pɐǝɹɥʇ lɐᴉɔᴉɟɟoun ǝɥʇ - ɐᴉlɐɹʇsn∀

[LeMansAid]

Rubbish, the other 70 indigenous players don't get booed at all. So it's only racism when Goodes is involved?

Well, some are - and while booing is a thing, so they should be. Crowds..... a) Try to put (particularly influential) players off their game, and b) Let there opinion be known to players that have suspect characters in their view. I think no player is immune while kicking for goal "behind enemy lines", players that left a club dubiously are targeted as boo fodder, and players that have gone out of their way to antagonise the opposition crowd will cop a hell of an ear lashing.

So I'd just slightly amend your point to say that none of the other aboriginal players are booed excessively. ALL of the players, black, white, or other, are booed in accordance with the same rationale. Goodes has earned his booing by being a stellar performer, by some suspect acts (like threatening an opposition crowd), and probably by the AFL giving him a "free pass" with light treatment for on field indiscretions.

He's the most successful and the most prominent indigenous player, and therefore a symbol of all indigenous players. By booimg him, the fans are booing all indigenous players.

Ooh, ooh..... do I get to say it?........... source required.

It's fine to have your opinion, just don't present it as fact. I'm basing my view on how other players have been treated in the past. Goodes appears to have been given preferential treatment, against the grain of precedents. I think that many football people have been mouthing the politically correct lines for fear of being labelled Andrew Bolt - the truth of their views hidden. Some of those hidden views might be ugly, some of them balanced - I think it's such a shame if balanced views have been largely locked out of the discussion.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Oh, yes, convince yourself that you're not racist; you're just expressing a valid opinion, and if someone doesn't like it, then that their problem to deal with. Because you're the victim here.

I promise you that every single racist - "actual" racist, the ones out there "giving you a bad name" - is convincing him of the very same thing.

 

[LeMansAid]

Oh, yes, convince yourself that you're not racist; you're just expressing a valid opinion, and if someone doesn't like it, then that their problem to deal with. Because you're the victim here.

I promise you that every single racist - "actual" racist, the ones out there "giving you a bad name" - is convincing him of the very same thing.

Can we first be clear with who "you" is in your post, and if it varies from the first paragraph to the second?

 

[jimipitbull]

Oh, yes, convince yourself that you're not racist; you're just expressing a valid opinion, and if someone doesn't like it, then that their problem to deal with. Because you're the victim here.

I promise you that every single racist - "actual" racist, the ones out there "giving you a bad name" - is convincing him of the very same thing.

What if there was footage of an indigenous supporter booing Goodes. Would he/she be considered racist?

 

[Johnnypenso]

What if there was footage of an indigenous supporter booing Goodes. Would he/she be considered racist?

I believe he or she would be an internalized racist... of course that's only if you believe that booing someone at a sporting event makes you a racist. If that's the case, I hate everyone

 

[LeMansAid]

Oh, yes, convince yourself that you're not racist; you're just expressing a valid opinion, and if someone doesn't like it, then that their problem to deal with. Because you're the victim here.

I promise you that every single racist - "actual" racist, the ones out there "giving you a bad name" - is convincing him of the very same thing.

Can we first be clear with who "you" is in your post, and if it varies from the first paragraph to the second?

Can I get an e.t.a. on this?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Can I get an e.t.a. on this?

Sure - around the time you contribute something substantial to a discussion, rather than changing whatever it is that you stand for so that you can go after whoever it is that you're going after this week.

So, in other words, never. I know you'd rather snap at the heels of others and convince yourself that you're clever, because the alternative is to commit to something - and if you commit, you might get called out on your beliefs, and that thought genuinely terrifies you.

 

[mustafur]

I guess everyone booing Daly Cherry Evans for his contract turnaround is also a racist, oh wait he is white.

When someone is unlikeable and does something to be unliked by more then the result is what follows, don't hide behind a race card.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Oh, yes. How dare Goodes celebrate his achievements on the field. There's truly no greater monster in our society.

 

[jimipitbull]

Oh, yes. How dare Goodes celebrate his achievements on the field. There's truly no greater monster in our society.

Are you saying that a war dance is an appropriate way to celebrate a football goal?

I wasn't actually aware of any war dances among the Australian Aborigines. They are historically referenced as a peaceful race. Where do you think he might have learnt it from?
Perhaps his fathers side of the family?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I wasn't actually aware of any war dances among the Australian Aborigines. They are historically referenced as a peaceful race.

There are over three hundred different individual aboriginal nations. Not all of them get along with one another; in fact, at the time of colonisation, many of them were as foreign to one another as the Europeans were. One of my first pracs was at a school where we had to be very careful about the issue because the school's student intake drew on an area that was inhabited by two nations that traditionally hadn't gotten along with one another.

 

[LeMansAid]

Are you saying that a war dance is an appropriate way to celebrate a football goal?

I don't think that "celebrate" without qualifiers, actually describes it entirely anyway. A qualifier in the low range might see it as having been a taunt at best, but rather than a benign or cheeky taunt, it presented as threatening. All of which I'd personally have no problem with if it was not at odds with the conduct that the AFL and the clubs expect of their players in general. It's private enterprise, and they can conduct business however they choose - but I have no doubt that there is a political correctness driven hypocrisy at play.

That's the crux of it for me - did Goodes receive equal treatment from his employers? It's a resounding no in my view.

 

[Com Fox]

Apparently in the next game Sydney Swans play (which is against Geelong at MCG). They're going to kick out people from the stadium when they boo Adam Goodes.

I hear about people getting kicked out of stadiums because of words they say but Booing is ridiculous. Not to mention highly unlikely to kick THEM ALL out. Otherwise we'll be seeing the least amount of crowd in AFL History.

 

[Grayfox]

So you cant boo when the otherside scores if it is Goodes but you can boo if it is not Googes?
So from racism to discrimination.

 

[mustafur]

Apparently in the next game Sydney Swans play (which is against Geelong at MCG). They're going to kick out people from the stadium when they boo Adam Goodes.

I hear about people getting kicked out of stadiums because of words they say but Booing is ridiculous. Not to mention highly unlikely to kick THEM ALL out. Otherwise we'll be seeing the least amount of crowd in AFL History.

Something tells me if he didn't have a big rant about this, it would probably be over by now.

 

[LeMansAid]

Something tells me if he didn't have a big rant about this, it would probably be over by now.

I expect you're right. Though there's nothing wrong with a rant, and there's no need for it to be over - it just needs to be based on something logical, and equitable. If it's a conversation about excessive booing equaling bullying, then it should be addressed with a much wider frame than it currently is.

Australia is a place that tends to shun a class system*. On the flip side, we can be a bit over the top with the tall poppy syndrome - but that's how we keep the egos in check. We're traditionally suspicious of people with big money, fame or talent, but don't count people out that have one, two, or all of those things. Character and attitude are judged over your pay packet, celebrity status, and achievements/potential.

I think that this Goodes saga has seen us go against those ordinary checks and balances. Where a club would normally give a stern "Hey, pull your head in mate", his actions were celebrated. Where the AFL would normally give at minimum, a fine, his actions were celebrated. Where crowds would normally express their disapproval through chants, and booing, they've been asked to be silent - or celebrate. Maybe "Careful what you wish for.... " applies here.

* Yes, Australians really do have no class.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Character and attitude are judged over your pay packet, celebrity status, and achievements/potential.

What does it say about the extraordinary lengths that you have gone to in order to rationalise the behaviour of the fans? Who are you really trying to convince that the behaviour is a justifiable reaction to an arrogant behaviour and not racism - the public, or yourself? Or are you just afraid that there really is a racist buried somewhere in the crowds and that you'll be guilty of association and hence the extraordinary lengths that you have gone to in order to distance yourself from them?

 

[TenEightyOne]

My mother has booked for a full week in Nottingham and now has nothing to do for the rest of it. Thanks, Australia.

 

[Grayfox]

My mother has booked for a full week in Nottingham and now has nothing to do for the rest of it. Thanks, Australia.

You're Welcome.

 

[LeMansAid]

What does it say about the extraordinary lengths that you have gone to in order to rationalise the behaviour of the fans? Who are you really trying to convince that the behaviour is a justifiable reaction to an arrogant behaviour and not racism - the public, or yourself? Or are you just afraid that there really is a racist buried somewhere in the crowds and that you'll be guilty of association and hence the extraordinary lengths that you have gone to in order to distance yourself from them?

Several people, including me, have raised points to counter your take on the happenings, and repercussions (both potential and actual). That you have ignored those and have chosen to steadfastly attempt to demonise my character instead, speaks volumes.

The opinion I express does not come from the person you appear to so desperately want it to come from. Out in the real world, people are dealing in all shades - not just black and white. I don't care if the opinion I have on a particular topic is shared by a racist person. Racist person, and racist behaviour are two different phenomena - not all behaviour from a racist person is actually racist. Truth matters to me, and trumps looking shiny and clean to observers. It doesn't make a lick of difference if "there really is a racist buried somewhere in the crowds".

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There is nothing so relative or malleable as the truth. It is a fundamental aspect of the human experience that people will always remember events in such a way that they are the victims, not the victimiser. If there is controversy surrounding people booing Goodes, then those people will always remember it in such a way that they were booing for perfectly legitimate and unrelated reasons, unfairly lumped in with the racists and therefore they have done nothing wrong. They will accept that as the "truth", and never once consider that, even if their actions were as legitimate and as unrelated to racism as they like to believe, they contributed to the problem by inspiring others.

You don't seek truth. You seek reassurance that you alone were righteous, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Because if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem. I believe that the person most famous for this was quoted as saying "let them eat cake!".

 

[LeMansAid]

You seek reassurance that you alone were righteous, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

The missing link.

 

[jimipitbull]

The crowd should take the piss and cheer for Goodes every time he does something good, bad or indifferent. Where ever he is on the ground, the nearby crowd section should go nuts, do war dances and throw stuff in the air.

It's not like he could play the race card if a Mexican wave followed him around the ground.

 

[Keef]

Why is the Australian thread unofficial while the American thread is official? Come on, what are you, British? Screw that. I didn't flirt with that Australian girl on the plane while her husband was asleep for no reason. And she didn't flirt with me just because I was a dope American. Or did she? Get it right.

 

[polysmut]

Why is the Australian thread unofficial while the American thread is official? Come on, what are you, British? Screw that. I didn't flirt with that Australian girl on the plane while her husband was asleep for no reason. And she didn't flirt with me just because I was a dope American. Or did she? Get it right.

It's explained here. 👍

 

[jimipitbull]

Why is the Australian thread unofficial while the American thread is official? Come on, what are you, British? Screw that. I didn't flirt with that Australian girl on the plane while her husband was asleep for no reason. And she didn't flirt with me just because I was a dope American. Or did she? Get it right.

Lost in translation. In Australia, dope means either marijuana, or dopey (ie. a bit slow)

My guess is that she was hanging for a cone.

 

[Keef]

Lost in translation. In Australia, dope means either marijuana, or dopey (ie. a bit slow)

It's used for those things here as well but not much anymore. These days it usually refers to the finest of performance enhancers...

Thus, it is synonymous with "awesome".

 

[prisonermonkeys]

My mother has booked for a full week in Nottingham and now has nothing to do for the rest of it. Thanks, Australia.

We'll add Stuart Broad to the file:

 

[Com Fox]

So the booing of Adam Goodes seemed to have died down.

Thank you Adam for taking away the Freedom we had just because you are way too insecure and completely use the race card unfairly for your gain . Even though you still failed.

The Booing might have stopped but it still hasn't stopped people from making "negative noises" around Adam Goodes.

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However, there's one thing for certain that this controversy shows. Seems that some People (including Adam Goodes) don't even know what Racism actually is and just assume that saying something negative to someone of a different race, is racist without knowing the reason why the negativity exists in the first place;

If the reason for the negativity is because he is apart of the race; then it's racist.

If it's because of anything else; then it isn't racist.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Seems that some People (including Adam Goodes) don't even know what Racism actually is and just assume that saying something negative to someone of a different race, is racist without knowing the reason why the negativity exists in the first place

Think of the implications of this statement - that so long as you can justify it, racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia or any other form of discrimination is acceptable. But the idea of justification is abstract and unclear, so any bigot can stand up and say what they want whilst defending the action of saying it and expecting the target of their bigotry to simply take it without complaint.