PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[BigSarj]

I could be. Last time it was like this, around X-mas 2019, the dirty drivers calmed down a lot when they realised that if they where dirty they got a dose of their own medicine. It was some of the cleanest racing I have ever had in GTS.

It's like hockey fights. It's self policing at its finest. Refs handing out penalties is fine but nothing like a bloody nose to rethink what you did. And it lets the aggression out so both teams can get back to playing the actual game.

Not that I will ever retaliate. It's just not my style. But I get it.

I much prefer this new penalty system, regardless. A 2 second penalty for barely leaving a scratch on someone's fender is awful when you're just trying to unwind.

The super dirty drivers knew how to game the old system, anyway, in my experience.

 

[Norrin Radd]

It's like hockey fights. It's self policing at its finest. Refs handing out penalties is fine but nothing like a bloody nose to rethink what you did. And it lets the aggression out so both teams can get back to playing the actual game.

Not that I will ever retaliate. It's just not my style. But I get it.

I much prefer this new penalty system, regardless. A 2 second penalty for barely leaving a scratch on someone's fender is awful when you're just trying to unwind.

The super dirty drivers knew how to game the old system, anyway, in my experience.

Yes there will always be people who game the system, but now it's often just dodgems and the guy with the biggest elbows wins. True you get some really good games in there and these aren't spoiled by most of the stupid pens (they still happen, just far less often). So are the few better games enough compensation for most games being a barging contest? IMO no, but it's going to be different at different levels. I find if you drop down to C it's actually better than at B. No idea what A and A+ are like, watched a few youtubers and it looks pretty bad up there too, obviously they make excuses for most of their bad moves and many of their fellow elite. But watching the actual clean ones isn't much different, people are abusing the fact that cars can be used for steering assistance.

 

[NevilleNobody]

It's weird how it has swung so hard the other way, something in the middle would be good.

 

[Norrin Radd]

It's weird how it has swung so hard the other way, something in the middle would be good.

Still think a far harsher pen sys is the only way to go. OH but a better one too.

 

[OJBrit]

It's weird how it has swung so hard the other way, something in the middle would be good.

Agreed. There's no happy medium.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

It's weird how it has swung so hard the other way, something in the middle would be good.

That's unfortunately the way they do it at PD. The underlying mechanisms seems to be broken so the only thing they can do is stuff like this

 

[O604]

That's unfortunately the way they do it at PD. The underlying mechanisms seems to be broken so the only thing they can do is stuff like this

In my opinion I wouldn't say broken. I'd say it was limited.

Judging a multiple car incident while taking into account what each player is seeing and how they react + lag is a problem which needs technology beyond this version. If it does happen it will be beyond real life and that technology could very well be used to determine fault in real road accidents. Obviously we're not there yet.

 

[Groundfish]

Seems to me they adjust the sensitivity of contact required to trigger sr down or penalty but not a heck of a lot else. We’ve had “inside car always wins”
“Slightest touch during a pass gives a pen”
“There are no pens”
“touch a car and it hits wall it’s your fault no matter what”
“Car off track same”

Seems to me they never really work on the scoring system fundamentally to give weight to performance over time.
Sr down IMMEDIATely lowers your rank.
There’s really no long term behavior aspect of scoring.
They could do that, easily enough.
They expanded the max dr you can get why not sr also?
Long term average SR has no impact right now which sucks.
To me a bad race or 2 shouldn’t reset my entire rating that’s not a reflection of how I race overall.
I think if you were able to gain sr to a point, but no higher UNLESS it stayed high for some amount say 10-20 races.
So, if you stayed high sr for the number of races required you unlock a higher sr possible.
If you are at these tiers that are higher then it would become harder for you to drop in a single catastrophic race.
Also add a WARNING before just totally wiping out the players SR.
Like “race control message-one more incident in this race you will drop a full letter” or something...

These are just ideas but the concept I would like to see them work with is adjusting the scoring instead of just toggling the system switch off and on like it seems they’ve been doing the last 18 months.

When you’ve got ratings going up and down so much the matching can never be good.

I think an ideal system would provide clean drivers separation from random nitwits.

Also from what I’ve seen overall it’s not as bad as people make it out to be, re assigning blame, it’s the scoring that needs work too

 

[ASH32]

I don't think this new version of the penalty system is any worse (it's not better either), it's just different and still very silly.



and



Car going sideways and bumping you as you go by can still be your fault. Driver intentionally running you off can still be no penalty and full on ram is now the same penalty as any other incident. The racing is dirtier but penalties for small bumps are mostly gone. It can only give 2 and 3 second penalties for contact now though.

 

[djidane57]

problem is autopolis must be the track with the most opportunities for bumping/shoving people off , combining this with the slowest race car category you have a perfect recipe for some Gran Trollismo

 

[ASH32]

problem is autopolis must be the track with the most opportunities for bumping/shoving people off , combining this with the slowest race car category you have a perfect recipe for some Gran Trollismo

Yes you are probably right. With this combo there isn't one corner on the track where you can't shove it down the inside regardless and use another car as a brake and by doing so kick off some carnage. This likely means people are already wound up from previous races and then start giving it back to anyone they come across, whether you've done it to them first or not.

At least some dirty drivers are predictable and you can pretend to overtake them around the outside and then back off and watch them go way off track and there's no run-off to save them.

 

[Pennyb12000]

May be a black flag system for disqualification for multiple incidents?
This whole problem must be being looked at by PD. Maybe the minor tinkering is going to continue untill gt7 hits the shelves.
If gt7 is going to be a driving simulator as opposed to where we are now, it has to?
Whilst on the subject of flags, I was taken out by a car coming back onto the track at the left hand corner, interlagos, last week. At the time I thought unfairly. When I replayed the race the yellow flag was clear to see. I took a chance and it backfired. I could have slowed, and maybe missed the car re-entering the track.
What is the rule for yellow in GTS, if I slow and the car behind overtakes it's a penalty for them?

 

[RacingGrandpa]

What is the rule for yellow in GTS, if I slow and the car behind overtakes it's a penalty for them?

Yes, it's supposed to be.

 

[OJBrit]

What is the rule for yellow in GTS, if I slow and the car behind overtakes it's a penalty for them?

For ages, sweet FA. They might as well have not had them. But since the penalty change I have seen increasing reports of yellow flag penalties. So it is still who knows?

 

[BaareCZ]

Holy 🤬 🤬. This game is a circus now. Every race nothing but clowns. Especially this week at Autopolis. Doesn't matter what DR/SR, just clowns everywhere. No, it does matter actually. The higher the DR/SR, the more clowns. I haven't had a race where someone would actually take the time and effort to make a clean overtake since the update. Well done, PD. This may very well be the final nail for me.

 

[hardvibes]

The penalty system really has become a joke. At least before, every small contact was penalized. Now it isn't, it's random, unjustified, and makes you wonder what the hell have PD done to the system.

We're back on Red Bull Ring and:
- people keep pushing me on the dirt (making me lose like 10 places) and nobody's getting penalized
- people spin me out and nobody's getting penalized
- people take the inside of the corner hitting my car and nobody's penalized
but....but....
- I barely touch someone and "I" get 1 to 3 seconds penalty
- I get brake checked 1km before the brake zone and "I" get 1 to 3 seconds penalty.

Lovely.
Thank you PD. GT7 (and this Penalty System) can't come any sooner

 

[RacingGrandpa]

The penalty system really has become a joke. At least before, every small contact was penalized. Now it isn't, it's random, unjustified, and makes you wonder what the hell have PD done to the system.

We're back on Red Bull Ring and:
- people keep pushing me on the dirt (making me lose like 10 places) and nobody's getting penalized
- people spin me out and nobody's getting penalized
- people take the inside of the corner hitting my car and nobody's penalized
but....but....
- I barely touch someone and "I" get 1 to 3 seconds penalty
- I get brake checked 1km before the brake zone and "I" get 1 to 3 seconds penalty.

Lovely.
Thank you PD. GT7 (and this Penalty System) can't come any sooner

Do you really think the penalry system in GT7 will be better?

 

[hardvibes]

Do you really think the penalry system in GT7 will be better?

I was being sarcastic.

 

[NAXEHT]

The penalty system really has become a joke. At least before, every small contact was penalized. Now it isn't, it's random, unjustified, and makes you wonder what the hell have PD done to the system.

We're back on Red Bull Ring and:
- people keep pushing me on the dirt (making me lose like 10 places) and nobody's getting penalized
- people spin me out and nobody's getting penalized
- people take the inside of the corner hitting my car and nobody's penalized
but....but....
- I barely touch someone and "I" get 1 to 3 seconds penalty
- I get brake checked 1km before the brake zone and "I" get 1 to 3 seconds penalty.

Lovely.
Thank you PD. GT7 (and this Penalty System) can't come any sooner

Let me come with a contrasting experience after having done about 80 - 90 races on Dragon Trail Seaside II the past week.

I did start most of the races on pole and I raced with fairly familiar faces so what I’m saying should be taken with a pinch of salt, I suppose. But still. Had the penalty system been the previous one my wonderful experience of the past week at Seaside II would’ve been way worse, considering how often that one would give you race breaking penalties for barely touching the car you’re side by side with (used to be quite frequently interpreted as “colliding with another car” — 2 sec).

There were very small touches here and there but everyone got by unscathed, which I think is great. My one complaint related in this case specifically to Seaside II would be getting a 0,5 sec penalty for avoiding track limits when having crashed in the chicane of death, trying to take evasive action for the cars coming up fast behind. That was pretty poor (I feel the system should be able to distinguish if you’re cutting or not depending on your speed there), but aside from that I’ve no complaints.

The dude in the gif is a clown.

 

[Mc_Yavel]

Hey guys! Long time no see. I'm still playing the game and lurking the forum.

Just want to share my tought on the revised penalty system. I have a feeling they just revert to an older system the one completely off of last year. It's far from perfect but it's a nice welcome compared to the one where every touch give a penalty to the wrong driver. I have been reset 4 times since September compared to 0 time since launch .

But now it's a different game, still frustating at time and I have to get my elbow out more. It' not something I'm good or like to do and I always give the other car the benefit of doubt.

Like in this video, I get spun out of last corner of last lap (of course). But watching the replay before the next race, I think it was a genuine mistake. The next race I did not take revenge event if the occasion showed itself a couple of time.



But sometimes it's too obvious to let them go with it.



And the sleeping penality system has brought back the worst dirty driver of them all. @Sven Jurgens know him really well. Seeing him in my races this week I knew we were in for a wild ride.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Last time the races eventually (mostly) cleaned up (without penalties) since punts were free. People misbehaving could count on getting punted off the track sooner or later. This time, contact from behind where someone loses a position still yields a penalty. All it does is discourage self policing by the community

Shove fest sigh. MS broke FS2020 in last week's patch, but I rather fly at 2 fps than get in that mess (unless it's the Nord of course )

 

[OJBrit]

Before the system punished hard and fair racers by being too strict. Now this system punishes those same players without punishing the perpetrators by being too soft.
It needed the happy medium.

 

[Mc_Yavel]

Last time the races eventually (mostly) cleaned up (without penalties) since punts were free. People misbehaving could count on getting punted off the track sooner or later. This time, contact from behind where someone loses a position still yields a penalty. All it does is discourage self policing by the community

Shove fest sigh. MS broke FS2020 in last week's patch, but I rather fly at 2 fps than get in that mess (unless it's the Nord of course )

The best thing to even a hit from dirty driver is sidesweeping them off. Of course you have to get the inside first. Contact free race already seem a thing of the past. Althought, this morning someone bump me off track by accident in a fair battle and he slowed down and give me back the position.

Before the system punished hard and fair racers by being too strict. Now this system punishes those same players without punishing the perpetrators by being too soft.
It needed the happy medium.

At least now people are mad because of another driver instead of being mad at PD for a stupid undeserved penality and going on a rampage. I've been reset by a guy who was an expert at gaming the system. Each time I tried to overtake from inside or outside, he knew exactly what to do to trigger a penality to me.

I dont defend PD with their poor system which is in no way better than the last one but I welcome the change.

 

[Groundfish]

At least now people are mad because of another driver instead of being mad at PD for a stupid undeserved penality and going on a rampage. I've been reset by a guy who was an expert at gaming the system. Each time I tried to overtake from inside or outside, he knew exactly what to do to trigger a penality to me.

In the races I’ve done since the update the game has been much more fun to play.
I think letting the players settle things is better than making them angry for scraping a side mirror and getting a 3 second penalty, or worse the guy ahead doing that.

I welcome the change.

Me too! Great post. Good seeing you out there at Autopolis last night too!
I think in those fast rooms things work better by letting players play a little vs making penalties over nothing.

 

[Deni323]

GT Sport = Wreckfest

Wreckfest has better damage model

Both don't have penalty system

 

[SCRABSTER]

Started playing in December and was surprised at how clean the racing was,really enjoyed it. Now it is bumper cars, the fixation on rankings seems to have the tail wagging the dog

 

[newb1017]

The track limit penalty zone at turn 1 on Red Bull is pretty inconsistent. I have been all over the red at times this week and have both received penalties and not received penalties. And when I say "all over" I mean two full car widths inside the red... This is regardless of whether I was forced off or went off on my own.

The long yellow curb is also odd. I have had my inside tires well to the right of it and got a penalty, and I have hit the exact same spot only to actually be riding the yellow curb with my inside tires, and was able to dodge a penalty??? Anyone else notice how inconsistent this spot is.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

The track limit penalty zone at turn 1 on Red Bull is pretty inconsistent. I have been all over the red at times this week and have both received penalties and not received penalties. And when I say "all over" I mean two full car widths inside the red... This is regardless of whether I was forced off or went off on my own.

The long yellow curb is also odd. I have had my inside tires well to the right of it and got a penalty, and I have hit the exact same spot only to actually be riding the yellow curb with my inside tires, and was able to dodge a penalty??? Anyone else notice how inconsistent this spot is.

It depends on your speed. If you run wide and lift so you doesn't gain time yoi get no penalties

 

[Neroglia]

The blind spot for the current penalty system is side bumps. Is like the Red Bull Ring first corner, there is never a penalty for someone who goes too fast on the inside and bump someone out on the outside on the racing line. Or the sandtrap sections in sector 2. You need to be actively steering at them for penalty to count. The other thing that annoys me a lot is that people turn into people unnecessarily on straights; I remember these might get penalties now even if the victim spins out you might not get anything because is side on. It deals with bumps at the back well enough.

I think part of the problem is that S ranking is not hard to achieve. I had a race in C/S where the guy took out 2nd and 3rd (myself) in one corner in a very deliberate way as I had 2 different race with the driver in question in the previous race that did that to a guy in front. Carry a bit too much speed that you go wide, bump cars in front, no problem. In this incident, they hit the front of me and the back of 2nd, we were very close, and spun both of us out into the sand. Whereas in the previous, they just stayed wide after slide bumping, and force the victim into the gravel. They had a S rating, but look at this:

That's a S driver. Sure, people may have occasional really bad day and their SR rating suffer for it. But when you dip so deeply into the Cs and Ds of SR, you shouldn't be classified the same as someone who manage to hold S rating for a weeks worth of login. I am no angel as you can see:

No prize for spotting at which day I quit the game in a fit of rage. But someone who has managed to maintain a S or at least A rating for a while shouldn't be racing with people who occasionally ends at S rating; because they are not the same in "true" sportsmanship. They should cap the rise in SR rating per day or that your SR rating is in reality the average of your last 10 days/races so that it takes longer to reap the reward of racing with other S drivers. It should be a privileged that is earned to race with clean drivers on a consistent basis.


Just my experience after coming back to GTS. I think the less harsh penalty system is alright with fair drivers as I was kind of pissed at the older harsh system where everything seemingly a penalty so I kind of got sick of the game, I actually struggled to maintain a good SR rating in the past. I am a lesser driver now and manage to get SR up high without too much issue.

 

[Haitauer]

It seems they are missing the data to compare car orientation/trajectory to racingline/track direction. Most of the cases where penalty is misplaced or missing the game just doesnt which car actually has a realistic line to go through the corner cleanly. Many times the driver inside even straigtens steering mid corner to hit the outside car, but this might as well be controller players wiggling the stick. Is there maybe difference in these cases between pad/wheel users penalties? If you straigten the steering wheel mid corner like that you are surely doing it on purpose, but the game might give some slack to pad user thinking its controller limitation. Same goes with over/understeering car - your steering angle might not represent the direction of the momentum of the car at the time of impact, and if the penalty is given according to steering angle not according to actual vector of the car, you might get a penalty by just fighting understeer while someone hits you from inside.