Osama Bin Laden is dead.

[Nuck81]

Al-Queda and other Islamic extremist groups are no more Muslim than Nazi Germany was Christian.

This isn't about Christianity vs Islam, although it is marketed as such by both Eastern and Western Media, it's easier to fear monger that way.

What it should truly be about is, let's stop these terrorist who are using religion as a shield, from killing innocent people.

 

[Danoff]

Al-Queda and other Islamic extremist groups are no more Muslim than Nazi Germany was Christian.

This isn't about Christianity vs Islam, although it is marketed as such by both Eastern and Western Media, it's easier to fear monger that way.

What it should truly be about is, let's stop these terrorist who are using religion as a shield, from killing innocent people.

I disagree. Hitler was not claiming the bible as the basis of his actions. This is islam in the same way that the crusades were christian. It is a holy war because it is based on religious claims. You shouldn't try to deny that.

 

[Mr. S]

I disagree. Hitler was not claiming the bible as the basis of his actions. This is islam in the same way that the crusades were christian. It is a holy war because it is based on religious claims. You shouldn't try to deny that.

There's probably no God anyway. Nor Allah. Nor whatever you want to call it. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.™

#winning

 

[Nuck81]

I disagree. Hitler was not claiming the bible as the basis of his actions. This is islam in the same way that the crusades were christian. It is a holy war because it is based on religious claims. You shouldn't try to deny that.

A direct quote from Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler

I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

There are three words which many use without a thought which for us are no catch-phrases: Love, Faith, and Hope.... We are fanatical in our love for our people....

We have faith in the rights of our people, the rights which have existed time out of mind. We protest against the view that every other nation should have rights - and we have none. We must learn to make our own this blind faith in the rights of our people, in the necessity of devoting ourselves to the service of these rights; we must make our own the faith that gradually victory must be granted us if only we are fanatical enough. And from this love and from this faith there emerges for us the idea of hope. When others doubt and hesitate for the future of Germany - we have no doubts. We have both the hope and the faith that Germany will and must once more become great and mighty.

We have faith that one day Heaven will bring the Germans back into a Reich over which there shall be no Soviet star, no Jewish star of David, but above that Reich there shall be the symbol of German labor - the Swastika. And that will mean that the first of May has truly come.

-Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 01 May 1923

Pretty clear here

We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928

There are many more

 

[nk4e]

Then why was Japan involved with an alliance with Germany?

 

[Nuck81]

Then why was Japan involved with an alliance with Germany?

Japan was involved in the genocide of the Jews?

 

[nk4e]

Nevermind, there were two theaters in World War II. The European theatre and the Asian theatre, USA was involved in both because we supplied weapons and took over bases( Euro) then we had to stop Japan from taking over the Asian Continents.
http://home.earthlink.net/~gfeldmeth/chart.ww2.html
There was genocide but not of one religion.

 

[icelt]

Then why was Japan involved with an alliance with Germany?

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend," I think pretty well sums up their basic alliance. Much like England and the US being allies with the former USSR. Didn't take long after the end of hostilities in Europe to reestablish that other than our mutual enemy the 3rd Reich, we really didn't have all that much in common. To put it mildly.

 

[Nuck81]

There was genocide but not of one religion.

I'm not sure what you meant here, but in Europe there was genocide of a culture, the Jews, based on one religion, Judaism.

Also in Hitlers own words it was a genocide based on Hitlers own Christian Interpretations, and personal prejudice. It was a twisted and inaccurate interpretation, much like the Interpretation of Islam by Muslim extremist, but still based on Christianity.

And no offense to anyone else or the historic scholars of the world, but I would consider the words of Adolf Hitler to be a rather accurate and reliable source on the motivations of Adolf Hitler....

Now before I get called a Christian basher, I don't believe that Nazi Germany or Hitlers Christian views are an accurate representation of Christianity. Christianity in itself had absolutely nothing to do with with the actions of Adolf Hitler, Christianity is not to blame.

Just as I don't believe that Muslim extremist and terrorist cells are an accurate representation of Islam. Islam itself has absolutely nothing to with with actions of Terrorism, Islam is not to blame.

However they were/are both events carried out in the name of their respective religions. It is not Islams fault that radical terrorist are carrying out atrocities in the name of their religion, just as it was not Christianity fault for the genocide of the Jews...

 

[Stevisiov]

I'm not sure what you meant here, but in Europe there was genocide of a culture, the Jews, based on one religion, Judaism.

Also in Hitlers own words it was a genocide based on Hitlers own Christian Interpretations, and personal prejudice. It was a twisted and inaccurate interpretation, much like the Interpretation of Islam by Muslim extremist, but still based on Christianity.

And no offense to anyone else or the historic scholars of the world, but I would consider the words of Adolf Hitler to be a rather accurate and reliable source on the motivations of Adolf Hitler....

Now before I get called a Christian basher, I don't believe that Nazi Germany or Hitlers Christian views are an accurate representation of Christianity. Christianity in itself had absolutely nothing to do with with the actions of Adolf Hitler, Christianity is not to blame.

Just as I don't believe that Muslim extremist and terrorist cells are an accurate representation of Islam. Islam itself has absolutely nothing to with with actions of Terrorism, Islam is not to blame.

However they were/are both events carried out in the name of their respective religions. It is not Islams fault that radical terrorist are carrying out atrocities in the name of their religion, just as it was not Christianity fault for the genocide of the Jews...

This. 👍

 

[Danoff]

I'm not sure what you meant here, but in Europe there was genocide of a culture, the Jews, based on one religion, Judaism.

Also in Hitlers own words it was a genocide based on Hitlers own Christian Interpretations, and personal prejudice. It was a twisted and inaccurate interpretation, much like the Interpretation of Islam by Muslim extremist, but still based on Christianity.

And no offense to anyone else or the historic scholars of the world, but I would consider the words of Adolf Hitler to be a rather accurate and reliable source on the motivations of Adolf Hitler....

Now before I get called a Christian basher, I don't believe that Nazi Germany or Hitlers Christian views are an accurate representation of Christianity. Christianity in itself had absolutely nothing to do with with the actions of Adolf Hitler, Christianity is not to blame.

Just as I don't believe that Muslim extremist and terrorist cells are an accurate representation of Islam. Islam itself has absolutely nothing to with with actions of Terrorism, Islam is not to blame.

However they were/are both events carried out in the name of their respective religions. It is not Islams fault that radical terrorist are carrying out atrocities in the name of their religion, just as it was not Christianity fault for the genocide of the Jews...

I still think you're reaching (unnecessarily since you have better examples to choose from). Hitler's hatred of Jews was based on events portrayed in the bible, but not in a misinterpretation of the bible. He took facts from the bible and drew his own conclusions about what acts were righteous. He did not believe that the bible instructed him to kill the jews. He believed that the jews deserved to die for what was portrayed in the bible. There is a difference.

Anyway you have the crusades to use to give an example of Christianity going nuts - so feel free.

Who are you to say what is the true islam and what is not? Who are you to say what is the true message of christianity, or judasim, and what is not? If you could talk to a knight in the crusades, he would probably provide a rather convincing tale for why he believes God wants him to kill the infidels. Similarly, talking to a muslim terrorist would provide you with some explanation for why certain passages in his holy book mean that God wants him to kill the infidels.

You declare yourself knowledgeable of the correct interpretation of these holy books, but how can you substantiate that? There is a lot of hatred and numerous calls to violence in the Bible, and the same is true for the Koran. You dismiss these passages in favor of the ones you like, but you cannot know you are right to do so.

Bottom line is that these people believe they are the TRUE Muslims, and the knights of the crusade believed they were TRUE Christians. They're all nuts. There is no need to defend these ancient texts.

 

[tyl0r_r]

The UBL kill unified us for a short time, helped everyone remember why we love our country, why its special, why we can go into another country without them knowing and kill a terrorist they knew was there, and have no consequences. Go USA, and if you think the US is a bad place the you should leave. The country was founded on freedom and personal responsibility, both of which are challenged daily.

 

[Nuck81]

Wow. Talk about having words put in your mouth.

 

[tyl0r_r]

I still think you're reaching (unnecessarily since you have better examples to choose from). Hitler's hatred of Jews was based on events portrayed in the bible, but not in a misinterpretation of the bible. He took facts from the bible and drew his own conclusions about what acts were righteous. He did not believe that the bible instructed him to kill the jews. He believed that the jews deserved to die for what was portrayed in the bible. There is a difference.

Anyway you have the crusades to use to give an example of Christianity going nuts - so feel free.

Who are you to say what is the true islam and what is not? Who are you to say what is the true message of christianity, or judasim, and what is not? If you could talk to a knight in the crusades, he would probably provide a rather convincing tale for why he believes God wants him to kill the infidels. Similarly, talking to a muslim terrorist would provide you with some explanation for why certain passages in his holy book mean that God wants him to kill the infidels.

You declare yourself knowledgeable of the correct interpretation of these holy books, but how can you substantiate that? There is a lot of hatred and numerous calls to violence in the Bible, and the same is true for the Koran. You dismiss these passages in favor of the ones you like, but you cannot know you are right to do so.

Bottom line is that these people believe they are the TRUE Muslims, and the knights of the crusade believed they were TRUE Christians. They're all nuts. There is no need to defend these ancient texts.

I can set a good lap in GT 5 and think I'm a true race driver and it doesn't make it so.

It's tough to say who has the more accurate interpretation of a work that contradicts itself dozens of times. But that doesn't mean we can't judge as to who comes closest to the mark on the central tenets of the religion. Christianity values forgiveness on the whole more than it values revenge. They're both in there, but it's obvious to anyone but the most intentionally difficult what is more important.

Ultimately I don't think it matters who comes closest, because so long as the thread that a certain cause has tied itself to can be vaguely seen to be based in scripture they believe that they've got it right. So, you're right that we can't come up with a perfect idea of who's representing their religion more accurately but my counter argument would be that we can certainly see who is grasping at theological straws and / or fighting about largely unimportant details for thousands of years (relations of Mohammed, Protestant/ Catholic differences, etc..) versus the people acting on the central tenets of their faith. Determining what the central tenets are I think comes down to whether you prefer the idea of an old testament, old school, ass kicking and fireball throwing God or a new school lovey-dovey God.

Sorry for the evolving post, final edit.

 

[Danoff]

I can set a good lap in GT 5 and think I'm a true race driver and it doesn't make it so.

Religion is not nearly so cut and dry.

 

[tyl0r_r]

Religion is not nearly so cut and dry.

Correct. I edited the above post to seem like less of a jerk.

 

[nk4e]

I'm not sure what you meant here, but in Europe there was genocide of a culture, the Jews, based on one religion, Judaism.

I was talking about the genocide in the Pacific. The majority of the killings were involving the Imperial Army and its on selfish reasons to kill innocent civilians solely based on a interrupting communications ( or the fact of hiding rebel forces)

 

[Nuck81]

Religion is not nearly so cut and dry.

The fundamental messages of most religions are very cut and dry.

 

[Stevisiov]

The fundamental messages of most religions are very cut and dry.

On the face of it yes, but there is so much in terms of contradiction in the bible, you can easily pick and choose your lines to justify pretty much any interpretation.

I with Danoff in this respect. Regions such as Christianity are so vast, with so many different versions, there are many branches of Christianity because there are so many ways to interpret the many different versions of the bible. You could say a similar thing about Islam of course.

 

[Nuck81]

On the face of it yes, but there is so much in terms of contradiction in the bible, you can easily pick and choose your lines to justify pretty much any interpretation.

I with Danoff in this respect. Regions such as Christianity are so vast, with so many different versions, there are many branches of Christianity because there are so many ways to interpret the many different versions of the bible. You could say a similar thing about Islam of course.

Of Course. I don't disagree with this at all. But if someone asks what Christianity is, you don't spend three days telling every single story of the Bible.

I would also challenge that to pick and choose the lines to justify your interpretation is to not really grasp the true fundamental message on the first place. The reason there are over 35,000 denominations of Christianity is not the fault of Christianity it is the fault of man.

In terms of the Western religions, (I'll admit I know very little of Eastern religions and wouldn't begin to discuss any part of them):

Abraham brought us one God (Monotheism)
Moses brought us Gods laws
Jesus brought us the salvation of all mankind through the sacrifice of God's son
Mohammed brought us Submission to the Will of God
Baha'u'llah brought us the unification of mankind under God

Of Course there is MUCH more to every message that each manifestation of God's message has brought us, but the basic message is simple

 

[Danoff]

Of Course. I don't disagree with this at all. But if someone asks what Christianity is, you don't spend three days telling every single story of the Bible.

I would also challenge that to pick and choose the lines to justify your interpretation is to not really grasp the true fundamental message on the first place. The reason there are over 35,000 denominations of Christianity is not the fault of Christianity it is the fault of man.

In terms of the Western religions, (I'll admit I know very little of Eastern religions and wouldn't begin to discuss any part of them):

Abraham brought us one God (Monotheism)
Moses brought us Gods laws
Jesus brought us the salvation of all mankind through the sacrifice of God's son
Mohammed brought us Submission to the Will of God
Baha'u'llah brought us the unification of mankind under God

Of Course there is MUCH more to every message that each manifestation of God's message has brought us, but the basic message is simple

In terms of the message that we're discussing in this thread, none of that is relevant. We're talking about things like "honor thy neighbor" and "kill the infidels" rather than "where did we come from". It's how religion dictates behavior that we're talking about.

 

[Nuck81]

In terms of the message that we're discussing in this thread, none of that is relevant. We're talking about things like "honor thy neighbor" and "kill the infidels" rather than "where did we come from". It's how religion dictates behavior that we're talking about.

Who is picking and choosing now?

It's perfectly relevant, but I've had me some internets long enough to see where this discussion is going, which is nowhere.

Agree to disagree and all that, take care!!

 

[Mic_Col]

90% of the posts on this page are now just a discussion of religions.

Come on lets get back to what this thread is supposed to be about.

Arguing the call on whether OBL was killed for real or not.

 

[sk0pe]

10 years for the "Worlds biggest superpower" with all their drones,tanks,U2 stealth spy planes, CIA, FBI to Kill ONE man,who was either in 1 or 2 countries, he didn't have the whole world to hide in, just one or 2 countries.. --- Epic Fail America.

Well done, i guess you won?

I have to say the guys nose in the video they posted of UBL does not look him in other video's... Plastic surgery could be done or maybe i'm just imagining about his nose...
Either way 10 years can change the look of you, he probably is dead but i don't know wtf the USA thinks they have achieved?

And those video's of those hormone raged americans cheering and shouting and carrying on like 8year olds at Ground Zero was not a good look lol.
The ugly side of humanity. They complain and cry when their people are killed but think it's a 🤬 birthday party when they kill someone else..

Apparently he didn't fire at the American's so technically it's an assasination, who is USA to say who is and isn't to be killed. Isn't USA all about getting a fair trial and getting your day in court?
Apparently only when it suits them.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

10 years for the "Worlds biggest superpower" with all their drones,tanks,U2 stealth spy planes, CIA, FBI to Kill ONE man,who was either in 1 or 2 countries, he didn't have the whole world to hide in, just one or 2 countries.. --- Epic Fail America.

Well done, i guess you won?

I have to say the guys nose in the video they posted of UBL does not look him in other video's... Plastic surgery could be done or maybe i'm just imagining about his nose...
Either way 10 years can change the look of you, he probably is dead but i don't know wtf the USA thinks they have achieved?

And those video's of those hormone raged americans cheering and shouting and carrying on like 8year olds at Ground Zero was not a good look lol.
The ugly side of humanity. They complain and cry when their people are killed but think it's a 🤬 birthday party when they kill someone else..

Apparently he didn't fire at the American's so technically it's an assasination, who is USA to say who is and isn't to be killed. Isn't USA all about getting a fair trial and getting your day in court?
Apparently only when it suits them.

Bin Laden masterminded a huge attack on innocent civillians (and so is/was alledgedly guilty of crimes against humanity). Him being dead is closure for a lot of people affected directly and indirectly by those attacks.

Pretty simple concept, although people seem to struggle to understand it.

If your innocent mother was killed by someone, would you not seek some form of closure/justice?

Also, despite the wonders of modern intelligence, finding one man intent on hiding in lands where people idolise him is a pretty tall task. Unless you have 100% co-operation and eyes everywhere, it's going to be a long search.

I'm not going to call you out for trolling, but I think a little more respect is due towards the people in the towers and their friends and families that took the brunt of 9/11 - lives were torn apart that day and as small a victory as this may appear, for some it means the end of a long wait to start living again instead of merely existing.

EDIT: Actually, having just re-read your post, I am going to call you out for trolling. You seem very bitter about all this... fan of conspiracy theories or just trying to stir up a fuss? Are you one of them?

 

[arora]

90% of the posts on this page are now just a discussion of religions.

Come on lets get back to what this thread is supposed to be about.

Arguing the call on whether OBL was killed for real or not.

Oh, so that's what the thread is about? In that case yes, OBL was killed for real 👍

 

[Keef]

I still think you're reaching (unnecessarily since you have better examples to choose from). Hitler's hatred of Jews was based on events portrayed in the bible, but not in a misinterpretation of the bible. He took facts from the bible and drew his own conclusions about what acts were righteous. He did not believe that the bible instructed him to kill the jews. He believed that the jews deserved to die for what was portrayed in the bible. There is a difference.

Anyway you have the crusades to use to give an example of Christianity going nuts - so feel free.

Who are you to say what is the true islam and what is not? Who are you to say what is the true message of christianity, or judasim, and what is not? If you could talk to a knight in the crusades, he would probably provide a rather convincing tale for why he believes God wants him to kill the infidels. Similarly, talking to a muslim terrorist would provide you with some explanation for why certain passages in his holy book mean that God wants him to kill the infidels.

You declare yourself knowledgeable of the correct interpretation of these holy books, but how can you substantiate that? There is a lot of hatred and numerous calls to violence in the Bible, and the same is true for the Koran. You dismiss these passages in favor of the ones you like, but you cannot know you are right to do so.

Bottom line is that these people believe they are the TRUE Muslims, and the knights of the crusade believed they were TRUE Christians. They're all nuts. There is no need to defend these ancient texts.

So what you're saying is that since nobody actually understands these religions that the religions are to blame, and therefore we should curtail them.

The Crusaders believed they were true Christians. The good Christians sitting back at home thought they were good Christians. The old men of the church thought they were good Christians. They all practice a good measure or immorality based on the religion, and yet they all believe they are the TRUE Christians.

They're all nuts.

 

[Racedude]

Oh, so that's what the thread is about? In that case yes, OBL was killed for real 👍

This.

The problem now is: Why won't they tell us the exact facts? (Photo being fake, OBL thrown in water, testimonies saying he was taken alive, etc.)

 

[Joel]

This.

The problem now is: Why won't they tell us the exact facts? (Photo being fake, OBL thrown in water, testimonies saying he was taken alive, etc.)

Because if they release real photos, Al Qaeda will us them as propaganda, and the conspiracy nutjobs will just say it's photoshop. There's nothing to gain from releasing the photos.

 

[Villain]

Here's something fun: Son says bin Laden sea burial demeans family: report

Yes, Omar. It's the burial at sea that is demeaning your family, not that your father was a mass murderer. Seriously, they're lucky that the US didn't just drop a JDAM on the compound and be done with it. The things people will get worked up over amazes me.