PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[barak181]

And what about the victims, people who have invested time and are immediately out of the race because of another drivers error ? That is in reality how to lose customers.

If that happens I would stop playing. Every time I was hit his race might be over but so would mine. Nope, not my idea of fun.

Honestly, it's the same as shared blame penalties but I'd wager they'd clean things up a lot quicker than penalties would. A pit stop repairs the damage, that's how heavy damage works now. People get sent to the back of the grid, they lose their advantage gained by using other people as guide rails.

Honestly, right now the penalty system incentives bad behavior and often penalized the victim. I've had too many races ruined by others people bad driving to count, as it is. I've been hit so hard that I've lost 20+ sec before. At least this way they are forced to learn or never improve their ratings.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Honestly, it's the same as shared blame penalties but I'd wager they'd clean things up a lot quicker than penalties would. A pit stop repairs the damage, that's how heavy damage works now. People get sent to the back of the grid, they lose their advantage gained by using other people as guide rails.

Honestly, right now the penalty system incentives bad behavior and often penalized the victim. I've had too many races ruined by others people bad driving to count, as it is. I've been hit so hard that I've lost 20+ sec before. At least this way they are forced to learn or never improve their ratings.

Shared fault is a good idea in my book. But imagine heavy damage being on, you get T-boned in T3 of this week's race C. Now you have to go through all of Nordschleife limping and then you have to go to pit to repair it. When you come out of pits the race is over.
And it might teach the dirty drives to stop playing GTS,but what does it teach the new ones? They make a mistake and their race ANd the one ahead's race is over. Once, maybe twice and they will probably walk away from the game.
I sympathize with the idea but can't see it work for real.
Shared fault and light damage, yes. Even though it will be rough it will be playable.

 

[ASH32]

Even now though there are people driving the wrong way, until they get kicked and others trying to stop you lapping them by weaving all over the place, I guess to put you off and/or trying to crash into you even though they are a ghost. You go and turn heavy damage on and there's a new game for them, they'll hit as many cars as possible on lap one for the "lols" causing a ton of damage and then they'll quit and move on to the next race and repeat, a lot don't care about ratings, just look at the amount of people that quit a race now to see this.

With the way people seem to react to penalties now I'm not sure shared fault would even work. Since people are too used to driving aggressively now, everyone would be like "that wasn't my fault, they got me a penalty" and start ramming them back, as with shared fault they can't possible lose out by doing this "revenge" and this nonsense happens too much as it is.

TBH I'm not sure anything will work at this point with regards to the penalty system. The biggest problem (apart from too many idiots,can't fix that) is that the SR is meaningless with regards to clean driving since the cap is far too low, stick it up to 999 or even higher and I guarantee that no dirty driver would ever get near to full SR then, they'd have to have far too many clean races in a row without quitting, not happening.

Also remove the DR resets as they are dumb and don't add anything positive to the game and then if they are mixed SR rooms just start all the lower SR people behind the cleaner drivers regardless of their qualifying time.

 

[barak181]

Even now though there are people driving the wrong way, until they get kicked and others trying to stop you lapping them by weaving all over the place, I guess to put you off and/or trying to crash into you even though they are a ghost. You go and turn heavy damage on and there's a new game for them, they'll hit as many cars as possible on lap one for the "lols" causing a ton of damage and then they'll quit and move on to the next race and repeat, a lot don't care about ratings, just look at the amount of people that quit a race now to see this.

With the way people seem to react to penalties now I'm not sure shared fault would even work. Since people are too used to driving aggressively now, everyone would be like "that wasn't my fault, they got me a penalty" and start ramming them back, as with shared fault they can't possible lose out by doing this "revenge" and this nonsense happens too much as it is.

TBH I'm not sure anything will work at this point with regards to the penalty system. The biggest problem (apart from too many idiots,can't fix that) is that the SR is meaningless with regards to clean driving since the cap is far too low, stick it up to 999 or even higher and I guarantee that no dirty driver would ever get near to full SR then, they'd have to have far too many clean races in a row without quitting, not happening.

Also remove the DR resets as they are dumb and don't add anything positive to the game and then if they are mixed SR rooms just start all the lower SR people behind the cleaner drivers regardless of their qualifying time.

I 100% agree with the DR reset, now that I've been through one. At first, it was aggravating when it happened but really all it did was put me at the front of the grid and gave me a bunch of wins as I worked my way back up. I can confidently say that DR resets are not any sort of deterrent that cleans up driving and sportsmanship.

 

[ASH32]

I 100% agree with the DR reset, now that I've been through one. At first, it was aggravating when it happened but really all it did was put me at the front of the grid and gave me a bunch of wins as I worked my way back up. I can confidently say that DR resets are not any sort of deterrent that cleans up driving and sportsmanship.

Yes exactly, if anything DR resets encourage aggressive driving for those with a win at any cost mentality.

Another obvious thing that's been said to death is that everyone should play by the same rules, no extra ghosting for low rated drivers, no extra penalties for high rated drivers, just one ghosting/penalty/SR system for everyone.

Only then can you know what works and what doesn't and even begin to think about how to fix it. 💡

 

[Timm Sheehan]

. . . and then if they are mixed SR rooms just start all the lower SR people behind the cleaner drivers regardless of their qualifying time.

I am not quite sure I agree with you on this (everything else is spot on). How about we match by qualifying times and not by one's' SR? Wouldn't that work better? I can't see any other real way to match driver's correctly for races and obviously neither can PD.

Personally I think there should be no split DR rooms ever but also don't agree with matched SR rooms with qualifying times from x.01 to 10.x second difference. Like I said, I can't see any other real way to match driver's correctly for races.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

I 100% agree with the DR reset, now that I've been through one. At first, it was aggravating when it happened but really all it did was put me at the front of the grid and gave me a bunch of wins as I worked my way back up. I can confidently say that DR resets are not any sort of deterrent that cleans up driving and sportsmanship.

Probably why some don't care about their ratings and drive with a not caring attitude since well, a handful of bad races later and you're reset again.

Depending on the week, I can be toying with a reset and that doesn't make racing very fun when there's a constant reminder that if things turn south, maybe through my own fault or not, I've lost a ton of DR. Admittedly, there are days when I don't want to race at all because of it. I understand it's a 'punishment' but it's a terrible way to go about one.

 

[ASH32]

I am not quite sure I agree with you on this (everything else is spot on). How about we match by qualifying times and not by one's' SR? Wouldn't that work better? I can't see any other real way to match driver's correctly for races and obviously neither can PD.

Personally I think there should be no split DR rooms ever but also don't agree with matched SR rooms with qualifying times from x.01 to 10.x second difference. Like I said, I can't see any other real way to match driver's correctly for races.

I do think it needs to be DR matching (then Q time) and not as it currently is but low player numbers and the mixed rooms this causes creates problems (for any matching system) that otherwise would probably not exist.

However whatever the matching system is, it will not work unless there is some sort of punishment for unclean driving. Going off Q time only basically scraps the SR completely, which is kind of a problem if you want clean driving, I'd expect it'd lead to ultra aggressive racing and lots of penalty system fails.

Which is why I suggest the lower SR "handicap" if you will. If someone rated DR A SR A couldn't start in front of another DR A (whose slower) because they are SR S maybe then they'd have to clean it up so they can start in the correct place next time or maybe they'd just smash the slower drivers out of the way as they need to get to where they "deserve" to start. I could see either/both happening unfortunately. 🤬

Like I said I don't think there's an easy answer unfortunately and I'm open to PD trying anything at this point, what have they (we) really got to lose.

 

[Groundfish]

Not bad for a guy new to Gran Turismo eh?
. I think that it’s time to admit also that the FIA carrot dangle world tour should no longer define the online matchmaking.
In an effective system imo, the more skilled drivers would be separated from less skilled.
If the system worked properly, clean drivers would simply never get matched with children slamming off walls pedal pinned to the floor.
If it worked, over time, the better you drove, the less BS you would see.

I think FIA is fine, for the FIA part of online.
The best players in the game and any player really should have NO RISK of FIA point loss in daily races.
There’s literal so many things to do that are more important than redoing the menu structure for gt7 or adding “performance parts”. or some big single player offline campaign.
I mean if that’s GT7, they might as well have no online at all and keep the 2 titles going forward imo.

They say “DRIVING IS FOR EVERYONE”

But without good ratings and structure, there’s no place in the game for more mature skilled players who drive clean, even if they aren’t the fastest.
Drivers who stay clean and race dailies should never be matched up with bashers.
Your rating shouldn’t drop in half after a year of clean play after one bad race.
If anything they should impose a next race grid penalty in that case and forfeit the players current qual time.
So let’s say you are in an A S lobby and some player hits a few guys off, having a bad day or whatever...
Instead of ranking him down so he can go beat up on lower ranked players and ruin their races...
What you do is keep him or her matched at his or her rank, but forfeit their q time. (Force them to qual again). AND impose a grid time penalty in their next race.
So next race they are matched into the same skill room, BUT starting from last, with their accumulated time penalty ALSO imposed at race start.
So say they had ten seconds of pens...Next race they start last and have to wait ten seconds before starting

I mean there’s literally a million simple things that could be done to improve this current debacle.
I stand by my words from before...The current sr dr system is an embarrassment to the great Japanese world leading companies with their names on GTS.

If the SR DR setup worked, and FIA was completely separate ranking and points wise from dailies, then GTS would own and dominate online racing period.
If good drivers could hop on into a daily, be pretty darn certain it’s be clean, and KNOW it wouldn’t affect their FIA STATUS AT ALL!
Then you wouldn’t see so many good players moving on from this game.
Guess what, a lot of those players PD is losing are VERY skilled, and have plenty of money to buy consoles peripherals, influence their friends to join etc...
How they can figure patronizing us drivers with a debacle of a rating system is acceptable I will never understand.
I guess they don’t like making money???

All they need is shared fault plus logging contact over the online career and sr scoring tweaks.
Then matchmaking would actually work

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I've been a dirty driver this week picking up a load of penalties, these are my 8 "favourites":

 

[fisheye]

I've been a dirty driver this week picking up a load of penalties, these are my 8 "favourites":

I've been good this week. Maybe Santa will bring me a PS5 for maintaining an SR/S only doing race A. DR doesn't seem to mean 🤬 anymore.

 

[fisheye]

I've been a dirty driver this week picking up a load of penalties, these are my 8 "favourites":

That last turn in your video is the one I 🤬 up on every time, and sometimes the right turn I'm not supposed to take to the finish line.

 

[Groundfish]

I've been a dirty driver this week picking up a load of penalties, these are my 8 "favourites":

Here’s the thing, take any of those drivers, that LOST CONTROL COMPLETELY MID RACE NEAR OTHERS, WENT SIDEWAYS AND CRASHED INTO OTHERS (you)
BUT THEY MAINTAIN SR AND YOU (hit by outta control idiot). TAKE SR DOWN AND TIME PENALTY.

So the games saying it’s ok to race over your ability go out of control crash into a competitor, BUT, if you get hit by that out of control monkey, then you are Satan!

Those were 8 perfect clips showing the SR system has completely failed, even works opposite to what it should.

You couldn’t make this stuff up! Hilariously bad!

 

[Redneckchef]

Honestly not sure what PD wants me to do when racing. DR A with DR B drivers in front and behind. Get bumped into turn 1 on a miracle dive, my fault. Cut the edge of the track to avoid a spinning car, penalty. Stay on track instead of cutting, but cant fully atop instantly when car ahead gets the curb glitch, penalty. I barely bump lower rated driver in middle of turn as we are adjusting lines. My penalty. Lower rated driver dives and launches me.into the wall, my penalty.
I get it that you want to punish contact, but really? How am I supposed to race out of this when everything I do gets me the penalty because the lower rated driver nailed a miracle qualifying lap and now cant keep it on track?

Oh well. Enough whining. Time to try one in the lower S grades and see how nasty it gets.

 

[Haitauer]

I've been a dirty driver this week picking up a load of penalties, these are my 8 "favourites":

I havent driven in sport races for a long time. Now I tested the race c with a fresh user, and had 8 sec of penalty before the end of lap 1. Must say this was also due to me driving too close to DR D/E drivers with the erratic braking points they have, but i did notice the "touch to get involved" -penalties are very common at Nurb due to people spinning on racing line.

I cant see any other way to make a working algorithm than trigger point and force vector. Trigger point would check where one lost the traction or went off track and wouldn't penalize other touching this car after that point. Force vector should check the direction of both cars and steering angles, and see if the touch actually changed the direction / balance of the "victim" and if also compared to steering angle this would tell if the victim was kept outside track in some cases where drivind sidebyside.

 

[Groundfish]

I get it that you want to punish contact, but really? How am I supposed to race out of this when everything I do gets me the penalty because the lower rated driver nailed a miracle qualifying lap and now cant keep it on track?

The answer is DONT race at all unless you spend hours qualifying first, at least late in the week, OR don’t qualify at all on alt. This way at least you still start last so can regain sr when you get hit by the inevitable bs penalty.
The system would be better if it simply registered contacts and placed it in a log.
Separate drivers sr based on number of contacts over time and base matching on sr.
Get FIA points out of dailies!!!
Make 2 game modes.
Cool thing would be then dailies would be populated by better drivers on main because their precious FIA account would be unaffected.
There’s very very simple things they could do...
I’m remembering now what dr B is like on NA like since I’m mid B. IT SUCKS
These people don’t have racecraft yet. They either don’t care, don’t play enough to develop speed but race well (rare) or they are so ignorant of how to race they are stuck in b.
I had guys actively calling me dirty on b race for exiting the last turn and moving to the inside of the track immediately to prepare to defend the inside at turn 1.
These idiots all bombed me then called me dirty.
I’m flabbergasted at these idiots, but really it’s not their fault. How are they to learn how to race since better drivers in game just rank up on dailies then switch to FIA only???
Also the game gives no reccomendations or instructions at all about what’s allowed and what’s not.
How much overlap do I need under braking to have rights to the turn?
The game doesn’t tell me. Is it different for different classes? The game doesn’t tell me.
What you see is a result of the unexplained and misguided penalty system.
It’s evolved a lot of garbage “racing”
It’s not the players faults, it’s total lack of sensible guidance from the game, hell it lets you smash cars off to win in the experience part for crying out loud.

Edit the other thing is if they are going to have the system as bad as it is right now they need to give more sr points out!
The game is not enjoyable when it hands out penalties to the player when they get hit by out of control vehicles...The player loses sr...
Once you’re below S on NA you can’t race, you can’t come within half a lap of another car if you wanna get out of it, BUT NOW, THE KICKER IS THE SYSTEM SLAPS YOU DOWN AND MAKES IT CERY DIFFICULT TO RECOVER!

So you end up with more angry players, morale is low, it’s a vicious cycle cause by the incompetence of those responsible for the SR system...

Right now I’d rather have ALL RATINGS OFF. NO POINTS AT ALL, NO PENALTIES EXCEPT TEACK LIMITS, MATCH ON Q TIME.

That would be fun at least right now playing is like being tortured.

 

[fisheye]

This is the 2nd time this has happened. The cars in P1-7 get a head start and the rest stall at the start. Besides that, the idiot in front of me did a very good job of blocking every attempt for me to pass him for the entire race.

If this is the new way of cheating, my disc will be broken in half.

 

[ASH32]

@fisheye It could be cheating or trolling or an accident but the person starting in 8th did cause it. This glitch has been around a long time, maybe forever in fact, I don't know how exactly you cause it but as far as I know it's something to do with using the PS chat during the rolling start animation, Sport gets all confused and holds you up and everyone starting behind you. 👎

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

Here are my thoughts on the current penalty system and what PD must do to address the issues.
https://lbry.tv/@Rantatin':e/PD-Logic--Communication:3

 

[fisheye]

@fisheye It could be cheating or trolling or an accident but the person starting in 8th did cause it. This glitch has been around a long time, maybe forever in fact, I don't know how exactly you cause it but as far as I know it's something to do with using the PS chat during the rolling start animation, Sport gets all confused and holds you up and everyone starting behind you. 👎

It's no accident that #8 cut off every attempt to pass him, swerving in my path every time. Coincidence?

 

[ASH32]

It's no accident that #8 cut off every attempt to pass him, swerving in my path every time. Coincidence?

The blocking could be because they were annoyed at the stupid start and didnt know that they'd actually caused the glitch. I don't see how doing it helps them.

It could be a troll as I said, they might have made a video of themselves doing the glitch and all the dirty driving to show off as if it's clever or something.

Or they could have been doing this to help a mate up front, I've seen and seen videos of teammates doing this in races before, one does the glitch to allow the other to get away. In one case the glitcher started 4th so 3 cars got away and 16 plus the glitcher were all held up, it was total chaos once the race started.

It's hard to know which camp they fit in.

 

[NoStopN]

Here’s the thing, take any of those drivers, that LOST CONTROL COMPLETELY MID RACE NEAR OTHERS, WENT SIDEWAYS AND CRASHED INTO OTHERS (you)
BUT THEY MAINTAIN SR AND YOU (hit by outta control idiot). TAKE SR DOWN AND TIME PENALTY.

So the games saying it’s ok to race over your ability go out of control crash into a competitor, BUT, if you get hit by that out of control monkey, then you are Satan!

Those were 8 perfect clips showing the SR system has completely failed, even works opposite to what it should.

You couldn’t make this stuff up! Hilariously bad!

It's nice to know that @GOTMAXPOWER dropped his SR to E in order to illustrate more examples of the failed penalty system. He took 8 for the team. Under normal circumstances, I might have tried a few races on the N24, but certainly the B race this week. I've been taking care of things at home & haven't been in the mood to repair SR or get 5 measly DR points for my finishing location. To put it bluntly, the penalty system is REDUCING my desire to play the game!!!! Do you see that PD? Is that clear enough?

This is the 2nd time this has happened. The cars in P1-7 get a head start and the rest stall at the start. Besides that, the idiot in front of me did a very good job of blocking every attempt for me to pass him for the entire race.

If he blocked for the entire race, I wouldn't have had the patience. I would have gotten into a pass position & if he blocked again, he would be eating the wall, no matter the penalty. Blocking isn't racing. And trying to maintain 8th place isn't winning. If it is a legitimate cheat at the start of the race, then he deserves the wall.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@fisheye It could be cheating or trolling or an accident but the person starting in 8th did cause it. This glitch has been around a long time, maybe forever in fact, I don't know how exactly you cause it but as far as I know it's something to do with using the PS chat during the rolling start animation, Sport gets all confused and holds you up and everyone starting behind you. 👎

Yep that's how I first noticed it, my car not moving at the start after replying to a message during the cars lining up. If you have the game in the background (in the ps menu is enough) right after warm-up complete and don't come back until the rolling start you trigger this feature turning the race into a standing start for you and everyone behind you.

 

[Groundfish]

. To put it bluntly, the penalty system is REDUCING my desire to play the game!

It’s doing that to EVERYONE GOOD right now.

It doesn’t matter to me what happens at low SR.

The failure is at sr S. The driving’s not clean. In many cases it’s dirtier at S.

Total sr system failure. It makes me into an arcade smash em up GAMER.

It’s impossible to RACE under this system. Only thing you can do is get pole, drive alone.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It’s doing that to EVERYONE GOOD right now.

It doesn’t matter to me what happens at low SR.

The failure is at sr S. The driving’s not clean. In many cases it’s dirtier at S.

Total sr system failure. It makes me into an arcade smash em up GAMER.

It’s impossible to RACE under this system. Only thing you can do is get pole, drive alone.

When you try to race, you get a penalty. I find myself staying well back from people, waiting for them to screw up or go wide enough to squeeze through since every time you go for a pass, all they have to do is tap your car before you are ahead and if you complete the pass all clean, you still get a penalty. As soon as they make contact you have to slow down, not pass, and you get off with SR Down only.

You're right it only gets dirtier further up the SR ladder. I wandered into SR.A just now and was not prepared for the new level of dirty going on in SR.A. Rammed back to B. I don't mind, I still get fastest lap and a couple victories per day. And now and then (1 in 20 drivers) you meet a great racer you can actually share the road with.

My block list is growing rapidly again from GT Sport. I block real dirty drivers out of habit (you used to be able to pull up the players met list before the race and quickly see who is blocked and thus dirty, yet since the last ps update the list keeps jumping around all the time ) I wonder how many people I have blocked over the course of GT Sport. This week it's avg 2 per race.

 

[Groundfish]

@Sven Jurgens
It’s the worst I’ve ever seen it right now.
All ranks filled with angry jerks, the higher up sr you go the better they are at cheating.
I got rammed down to B again too.

 

[fisheye]

@Sven Jurgens
It’s the worst I’ve ever seen it right now.
All ranks filled with angry jerks, the higher up sr you go the better they are at cheating.
I got rammed down to B again too.

I changed my car from the black one to the red one in the SR/S rooms. The red one has better bumper targeting.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@Sven Jurgens
It’s the worst I’ve ever seen it right now.
All ranks filled with angry jerks, the higher up sr you go the better they are at cheating.
I got rammed down to B again too.

Indeed, what I noticed this week, far down I recognize a lot of names of people I know to be clean and still drive clean. The higher my SR gets (although only briefly lol) the more I recognize names of people I know to be dirty and yep, still driving dirty. The sneaky kind of dirty.

I wasn't going to post anymore videos or gifs of penalties but this one sums up to total incompetence of the penalty team

It's an old bug as well. Then later I got disconnected while climbing back up to 3rd after serving the penalty

 

[Vegard]

I wasn't going to post anymore videos or gifs of penalties but this one sums up to total incompetence of the penalty team

I mean, you should have predicted that he was going to be reset there and driven off the track to avoid contact

 

[DanSHW]

It's never going to be perfect, as PD only determine penalties on what happens after contact, and ignore car positioning and movement/inputs from before. It could be made to work with a few tweaks though:

- Sort out ghosting. If someone's in a slide, or returning from off-track, ghost them. If two cars are going to have a big impact, ghost them.
- Shared Fault on SR, if they can't sort out blame properly, stop trying, it's basically a toss-up at the moment who gets the penalty.
- Stop the DR resets, and matchmake only on DR, but for every SR point below 99, you lose 1% of (post-BoP) power. This would need the shared fault on SR, but as soon as people realise they're wrecking their own chances for future races, they'd hopefully do less crashing! If this could be implemented "live" during races, it would be even better, but that's probably asking a bit much.