PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Kermit_2142]

I've been doing 1 or 2 races a day for a while now. I used to race more. Now I think I'm done doing the 1 race.

Not the worst penalty but the final straw. I am not angry. Just very disappointed. The game in the current state is a waste of my time. The only thing I learn is to avoid playing.



Thank you PS for giving us Fall Guys this month. At least I have something to play.

In all fairness you did rear end him, even though by accident it could’ve been avoided if you broke a tad earlier than normal. Harsh but justified penalty in my opinion. You can’t expect to run that close to people, especially sport mode when your racing against unknown drivers, and expect to be driving at your normal brake markers. 10% worth of caution goes a long way, especially in these lmp1 cars and more so in that tricky section of circuit.
I wouldn’t be put off by that penalty, I enjoy racing with you and I’m sure most people on sport mode do too, just give those unknowns extra space as you would do in a real life situation and enjoy the racing

 

[Sven Jurgens]

There's obviously something wrong when I drive exactly the same this week as last week (not qualifying, not holding back) and this is the difference

@Groundfish Side contact is not penalized, hence you don't have any trouble driving door to door. However you don't know what your car is doing to the other car on their screen. With #sharedfault any contact should be penalized, keep apart, all rubbing has (exaggerated) effect with latency involved. It has nothing to do with the server, the server is just a router.

A lot of front back contact is also the result of lag, which is more pronounced the further the players live apart. Canada to Brazil is over 7,000 km. Even the highest quality direct straight fiber cable connection still takes 29 ms to send data one way, that's the physical limit. Of course there is no such thing. You're already at 8 to 16 ms to the nearest server then a ton of hops twists and turns with added jitter before it gets to the other client. The avg latency from Brazil to Toronto is 186 ms, and that's server to server, add client to server on both sides on top of that.

It's a small miracle and huge props to PD that it (mostly) appears smooth while racing. However it does not support door to door / bumper to bumper racing on the Americas server without someone getting shunted sooner rather than later or nonsense SR Downs popping up.

GR.1 is actually better to avoid lag front back contacts since you tend to drive less close behind cars due to dirty air having a much bigger impact. With GR.3 last week cars were much closer together and any tiny lag wobble with mostly harmless contact resulted in -10 SR per contact. Hence my most fun race last week with a Brazilian, swapping places 5+ times, all clean resulted in both of us getting send to SR.C. Lag :/

 

[Groundfish]

Maybe we have a different experience due to differences in physical location/internet.
31 races four and five cars bumper to bumper swapping positions close quarters in five or six. No one getting sr downs same players in lobby no red s.
I guess I just experience the game the way I do.
Others view and experience it differently.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

One thing I think results in a negative player experience is fear of a DR reset. The looming possibility that a large chunk of progression can be undone in a one-off sprint race is dumb and could make someone not want to race at all.

Resets shouldn't exist and with DR discrimination affecting penalty decisions, it makes less sense. A driver could not truthfully be a DR D after reset from DR B yesterday but the system now considers them as one so ghosting and penalty decisions are applied to their driving. Not only that, it turns a driver into a sandbag by placing them against opponents who don't match their true skill level. All of this seems wrong.

I'm SR99 for a long time but does that mean anything? Nope and I don't understand why a level of grace isn't there for a longterm player. Now I'm SR B and close to dropping below the threshold so I can't 'race' (drive as a lapped ghost) since the risk is too high to be inflicted with more penalties.

The other day I checked my qualifying time on KP and decided to open profiles at random. 5 of 10 profiles I checked had recent DR resets. Maybe this was by chance but that's crazy to me and probably happening more often than we think.

 

[djidane57]

I have 31 races worth of replays from Seaside that have examples contradicting every myth that’s been shown.

please show us mere mortals
We have 170 pages of complaints , yet you keep defending that dumpster fire of a penalty system , i mean you are paid by polyphony or something?

 

[Groundfish]

please show us mere mortals
We have 170 pages of complaints , yet you keep defending that dumpster fire of a penalty system , i mean you are paid by polyphony or something?

I’m not saying mere mortals. I’m not alien, nor will I ever be. I’m not interested in posting videos. It’s far too addicting for me to handle.
I edited at first by doing in game recordings of the interesting parts of the track. I ended up after putting into that share video thing with 3 videos 15 minutes each. So then I went back trying to trim down, only the most epic clips making the cut and got down to two seven minute videos and one of the 2 laps of Viper battling.
I’ve watched it a bunch and edited in different order too. I’ve spent more hours on that than I’d care to admit for example one clip is 2 TT battling coming down the hill lead TT is hugging inside track edge, the TT behind follows then baby punts the leader who ends up in the wall, but the punter who was now the leaders line was compromised and me now second took the racing line followed by the rest of the field closely, first lap. We go through the chicane down to the last turn he goes defensive and I baby punt him deep take the inside, he comes around to the exit curb but I let my Ferrari run out and forced him to the grass where he fell to fifth...
One where the 13th at time on leader board binned the chicane lap one and I took first...SOOO many clips.
Then I started looking at older clips from other races...
Waaaay too addicting to mess with video.
I’d end up doing it constantly. Dishes not clean cupboards bare laundry undone strung out like a research monkey.
Either you accept my words or not but it doesn’t matter to me anymore. There’s so many better players faster streaming and such to watch.
I’m not going to post publicly only to get hassled.
I’m simply expressing what my direct experience in game is.
Others experiences seem to differ.

This pen system is the best it’s been ever right now imo.
It’s not about how you feel about it imo it’s about FairPlay.
No.
I don’t work for PD. It’s simply my experience being related in this forum.
I was pissed at all the petulant whining about penalties when the game released and watched PD compromise their principles in the name of larger player base over sticking to their “Motorsport is no contact” guns and played through the ongoing debacle over the last 18 months as play became dirtier.
It just pains me now and I worry that the game will go more lenient again.
I will still play either way it’s just more fun and fair imo when contact is not tolerated as much.
No system at all worked well too in the races I entered, but that’s not going to work for most players imo.

FairPlay

Edit is a zero tolerance for contact in online a 1-1 relationship to real racing? Absolutely not.
Is it by far the best solution so the most players can have the most fun online?
Of course.

Final edit re dr resets. Racing in the real world involves risk. I wish it wasn’t so easy to have multiple accounts in game.
Anyways you are putting your dr up for grabs when you race which I think is good.
It’s an in game risk.
With a good system like now initiating an overtake is a risk.
If there’s no dr reset no sr risk is it meaningful in any way?
Part of the fun of it involves risk imo.
The matching is WACK tho imo. Don’t race A vs D. A vs B ok imo.

Cheers guys and good luck to you all

 

[Petroperu]

I've been doing 1 or 2 races a day for a while now. I used to race more. Now I think I'm done doing the 1 race.

Not the worst penalty but the final straw. I am not angry. Just very disappointed. The game in the current state is a waste of my time. The only thing I learn is to avoid playing.



Thank you PS for giving us Fall Guys this month. At least I have something to play.

Sport Mode is trash.
It's not that my rating is flat D but rather with the current system, I will never be able to get out of there since I don't like to ram people.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Maybe we have a different experience due to differences in physical location/internet.
31 races four and five cars bumper to bumper swapping positions close quarters in five or six. No one getting sr downs same players in lobby no red s.
I guess I just experience the game the way I do.
Others view and experience it differently.

One thing I did notice when dropping down the SR ladder was that the further down the more yellow and worse connections. The current system is definitely disproportionately penalizing those that live further away from the server. It's not so much a sportmanship rating anymore, more a measure of distance to the server. In SR.S there are mostly green connections, in SR.C green connections are very rare.

So yep, SR.S is safer now since anyone with less than optimal latency gets booted out Maybe I should just make a Europe account, less latency to Europe than to South America from Ontario...

 

[Petroperu]

There's obviously something wrong when I drive exactly the same this week as last week (not qualifying, not holding back) and this is the difference

@Groundfish Side contact is not penalized, hence you don't have any trouble driving door to door. However you don't know what your car is doing to the other car on their screen. With #sharedfault any contact should be penalized, keep apart, all rubbing has (exaggerated) effect with latency involved. It has nothing to do with the server, the server is just a router.

A lot of front back contact is also the result of lag, which is more pronounced the further the players live apart. Canada to Brazil is over 7,000 km. Even the highest quality direct straight fiber cable connection still takes 29 ms to send data one way, that's the physical limit. Of course there is no such thing. You're already at 8 to 16 ms to the nearest server then a ton of hops twists and turns with added jitter before it gets to the other client. The avg latency from Brazil to Toronto is 186 ms, and that's server to server, add client to server on both sides on top of that.

It's a small miracle and huge props to PD that it (mostly) appears smooth while racing. However it does not support door to door / bumper to bumper racing on the Americas server without someone getting shunted sooner rather than later or nonsense SR Downs popping up.

GR.1 is actually better to avoid lag front back contacts since you tend to drive less close behind cars due to dirty air having a much bigger impact. With GR.3 last week cars were much closer together and any tiny lag wobble with mostly harmless contact resulted in -10 SR per contact. Hence my most fun race last week with a Brazilian, swapping places 5+ times, all clean resulted in both of us getting send to SR.C. Lag :/

Very interesting. I have been bashing certain people from certain Southamerican country but turns out they could also be trying to avoid me or the others.
Polyphony Digital should limit Sport Mode to regions only, even more with the iffy penalties.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

So much for penalizing the erratic driver...

And here the effect of racing with lag, or maybe he was just dirty

That was an A+ driver who was already jumping forward at every braking point hence I took the corner wide, braking later not to get bumped, yet lag still got me. Maybe he did it on purpose dunno, he got called out by someone else afterwards and left to SR.C.

In the first example perhaps it was also due to lag. Another 3 bar connection which would have my car projected further to his car, so maybe my car caused his wobble at corner exit. (he screwed up the previous two corners as well though without me being anywhere near him, must have been distracted by something since he stayed 2 sec ahead for the previous 4 laps)

@Petroperu Splitting the region didn't work out very well. Rooms were mostly empty outside prime time without the South Americans and lag was still there, either from alt accounts or USA's bad internet It was still better for SR with only half filled rooms

 

[JudegeBerry]

please show us mere mortals
We have 170 pages of complaints , yet you keep defending that dumpster fire of a penalty system , i mean you are paid by polyphony or something?

It is not a dumpster fire and there are not 170 pages of complaints. There is an ongoing discussion around what could make it better.

If the system has become harsher of late - good because I would rather people (including me) struggle to attain S rating SR than just need a couple of races to raise SR.

There was a point of time a few weeks ago when it seemed to me like the punting penalties were being applied the wrong way around - but now (to me) it seems better again.

Having said all that #sharedfault!

 

[yas]

Sport Mode is trash.
It's not that my rating is flat D but rather with the current system, I will never be able to get out of there since I don't like to ram people.

It relates to D also. Note I had not played for a few months and jumping in had some rusty races. D seems to stand for Destruction Derby.
I did not know that draft bumping gives a 1 second penalty to the front driver.
I did not know that when door to door if you don't turn the wheel in a corner and run the poor man on the outside, outside of the track, he will get a 4 second penalty. Some bloke touched the SukiSuki green thing, started spinning around, hit me with the rear and got me a 4 second penalty.

Basically the quick lesson - the cars are lava, try not to spin. I managed to get out of C - drivers are not faster there but much less toxic.

So my quick opinion - I remember the penalty system working better at launch than what it is now.

 

[Petroperu]

Right now it is a mess.
Keeps getting worse and worse.
I am focusing on PC2 instead.

 

[Scuba1958]

I'll admit up front that I'm here to rant. It is a medically required rant needed to get my blood pressure down to a less than fatal level.

This penalty system is completely whacked. Regardless of what some PD apologists claim, it is not "the best it’s been ever right now imo."

While running race A this morning the following occurred: I'm following a car down the main straight at the beginnig of lap two. He has a 2 second penalty hanging over his head that will be served on the straight after turn 1. I make a better run through turn 1 and we are even after climbing the hill. I am on the far left side of the track and he is on the far right - the track is very wide at this point. Apparently this knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing cretin does not want me disappearing into the distance when he serves his penalty in a hundred yards. He makes a hard left and buries the nose of his car into my passenger door. I'm driven off into the grass, maintain control and ease back onto the track. He serves his penalty and becomes a tiny speck in my mirror. I RECEIVE A TWO SECOND PENALTY FOR HITTING ANOTHER CAR!!

On planet Groundfish this may be just fine and dandy, but in the real world things like this are just plain wrong - AND THEY HAPPEN ALL THE TIME!

Two weeks ago I had a reset resulting from a gang rape by a bunch of machismo douche bags from that continent to my south. Sorry, but sometimes a bad reputation is well deserved. Twice this week I have been intentionally clobbered by Brazilians ON THE WARM-UP LAP! Since then I have been racing with a total focus on avoiding contact at all costs. I've managed to to get my DR back up to about 25,000, but my SR is stuck in the 45 - 65 range. When the slightest contact results in a 15 point SR down, but a clean race gets you only 3 points it's. hard to gain ground.

Okay. I feel better now.

 

[Petroperu]

Penalty system is absolutely terrible right now.
Did a race at Alsace and in the beginning I got nudged to the side of the track by some dirty driver.
He didn't get any points.
However I managed to regain my position by the second lap.
The same dirty driver was still trying to make me spin but he was so bad at it that he managed to get himself into the grass.
My issue is that dirty drivers are not being penalized.
If you Polyphony Digital guys are reading this, your fabled online mode; Sport Mode is a JOKE.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

It didn't really occur to me so much from someone who races on Europe (opponents often have green bars) but lag is a big deal for sure. I was behind someone with 2 bars at Casio Triangle and on my screen, he appeared further in front alas he wasn't and next thing I hear a quiet tap, brush contact made and SR Down. Surely the car with full bars would take precedence here and given benefit of the doubt but it seems to be the other way around. This sounds backwards.

From what I hear about the Americas servers, the problem is magnified so not only do you have to take care not making contact, you've also got to make a guess how far in front a lagging car is.

The harsh SR Down reductions would make sense if the system was perfect and we were racing with zero lag/latency but well, we're not. So -12 SR for that race and since it's a short one with little SR gain, red SR overall.

 

[Petroperu]

It didn't really occur to me so much from someone who races on Europe (opponents often have green bars) but lag is a big deal for sure. I was behind someone with 2 bars at Casio Triangle and on my screen, he appeared further in front alas he wasn't and next thing I hear a quiet tap, brush contact made and SR Down. Surely the car with full bars would take precedence here and given benefit of the doubt but it seems to be the other way around. This sounds backwards.

From what I hear about the Americas servers, the problem is magnified so not only do you have to take care not making contact, you've also got to make a guess how far in front a lagging car is.

The harsh SR Down reductions would make sense if the system was perfect and we were racing with zero lag/latency but well, we're not. So -12 SR for that race and since it's a short one with little SR gain, red SR overall.

I've noticed that there are more people from the Americas playing now.
Which is a good nothing, because the game is well known but bad because of the lag.

 

[Mixolydian]

I’m not saying mere mortals. I’m not alien, nor will I ever be. I’m not interested in posting videos. It’s far too addicting for me to handle.
I edited at first by doing in game recordings of the interesting parts of the track. I ended up after putting into that share video thing with 3 videos 15 minutes each. So then I went back trying to trim down, only the most epic clips making the cut and got down to two seven minute videos and one of the 2 laps of Viper battling.
I’ve watched it a bunch and edited in different order too. I’ve spent more hours on that than I’d care to admit for example one clip is 2 TT battling coming down the hill lead TT is hugging inside track edge, the TT behind follows then baby punts the leader who ends up in the wall, but the punter who was now the leaders line was compromised and me now second took the racing line followed by the rest of the field closely, first lap. We go through the chicane down to the last turn he goes defensive and I baby punt him deep take the inside, he comes around to the exit curb but I let my Ferrari run out and forced him to the grass where he fell to fifth...
One where the 13th at time on leader board binned the chicane lap one and I took first...SOOO many clips.
Then I started looking at older clips from other races...
Waaaay too addicting to mess with video.
I’d end up doing it constantly. Dishes not clean cupboards bare laundry undone strung out like a research monkey.
Either you accept my words or not but it doesn’t matter to me anymore. There’s so many better players faster streaming and such to watch.
I’m not going to post publicly only to get hassled.
I’m simply expressing what my direct experience in game is.
Others experiences seem to differ.

This pen system is the best it’s been ever right now imo.
It’s not about how you feel about it imo it’s about FairPlay.
No.
I don’t work for PD. It’s simply my experience being related in this forum.
I was pissed at all the petulant whining about penalties when the game released and watched PD compromise their principles in the name of larger player base over sticking to their “Motorsport is no contact” guns and played through the ongoing debacle over the last 18 months as play became dirtier.
It just pains me now and I worry that the game will go more lenient again.
I will still play either way it’s just more fun and fair imo when contact is not tolerated as much.
No system at all worked well too in the races I entered, but that’s not going to work for most players imo.

FairPlay

Edit is a zero tolerance for contact in online a 1-1 relationship to real racing? Absolutely not.
Is it by far the best solution so the most players can have the most fun online?
Of course.

Final edit re dr resets. Racing in the real world involves risk. I wish it wasn’t so easy to have multiple accounts in game.
Anyways you are putting your dr up for grabs when you race which I think is good.
It’s an in game risk.
With a good system like now initiating an overtake is a risk.
If there’s no dr reset no sr risk is it meaningful in any way?
Part of the fun of it involves risk imo.
The matching is WACK tho imo. Don’t race A vs D. A vs B ok imo.

Cheers guys and good luck to you all

I do agree with you @Groundfish .
And I don't know for sure, but it seems that people are more careful now. Especially the last week.
It's fun racing now. Competitive, but fun.
Finally, we have a very good penalty system. You just don't hit another car. It was a real mess and they are cleaning up now.

People may shout what they want, but you have to look at your own driving in first place.
A lot of people are complaining, even a group within the top drivers. But honestly.... always the same ones who complain.
There will never be a penalty system that covers all wishes, but this one is more honest than the previous ones.

Just watch the 2 videos in sport mode before you may enter any race in sport mode.
They said it and now you have to deal with it.
You don't hit another car and you have to avoid collisions in any possible manner. Even if you therefor have to go offtrack.
PD was very clear in their statement.

I hope they continu this strict penalty system.
Thumbs up for PD

 

[Petroperu]

I do agree with you @Groundfish .
And I don't know for sure, but it seems that people are more careful now. Especially the last week.
It's fun racing now. Competitive, but fun.
Finally, we have a very good penalty system. You just don't hit another car. It was a real mess and they are cleaning up now.

People may shout what they want, but you have to look at your own driving in first place.
A lot of people are complaining, even a group within the top drivers. But honestly.... always the same ones who complain.
There will never be a penalty system that covers all wishes, but this one is more honest than the previous ones.

Just watch the 2 videos in sport mode before you may enter any race in sport mode.
They said it and now you have to deal with it.
You don't hit another car and you have to avoid collisions in any possible manner. Even if you therefor have to go offtrack.
PD was very clear in their statement.

I hope they continu this strict penalty system.
Thumbs up for PD

Except the people avoiding collisions are getting penalized while the rammers are still unpunished.

 

[NoStopN]

Just watch the 2 videos in sport mode before you may enter any race in sport mode.
They said it and now you have to deal with it.
You don't hit another car and you have to avoid collisions in any possible manner. Even if you therefor have to go offtrack.
PD was very clear in their statement.

I hope they continu this strict penalty system.
Thumbs up for PD

There are times when try as you might, you aren't the cause & still get involved in someone else's mess. The innocent are being punished while most of the wicked are not. I didn't deserve the penalty I got here:

 

[JudegeBerry]

There are times when try as you might, you aren't the cause & still get involved in someone else's mess. The innocent are being punished while most of the wicked are not. I didn't deserve the penalty I got here:

You show quite a few incidents there but imo you definitely did deserve a penalty for what happened at 2:05.

First one was someone coming back onto the track very badly - thats unlucky on you.

 

[NoStopN]

You show quite a few incidents there but imo you definitely did deserve a penalty for what happened at 2:05.

First one was someone coming back onto the track very badly - thats unlucky on you.

Those 2 instances are times when the ghosting system should come into play.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

Let us have a discussion about ghosting, is it really needed in online racing OR should it be disallowed? Since some of us are trying to race properly and trying to get as close to the real thing as possible, shouldn't ghosting be disallowed? If you are passing lapped or wrecking calls in real life they don't ghost out, they are something you have to deal with. Why not have this realism in thee game?

 

[watto79]

Let us have a discussion about ghosting, is it really needed in online racing OR should it be disallowed? Since some of us are trying to race properly and trying to get as close to the real thing as possible, shouldn't ghosting be disallowed? If you are passing lapped or wrecking calls in real life they don't ghost out, they are something you have to deal with. Why not have this realism in thee game?

I've wondered the same thing. I've watched iRacing videos and avoiding a wreck is a skill in itself. You often see people here complaining that a car didn't ghost in time but we shouldn't rely on that. I've had hate messages because I've slowed for a spinning car only for someone to run in to the back of me. I'd like to see avoiding crashes be more a part of the game.

It would be interesting to see how that played out.

I do think though that tracks like Tokyo would become a mess though, and probably impossible to finish a race without a huge wreck.

I also think that lapped cars should always be ghosted.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

I've wondered the same thing. I've watched iRacing videos and avoiding a wreck is a skill in itself. You often see people here complaining that a car didn't ghost in time but we shouldn't rely on that. I've had hate messages because I've slowed for a spinning car only for someone to run in to the back of me. I'd like to see avoiding crashes be more a part of the game.

It would be interesting to see how that played out.

I do think though that tracks like Tokyo would become a mess though, and probably impossible to finish a race without a huge wreck.

I also think that lapped cars should always be ghosted.

Ghosting always makes me nervous because you never know when they will unghost. I try to treat them all as real cars because of this nervousness.

I agree, some tracks would become a mess and this would affect a lot of racer's race.

Does anyone understand the start or end criteria for ghosting? How can you tell if a car is going to/come out of a ghosting state?

 

[stpatty]

I've wondered the same thing. I've watched iRacing videos and avoiding a wreck is a skill in itself. You often see people here complaining that a car didn't ghost in time but we shouldn't rely on that. I've had hate messages because I've slowed for a spinning car only for someone to run in to the back of me. I'd like to see avoiding crashes be more a part of the game.

It would be interesting to see how that played out.

I do think though that tracks like Tokyo would become a mess though, and probably impossible to finish a race without a huge wreck.

I also think that lapped cars should always be ghosted.

The amount of times I've been collected by someone on the first lap because I'm not trying to take my ultimate racing line and pace through a bunched up field or an impending collision ahead of me - at DR A level - suggests this to be a very bad idea. Much like the penalty system it would be fine if everyone behaved perfectly and was at pains to not do anything wrong, but that's not how online video games work. Hopefully PD realise that for GT7.

 

[Famine]

Two weeks ago I had a reset resulting from a gang rape by a bunch of machismo douche bags from that continent to my south. Sorry, but sometimes a bad reputation is well deserved. Twice this week I have been intentionally clobbered by Brazilians ON THE WARM-UP LAP!

Yeah, bad reputations are well deserved, such as those of several members I've seen complaining about people based on where they're from due to some random stereotype, rather than putting the slightest amount of thought into any other reasons than "foreign people bad".


Drivers in South America are, at best, seeing drivers in North America as they were a quarter of a second ago - and vice versa.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ghosting gives and takes. It has saved me from many dive bombs, but also wrecked me due to a car unghosting right on my bumper/door or while avoiding / slowing down for a ghosted track re-entry or penalty server and getting rammed from behind. Ghosting seems to depend on DR so without knowing the DR of the driver you're racing you can't really predict when they will ghost/unghost.

Penalties are still backwards as well. 4 times this driver tried to force me off the road, 4th time he succeeds and I get 3 sec penalty...

 

[watto79]

The amount of times I've been collected by someone on the first lap because I'm not trying to take my ultimate racing line and pace through a bunched up field or an impending collision ahead of me - at DR A level - suggests this to be a very bad idea. Much like the penalty system it would be fine if everyone behaved perfectly and was at pains to not do anything wrong, but that's not how online video games work. Hopefully PD realise that for GT7.

I don't disagree, just thought it could be interesting! Maybe there could be a "hardcore" mode or something

 

[Sean YZF]

Lightly tapping the car in front with no change in position or time lost to the other racer & getting SR down plus a 1 sec penalty is really annoying me. If I'd ruined their race then fair enough but the speed differential could only be 5 mph at most