PD vs Hackers "Notice of Account Ban Measures"

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Johnnypenso
Look for a circuit racing room with street cars and a decent level of participation (not 1 or 2 guys hotlapping) on the tires they came with and you'll understand what he's talking about:lol: If you want F1 qualifying tires on your Honda Civic, drag racing, drifting, cruising or some Nascar, sure plenty of that. But the very thing the series was built on, is almost non-existant online.
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Exactly. On the rare chance you find a room that isn't using some form of racing tires there's maybe two or three people in there. Anymore if I decide to venture into a public room I just look for karts, if I can't find a karts room (which I usually can't) then I just open my own room and drive a car around a track for a bit. Occasionally a friend or two pop in and we hoon around and have a splendid time, but the public rooms are a wasteland of racing tire nonsense.
 
Johnnypenso
Look for a circuit racing room with street cars and a decent level of participation (not 1 or 2 guys hotlapping) on the tires they came with and you'll understand what he's talking about:lol: If you want F1 qualifying tires on your Honda Civic, drag racing, drifting, cruising or some Nascar, sure plenty of that. But the very thing the series was built on, is almost non-existant online.
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That's funny Johnny,I would have no clue what stock street cars and no ABS rooms are about. I don't use racing tires on a street car, drag racing,yeah great timing system and track,cruising,really?,thanks I will do that in my real car or bike. NASCAR,yep, only with competent drivers.Actually good now that they fixed the slip stream/draft.
I have friends from all over the world,not hard for me to find a room at all. You know as well as I do,your not going to find many people driving on CS or even SS tires.Yes, almost all the rooms are no grip,no tire wear aides on rooms with people that couldn't tune a CS setup. What the series was built on,come on now your kidding right.Don't get all nostalgic on me,I might need a tissue. Yeah like people never hacked those previous series:rolleyes:
 
killerjimbag
That's funny Johnny,I would have no clue what stock street cars and no ABS rooms are about. I don't use racing tires on a street car, drag racing,yeah great timing system and track,cruising,really?,thanks I will do that in my real car or bike. NASCAR,yep, only with competent drivers.Actually good now that they fixed the slip stream/draft.
I have friends from all over the world,not hard for me to find a room at all. You know as well as I do,your not going to find many people driving on CS or even SS tires.Yes, almost all the rooms are no grip,no tire wear aides on rooms with people that couldn't tune a CS setup. What the series was built on,come on now your kidding right.Don't get all nostalgic on me,I might need a tissue. Yeah like people never hacked those previous series:rolleyes:
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All previous versions of the game were hacked as far as I know, which I continually point out to no avail. I see no excuses for PD/Sony to not have figured out something that's as predictable as night and day. It shouldn't have taken 4.5 months for something to happen, and then when it happens, it's lame and won't work.

BrandonW77
I do too just about, with friends on my friends list, but it's a shadow of GT5's heyday and it seems most groups are lucky to get 5 or 6 cars on the grid anymore. With the pitstop bugs and constant connection problems, many groups have given up altogether. You can go to public rooms if you want to drive everything on racing soft tires, but I'll pass on that.
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Check out my new sig:lol:
 
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Johnnypenso
All previous versions of the game were hacked as far as I know, which I continually point out to no avail. I see no excuses for PD/Sony to not have figured out something that's as predictable as night and day. It shouldn't have taken 4.5 months for something to happen, and then when it happens, it's lame and won't work.
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Yes they were, I am well aware of the previous versions being hacked/modded. If Sony banned consoles,not only would it put a minor dent in the problem,but could you imagine if mommy/little sister went to go watch Netflix or play a game they bought and it doesn't work? Little Timmy would have some explaining to do.There are work around's , I get it. Not every kid or hacker is that smart.May sound extreme,but what do you want them to do?If they don't we have to live with it. Hurry up project cars.
 
I think that it would be better if the tyre compound was included in the PP system like in Forza. Maybe then people won't be tempted to put racing softs on 450pp ecoboxes. Again, alluding to the fact that GT6 isn't the most well designed game.
 
Johnnypenso
All previous versions of the game were hacked as far as I know, which I continually point out to no avail. I see no excuses for PD/Sony to not have figured out something that's as predictable as night and day. It shouldn't have taken 4.5 months for something to happen, and then when it happens, it's lame and won't work.
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PDI/Sony did take measures to prevent hybrids. Given enough time there is nothing that can not be hacked. Software companies know this and do take measures to delay it. How far and how much revenue do you think they should put into it? There comes a point when it starts to inhibit the normal use of the product.

It also did not take them 4.5 months to do something about it as hybriding in GT6 is a very recent thing. The first publicly shared tool was only made available on Feb 27. PD has pushed out one update since then and it was probably created and well into testing before they even aware the measures they took had been compromised. The current set of bans were done by measures that were in place at launch of the game.

There are more countermeasures to come.

And if you think I am just rambling on with speculation I suggest you google my username.

Marqus
I think that it would be better if the tyre compound was included in the PP system like in Forza. Maybe then people won't be tempted to put racing softs on 450pp ecoboxes. Again, alluding to the fact that GT6 isn't the most well designed game.
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This has always amazed me that they did not do this. They put the grip multiplier into the PP system but not the tyre compound. That and brakes, suspension, transmission, etc, But mostly the tyres.
 
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Marqus
I think that it would be better if the tyre compound was included in the PP system like in Forza. Maybe then people won't be tempted to put racing softs on 450pp ecoboxes.
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FarSideX
This has always amazed me that they did not do this. They put the grip multiplier into the PP system but not the tyre compound. That and brakes, suspension, transmission, etc, But mostly the tyres.
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In the beginning tires were part of the PP system in GT5. An early update changed this.
I prefer how it is now. Tires are a huge factor and separating the tires makes the cars more even which I think results in better races.
 
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FarSideX
PDI/Sony did take measures to prevent hybrids. Given enough time there is nothing that can not be hacked. Software companies know this and do take measures to delay it. How far and how much revenue do you think they should put into it? There comes a point when it starts to inhibit the normal use of the product.

It also did not take them 4.5 months to do something about it as hybriding in GT6 is a very recent thing. The first publicly shared tool was only made available on Feb 27. PD has pushed out one update since then and it was probably created and well into testing before they even aware the measures they took had been compromised. The current set of bans were done by measures that were in place at launch of the game.

There are more countermeasures to come.

And if you think I am just rambling on with speculation I suggest you google my username.
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So what measures to prevent hybriding did they incorporate into GT6. Source please.

How much revenue should they put into it? GT6 conservatively estimated sales would be north of $250 Million how much would you spend to protect that?

And it did take 4.5 months and here's why. The game was launched December 6, and it was known on day 1 the game would be hacked. If I were running the show, I'd have hired in the fall, a couple of well known hackers and said, "here's GT6, go nuts, tell us what you can do and show us how to prevent it".

And I'll ask this question again because I've never received an answer from anyone. Why can't it be built into the system that if you go online a "Spec Check" is done to determine if your car is within normal parameters before you enter the track? Why can't they do the same thing for TT's? Seems to me when I enter a Tuning Prohibited lobby I get an instantaneous spec check and it works every time. If I try to enter a TT with the wrong car, be it a single car TT or group of cars, I can't get in. If one parameter is changed I can't get onto the track.

Why can't this be built into the game permanently?
 
drivatar
In the beginning tires were part of the PP system in GT5. An early update changed this.
I prefer how it is now. Tires are a huge factor and separating the tires makes the cars more even which I think results in better races.
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...Which doesn't matter if most of the online community are using only one compound: Racing Softs.
 
UltimateLurker
You opinion is duly noted, but I think I quite know what this game is about.
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So do I. Start at the back of the pack and have 3 or 4 laps to force your way past the rolling chicanes AI. 👍

Edit: I'm not trying to argue or be a jerk. I'm just massively disappointed that this game has so much potential but is virtually useless with creating your own racing online.
 
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Johnnypenso
If I were running the show, I'd have hired in the fall, a couple of well known hackers and said, "here's GT6, go nuts, tell us what you can do and show us how to prevent it".
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Though I'm sure you're correct that more could be done about stopping save files being modified and as you're probably aware by now I'm no big fan of PD anymore, I do think it's fair to say that any measure would only be delaying the inevitable. Look at companies that have a very vested interest in keeping their systems secure and pump millions of revenue into security - they all get hacked (consoles, phones, etc).

I see nothing wrong with the 'Spec Check' solution though - I'd like an answer to this too.

Otherwise, what's the alternative? Have your save file on a cloud server and not hosted on your system? It would stop the hacking certainly, but I for one wouldn't be buying a title that required me to be on the internet to access my save file.
 
Johnnypenso
And it did take 4.5 months and here's why. The game was launched December 6, and it was known on day 1 the game would be hacked. If I were running the show, I'd have hired in the fall, a couple of well known hackers and said, "here's GT6, go nuts, tell us what you can do and show us how to prevent it".

And I'll ask this question again because I've never received an answer from anyone. Why can't it be built into the system that if you go online a "Spec Check" is done to determine if your car is within normal parameters before you enter the track? Why can't they do the same thing for TT's? Seems to me when I enter a Tuning Prohibited lobby I get an instantaneous spec check and it works every time. If I try to enter a TT with the wrong car, be it a single car TT or group of cars, I can't get in. If one parameter is changed I can't get onto the track.

Why can't this be built into the game permanently?
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You never did say why it took 4.5 months! But I have to agree with you on the Spec Check. Years ago when we were racing Papyrus' Nascar on line, they had a Spec Check that would not let you log onto the server if your copy of the game had been altered. It seems to me that PD could implement the same thing on their servers. How hard would that be?
 
Master__Shake_
Once the GT5 servers are shut down, those 12 year olds will find their way onto GT6 and start doing the same thing. If PD wanted to, they could've sent the reports to Sony and have those players console banned. Maybe it wouldn't have stopped all the hackers since they know how to change their console ID, but it would've slowed them down a bit and maybe some would've stopped. I can tolerate offline hacking for people to get their kicks, however they see fit, but it has no place in the online community. Hacking has the means to ruin all integrity of the racing community and it rests in the hands of people who haven't hit puberty.
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>implying that adults don't use hacked cars in GT5
>implying that adults don't hack/cheat on online games

(Reverse ageism doesn't work :rolleyes:)

PNuTButR
I received my notification in French even though I have my first language set as English and I'm in the UK. Anyone else get this?
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Me too, except that I have the Saudi flag on my PSN (I am Indonesian btw). :boggled:
 
ConRollins
You never did say why it took 4.5 months! But I have to agree with you on the Spec Check. Years ago when we were racing Papyrus' Nascar on line, they had a Spec Check that would not let you log onto the server if your copy of the game had been altered. It seems to me that PD could implement the same thing on their servers. How hard would that be?
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Damn I miss that game!Yes your correct. Ask the guys at Iracing.
 
Johnnypenso
Can someone please tell me why PD/Sony can't just have a checking system in place every time you go online or maybe enter a TT, that compares the known parameters of a particular car against the parameters currently on your version of the car? Isn't this how they did it in GT5 with the patches that reset the cars back to "normal"? Isn't it referred to as a "checksumm"?
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Why don't they just do the check on your game save when you start the game? That would probably be a better solution, right? If there's an illegal car in the save, online is disabled.
 
Johnnypenso
So what measures to prevent hybriding did they incorporate into GT6. Source please.
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I highly recommend you google my username before you continue to read this. From that you can determine the source and whether I am qualified to answer that question. If after that you truly want specific answers to what they did I can supply that.

Johnnypenso
How much revenue should they put into it? GT6 conservatively estimated sales would be north of $250 Million how much would you spend to protect that?
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Personally I probably would have spent less than they did, or at least spent it elsewhere.

Johnnypenso
And it did take 4.5 months and here's why. The game was launched December 6, and it was known on day 1 the game would be hacked. If I were running the show, I'd have hired in the fall, a couple of well known hackers and said, "here's GT6, go nuts, tell us what you can do and show us how to prevent it".
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As I already stated they did enough already for launch, probably more than any other game out there. Far more than much higher grossing games.

Johnnypenso
And I'll ask this question again because I've never received an answer from anyone. Why can't it be built into the system that if you go online a "Spec Check" is done to determine if your car is within normal parameters before you enter the track? Why can't they do the same thing for TT's? Seems to me when I enter a Tuning Prohibited lobby I get an instantaneous spec check and it works every time. If I try to enter a TT with the wrong car, be it a single car TT or group of cars, I can't get in. If one parameter is changed I can't get onto the track.

Why can't this be built into the game permanently?
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It is not that it "can't" it is more what is the cost (not money cost) of doing so. For one there is the issue of game flexibility. In one-make car races the cars are chosen from a separate data table (as I mentioned in a previous post) so that is easy, you and everyone else get the car specs from the same place.

Doing this all the time would remove all possibility of tuning your cars. As of the 1.06 update there are 1339 cars in the game, each with its own set of variables. With the current editor the are ~484^16= 9.068E42 (9 with 42 zeros) combinations with just the variables it touches, there are much more that it does not touch. That's a much bigger number than can be calculated using 64 bits. If you could have a computer do 3 billion tests per second it would take 3.00e35 (3 with 35 zeros) years to test them all. Of course most of these are invalid combinations, but as you can see even then there would be a huge set to deal with.

They also have the PP system, but they screwed that up by making it a signed int16 so negative PP numbers are possible negating that limitation to lobbies. And getting over 32767 PP is easy, then it becomes negative allowing entrance to any PP limited lobby.

They reduce the load of testing by other means. Right now we see PP, HP, drivetrain, etc. tests and for the most part they keep the lobby fair. Unlimited lobbies are just that, unlimited. They can add tests for common hybrid tricks now that there are hybrids.

With Tuning Prohibited it's easy, the car has a flag that is set if it is modified, the game only needs to check 1 bit to validate the car.

Also note these tests are done remotely, on their server for on line lobbies, for every on line car. Adding more tests puts more strain on the servers too. Moving the checks to the client makes it easy to bypass the tests.

My math is probably wrong but it is only to demonstrate the scope of the issue. Go ahead and correct it if you like.

I hope this helps explains some of the issues PD must contend with and answers your question.

Someone mentioned solutions concerning game save files. As it stands there are no hacks that work directly with the save file. I suspect we will see them soon enough. The current hacks would work even if the saves were cloud based only.

tl;dr;lii
 
FarSideX
Doing this all the time would remove all possibility of tuning your cars. As of the 1.06 update there are 1339 cars in the game, each with its own set of variables. With the current editor the are ~484^16= 9.068E42 (9 with 42 zeros) combinations with just the variables it touches, there are much more that it does not touch. That's a much bigger number than can be calculated using 64 bits. If you could have a computer do 3 billion tests per second it would take 3.00e35 (3 with 35 zeros) years to test them all. Of course most of these are invalid combinations, but as you can see even then there would be a huge set to deal with.
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Very informative answer, I always wondered why this wasn't implemented, thanks 👍.
 
Johnnypenso
And I'll ask this question again because I've never received an answer from anyone. Why can't it be built into the system that if you go online a "Spec Check" is done to determine if your car is within normal parameters before you enter the track?
Click to expand...

GT needs some sort of scrutiny board tool for online racing.
 
tankuroded
>implying that adults don't use hacked cars in GT5
>implying that adults don't hack/cheat on online games

(Reverse ageism doesn't work :rolleyes:)
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I'm not implying that either of these aren't true. I'm implying that the "12 year olds from GT5" will be the ones that ruin GT6, when GT5 servers shut down next month. Read the entire paragraph instead of taking one sentence out of context.
 
BrandonW77
So do I. Start at the back of the pack and have 3 or 4 laps to force your way past the rolling chicanes AI. 👍

Edit: I'm not trying to argue or be a jerk. I'm just massively disappointed that this game has so much potential but is virtually useless with creating your own racing online.
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And I'm not disagreeing with you, I 100% agree in fact, but we have to work with what we got, or just not play the game. When I get frustrated with it, I just go take a drive in a real car :).
 
Johnnypenso
All previous versions of the game were hacked as far as I know, which I continually point out to no avail. I see no excuses for PD/Sony to not have figured out something that's as predictable as night and day. It shouldn't have taken 4.5 months for something to happen, and then when it happens, it's lame and won't work.



Check out my new sig:lol:
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In PD's defense, they have only mapped the night sky. The sun lit sky is still very much a mystery to them. They have assured me that thy are on the brink of officially announcing that day and night to in fact alternate. No official announcement yet but they told me it is coming soon.


UltimateLurker
You opinion is duly noted, but I think I quite know what racing is, and what this game is about.
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It's about getting a group of 6-12 cars and cruising down a predetermined path. Sort of like getting your local car club and cruising to a car meet except there's no burgers and hot dogs waiting for you at your destination.
 
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UltimateLurker
And I'm not disagreeing with you, I 100% agree in fact, but we have to work with what we got, or just not play the game. When I get frustrated with it, I just go take a drive in a real car :).
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That had always been my attitude about it too, and despite the problems I still played GT5 almost everyday for three years and have played GT6 most days since launch. But all the problems with GT6 have made it a bit difficult to see any positives or get much enjoyment from the game. And seeing as it's nearly impossible to get anyone to show up for online races anymore, well there just aren't many reasons to turn the game on anymore.
 

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