had a slightly higher grade than my dad. I remember my uncle's Carlton CDX being very nice but I nearly got my fingers chopped off by its electric windows.

 

[homeforsummer]

Carltons and Senators were at least generally reliable. A good barometer for that is how many were used as police high-speed pursuit/motorway cars (ditto Omegas). Unfortunately, most have been driven into the ground by now.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Carltons and Senators were at least generally reliable. A good barometer for that is how many were used as police high-speed pursuit/motorway cars (ditto Omegas). Unfortunately, most have been driven into the ground by now.

And they're also cheap enough to be available for chavs, sadly.. Omega B is the new Rieger-kitted E30..

 

[homeforsummer]

Barely see them in the UK any more. Suspect many were scrapped in the scrappage scheme, and the rest are being picked up by amateur drifters who weld the diffs and kill them on airfield trackdays.

 

[Tornado]

The only cool Vauxhalls of the last 20 years are the ones they didn't make - the VX220 made by Lotus and the Monaro/VXR8 made by Holden. The point about motorsports has already been made - there's little relation between a spec racing car ploughed round the touring car circuit on a Sunday and the road car on a Monday morning commute. DTM cars are spaceframes with a GRP silhouette shell and a V8 stuffed in!

Has there ever been anything in the way of a homologation (or at least special edition) model made by them?

 

[Famine]

Yes, the Vectra Super Touring. It was a run of 500 white Vectra B GSis with a slightly different bodykit and the yellow stickers you'll be familiar with from the Astra and Calibra DTM cars. Same 170hp 2.5 litre V6 as the GSi and FWD, quite some power down on and with different driven wheels than the DTM versions of completely different cars - while over 100hp down on the BTCC cars of the time with completely different liveries...

 

[Robin]

The Corsa competed for three years in S1600 and it didn't shine any more than any other S1600 car. In fact, I'm struggling to find evidence of any victories.

As series like the BTCC prove, the proficiency of a road car has very little bearing on whether a race car will be any good.

Even though Vauxhall / Opel might have not have had exactly stellar success in the world of motorsport you have to give them credit for taking part for so many years in a variety of events. I find that cool in itself and it definitely raises the image of the brand in my opinion.

Oh don't get me started on bloody Irmscher.

Far too many cars adorned with their silly little add-ons floating around Tesco car parks these days. Their website might say they're a "synonym for sporty, fast and successful Opel vehicles", but to be honest I can't see how making Vectras look like they've been sneezed on by Project Kahn constitutes any change in speed or dynamics.

Irmscher is a bolt-on tat merchant.

Are you sure you guys have been seeing official Imrscher body kits and not just chaved 3rd party junk which someone has stuck the Imrscher logo on? Because I can tell you every single bit of aero Imrscher has officially done is extremely tasteful and its not even as questionable as some of the stuff AMG pump out which people pay a fortune for!

Also they don't not just make 'bolt on tat', their exhaust systems are very high quality and are not even designed to sound obnoxious! All the aero is designed to be functional and offers real improvements both aerodynamically and aesthically. I have lots of Imrscher parts on my Vauxhall and I actually had a friend comment about how small my official rear spoiler was.... there you have it, understated, functional and classy.

Incidentally, I drive a BMW 5-series. I am fully aware of all of the stereotypes behind BMW drivers and I don't do any of them. No-one believes me when I let them out of junctions or across a road. I get tailgated more in the BMW than I have in any other car It doesn't bother me that other BMW drivers act like BMW drivers.

Well then you can relate to how Vauxhall owners feel when everyone thinks they are chav's in modded Corsa's hanging around in Halfords carparks.

The Vauxhall Agila is built in Ukraine (by Suzuki), the Vauxhall Corsa is built in Spain, the Vauxhall Tigra was built in France (the original in Spain), the Vauxhall Astra is built in the UK (Ellesmere Port), the Vauxhall Vectra was built in the UK (Luton and Ellesmere Port), the Vauxhall Meriva is built in Spain and the Vauxhall Antara is built in Russia. The success story Vauxhall Zafira is built in Germany and the Vauxhall Insignia - which won European Car of the Year 2009 (one point ahead of the new Fiesta) - is built in Germany.

When Germans make cars in Germany, things go well. Luton and Ellesmere Port have also been responsible for the Frontera (terrible car, badly made), the Cavalier (terrible car, badly made) and the Astra back when Opel called it the Kadett (terrible car, badly made), while the Zaragoza plant in Spain was responsible for the Nova (woeful car, made out of herpes). Mind you, the Russelsheim plant in Germany also churned out the Calibra, so it doesn't always go right.

The Vauxhall range is not a by-word for excellence in manufacture. In fact, for the European manufacturers they're only just ahead of the Franco-Italian quintet - JD Power actually puts them behind the three French manufacturers regularly and this year placed them rock bottom, but JD Power includes the entire ownership experiences. Oddly Honda is always rated highly for fit (if not materials) and places highly in JD Power and a significant chunk of their European output comes from Swindon, showing that the UK can screw cars together if it wants to. The same could be said of Nissan (at Sunderland) and BMW MINI (variously at Swindon, Gaydon, Cowley and Hams Hall).

I went out of my way to say German design and parts and not to say manufactured in because I know very well that they are made all over the EU which I feel is totally irrelevant if manufacturing standards are adhered to (are the Merc's made in Africa any worse?!). If the same model coming out of two different factories differs in quality, especially in a high calibre company in this day and age then something is seriously wrong!

My point its that they are primarily German design and engineering which has a reputation for being excellent. As I said before, sure they are not the best from that country but they are a very reasonable compared to other competitors.

See homeforsummer's point about the Escort. And frankly the Vectra, Astra, Peugeot 206 (have you been in one of these? They're laughable and sold like hotcakes) and Rover 25.

I know theres not always a direct link to good cars selling well but I have to disagree with some of those models being terrible, the Vectra C generation was an excellent car, bold for its time and brought the brand as close as they could to the other German rivals. The 206 was also very stylistically bold for the time and set the design for the rest of the Peugeot range for many years.

As for the Clarkson bit I put it in for a bit of a laugh, I know what he says has no serious relevance but I thought the clip would be an interesting thing to see as I proves Vaxuhall can surprise with decent looking models.

Remember the title of this thread is 'will they ever be cool', well what makes a car company cool is open to interpretation but I feel is so much more than just about reliability and quality. Vauxhall has always been quirky and the fact they have been involved in motorsport for many years makes the brand cool for me.

Robin.

 

[Carlos]

If they make a Insignia coupe, it would be.

V6 turbo, AWD, yes please.