PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[JudegeBerry]

Enjoyed that video of the crash ; looked up OP record on KudosPrime so obviously they are fast and generally stay out of trouble - but on this occasion the second crash was absolutely down to them.

Reading this thread gives me the urge to go racing at my own sedate speed later on.

 

[KosmoKazi]

This is the thing imo to race best people need to understand CLEAR corner rights.
Every series has slightly different takes but the concept in general for CLEAR VALID RIGHT to an apex is pretty clear, and that means established far before turn in!
If I’m iffy personally I stay back. The bumper cam clip showed a late dive to a collision.
That’s got nothing to do with the drivers ahead that’s just hyper aggressive.
Deserved penalty imo.

That's ridiculous. I'm only 'beside him' because he went so wide and slowed on the outside on the entry (EDITED to add: he slowed to 23 MPH... EVERY driver on this board moves inside of him when he started that wide, and slowed to that crawl before coming back down on me), then the SLS slowed so much that I had to avoid hitting him (watch closely) all while I was fully in control of my car and while I was avoiding contact with the SLS. (EDITED to add: I also had the responsibility to stay inside, as there was a car to my outside... so I other than coming to a GD stop before the apex, I could not have reasonably done anything differently).

You can't say what you say above then jump in with that point, and still seem genuine about the earlier post. What you say here is totally ignorant.

By the way, notice that I would be getting run over by the same two green offenders from behind, had I done differently on the T2.

And notice that I give the NSX plenty of room to get off T2 after we touched, as to avoid any gain, in order to keep it all completely sporting. It was only because he got run over from behind by the Mustang and/or the green Porsche or Toyota that the whole thing came apart.

How about you apply your critical thinking to those guys, instead of piling on.

 

[Groundfish]

That's ridiculous

No it’s racing etiquette. Rules in most series define it as such.
Tell that to SCCA FIA etc.
Man, chill, I’m here to help

Edit just saying there’s objective unarguable car positions under braking and corner entry that define corner rights for that corner.
I’m not talking grey area type incidents.
I’m just saying if a player is unaware what those are then it’s worth looking into.

 

[Fennario]

That's ridiculous. I'm only 'beside him' because he went so wide and slowed on the outside on the entry, then the SLS slowed so much that I had to avoid hitting him (watch closely) all while I was fully in control of my car and while I was avoiding contact with the SLS.

You can't say what you say above then jump in with that point, and still seem genuine about the earlier post. What you say here is totally ignorant.

By the way, notice that I would be getting run over by the same two green offenders from behind, had I done differently on the T2.

And notice that I give the NSX plenty of room to get off T2 after we touched, as to avoid any gain, in order to keep it all completely sporting. It was only because he got run over from behind by the Mustang and/or the green Porsche or Toyota that the whole thing came apart.

How about you apply your critical thinking to those guys, instead of piling on.

(i) you did not establish position prior to corner entry, made at-fault contact, and did not promptly give back the position;
(ii) By not giving back the position you put a target on your back for all of the other drivers who saw you bomb T2;
(iii) if you had remained in line and gotten punted by the two green offenders then it would have been their fault/penalty;
(iv) if you had remained in line you would have gotten a good corner exit and possibly have had the speed to avoid the punt and/or overtake on the straight;
(v) we are not trying to help the other guys become better drivers and more successful at this game.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

The other thing to consider is that even if they are in the wrong and you're in the right you're also parked in the fence. Last week was a bit of an education for me going for the clean race bonuses, it's possible to fight hard for positions but simultaneously minimise the risk of contact and penalties to yourself by being aware of where other cars are and where they're likely to go.

 

[KosmoKazi]

(i) you did not establish position prior to corner entry, made at-fault contact, and did not promptly give back the position;
(ii) By not giving back the position you put a target on your back for all of the other drivers who saw you bomb T2;
(iii) if you had remained in line and gotten punted by the two green offenders then it would have been their fault/penalty;
(iv) if you had remained in line you would have gotten a good corner exit and possibly have had the speed to avoid the punt and/or overtake on the straight;
(v) we are not trying to help the other guys become better drivers and more successful at this game.

What are you even looking at? You are just gaslighting.

If I had remained in line, behind the NSX, I would have been held up by his really slow corner, where he slowed to 23 mph before turning down on me, then held up on exit while the two green cars behind conspired to that disaster. Give me a break. Nothing you say above applies to what happened in T2 or after.

 

[Soundmangt4]

What are you even looking at? You are just gaslighting.

If I had remained in line, behind the NSX, I would have been held up by his really slow corner, where he slowed to 23 mph before turning down on me, then held up on exit while the two green cars behind conspired to that disaster. Give me a break. Nothing you say above applies to what happened in T2 or after.

Right, can we just put this to bed and move on. You're the only person on here who thinks you're blameless, and you don't seem to want to listen to our impartial perspectives (actually, we are slightly biased in your favour if anything), so we will just go round and round.

Let's all agree to disagree and move on. We all know you're not a dirty racer, and I'd be happy to race with you as I'm sure everyone else would too, so let's step away from the replays and screen grabs and kiss and make up!

 

[killerjimbag]

PS Store has some real good sims on sale right now. Perhaps pick up a few and put this to bed. Why do people continue to play this a bitch about it is beyond me?

 

[Famine]

Not sure what else needs to be said.

 

[Groundfish]

 

[Sven Jurgens]

PS Store has some real good sims on sale right now. Perhaps pick up a few and put this to bed. Why do people continue to play this a bitch about it is beyond me?

Know any other sims where you can find a full room to race at 8 AM at set time intervals? I never venture into lobbies because I hate waiting for the race to start and then only 4 people actually racing. The draw from GTS is, races start at :03 :13 :23 :33 :43 :53 any hour of the day and seldom a room with less than 10 people.

Let's face it, bitching about AI doing stupid things is even more pointless

I bought Flight Simulator today, CAD 160!!! Worth it, been waiting for it for over 12 years. So yep, moving on to another sim soon (Ehh I'll be back)

 

[ZiggyS80]

I never venture into lobbies because I hate waiting for the race to start and then only 4 people actually racing. The draw from GTS is, races start at :03 :13 :23 :33 :43 :53 any hour of the day and seldom a room with less than 10 people.

True story. I enjoy the FIA races, but the commitment can be hard to maintain. Nothing better than hooking up with randos in the dailies whenever you want to have a go. Sometimes it gets dirty, but when it’s good...

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Let's face it, the only reason a thread like this survive for this long is because the good of the game makes up for the bad. We are here because we love the game, even if the penalty system is a piece of ****

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@RacingGrandpa Hear hear, bring on the Monza DR resets next week

(flight sim doesn't unlock untill the 18th wah)

 

[Tea_Leaves]

A general observation I've often seen and at /r/granturismo and why I (as I'm sure others) don't comment on them anymore is whenever an OP posts an incident video, they immediately take on a defensive mentality and reject every view or opinion that doesn't match their own.

If I'm going to post a video of a racing incident on a discussion forum, I expect criticism. If everyone agrees I was right and nothing else could be done, what is there to learn from it. Particularly with a racing incident, there are a multitude of ways it could had played out differently with a more favourable outcome for all involved. Nobody is a perfect driver and I think it's best to embrace different views and perspectives, there's usually always something to learn, keep in mind and apply to future races.

I've no intention on resurrecting this discussion.

 

[djidane57]

ok now this is over the board those SR loss , just experienced one SR down , only one during the whole race B and i lost a whopping 12 SR POINTS for that single SR DOWN and nothing else !!!!

 

[meekrab]

A general observation I've often seen and at /r/granturismo and why I (as I'm sure others) don't comment on them anymore is whenever an OP posts an incident video, they immediately take on a defensive mentality and reject every view or opinion that doesn't match their own.

If I'm going to post a video of a racing incident on a discussion forum, I expect criticism. If everyone agrees I was right and nothing else could be done, what is there to learn from it. Particularly with a racing incident, there are a multitude of ways it could had played out differently with a more favourable outcome for all involved. Nobody is a perfect driver and I think it's best to embrace different views and perspectives, there's usually always something to learn, keep in mind and apply to future races.

I've no intention on resurrecting this discussion.

I would go so far as to recommend people post videos with the name displays turned off.

 

[Redneckchef]

I would go so far as to recommend people post videos with the name displays turned off.

I used to do this, but I gave up as I just want to either show what happened and ask advice, or just show a wildly wrong penalty. I often mention I screwed up, but some people cant swallow the pride to admit that.

1 driver I raced the last couple of nights at Fuji is a right W anchor, and manipulates their moves to defend savagely by pushing people off track and giving them penalties by making contact at the right time. I caught them with 3 laps to go, them on 5 lap old hards, me on 3 lap Mediums. They took a defensive line into turn 1 so I followed, they brake checked me on the run to the fast left so I gave up and dropped slightly back. Followed in line u til the chicane as if I wasn't going to do anything g and simply made a savage late dive. They turned in but only tapped me as I was past as I was that much faster. Didnt see them after that and finished 5 seconds ahead. Despite the 3 or 4 cars they ruined races on that driver tried to call me dirty afterwards.

I admit that the move was a bit nasty, but they saw absolutely no problem with them wrecking others, brake checking or manipulating the penalty system to ruin others. I felt my move was the only real defense I had to counter their tactics. Admit you might have screwed up and you can improve.

And the current state of the penalty system encourages more of their sort of driving as well.


Incidentally I was behind them when they punted someone off at the chicane and then pushed someone off at the last left up the hill on lap 1. That second victim simply blasted them to Mars at the last corner. Karma for the win.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Can anybody explain this one. Back to back laps, on lap 3 I get a 1s penalty for being touched from behind, on lap 4 I get a 1s penalty for a similar impact to the car ahead:



-18 SR for the two.

 

[djidane57]

Can anybody explain this one. Back to back laps, on lap 3 I get a 1s penalty for being touched from behind, on lap 4 I get a 1s penalty for a similar impact to the car ahead:



-18 SR for the two.

most likely a higher DR rank , then everything's your fault :/

 

[Redneckchef]

most likely a higher DR rank , then everything's your fault :/

I am backing this theory. That was how I got reset earlier. Bunch of phantom contacts with a player 20K DR less than me at the time. Every single contact was SR down for me

 

[O604]

I am backing this theory. That was how I got reset earlier. Bunch of phantom contacts with a player 20K DR less than me at the time. Every single contact was SR down for me

Most likely with an alt-account. Like the ones you see on leader boards with DR E. I'd call it an unfortunate consequence of allowing multiple accounts.

Multiple accounts should be linked to avoid this. My guess is most 1st accounts have the highest Level. 2nd, 3rd accounts less likely to do the Campaign, Missions, etc again, so would register at a lower Level.

Link the main account to the alt accounts. Get more accurate matchmaking.

 

[Natalie_GT]

DR E is always a pretty big red flag. It's an alt where the person is either doing a last-to-first challenge, which, you know, it's fine as long as they're clean and respect other drivers, or to cause as much chaos as possible and get people down to SR E and getting them DR resets.

Which. You know..
That's not okay.

I always stay the heck away from an E-rated person unless I know it's an alt of someone I trust.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Can anybody explain this one. Back to back laps, on lap 3 I get a 1s penalty for being touched from behind, on lap 4 I get a 1s penalty for a similar impact to the car ahead:



-18 SR for the two.

most likely a higher DR rank , then everything's your fault :/

I am backing this theory. That was how I got reset earlier. Bunch of phantom contacts with a player 20K DR less than me at the time. Every single contact was SR down for me

Yep, GotMaxPower is DR A+ (72K), the car that bumped him and then later got bumped by max is DR A (34K)
Thou shalt not make contact with those still learning the game

 

[Redneckchef]

Most likely with an alt-account. Like the ones you see on leader boards with DR E. I'd call it an unfortunate consequence of allowing multiple accounts.

Multiple accounts should be linked to avoid this. My guess is most 1st accounts have the highest Level. 2nd, 3rd accounts less likely to do the Campaign, Missions, etc again, so would register at a lower Level.

Link the main account to the alt accounts. Get more accurate matchmaking.

Nah, this wasn't an alter anything. Solid B driver who was relatively quick, hence the fast qually, but wasn't consistent. My DR was massively inflated at that point. Normally would only have been a couple of thousand higher, checked their kudos and their DR was in a slump.

But that kind of DR difference shouldn't determine who is at fault. It is a total BS way of judging penalties. From that perspective Hamilton is at fault in every F1 collision that he is involved with, even if another driver plows into him. That idea would never fly in F1, so why are they attempting it here?

And yes, Hamilton has been at fault in his last few collisions, either totally or mostly, not debating that. Just whether he should automatically be labelled at fault because of his season points total.

 

[Natalie_GT]

Nah, this wasn't an alter anything. Solid B driver who was relatively quick, hence the fast qually, but wasn't consistent. My DR was massively inflated at that point. Normally would only have been a couple of thousand higher, checked their kudos and their DR was in a slump.

But that kind of DR difference shouldn't determine who is at fault. It is a total BS way of judging penalties. From that perspective Hamilton is at fault in every F1 collision that he is involved with, even if another driver plows into him. That idea would never fly in F1, so why are they attempting it here?

And yes, Hamilton has been at fault in his last few collisions, either totally or mostly, not debating that. Just whether he should automatically be labelled at fault because of his season points total.

Yeah, by design it's stupid and flawed.
The only way to fix things right now, is going from the roots. Rip it out and start anew instead of putting constant band-aids over it that only make things worse.

Imagine how much better the game would be if:
-collision fault was shared between drivers, giving an SR down and a penalty to both / contact point system,
-SR did not have an effect on DR, letting you technically be for example an A-D driver, but matching you against other A-D drivers,
-SR was not 99 points but rather on the same scale as DR, making you work for it and not penalizing you as much for stupid simple bumps,
-track limit penalties being correctly enforced across tracks (if I can eat all of the kerb in Maggiore, Nurb GP or Dragon Trail, why can't I do the same in Le Mans?),
-penalties being reworked and not giving you a chance to serve it mid-race, only adding it to your final race time.

Etcétera. Bunch of stuff that to implement, PD have to rip the system apart and start new. Unlikely they will.

 

[JudegeBerry]

Shared fault would be simpler. I can see why they want to train a system to spot who is at fault but people will forever game anything complicated. As fast as their system comes up with a new algorithm for apportioning blame the gamers (all of us!) will game that system.

Only apply a SR penalty is someone goes off the track or runs a slower sector due to contact. They could break up the sectors into smaller sections and keep those timings for themselves.

As above keep SR and DR as 2 separate things for match making.

I agree with the earlier posts about alt accounts. It is frustrating to be in a race against people who are deliberately racing against much slower drivers using their alt account. I want the match making system to put me in a field of closely matched drivers. Also when I race on my account I know that if I lose SR that will have consequences beyond the current race - that will not be the case for people using alt accounts.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Also when I race on my account I know that if I lose SR that will have consequences beyond the current race - that will not be the case for people using alt accounts.

It certainly has consequences for me on my alt account. That account is just as governed by the ups and downs of SR and DR as you are. Why would it be any different for an alt account? Sure, if you don't use it for FIA it won't have as severe consequences but that's just like another main account that doesn't run FIA.

 

[watto79]

From yesterdays Nations race. Being bump drafted is a crime.



I still see plenty of bumps go unpunished, and very gently brushes result in penalties. I'd actually prefer it it EVERY contact resulted in a penalty, rather than having that nervous wait after a bit of incidental contact to see if a penalty is given (and to see who gets it). There's just no consistency.

 

[JudegeBerry]

It certainly has consequences for me on my alt account. That account is just as governed by the ups and downs of SR and DR as you are. Why would it be any different for an alt account? Sure, if you don't use it for FIA it won't have as severe consequences but that's just like another main account that doesn't run FIA.

Fair point - sounds like you keep your alt account.

My issue is with people creating an alt account in order to race against lower ranked drivers. Even I could choose to start a new account each week and race against low D DR drivers in order to get some wins - but what is the point?

Perhaps each win could be given some in game prize money that was based from the result and the caliber of opposition for the race.