PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Petroperu]

Those 2 instances are times when the ghosting system should come into play.

How hard is to program a ghosting system like that?
That's a great idea.
Also to add, anyone involved with someone else in a collision; both should be immediately ghosted to prevent further collisions.
There is no yellow flag system. Yes the game let's you know but you can still keep racing.
Also, program an algorythm against rammers, anyone going at certain speeds in a turn with no braking should be penalized with a 10 second penalty.
This is the result of lack of damage.
As a matter of fact, GT is the only racing game STILL without a damage system.
Laughable.

 

[JudegeBerry]

I am against ghosting 100%. Reason being that if ghosting is increased the "race" becomes a time trial - I don't want to play a time trial I want to race.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

How hard is to program a ghosting system like that?
That's a great idea.
Also to add, anyone involved with someone else in a collision; both should be immediately ghosted to prevent further collisions.
There is no yellow flag system. Yes the game let's you know but you can still keep racing.
Also, program an algorythm against rammers, anyone going at certain speeds in a turn with no braking should be penalized with a 10 second penalty.
This is the result of lack of damage.
As a matter of fact, GT is the only racing game STILL without a damage system.
Laughable.

There is a damage system and some FIA races have been run with permanent damage on. The result, get your race ruined by dive bombers or even more so when bumped into a wall. The victim is usually off worse and the result is you have to pit to fix the damage.

But true, ghosting should not be a free pass like it is now. If the game deems you unfit to stay solid, penalty. Penalty zones need to go as well, over 5 sec penalty should be a pit drive through, less take it to the end. Then you can add a minor SR Down for driving through a ghost and a penalty plus major SR Down for having to be ghosted by your own actions.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

At the moment in particular with SR Downs, it feels like you're punished for someone else's bad/ambitious/erratic driving. This is where shared blame makes sense since the other car is penalised but currently, they'll continue driving this way because no punish and the car behind acts as a safety net or slight speed boost.

NGP in an attempt to restore SR once again: I got pushed wide at turn 7 and brushed passed, SR down. Next a car slid perpendicular to the driving line, I was close behind and made a very, very feint tap, SR Down. 3rd was a car in front which 'block braked' by braking a little early for every corner, changed his driving line to be exactly in front to try and catch me out (if this makes sense). Sadly, one SR Down for a slight tap after avoiding many of his other ridiculous attempts. He also managed to increase the time gap for the next driver by over 7 seconds. Blocking is not defending.

I think I made every attempt as humanly possible to avoid making these incidents worse than they were. Someone else could easily have smashed one off the track and receive less -SR points for doing so. It's dumb.

The only reason I still play GTS is for scheduled racing and the choice of car classes but I'm slowly losing desire to play and make ACC my main racing game. It's more funstrating right now.

 

[NoStopN]

I am against ghosting 100%. Reason being that if ghosting is increased the "race" becomes a time trial - I don't want to play a time trial I want to race.

So, you’re fine with one jackhole intentionally ruining many other peoples’ races? If the rammer ghosts when he/she wrecks someone, then other good drivers can get past this child. Let’s not lie here, in the 2 years+ that I’ve been playing, I’ve watched the quality of the racing go down to Forza legend status. Perhaps all of the videos I’ve seen of the Forza penalty system getting things right has made the rammers come over to play havoc on GTS.

 

[JudegeBerry]

So, you’re fine with one jackhole intentionally ruining many other peoples’ races? If the rammer ghosts when he/she wrecks someone, then other good drivers can get past this child. Let’s not lie here, in the 2 years+ that I’ve been playing, I’ve watched the quality of the racing go down to Forza legend status. Perhaps all of the videos I’ve seen of the Forza penalty system getting things right has made the rammers come over to play havoc on GTS.

No I am not ok with that.

I just don't think the answer is to increase ghosting - put those drivers down in SR and let them race each other. If a complicated SR blaming system does not work then move to #sharedfault and finally make it very hard work to recover SR - SR should be going up and down when you are closely racing other drivers not when you are at the back or front.

 

[Scuba1958]

There are just too many damn times when drivers who are trying to race cleanly get penalized for incidents they have absolutely no control over. Last night I was running race A, coming through the chicane before the main straight. A car comes from behind travelling at a speed way beyond what can be carried through that turn. He bounces off the outside wall back onto the track and slams into me. Between hitting the wall and me, he scrubs off enough speed to make it through the end of the chicane ahead of me and cross the finish line. He received no penalty, while I was hit with a 3 second penalty and an SR down.

A system that allows thing like this to happen all the time is broken.

 

[NoStopN]

No I am not ok with that.

I just don't think the answer is to increase ghosting - put those drivers down in SR and let them race each other. If a complicated SR blaming system does not work then move to #sharedfault and finally make it very hard work to recover SR - SR should be going up and down when you are closely racing other drivers not when you are at the back or front.

I would be ok with more lifelike punishment....if PD could program the game that way. First, drop SR for those who barrel into every corner & impact other drivers. I agree with making gaining SR more difficult would help to keep those crash happy people out of the way of drivers who want to race. I like @Sven Jurgens idea about a drive through penalty once you cross a certain amount of penalty time. But, somehow PD just decided that they don't want to be the real driving simulator, because they can't handle penalties like reality would.

 

[KaiB]

I´m not the best example since i don´t race that much in dailys.
But i do like the system has it is, its still erratic but the point and the message is there, race it´s not a contact sport and if people don´t avoid contact they will get penalised.
Yes i do agree that system have several faults and its far from perfect but at least now people have a little more respect and afraid.
Actually since i play gt sport the best period and the most consecutive clean races happened since this new penalty system was implemented.
My driving style didnt change.., on the other hand seems others drivers are more cautious, less bumps and punts.., dive bombs etc.

 

[Soundmangt4]

Spa. Twice I got dive bombed at the final chicane, both time I tried to avoid them by turning in after they flew past, then both occasions as they returned to track sliding all over the place I got swiped by the swaying rear end and got SR down. It really only promotes dirty driving nowadays, and side-swiping.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I´m not the best example since i don´t race that much in dailys.
But i do like the system has it is, its still erratic but the point and the message is there, race it´s not a contact sport and if people don´t avoid contact they will get penalised.
Yes i do agree that system have several faults and its far from perfect but at least now people have a little more respect and afraid.
Actually since i play gt sport the best period and the most consecutive clean races happened since this new penalty system was implemented.
My driving style didnt change.., on the other hand seems others drivers are more cautious, less bumps and punts.., dive bombs etc.

I beg to differ. Yesterday evening at NGP, usually the cleanest day of the week, had tons of door banging (which doesn't trigger penalties). I got pushed outside the track either in the braking zone (on the outside) or at corner exit. People caught on that bumper to bumper contact is bad and are now fully compensating with side contact... This was all at SR.99 in fast lobbies. Then when I get completely driven off the road (see a few posts above) I get 3 sec penalty for forcing another car off. It couldn't be more backwards.

I have never experienced so much contact on a Sunday evening... For example:

No penalties issued, no respect, no fear.

My driving style didn't change either. Last week I never left 99 SR, the week before on Monza 3 DR resets. It's all or nothing with this system with nothing in between it seems.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

the message is there, race it´s not a contact sport and if people don´t avoid contact they will get penalised.

Many of us get that. If people didn't drive beyond their capability and use others for side-swiping or braking cushions to make corners and stay on the track after their own failure to do so, I think we'd see far less contact.

The system is overly simplistic with issuing SR Down penalties. It recognises contact but doesn't account for a front car not braking in time with the right marker, whether it was under control by checking steering input or if it was at an angle that matched the track.

In a real life situation, I doubt stewards would penalise a rear car for minor contact if the front car didn't adhere to basic racing and track standards. If someone is driving erratically, that's a danger in itself because there's no telling what they'll do next. If I knew the driver, I could prepare myself for their driving style/habits but with random online opponents in short sprint races who are hard trusting to begin with, that's very difficult.

E: I want to add I'm grateful 'bump to win' and 'push to pass' drivers can be penalised. That's something which has been a problem for a long time.

 

[Raptor013]

Many of us get that. If people didn't drive beyond their capability and use others for side-swiping or braking cushions to make corners and stay on the track after their own failure to do so, I think we'd see far less contact.

The system is overly simplistic with issuing SR Down penalties. It recognises contact but doesn't account for a front car not braking in time with the right marker, whether it was under control by checking steering input or if it was at an angle that matched the track.

In a real life situation, I doubt stewards would penalise a rear car for minor contact if the front car didn't adhere to basic racing and track standards. If someone is driving erratically, that's a danger in itself because there's no telling what they'll do next. If I knew the driver, I could prepare myself for their driving style/habits but with random online opponents in short sprint races who are hard trusting to begin with, that's very difficult.

E: I want to add I'm grateful 'bump to win' and 'push to pass' drivers can be penalised. That's something which has been a problem for a long time.

So true.

Had a race tonight in the Daily C and the guy in front lost control and went sideways after touching the grass on exit at Turn 3 straight across my path.

I saw it coming and was already on the brakes and steering to the opening gap behind his car. I couldn't avoid the contact despite trying and still copped a 4 second penalty and a massive SR Down for my efforts to avoid him.

It's things like that, that make you go, should've just punted him in the door.

 

[KaiB]

I beg to differ. Yesterday evening at NGP, usually the cleanest day of the week, had tons of door banging (which doesn't trigger penalties). I got pushed outside the track either in the braking zone (on the outside) or at corner exit. People caught on that bumper to bumper contact is bad and are now fully compensating with side contact... This was all at SR.99 in fast lobbies. Then when I get completely driven off the road (see a few posts above) I get 3 sec penalty for forcing another car off. It couldn't be more backwards.

I have never experienced so much contact on a Sunday evening... For example:

No penalties issued, no respect, no fear.

My driving style didn't change either. Last week I never left 99 SR, the week before on Monza 3 DR resets. It's all or nothing with this system with nothing in between it seems.

Well seems one of the issues is that SR and DR reset can happen in a single race witch means big hits on the ranking even in minor incidents.
I only realized that from watching some streamers, one of them it´s kie but most of the times he get a penalty is cause he is over agressive or dive bomb others.., bump them etc and he blames the system.., but when he dont get a penalty and put others out of the race he laughts.

I was not saying that it´s a proven fact that races are better.., i barely do dailys and when i do i only pick combos with long races...
In theory this system could work in the way that people really need to take care of the car like in RL, most of times people see an incident in front or an error happening when a player lose control they try to capitalize.., the tendency is saying its not their fault cause they didnt caused the incident, but if the main thing people do its try capitalize instead of brake and avoid contact.., in RL races almost for sure the car will get damaged and its race over.., what is happening in GT in those situations is that people get penaltys even when they didnt nothing to provoque an incident.
Same for rear bumps…, game not always penalize that situations but when it does its cause contact happened.


I think its really hard to design a system and like your saying your experience has nothing to do with mine, i went to see some videos and yes ican understand why people are getting mad, probably i had luck lately but like i mentioned small combo races with few laps it´s not my thing longer is my thing and FIA races i do like them.
I´m not the best example but theres my last races witch aren´t many…, i totally avoid dailys causes most of the times in the past they only made me rage.., just like your mentioning, seems nothing has changed probably i had luck in races i did.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=9636906

 

[Groundfish]

Well seems one of the issues is that SR and DR reset can happen in a single race

I want to see proof of this. I’m callin BS.
I tried to do that, and it was impossible for me. I’m talking I drove like a maniac, punting sr downs brakechecking, many penalties, I don’t believe it’s possible to do in one race even trying to!
Once you get to B sr it’s very hard to get reset,
I wanna see video of what a person did to get reset because it to me sounds like people are just afraid of it not that it’s even truly possible.

 

[csmirnoff]

I want to see proof of this. I’m callin BS.
I tried to do that, and it was impossible for me. I’m talking I drove like a maniac, punting sr downs brakechecking, many penalties, I don’t believe it’s possible to do in one race even trying to!
Once you get to B sr it’s very hard to get reset,
I wanna see video of what a person did to get reset because it to me sounds like people are just afraid of it not that it’s even truly possible.

Reset from a single SR down:

 

[meekrab]

Reset from a single SR down:

You can see from that accounts' SR and DR history that's simply not true:

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=8723552

Day 95 - 48k dr 99 sr
Day 96 - 47k dr 60 sr
Day 97 - 20k dr 75 sr (obviously lost more sr and then regained it to finish at 75)

Takes a lot more than one SR down to get a DR reset from 99 sr.

 

[sdi_03]

Reset from a single race

clearly shown in vid that he’s sr was at B day before.
And Kie is not exactly the cleanest driver.
Have watched few of his vids, and almost all passes has contact of some sort.
He really thinks that he has right to the corner if hes front bumber is over the lead cars rear bumper.
Fast but dirty I say.

 

[csmirnoff]

You can see from that accounts' SR and DR history that's simply not true:

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=8723552

Day 95 - 48k dr 99 sr
Day 96 - 47k dr 60 sr
Day 97 - 20k dr 75 sr

Takes a lot more than one SR down to get a DR reset from 99 sr.

If you would have at least watched the video before accusing people, you would have seen he went from A/A to B/C from a single race. What you say from Kudosprime is irrelevant because you only get one reading per day, he obviously improved his ratings to B/A before the day finished.

Take a look at his "Latest races" at https://gtsport.r1s3.net/user/8723552, you will see he lost 21 SR from that race with a single SR down.

 

[Fennario]

Thing Tidgney streamed a FIA race a week or two ago that was absolute chaos. There were several S -> C and at least one reset that were shown on the results board.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Reset from a single SR down:

I've raced against that player a few times, he tends to think he is the only car on the track so a SR reset is probably appropriate.

 

[meekrab]

If you would have at least watched the video before accusing people, you would have seen he went from A/A to B/C from a single race. What you say from Kudosprime is irrelevant because you only get one reading per day, he obviously improved his ratings to B/A before the day finished.

Take a look at his "Latest races" at https://gtsport.r1s3.net/user/8723552, you will see he lost 21 SR from that race with a single SR down.

Still didn't get reset just from that race because he lost SR from a previous race to get to that A rating...

 

[csmirnoff]

Still didn't get reset just from that race because he lost SR from a previous race to get to that A rating...

Of course, but @Groundfish asked for a video to know whether you could get reset in one race. If one minor contact gets you -21 SR (with many SR ups, so it was probably -24 or -25), a race with a few incidents could definitely reset your DR. In another thread, someone even posted a guy who lost over 100 SR on a single race (so basically, he went from SR 99 to SR 1). I imagine that at least some of those incidents must have been worth a penalty and maybe a reset, but anyway... It is possible to get reset from just one race? Definitely yes.

As for Kie's driving, I just put that video as an example, not to discuss whether he deserves the reset or not. Tidgney's video that @Fennario mentioned was also a good example:



In his Monza race, in the SR S drop split (80 to 89 SR), a guy goes from SR S to SR E in a single race.

EDIT: Found the guy I was talking about. In this post, you can see a guy who lost -104 SR in a single race. I think we can assume he wasn't driving very cleanly... The penalty system gets it wrong but not THAT wrong.

 

[Groundfish]

Of course, but @Groundfish asked for a video to know whether you could get reset in one race. If one minor contact gets you -21 SR (with many SR ups, so it was probably -24 or -25), a race with a few incidents could definitely reset your DR

I’m not saying “in theory If”
I’m saying I tried to and couldn’t do it. Not even in 3 races hitting everyone near me every chance I got. It took me five races of that.
I still have yet to see a video showing one race from 99 to dr reset.
I think it’s a bs. Also that one famous stream guy has always been petulant and driven too roughly for my tastes.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I’m not saying “in theory If”
I’m saying I tried to and couldn’t do it. Not even in 3 races hitting everyone near me every chance I got. It took me five races of that.
I still have yet to see a video showing one race from 99 to dr reset.
I think it’s a bs. Also that one famous stream guy has always been petulant and driven too roughly for my tastes.

I've done it by driving back and forth most of the race -3 SR per SD Down, 32 times back and forth then quit. All reset.

Driving normally I've not been that unlucky yet. From SR.A to SR.C (reset to 15K) was my biggest single race drop. I've seen people go from SR.S to SR.E in a single race though. The special ones I've shown videos of in the past. Punting 10 people off in a race, you can do it! Actually back front contact SR Downs work faster. Now I think about it, I have dropped more in a single race from draft bumping at BMB.

 

[csmirnoff]

I’m not saying “in theory If”
I’m saying I tried to and couldn’t do it. Not even in 3 races hitting everyone near me every chance I got. It took me five races of that.
I still have yet to see a video showing one race from 99 to dr reset.
I think it’s a bs. Also that one famous stream guy has always been petulant and driven too roughly for my tastes.

Well, look at Tidgney's video I posted above. Not from 99 but a guy went from SR S (80+) to SR E. Also, again... the evidence that you can lose all your SR points in one race: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/2020-fia-series-race-discussion.376323/page-101#post-13186781 (from a 90+ SR lobby). What they have done to lose so much SR in a single race, I have no idea, but it's evidence that it's possible, not "in theory".

 

[das89ca]

I’m not saying “in theory If”
I’m saying I tried to and couldn’t do it. Not even in 3 races hitting everyone near me every chance I got. It took me five races of that.
I still have yet to see a video showing one race from 99 to dr reset.
I think it’s a bs. Also that one famous stream guy has always been petulant and driven too roughly for my tastes.

I don't have a replay of that, but I gone from SR72 to 20 in the FIA race at Nurburgring GP with Gr4 driving the Viper on my second account. I did not get any penalty during the race, just 4 or 5 times I accelerated better then the guy in front from corners and as I did not want to force a ****** overtake lifted and slightly touched the back of his car. I chased him all the race, but had no place to pass safely so finished the race behind him.

This was a dirtier race in the opinion of the game then another FIA race when I absolutely murdered a guy twice because I thought he rammed me out on purpose. Twice I got a penalty for ramming him and once when he hit me in the first place, but my SR dropped from 99 to 84. So yeah, penalty system can be a handful...

 

[Redneckchef]

I’m not saying “in theory If”
I’m saying I tried to and couldn’t do it. Not even in 3 races hitting everyone near me every chance I got. It took me five races of that.
I still have yet to see a video showing one race from 99 to dr reset.
I think it’s a bs. Also that one famous stream guy has always been petulant and driven too roughly for my tastes.

I will post my replay later today, but I didnt save the actual in game footage. However, if you check my rage post from 3 weeks ago or thereabouts I went from 93 or 96 ish SR to 13 SR in 1 race in the Minis at Brands. I was not totally innocent, but if you watch the race you will be confused as to how it happened. I was thinking of recording it with a narrative to explain where the SR downs occurred. Went fro 39,5K to 7K in 6 laps at Brands Indy. It seems like more deliberate punts and wrecks are punished less harshly than completely incidental contact.

 

[Groundfish]

It seems like more deliberate punts and wrecks are punished less harshly than completely incidental contact

The sr down affects the rating far more now than a penalty for hitting someone off.
I’d buy that.
I remember you said that 40k to 7k or something.
The other bit is difficulty and time required to restore S safety.
I managed it this weekend but only because I was able to pole to flag a bunch at Suzuka.
Last night I ran mostly from last and gaining sr was not happening IF I maintained a semblance of trying to race.
I’ll keep going tonight to see if I can climb out of E sr.
It almost seems the fastest way would be getting reset completely then crb the first race back.
Coming from where I am is going to be interesting.

 

[Redneckchef]

So here is the race where I got reset, including some hurried narration from me. Apologies about the kids in the background. The other driver isnt to blame here, let me make sure I am clear about that now. We both made mistakes although I think they had a dirty move. But most of it was incidental.

However, the way the system runs at the moment I feel like I was handed a disproportionate punishment. Figured at the end I was going to be savaged to SR B at worst. Nope, it was a drop from 93 to 13 and SR D. They left that race with a blue S.

Somehow minor bumper taps are far more evil than punting someone off and ruining their race.