Osama Bin Laden is dead.

C-ZETA
Well, if it was that long ago, then why haven't they found more on that?
Click to expand...
Let's say you're the President, and al'Qaeda is found to have a nuclear weapon stashed in a major European city. What are you going to do? Admit that the world's most notorious terrorist faction managed to get their hands on the most destructive force on this earth and had planted it inside a major population centre?
 
I'm glad somebody finally put OBL out of his misery. I'm a little confused as to why they buried his corpse at sea so fast - if indeed that is what happened.

The most amazing thing of all is that he was living in a mansion in a suburb of Islamabad populated by retired Generals and ISI - if that is also true! If it turns out that Pakistan was actually protecting and supporting him, that could obviously have implications for US/Pak relations going forward.

Will this operation improve stability, normally a US policy, or will stability in the region be further impaired?
 
I will keep most of my personal opinions to myself, but one thing saddened me reading this thread and watching news programs.

Celebrating?

The thought of celebrating a death is shocking, regardless of who the being is. Celebrate peace when it comes, celebrate the memory of those who died to achieve the peace. But to celebrate death, especially a death that is unlikely to end conflict and has a fair chance to provoke more violence is saddening. This is an event to be noted, that is for sure, to be thankful for, maybe. But not to celebrate. Celebrate the taking of a life and you are no better than the original killer that started all of this.

My 2 cents, not trying to anger others, just trying to point out a sad thing that many gloss over.
 
senamic
I will keep most of my personal opinions to myself, but one thing saddened me reading this thread and watching news programs.

Celebrating?

The thought of celebrating a death is shocking, regardless of who the being is. Celebrate peace when it comes, celebrate the memory of those who died to achieve the peace. But to celebrate death, especially a death that is unlikely to end conflict and has a fair chance to provoke more violence is saddening. This is an event to be noted, that is for sure, to be thankful for, maybe. But not to celebrate. Celebrate the taking of a life and you are no better than the original killer that started all of this.
Click to expand...
As I said before, you don't think people celebrated the death of Hitler? Saddam? These men lived for taking your life for no reason. Their deaths are more than time to celebrate now that they can take no more.
 
McLaren
As I said before, you don't think people celebrated the death of Hitler? Saddam? These men lived for taking your life for no reason. Their deaths are more than time to celebrate now that they can take no more.
Click to expand...

I don't feel Hitler's death should be celebrated, nor should Saddam's have been celebrated. I detest these people, but the celebration of the death is not a good thing in any capacity. Okay, celebrate the decrease in attacks, if that indeed happens (as was the case with Hitler, many Germans laid down arms when they heard the news). But there is no rational reason, save bloodlust or some misguided notion of vengeance, to celebrate the death of anyone, however horrid they were in life. My issue is with people celebrating the fact he is dead, or was killed, not with people celebrating a potential peace.
 
Dotini
I'm a little confused as to why they buried his corpse at sea so fast - if indeed that is what happened.
Click to expand...

Two reasons.

The first is that Islamic custom requires that a body be laid to rest within 24 hours of death (ideally before next prayer). The body must first be washed (by a fellow Muslim) and then buried in a plain white cloth, the burial can be at sea or land. Ensuring this happens helps to ensure that no offence is caused to any section of the Islamic community, in other words, the customs and beliefs they follow have been respected. This is in my opinion actually quite an important move, as it help to ensure that mainstream Muslims are not offended and the religion (which is after all not the target) is respected.

The second is that a burial at sea leaves no marker, no place at which those who follow OBL can turn into a shrine, meeting place, etc. It also makes the body almost totally impossible to recover (again for the same reason).

Its for these two (to me rather logical) reasons that I'm not joining the mass of 'cover-up' theories that have started to appear on the web.



Scaff
 
senamic
I don't feel Hitler's death should be celebrated, nor should Saddam's have been celebrated. I detest these people, but the celebration of the death is not a good thing in any capacity. Okay, celebrate the decrease in attacks, if that indeed happens (as was the case with Hitler, many Germans laid down arms when they heard the news). But there is no rational reason, save bloodlust or some misguided notion of vengeance, to celebrate the death of anyone, however horrid they were in life. My issue is with people celebrating the fact he is dead, or was killed, not with people celebrating a potential peace.
Click to expand...
Then that's just how you'll choose to deal with it. The man took lives for no reason than to do it because his religion said so.

I'm glad he's dead. He didn't deserve to live & a bullet to the head was a justified death as far as I'm concerned. It appears several million people in the US agree & celebrate his inability to cause any more harm. The only issue I see is how far people wanted his body to go.
 
Dotini
I'm a little confused as to why they buried his corpse at sea so fast - if indeed that is what happened.
Click to expand...
Because it's in keeping with Islamic law, which dictates that a body must be buried as soon as possible - generally before the next sunset - or else person will be denied entry into paradise. Now, one might argue that given bin Laden's actions, he has no claim to enter paradise ... but it's not our place to judge him. According to Islamic law, Allah is the only one who may judge a person's soul. Remember, most Muslims condemn bin Laden's actions just as much as the rest of the world does. To them, bin Laden would be denied entry to paradise for his actions.

There's a second reason why bin Laden's body was buried so quickly: by observing Islamic law in putting the body to rest, America retains a respectable reputation within the Islamic world. There are jihadists who will hate America regardless of what they do, but that is no reason to alienate the rest of the Muslim community. Not only will people be less likely to take up arms with the news that America respected bin Laden's faith, it weakens the position of the jihadists who claim that Americans are an enemy without honour or respect.

As for the burial at sea, it was done that way because a grave on land somewhere would simply become a shrine to aspiring martyrs. He was buried at sea - America won't say which one, much less where he was buried (though if I had to guess, I'd say he's currently somewhere in the middle of the Indian Ocean, south of Diego Garcia and off the African coast) - and a similar fate awaits his second-in-command.

Dotini
The most amazing thing of all is that he was living in a mansion in a suburb of Islamabad populated by retired Generals and ISI - if that is also true!
Click to expand...
Abbottabad is not a suburb of Islamabad - it's some 65km away. The ISI does not have a base in Abbottabad (there's not actually much there; there's only one Twitter user, and he inadvertently liveblogged the raid when he heard the helicopters).
 
Ding dong, the asshole's dead.

I'm never glad when anyone's dead, but for a mass-murderer, I make exceptions. I'll leave it at that: Dead is dead.

One final note, it is also common in Jewish tradition to bury within 24 hours, with the exception of the Sabbath or other holy days (usually the following day). So this kills off one part of a conspiracy theory, due to some traditions that are similar between Semetic cultures.
 
Last edited:
McLaren
Then that's just how you'll choose to deal with it. The man took lives for no reason than to do it because his religion said so.

I'm glad he's dead. He didn't deserve to live & a bullet to the head was a justified death as far as I'm concerned. It appears several million people in the US agree & celebrate his inability to cause any more harm. The only issue I see is how far people wanted his body to go.
Click to expand...

I will agree to disagree with you, as your opinion, while I disagree, is rationally formed. I would stretch that he may have had other reasons (from personal psycopathy to bloodlust) and justified it with religion, similar to previous jihad leaders (and popes, political leaders and so on and so forth). But I get your intention, that he caused death for reasons you see as irrational.

I also agree he should have been killed, regardless of my personal views. I volunteer in conservation groups, and we routinely cull large quantities of animals, by gassing or by shooting. We all congratulate each other on good shots, and can take pride in doing a job well. But we take no pride, hold no celebration over the fact that these animals that were alive the day before are now dead. I apply that to this instance in that we can be proud that we have achieved this, be proud of those who achieved it, and be hopeful it has improved the world. But to celebrate death for the sake of an unliked person being dead, I can't see the reason in it. Call it a crisis of conscience from my background.

As for people who wanted to desecrate the body post mortem, I feel that some of them would be fair game to be culled alongside Usama, depending on their other views.
 
I have to admit, there's one person whose view I'm really interested in: David Letterman. A week after the September Eleven attacks, he said the following:
The reason we were attacked, the reason these people are dead, these people are missing and dead … They weren't doing anything wrong, they were living their lives, they were going to work, they were traveling, they were doing what they normally do. Uh, as I understand it—and my understanding of this is vague, at best—another smaller group of people stole some airplanes and crashed them into buildings. And we're told that they were zealots fueled by religious fervor, religious fervor. And if you live to be a thousand years old, will that make any sense to you? Will that make any goddamned sense?
Click to expand...
Although it's more striking if you can hear it yourself (it starts at 5:05):



I'm interested in what he has to say in bin Laden's death probably because I feel his reaction to the attacks really summarised what a lot of people where thinking and feeling at the time. And I really respect the way he wasn't afraid of letting himself become emotional. So I'm really curious as to what he has to say in all of this.
 
Dotini
I'm glad somebody finally put OBL out of his misery. I'm a little confused as to why they buried his corpse at sea so fast - if indeed that is what happened.

The most amazing thing of all is that he was living in a mansion in a suburb of Islamabad populated by retired Generals and ISI - if that is also true! If it turns out that Pakistan was actually protecting and supporting him, that could obviously have implications for US/Pak relations going forward.

Will this operation improve stability, normally a US policy, or will stability in the region be further impaired?
Click to expand...
It sounds like the Pakistani's were indeed informing him of US operations. He's "go out of town" when US forces headed over to check the area.

I dont see US expressing outrage over this ^. US still needs them as a base for future operations.
 
Who will get the $50,000,000 reward?

The Speical Ops guys or the guy that informed them about the the guy that vistits him.
 
Dotini
The most amazing thing of all is that he was living in a mansion in a suburb of Islamabad populated by retired Generals and ISI - if that is also true! If it turns out that Pakistan was actually protecting and supporting him, that could obviously have implications for US/Pak relations going forward.
Click to expand...

interludes
Abbottabad is not a suburb of Islamabad - it's some 65km away. The ISI does not have a base in Abbottabad (there's not actually much there; there's only one Twitter user, and he inadvertently liveblogged the raid when he heard the helicopters).
Click to expand...

Of what I'm seeing/reading in the news, Abottabad is where Pakistan's military academy is situated. Also, it's a relatively 'posh' area and home to retired Pakistani Army and ISI officers.

Add to this, that mansion is 8 times the size of the houses nearby. So it doesn't seem to be a "not anything there" kind of place.
 
interludes
It means the reports that bin Laden had been buried at sea had not been confirmed, not his actual death. They buried him at sea because a grave somewhere on the land would become a shine for terrorists to rally around. Right now, Osama bin Laden is probably sinking to the bottom of the Indian Ocean.
Click to expand...

Thank you captain obvious, now allow me to point out the obvious too - I was referring to them ditching him at sea....which creates suspicion about something to hide..such as it not being the real bin Laden. No one can confirm his death now other than taking the US government/military's word on it.
 
I think we will get some pictures or videos this week. So stop fueling a conspiracy.
 
Ardius
Thank you captain obvious, now allow me to point out the obvious too - I was referring to them ditching him at sea....which creates suspicion about something to hide..such as it not being the real bin Laden. No one can confirm his death now other than taking the US government/military's word on it.
Click to expand...
Not quite true - it would be very simple for OBL himself, his family, his Al-Qaeda buddies etc. to disprove a fake story at the drop of a hat. One thing is for sure, if it is all a lie or a bluff/con, then it would be the most extraordinarily risky move for the US president himself to attempt... there is no way on Earth that Obama would make such a statement (confirming OBL's death) unless he was 100 % certain of its veracity.

Obama's statement puts the onus squarely on those who believe OBL is still alive to put up or shut up. I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
Bin Laden might not want to "disprove" it though, because being a deadman is quite handy.

McLaren
They're doing to make sure his final resting place is never known & doesn't become some burial shrine for terrorists. They plan to do that to whomever is next in command as well.
Click to expand...

Uh, so instead people will just go to this mansion in Pakistan? Mission accomplished? :lol:

As I said, it makes me suspicious, I don't see the need to discard the body like that - not that the body should be put on display in a museum - just the act of dumping the body where no one can find it sounds like they are trying to hide something.
There isn't really a good way to deal with the problem of his body, giving him a proper burial would be giving him too much respect (at least in the eyes of the victims) and simply chucking him in the sea isn't going to go down well with his supporters.
 
Last edited:
Dennisch
I think we will get some pictures or videos this week. So stop fueling a conspiracy.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy
–noun, plural -cies.
1.
the act of conspiring.
2.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.
a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.

Conspire
–verb (used without object)
1.
to agree together, especially secretly, to do something wrong, evil, or illegal: They conspired to kill the king.
2.
to act or work together toward the same result or goal.
–verb (used with object)
3.
to plot (something wrong, evil, or illegal).

Just warning you, conspiracy is not the term you are looking for in this case. It has become an abused term, fueling a conspiracy theory, that is, a theory that a conspiracy has occured, is a more appropriate choice. Interestingly, most people now think that the conspiracy bit is the bit that the people making the challenging claim are doing, whereas they are presenting a theory (either true or not) that a conspiracy has occured, hence the term used in comedies involving conspiracy theorists, where they proclaim "It is all a conspiracy". They are not being self referential.

Sorry, just a pet peeve, a long running one. Really, he would be fueling a conspiracy theory (which I don't support in this case), but by saying what you said, you would be the one fueling the thing claimed to be a conspiracy.
 
And i think Islam forbids an autopsy on the body, so they couldn't see if he did get that new kidney he needed.

Correct me if i am wrong.
 
If he's been lampin' in mansions, I'm sure he got his kidney.
 
Well as i have said before, the US certanly knew that Bin Laden was hiding in pakistan, why they didnt capture him earlyer, thats a good question. Second the US intelligence also knew that famous terrorists lived like kings in villages in pakistan.

Well, what can we say? I think that the US knows more than they want to tell us. Bin Laden isnt even wanted for the 9/11, but for some bombings of an embassy in africa in the 80/90s.
 
Grayfox
Found the a source stating the Al-Qaeda would go nuts if bin larden was killed or captured

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8241119/capturing-bin-laden-would-unleash-hell
Click to expand...

Well everybody celebrating, but the question is as you adressed, what will happen next? Al qaida, as we all know have no problem finding less fortunate people to do their dirty works. Thats why i also wrote that the US knew where Bin Laden was hiding, they also knew there would be consequences if they would assasinate Mr B Laden. It was just a matter of time.

According to me, al qaida as an organisation wont have problems functioning without bin laden, im sure there are other people/governments funding their activities (cough, cough, saudi arabia, cough).

I think we will see some shady aftermaths of some kind...
 

Similar threads

Famine
Is Gran Turismo Sport Already Dead?
2 3 4
Replies
102
Views
25K
Famine
Famine
TheNormsk
Is it possible to tune out the dead spot on the G29 wheel in GT7?
Replies
4
Views
8K
TheNormsk
TheNormsk
Cryonics
GT2 NTSC-U with japanese OST
Replies
2
Views
5K
pez2k
P
Jordan
Genesis X Gran Berlinetta Vision Gran Turismo Concept
5 6 7
Replies
193
Views
34K
P-Courty
P-Courty
Eunos_Cosmo
The Middle East
4 5 6
Replies
165
Views
18K
Eunos_Cosmo
Eunos_Cosmo

Latest Posts

Back