Partial Government Shutdown. Re opened 10/17/13

Danoff
How long has the US owed money? A century?
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Much longer then that- we were born into debt. Did you really think a war with England that destroyed a good bit of land would be cheap?
We've only been completely out of debt once- in the 1830s under Andrew Jackson. Other then that brief month or so we've always been in debt.
 
I dont know why they shut down the tourist hotspots.

The money that the tourists bring in not only can pay for the guides wages, but give some money to the goverment, albiet a small small amount but it is still something.
 
They've been stifling the USPTO as well - a branch of the government that actually brings in money due to patent examination fees. So... no logic to be found.
 
Grayfox
I dont know why they shut down the tourist hotspots.

The money that the tourists bring in not only can pay for the guides wages, but give some money to the goverment, albiet a small small amount but it is still something.
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They have to, because the fund for managing those installations come from state budget distributed by the central government as an expenditure, whilst those administered independently on their own discretion are not affected with the shutdown of agencies for the cost needed for administration comes of a different resource.
 
Danoff
So... no logic to be found.
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There's plenty of logic behind it. You can't terrify an entire population by saying the government is "shut down" if it's still operating.
 
Why not see if Saudi Arabia will help you out? All those arms deals must have put you in their good books.
 
The government shutdown is taking it's toll on Obama, his personal staff has been drastically reduced (by 75%):

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreen...ake-do-with-only-14-of-his-1701-person-staff/

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/arti...hutdown-would-lay-three-quarters-obamas-staff

A US government shutdown would mean President Barack Obama had fewer people to cook meals, do the laundry, clean the floors or change the light bulbs, according to a White House contingency plan.
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This will negatively affect Michelle's Twitter account as well, without her 16(!) assistants who run it:

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreen...-16-assistants-limiting-her-ability-to-tweet/

Congress needs to get their act together A.S.A.P.!!! The Obama's can't live under these conditions!
 
I seen a comment on this causing a global recession, but I read somewhere that countries the aren't based off the dollar shouldn't be worried. Basically, the US and many allies that are basically funded by the dollar will definitely feel this even if running there own currency. But countries that are funded by Euro or Pound etc. should be fine, and may experience a small boom.

Is this correct or will this effect everyone in a negative way?
 
Matty
Is this correct or will this effect everyone in a negative way?
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Neither of the above.

I don't expect this to affect anyone - but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with inflation of the dollar. If anything it prevents inflation (veeeery slightly) because the government has trouble printing physical money when the printing machines aren't being operated.
 
Matty
I seen a comment on this causing a global recession, but I read somewhere that countries the aren't based off the dollar shouldn't be worried. Basically, the US and many allies that are basically funded by the dollar will definitely feel this even if running there own currency. But countries that are funded by Euro or Pound etc. should be fine, and may experience a small boom.

Is this correct or will this effect everyone in a negative way?
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Are you talking about the government shutdown or the possibility that Congress fails to agree to increase the debt ceiling in a few weeks? The former is unlikely to affect global markets/economies much unless it drags on and on, which now that it has started is a definite possibility, but the latter could potentially have a much bigger impact - failure to raise the debt ceiling hasn't happened yet and is perhaps still unlikely to happen, although after the shutdown actually went ahead, I am less confident now that it won't happen, since both sides seem convinced that full responsibility lies with the other side. The precise effects of failing to raise the debt ceiling would be difficult to predict, but there are not many analysts out there who think that it would be benign.

For me, Obama ultimately holds the ace card because, as even John McCain has pointed out, Obamacare is the law and it is the result of the democratic process (such as it is) in the US, and so far the majority of the US people view the opponents of Obamacare as attempting to subvert the democratic will of the people, which is not great if you are planning a run for the presidency any time soon. The Republicans are attempting to cripple Obamacare by any means necessary, including the threat of failing to allow Obama to raise the debt ceiling in a couple of weeks time. It's a very high risk strategy, and while Obama (and the Democrats) will shoulder some of the blame, arguably it is the Republicans (and in particular the Tea Party candidates such as Rand Paul and Ted Cruz) who stand to lose the most in the eyes of the US public if the excrement hits the air circulation appliance.
 
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Districts from which the conservative "Tea Party" Congressmen arise are unlikely to vote out their man, because they are doing exactly what they were elected to do. They are safe, safe, safe. Unless their constituents have some kind of epiphany. Part of the Republican credo is to reduce government, and maybe take it down several pegs, not just a few.

In more moderate districts, a Republican incumbent or candidate always lives in mortal dread of the primary, where he/she faces a high conservative hurdle.

So politics in the US are highly polarized, and likely to stay that way failing much creative redistricting. The notoriety of folks such as Cruz make it more likely for Republicans to regain the White House, but also to lose the House of Representatives, I've heard some analysts say.

In the event of a default, nobody is exactly sure of the consequences - except for one thing: interest rates will rise. This will be a silver lining for savers, who have seen interest on their nest eggs tumble to well under 1%, an extraordinarily low historical rate. With default, Americans will learn the true meaning of austerity, and they may not like it. Foreigners holding US sovereign debt need not worry quite so much, since they will be paid first.

As for "Obamacare", it was a law passed without a particle of Republican input as to its contents. It appears to have many rough edges and problems as it goes into effect. It will take about a year before it is possible to tell whether it is a success or catastrophic failure due to young people failing to sign up or re-up after they see the costs.

In short, it is a giant roll of the dice on all sides. There will be blood, and much gnashing of teeth.

What with no real recovery to the 2008 crisis, growing poverty and disappearing middle class, plummeting confidence in government only added to by the NSA scandals, and a growing atmosphere of corruption, it is obvious the current state of the union is undesirable and unsustainable. What, if anything, will truly fix it, no one can say.

However, there is a ray of hope from Colorado, where the first crop of industrial hemp in the US since 1957 is being harvested. IMHO what we need are many new industries based on this highly useful weed in the sectors of food, fuel, medicine, clothing, paper and building materials. And 5% interest on savings.
 
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Breaking News - Shots have been fired around the capitol building.

BBC News
Shots have been reported fired near the US Capitol in Washington DC, with police locking down offices in the area.

US Capitol Police said a police officer was injured, the Associated Press reported.

Journalists, congressional staffers and tourists have been ordered to take shelter on the complex or at the US Supreme Court building.
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Robin.
Breaking News - Shots have been fired around the capitol building.
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Nothing overly important, it seems now. A woman driving erratically in a black Lexus (with baby on board!) refused to stop for police. She was chased and shot at. She's dead now.
 
I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard during the last shutdown in the 90's is when Bill Clinton supposedly met Monica Lewinsky.
 
Danoff
A breakdown of who isn't working: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/2013-shutdown-federal-department-impact/?hpid=z3
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So basically everybody the government actually needs to work will still be working and all the jobs that aren't necessary but were created to help reduce unemployment will be furloughed. Wait, isn't that kinda how it works in the market, you know, they way it should be? People you don't need are gotten rid of so you don't waste money?

This is the best thing the government could have done. It should be like this all the time.
 
Touring Mars
Are you talking about the government shutdown or the possibility that Congress fails to agree to increase the debt ceiling in a few weeks? The former is unlikely to affect global markets/economies much unless it drags on and on, which now that it has started is a definite possibility, but the latter could potentially have a much bigger impact - failure to raise the debt ceiling hasn't happened yet and is perhaps still unlikely to happen, although after the shutdown actually went ahead, I am less confident now that it won't happen, since both sides seem convinced that full responsibility lies with the other side. The precise effects of failing to raise the debt ceiling would be difficult to predict, but there are not many analysts out there who think that it would be benign.
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It's being reported that Boehner has privately told his party that he will not allow the country to default, which by default means he will have to allow a passable piece of legislation to raise the debt ceiling to go to the floor.

Keef
So basically everybody the government actually needs to work will still be working and all the jobs that aren't necessary but were created to help reduce unemployment will be furloughed. Wait, isn't that kinda how it works in the market, you know, they way it should be? People you don't need are gotten rid of so you don't waste money?
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Funny, I just read an article today alluding to what you just wrote.

It's a good read; quite thought provoking too.
 
The Guardian are reporting that "US stock markets tumble as shutdown worries investors" and go on to note that the Dow Jones has suffered it's biggest drop since September 20... that's a whole two weeks!!1! :eek:

Crash
It's being reported that Boehner has privately told his party that he will not allow the country to default, which by default means he will have to allow a passable piece of legislation to raise the debt ceiling to go to the floor.
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No doubt that has been the plan all along, at least I sincerely hope it was - they will get the maximum amount of mileage out of the shutdown and take the threat of default right to the wire, and then a deal will be done.

Adamgp
I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard during the last shutdown in the 90's is when Bill Clinton supposedly met Monica Lewinsky.
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If you can think of a better way to keep an intern busy during a shutdown, I'd like to hear it.

💡
 
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So much for those that didn't think it'd happen. Both are at fault equally but I feel almost inclined to agree with republicans based on how much the Democrats are trying to coerce (or already seems to be accepted) that the republicans should only be to blame here. That irritates me and I find it tough to see why mass media is churning the democrat machine (even CNN and nightly news) based on the premise that due to media being on their side and seeing republicans as the party with fringe and crazies the dems are obviously always in the right.

The context needs to be changed and made more realistic.
 
Apparently due to the shutdown, there's only one person currently maintaining and cleaning the 8,000 monuments along the border with Canada. When will this madness end!?
 
Don't look at us to clean those.

The sap's running. We're busy.


Has the Government really 'Shutdown'?
Again the semantic posturing of the same spin-doctors who throw around gobs of loose change, platitudes peppered with slang, in the marketplace.
Much like the word 'Obamacare' for what is really The Affordable Health Care Act (one that was already debated and accepted). The Affordable Health Care Act sounds too positive for some. Much like the word 'Shutdown' is negative to others.

This so called 'shutdown' didn't affect the same Congress that gave a standing ovation to the 'unpaid' (as yet) Capitol Police for their work yesterday, the same Congress that applauded the vote that they weren't needed after all, and shouldn't be paid - or have affordable health care, either.

This is still political posturing. The world keeps turning, the weather keeps changing.
Someone lost their mother.
A kid din't go to school.

Basically, someone better make up their minds quick before the whole world shuts down . . . which is a whole other thing.
 
photonrider
Don't look at us to clean those.

The sap's running. We're busy.


Has the Government really 'Shutdown'?
Again the semantic posturing of the same spin-doctors who throw around gobs of loose change, platitudes peppered with slang, in the marketplace.
Much like the word 'Obamacare' for what is really The Affordable Health Care Act (one that was already debated and accepted). The Affordable Health Care Act sounds too positive for some. Much like the word 'Shutdown' is negative to others.
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Or maybe they just followed what is not an uncommon practice of naming major intitiatives after the President that drove them into existence. The Bush Doctrine, Reaganomics, Clintoncare...etc.
 
Affordable care act aka the health care system that could only be passed after everyone in senate, congress, and the whitehouse was allowed to opt out... Yeah, something about that tells me it's a great idea.

Sadly enough, that's really what all this is about.
Blame a million other issues but at the end of the day we are seeing this "shutdown" because lawmakers can't agree to screw the people (maybe some of them have a conscious enough to not make us take part in what they wouldn't do?).
 
Robin.
Yeah, things are starting to get tense. The 17th could potentially effect the whole world.
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It would take a few months to take effect. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is pretty slow and it takes a few months for them already, so I'm not that worried.

I really hope American Gov get their act together and stop this plutocracy.
 

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