Opel/Vauxhall: will they ever be cool?
- Thread starter NLxAROSA
- 148 comments
- 14,502 views
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
- 6,584
- Kent, UK
- GTP_Jondot
Well, personally I'm not a fan of their grilles, for example. I think the only reason to select one is because you're fed up with having a giant V spread out across the front of your car - which is fair enough - but I'm yet to stumble on one that doesn't make it look like your car's had a rhinectomy.
Or if you've bought a Zafira...
This is before I even touch on the subject of bodykits and misjudged spoilers, but I'll throw a few in from their website for good measure:
Note that the Insignia, bottom right, appears to have been fitted with two! High-larious.
- 8,432
- Rockay City
It's hard to find any old Opel, since they've all turned into piles of rust, starting at the rear wheel arches.
Why would it bother you? If you like what you drive, why give a crap about what anybody else thinks? Their loss, not yours. 👍 I know it doesn't bother me, I buy a car for me, not for my neighbours/co-workers/etc. I loved my Corsa OPC, the car was immense fun.
Why I started this discussion is to see if anybody thinks it would be possible for Opel/Vauxhall to shake its current image if they manage to come up with cars that can compete in the top of their respective segments.
Reviews show the new Corsa OPC/VXR Nürburgring Edition is in Mk III Clio RS territory, which means that Opel/Vauxhall have made serious improvements in the handling department. Would anybody consider buying one, despite it having the Opel/Vauxhall badge? Same for the new Astra OPC/VXR, if it turns out to be a Mégane RS killer as far as handling is concerned, would anybody consider it? Or would they opt for a different brand, afraid of the responses of family, co-workers, neighbours, etc?
- 87,069
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Yeah, nothing says "tasteful" like a fuel flap cover, a door handle spoiler or LED DRLs. All from the Corsa D part of their site...
The "exhaust systems" are just a backbox (silencer/resonator, for alternate automotive cultures), which does nothing for the car but change the sound - an exhaust system starts at the header (or headers) and runs the length of the car. They may be made of high-quality parts but it's still bolt-on tat. I mean, just look at this gem from their site:
Golden.
I can't find any parts on their official site that would offer any tangible benefit to any car they were screwed onto other than aesthetics. Even though they claim to be "ground effects packages"... What the hell? They've developed stick-on GRP bits which also lower a road car to within a few millimetres of the ground? Or are they putting deep skirts on the side and a desk fan on the tailgate?
No, not really. BMW drivers are generally tossers. It doesn't bother me enough to get worked up about it - or indeed at all - and I don't change anything about how I drive in it compared to other cars.
But GM aren't a high calibre car company. They're an accountancy firm that sells cars - that's pretty much the point.
Citing their German-ness isn't particularly of relevance either, since they haven't been German since 1929 and they're easily the worst mainstream German manufacturer - it'd be like deriding an wholly reliable car for unreliability because it's Italian... Interesting that you cite Mercedes who had their own little Vauxhall spell in the 1990s, making some of the least reliable and least well-built cars of all during the ML-era. They're also the only German manufacturer that gives Vauxhall a run for their money down at the bottom of JD Power - largely due to a moronic dealer experience.
The Vectra C? Bold? It looked like a Cavalier with a Mk1 Mondeo bodykit and a Mr. Pringles moustache. Design aside it was an abysmal car, complete with all the Vauxhall hallmarks of utterly lifeless steering, suspension and braking. In fact every Vectra made has been two generations behind every Mondeo made - the Insignia's successor might be just about as good to drive as the Mk3 Mondeo was, but the Insignia sure as anything isn't.
The Peugeot 206 is one of the most disappointing cars ever made. The 205 was a great little car - prone to a bit of lift-off oversteer, but liveliness is never a bad thing - the 306 was competent and competitive in its sector, the 406 was a good successor to the 405 and the Coupe was extraordinarily handsome and able (I felt a little disconnection with the rear at "quite some" speed, but that's what you get with a sideways 3.0 V6 on the nose of a FWD car). The 206 was just a designwank - they went out of their way to make it quirky and kooky (you may even call it "stylistically bold"), which made it phenomenally girly - but underneath it was a dreadful car. Like Vauxhall, they tried to cure it by making the GTi 180 - shoving more power through and stiffer suspension onto a chassis which was ill-able to cope with it, while trading on sporting success in a completely different car that looked quite like it. The 207 that followed it is merely a bad car (we had an HDi until recently), but the low benchmark set by the 206 makes it quite an improvement.
Looks are one thing - the skills pay the bills.
That shape Astra was surprising, perhaps precisely because Vauxhall is so boring, but it became old quick. The Insignia should be outlawed as one of the most depressing, narcolepsy-inducing cars of all time (it's literally a previous generation Toyota Avensis made duller) as I just about doze off every time one goes past. It's rivalled only by the new Astra - though Ford has managed to make the Mk3 Focus look like a Kia Pro C'eed (sufficiently so that I didn't realise they'd released it until probably 9 months after they had, when I spotted a Kia with a Ford badge
) so it might be industry leanings.Yet underneath the... "quirky" (which I can't see in anything they've ever made - look to Citroen to see "quirky"), their cars are badly made from cheap materials, dull and lifeless to drive, crap to drive nearer the limits and their motorsport pedigree is non-existant given that the road cars are completely unrelated to what they use in competition.
I'm not sure there's a less cool brand in Britain at the moment than Vauxhall. Maybe Chrysler.
Last edited:
- 23,960
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
It's interesting to see that Opels have pretty much the same bad image as Vauxhalls do over here. I was under the impression that Vauxhall's came from the pre 'rebadged Opel' era when the were producing Vivas and Victors etc which were generally ropey.
Opel made a Omega Evo 500 to homologate the Omega for DTM racing. It looked similar to the Lotus Carlton but had only 230hp.
Opel made a Omega Evo 500 to homologate the Omega for DTM racing. It looked similar to the Lotus Carlton but had only 230hp.
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
Having a badgeless grille is nothing new for many manufacturers sporting divisions plus it does actually improve cooling to the engine even if they end up looking like cocaine addicts. Irmscher does also them with a tasteful silver strip on the top which looks great.
As for the body kits some of those examples are very old models and those parts were totally acceptable for the era when body kits were a bit more larey. I feel their modern stuff for the current range is much more reserved.
Mercedes during their bad 90's period still was a well respected brand which sold well mainly on the back of its Germaness regardless of what the reality was. So even if German = reliable isn't the reality it still is a feeling which sways the average consumer and its the same with Vauxhall and Opel. I bet they push the Germaness of Opel over there as much as the push the Britishness of Vauxhall over here (seen the latest home nations sponsorship ad?).
I'm quite surprised Famine at your strong distaste or even hatred for the brand, did you have a bad experience with a Vauxhall in the past by any chance?
As for the Vectra C how can you not think it was bold looking for 2002? I remember reviewers banging on about about the rear light clusters having an interesting stacked style! One guy was responsible solely for those clusters!
300C isn't a cool car? Crossfire? ....you have got to be kidding right!? Engineering aside, these are very good looking and interesting cars. If your taking about the re-badged Lancia's / Fiats then I somewhat agree.
Robin.
Last edited:
- 19,013
- Jersey V.1.0
- axletramp
When they were launched (1989/90) they actually had one installed in the Design Museum in London due to it's cutting edge design. But like so many other 90's cars they dated very quickly - Lotus Elan is a good example.
BTW, most cars look good in DTM trim.
BTW, most cars look good in DTM trim.
- 27,208
- United Kingdom
As for the Vectra C how can you not think it was bold looking for 2002? I remember reviewers banging on about about the rear light clusters having an interesting stacked style! One guy was responsible solely for those clusters!
Really? There's not a single thing about that car that's bold. Even back when it was released. It was marginally more imaginative than the previous Vectra, but then that's like saying it's marginally better having one hand cut off than both hands cut off.
If reviewers were "banging on" about the rear light clusters (which aren't any more imaginative than the generation of Astra launched in around 1998) you should have got a general idea about how tedious the rest of the car was. Same rule applies to the Vectra B's wing mirrors. One vaguely imaginative bit of design (and those light clusters aren't even that) doesn't make the rest of the car okay.
One of my friends in my last job had a Vectra C. He bought it because he was doing a lot of miles travelling to BTCC races and wanted something big, comfortable and diesel. He sold it again as he was beginning to lose the will to live every time he drove it.
- 23,960
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Dreadful looking cars, the both of them
- Don't even get me started on the kinds of people who buy them.The Calibra was a good looking car in it's day, shame it drove just like the Cavalier it was based on. In fact in drove worse than a Cavalier, it felt heavier. Probably down to it having stiffer springs then even the GSi 2000.
Last edited:
- 87,069
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Oh look, a Vauxhall/Opel they didn't make...
Not really. The perception was that Mercedes sold a quality, reliable car and what consumers got was a disastrous shed with a premium pricetag.
Consumers don't see "German = reliable". They see Porsche as the pinnacle and BMW and Audi as extremely capable, prestige brands - if (all) driven by tossers. Mercedes took such a hit that it's now just a badge-brand. Opel has never been in that kind of company - Opel is just the continental, mass-production, budget-engineered equivalent of Ford or PSA, but without the character and dynamics of the French and without the brand strength of Ford after their 90s/00s reinvention. The fact an Opel or Vauxhall is made of German parts (which is not necessarily the case anyway - it's just German-funded and, ultimately, the money comes from the USA) isn't really relevant, because it's nailed together in the same crap factories that shovelled out the crap Vauxhalls of old and still has the driving characteristics and brand ethos of those cars.
Yes. Every one I've driven has been abysmal. For heaven's sakes, I got out of a Corsa and into a loaner Mk5 Escort - a Mk5 Escort - that felt better and the Escort is one of the worst cars to ever grace the planet.
I'm relatively reasonable. I don't hate things without a good reason to and I hate Vauxhall because they are cheap-feeling, nasty-handling, cheap-looking cars designed and built by people who have no apparent interest in cars at all. I've never been inside an exception to this.
I'll reiterate hfs's point here. You have a whole new* platform, a whole new body, a whole new* car and reviewers bang on about its rear light clusters...
Editor: Come on, Steve. You've got to say something nice about it or they'll stop lending them to us.
Steve: Look boss, it's a Mk2 Cavalier. Most of the chassis can be traced back to the Mk2 Cavalier. It drives like a Mk2 Cavalier. In fact I reckon the plastics were recycled from old Mk2 Cavaliers. It's as interesting as being locked inside Marvin the Paranoid Android's posing pouch.
Editor: Really? Nothing good to say?
Steve: Well, it goes like a train I suppose.
Editor: Awesome!
Steve: No, boss. It takes ages to get up to speed, you need plenty of notice to get it slowed down again - you'll occasionally miss your cue as a result - and it goes where it wants to, not where you point it.
Editor: Steve...
Steve: Well, I suppose the rear light clusters aren't that bad.
Editor: Great! Give me 2 paragraphs and 150 words on them.
I mean just look at that three quarter angle. From the C-pillar down to the wheel, it's utterly without any kind of effort. I've not seen something so featureless since that time I was lost in Norfolk in the fog. Bam! Slab of metal. The original front end truly was a tracing-paper-on-the-Avensis job and the update was just Mr. Pringle moustache. There's nothing imaginative there at all - it's the vehicle design equivalent of an X-Factor winner's Christmas single.
It's not possible to be cool driving a 300C in the UK. Anyone who likes cars knows you're driving a cheap Mercedes E-Class without the reliability (which the E doesn't have anyway), materials and ride comfort. Anyone who doesn't like cars thinks you're a posing tosser driving a ludicrous American barge (assuming you haven't been a total butthole and put Bentley badges on it - one in three that I've seen so far have done exactly that). The same goes for the Crossfire, only with the Mercedes SLK and with the slight issue that your car looks like my dog does when she's crapping in the garden - right down to the expression as she looks right at you while she's doing it.
Driving a Chrysler in the UK is essentially the equivalent of being an oiled-up, semi-naked 55 year old man with advanced pattern baldness, a moustache, a field of chest pubes and a very loud declaration that what you love most in life is a big bowl from which other men's wives pull keyfobs. That's what the badge says.
Famine
Not really. The perception was that Mercedes sold a quality, reliable car and what consumers got was a disastrous shed with a premium pricetag.
Consumers don't see "German = reliable". They see Porsche as the pinnacle and BMW and Audi as extremely capable, prestige brands - if (all) driven by tossers. Mercedes took such a hit that it's now just a badge-brand. Opel has never been in that kind of company - Opel is just the continental, mass-production, budget-engineered equivalent of Ford or PSA, but without the character and dynamics of the French and without the brand strength of Ford after their 90s/00s reinvention. The fact an Opel or Vauxhall is made of German parts (which is not necessarily the case anyway - it's just German-funded and, ultimately, the money comes from the USA) isn't really relevant, because it's nailed together in the same crap factories that shovelled out the crap Vauxhalls of old and still has the driving characteristics and brand ethos of those cars.
I'm quite surprised Famine at your strong distaste or even hatred for the brand, did you have a bad experience with a Vauxhall in the past by any chance?
Yes. Every one I've driven has been abysmal. For heaven's sakes, I got out of a Corsa and into a loaner Mk5 Escort - a Mk5 Escort - that felt better and the Escort is one of the worst cars to ever grace the planet.
I'm relatively reasonable. I don't hate things without a good reason to and I hate Vauxhall because they are cheap-feeling, nasty-handling, cheap-looking cars designed and built by people who have no apparent interest in cars at all. I've never been inside an exception to this.
As for the Vectra C how can you not think it was bold looking for 2002? I remember reviewers banging on about about the rear light clusters having an interesting stacked style! One guy was responsible solely for those clusters!
I'll reiterate hfs's point here. You have a whole new* platform, a whole new body, a whole new* car and reviewers bang on about its rear light clusters...
Editor: Come on, Steve. You've got to say something nice about it or they'll stop lending them to us.
Steve: Look boss, it's a Mk2 Cavalier. Most of the chassis can be traced back to the Mk2 Cavalier. It drives like a Mk2 Cavalier. In fact I reckon the plastics were recycled from old Mk2 Cavaliers. It's as interesting as being locked inside Marvin the Paranoid Android's posing pouch.
Editor: Really? Nothing good to say?
Steve: Well, it goes like a train I suppose.
Editor: Awesome!
Steve: No, boss. It takes ages to get up to speed, you need plenty of notice to get it slowed down again - you'll occasionally miss your cue as a result - and it goes where it wants to, not where you point it.
Editor: Steve...
Steve: Well, I suppose the rear light clusters aren't that bad.
Editor: Great! Give me 2 paragraphs and 150 words on them.
I mean just look at that three quarter angle. From the C-pillar down to the wheel, it's utterly without any kind of effort. I've not seen something so featureless since that time I was lost in Norfolk in the fog. Bam! Slab of metal. The original front end truly was a tracing-paper-on-the-Avensis job and the update was just Mr. Pringle moustache. There's nothing imaginative there at all - it's the vehicle design equivalent of an X-Factor winner's Christmas single.
It's not possible to be cool driving a 300C in the UK. Anyone who likes cars knows you're driving a cheap Mercedes E-Class without the reliability (which the E doesn't have anyway), materials and ride comfort. Anyone who doesn't like cars thinks you're a posing tosser driving a ludicrous American barge (assuming you haven't been a total butthole and put Bentley badges on it - one in three that I've seen so far have done exactly that). The same goes for the Crossfire, only with the Mercedes SLK and with the slight issue that your car looks like my dog does when she's crapping in the garden - right down to the expression as she looks right at you while she's doing it.
Driving a Chrysler in the UK is essentially the equivalent of being an oiled-up, semi-naked 55 year old man with advanced pattern baldness, a moustache, a field of chest pubes and a very loud declaration that what you love most in life is a big bowl from which other men's wives pull keyfobs. That's what the badge says.
- 23,960
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Speedster/VX220.. Which again is a Lotus with opel/Vauxhall badges..? What about the reborn Opel GT?
- 23,960
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
The one that wasn't as good as the previous Speedster/VX220 and was a Pontiac/Saturn?
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Yup, that'd be the one.
- 3,279
- UK
- GTP_VEXD
Well well well.....
What a thread I have stumbled into......
With the exception of the Manta, Monza and Insignia, I have spent extensive time in all the cars mentioned in this thread, including the Crossfire, and 300c.
Obviously, the road going versions; as Juha Kankkunen was not a close friend of mine, and BTCC was not a pastime for me.
Vauxhall will not be cool.
Ever.
There are some terrible models, and there are some that are not quite so terrible, but still terrible, nontheless.
Robin, if that's your Corsa in the pic, then congratulations, you bought the best incarnation.
From fleet.
In fact, if I looked hard enough, I could probably find some information that would prove I drove that actual car.
The Vectra in the pic, the steel one, I broke one of those in 22 miles once.
The turbo variant, which managed to not handle the pressure of full throttle for more than a few seconds, before the fuel inlet hard pipe divorced itself from the fuel rail, which made for one of those garden sprinklers, only it wasn't water on grass, it was petrol, under pressure, on hot engine.
I can vouch for any Vauxhall being absolute and utter tosh, through and through.
They have given me a back problem, as to the point where my vertebrae have fused.
They have gone through three pairs of my worx trousers, as the interior vent design is legendary, and likes to tear hems off.
They have caused more accidents within the firm, due to the STUPID A-pillar design.
There is only one car manufacturer that I loathe more, and that is Chevrolet.
Why?
Well, lets see..... Is it because they use the bits that were left over from the Vauxhall bin?
Could be.
I am of course referring to the Volt, Kalos and ugh.... do I have to mention it.... ugh.... oh...... err..... erm.... ok.... the errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr AVEO. uch. Spit.
Want to know something about how a Vauxhall from the last 6 years drives?
Ask me.
I can also be quizzed on Ford, Mercedes, Peugeot, Range Rover, Porsche, Fiat, BMW.
But only on certain models.
Like, most of them.
One of our yard team, who didn't ever go out on the road, clocking up miles like I do (around 80,000 a year) was given an AVEO to commute in.
This is essentially a Corsa, with all the good bits taken out.
He managed to successfully get himself out of the company car scheme, after he got his Aveo returned to the dealers twice in two weex, as it wouldn't go over some speed humps in the entrance road (10 MPH speed limit) with out jumping out of gear.
You expect that from a £10K car?
Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt, the worst cars I have ever driven.
BTW Famine, the Astra's have phenomenal brakes.
👍
What a thread I have stumbled into......
With the exception of the Manta, Monza and Insignia, I have spent extensive time in all the cars mentioned in this thread, including the Crossfire, and 300c.
Obviously, the road going versions; as Juha Kankkunen was not a close friend of mine, and BTCC was not a pastime for me.
Vauxhall will not be cool.
Ever.
There are some terrible models, and there are some that are not quite so terrible, but still terrible, nontheless.
Robin, if that's your Corsa in the pic, then congratulations, you bought the best incarnation.
From fleet.
In fact, if I looked hard enough, I could probably find some information that would prove I drove that actual car.
The Vectra in the pic, the steel one, I broke one of those in 22 miles once.
The turbo variant, which managed to not handle the pressure of full throttle for more than a few seconds, before the fuel inlet hard pipe divorced itself from the fuel rail, which made for one of those garden sprinklers, only it wasn't water on grass, it was petrol, under pressure, on hot engine.
I can vouch for any Vauxhall being absolute and utter tosh, through and through.
They have given me a back problem, as to the point where my vertebrae have fused.
They have gone through three pairs of my worx trousers, as the interior vent design is legendary, and likes to tear hems off.
They have caused more accidents within the firm, due to the STUPID A-pillar design.
There is only one car manufacturer that I loathe more, and that is Chevrolet.
Why?
Well, lets see..... Is it because they use the bits that were left over from the Vauxhall bin?
Could be.
I am of course referring to the Volt, Kalos and ugh.... do I have to mention it.... ugh.... oh...... err..... erm.... ok.... the errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr AVEO. uch. Spit.
Want to know something about how a Vauxhall from the last 6 years drives?
Ask me.
I can also be quizzed on Ford, Mercedes, Peugeot, Range Rover, Porsche, Fiat, BMW.
But only on certain models.
Like, most of them.
One of our yard team, who didn't ever go out on the road, clocking up miles like I do (around 80,000 a year) was given an AVEO to commute in.
This is essentially a Corsa, with all the good bits taken out.
He managed to successfully get himself out of the company car scheme, after he got his Aveo returned to the dealers twice in two weex, as it wouldn't go over some speed humps in the entrance road (10 MPH speed limit) with out jumping out of gear.
You expect that from a £10K car?
Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt, the worst cars I have ever driven.
BTW Famine, the Astra's have phenomenal brakes.
👍
- 27,208
- United Kingdom
👍
- 3,202
- Murcie LP710
- 27,208
- United Kingdom
- 3,279
- UK
- GTP_VEXD
My bad.
It was 3AM when I posted.....
Murcie, you're right.
It's the Daewoo conversions.
Except the Aveo, that's a Corsa with all the good bits removed.
It has the same engine, running gear, and bits inside where the Corsa's bits are, but it has had all of it's finesse removed.
Considering how much finesse there was in the first place........
👍
It was 3AM when I posted.....
Murcie, you're right.
It's the Daewoo conversions.
Except the Aveo, that's a Corsa with all the good bits removed.
It has the same engine, running gear, and bits inside where the Corsa's bits are, but it has had all of it's finesse removed.
Considering how much finesse there was in the first place........
👍
- 9,055
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
As an American that has no idea about the car culture in the imaginary land of Europe (as most students in geography think in middle America), why does Vauxhall get flak for being uncool?
For the most part I just see them as badge engineered GM cars.
For the most part I just see them as badge engineered GM cars.
Back in the day, the Nova was the chav car of choice, along with the mk2/mk3 Fiesta's. There are still a few Nova's kicking about, but not like they used to be. The Corsa is the new Nova, like the Impreza is the new XR3i for the slightly more affluent chav who can afford more than a Nova/Corsa.
Having owned 2 Chavalier SRi's many many moons ago, I was put off Vauxhalls for life, the 1st I thought was down to bad luck, but after the 2nd one decided it too liked to be parked up in bits more than it liked being driven I gave up on them. My standard Nissan Bluebird handled better than the SRi Chavalier which was meant to be the sporty one. Every Vauxhall I've ever driven I've hated every minute of it.
