PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 442,220 views
- 229
- England
The penalty system before and after the change is still not fit for purpose as it does nothing to deter dirty driving. As it stands now dirty driving seems to be the order of the day which is making me not want to race online.
The only small absolute miniscule positive I can draw from how things are now it that I am not being double punished because of others dirty driving. Sure I am still being punted or driven off the track but at least if I clip another innocent when that happens I am not picking up or giving them a penalty because of someone elses actions.
There needs to be a deterrent and that just is not a thing in the game right now. SR / DR loss is clearly not doing anything. Of the ideas I have seen here the one I think would work best is the ghosting one mentioned by Sven Jurgens the other day.
The only person who suffers the dirty driving is the person trying to do it while everyone else can go on with their race. Even if it's only extended to DR C & D that would be a huge improvement as you would have to learn to race cleanly to progress in the game. So if / when you do make it higher you can have a reasonable expectation of folks racing cleaner as that is what they would have learned to progress.
Trust me you do not want to be racing DR: D right now. I have seen cleaner races in Wreckfest!
The only small absolute miniscule positive I can draw from how things are now it that I am not being double punished because of others dirty driving. Sure I am still being punted or driven off the track but at least if I clip another innocent when that happens I am not picking up or giving them a penalty because of someone elses actions.
There needs to be a deterrent and that just is not a thing in the game right now. SR / DR loss is clearly not doing anything. Of the ideas I have seen here the one I think would work best is the ghosting one mentioned by Sven Jurgens the other day.
The only person who suffers the dirty driving is the person trying to do it while everyone else can go on with their race. Even if it's only extended to DR C & D that would be a huge improvement as you would have to learn to race cleanly to progress in the game. So if / when you do make it higher you can have a reasonable expectation of folks racing cleaner as that is what they would have learned to progress.
Trust me you do not want to be racing DR: D right now. I have seen cleaner races in Wreckfest!
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It went both ways and it was really the second week that races 'cleaned' up. People caught on that if they drove dirty, revenge was also free. Thus wronging someone brought an immediate risk to get punted off a couple corners later.
However you also had the bad drivers 'stuck' in SR.S, those that simply don't care and want to play wreckfest, taking full advantage of the situation.
Races got cleaner also because matchmaking got better, well better than it is with random SR/DR. Since everyone was SR.S and no more DR resets, matching had both a bigger pool to select on DR (not split up by SR) and DR started to reflect people's driving skill again (good or bad). Thus people were better matched on their speed. In the high DR rooms that meant, fast drivers together that know how to control their car and concentrate more on racing fast instead of winning dirty. But you still had to deal with the fast and dirty. Luck of the draw and if you're not that fast, you're stuck with wreckfast.
- 4,962
- Nelson, England
- GTP_ASH32
Yes I had a race earlier where one driver seemed to have no clue or care where other cars were and ended up running me off, later on I caught back up but they were doing it again after T1 so I bumped them near their rear right tyre to basically send a message that I was there, they responded by sideswiping me off the track. So going into T2 I just ran into them on purpose to push them wide and overtook them and the game did nothing about that either, I ended up with the clean race bonus, it's stupid now. 
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- 1,174
- Phoenix, AZ
- MonyB
Junkman55
(Banned)
- 470
- United States
If there is no change in position coming out of a turn from a tap or rubbing going into the turn , why would you think a penalty is needed . The dirty Driver is the guy who sends you off the track or into others and getting the gain of position . The driver who is picking his nose has missed his or your breaking strategy is not a dirty driver it’s called racing.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Dirty blocking, brake checking, not leaving room, plenty reasons to give a penalty without a change in position occurring.
And if you miss your braking point because you were picking your nose, you still deserve a penalty. Don't pick and drive!
The most frustrating part is that the game knows bad/wrong behavior. Ghosting in D/E works to prevent punts and side swipes. Yet in higher SR, the penalty system is oblivious to what the ghosting system correctly picks up on in D/E. It must be from two different teams that somehow have never met.
- 4,962
- Nelson, England
- GTP_ASH32
What @Sven Jurgens said plus it lets you push someone off and overtake them now anyway, just as long as you don't push them off too far.
- 882
- United Kingdom
BS SR Downs have disappeared, a welcome change although this is the type of driving brought along with it. Several in the chat called him out and it looked justified. He finished with a blue S along with everyone else. An example among his other antics of running or pushing drivers off:
It's one extreme or the other; either too lenient or strict without an in-between and it will probably continue this way until GT7 releases. Shared fault is usually an answer if we're continuously tweaking for years with little to no improvement, almost all racing sim developers agree.
It will become worse as time goes by once everyone reaches SR S and has learnt the arcade style driving the system now allows. If next week is no improvement, I'll probably restrict GTS to league racing and return to Assetto Corsa, at least the penalty and player rating system in that game is logical.
It's one extreme or the other; either too lenient or strict without an in-between and it will probably continue this way until GT7 releases. Shared fault is usually an answer if we're continuously tweaking for years with little to no improvement, almost all racing sim developers agree.
It will become worse as time goes by once everyone reaches SR S and has learnt the arcade style driving the system now allows. If next week is no improvement, I'll probably restrict GTS to league racing and return to Assetto Corsa, at least the penalty and player rating system in that game is logical.
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- 5,662
- Ulricehamn
Last time they turned the penalties off it was a week of chaos, then it became some of the cleanest racing I have had in GTS. When the clean drivers started to work together and police the dirty ones and they in turn realized that they where at risk if they played dirty it all became close, hard but mostly fair racing.
Junkman55
(Banned)
- 470
- United States
The way of your thinking is if a real driver is front of you needs to let you pass like a AI computer generate driver. You need to out drive him wait for him to make a mistake then you make clean pass that’s the way it works in a race. If a driver is in front of you is not suppose make it easy for you to pass only needs to give way only to avoid contact as well for you to do the same .
If you take the word dirty out of blocking, brake checking and not leaving room . That sounds like racing.
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- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
- 4,962
- Nelson, England
- GTP_ASH32
If it only gave SR- when you did dirty things it would be better than this, don't know why that has to be turned up and down at the same time as the penalty system either.
As it is, not only can you intentionally do dirty things to get ahead without a time punishment, you actually get rewarded with a clean race bonus too and now everyone will finish and stay at SR99 if they don't get too many track limit penalties or drive without using the brake at all.
The only plus is soon everyone will start to intentionally take out the obvious dirty drivers, as it's easy to do it without penalty and more people will discover this. Then I'll be able to drive clean again as I'll just wait for all the fighting to thin out the cars instead of the penalties, as was the case before.
As it is, not only can you intentionally do dirty things to get ahead without a time punishment, you actually get rewarded with a clean race bonus too and now everyone will finish and stay at SR99 if they don't get too many track limit penalties or drive without using the brake at all.
The only plus is soon everyone will start to intentionally take out the obvious dirty drivers, as it's easy to do it without penalty and more people will discover this. Then I'll be able to drive clean again as I'll just wait for all the fighting to thin out the cars instead of the penalties, as was the case before.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
it's stupid now.
Hahaha so true!
This game doesn’t know what it’s trying to be anymore.
I’ve been trying to play but it’s just so arcade when guys smash you at apex in a hairpin from over a second back.
There’s nothing you can do except join in the wreckfest, or move to other games, unless you are maybe top 50-75 players on the server and it’s literally top split FIA, it’s a joke like this with so much contact being allowed.
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- 1,663
- United Kingdom
I don’t see why they can’t leave pens “soft” and keep the Sr system “strict”.
The penalty system will only work on top of a robust Sr system.
They should quit trying to fix the penalty system and actually make a credible Sr system. That way the penalty system is largely irrelevant and the guys that want to play bumper cars can do so with others that want to do the same, whilst also allowing us to race clean with other clean drivers.
It’s obvious to see that surely!!!
Edit- All they have to do is stretch SR to 0-999 and keep it just moderately strict. Then just turn pens right down and let everyone find their “natural Sr” level.
It has been very nice not picking up bs penalties that everyone knows are unjustified though 👍
The penalty system will only work on top of a robust Sr system.
They should quit trying to fix the penalty system and actually make a credible Sr system. That way the penalty system is largely irrelevant and the guys that want to play bumper cars can do so with others that want to do the same, whilst also allowing us to race clean with other clean drivers.
It’s obvious to see that surely!!!
Edit- All they have to do is stretch SR to 0-999 and keep it just moderately strict. Then just turn pens right down and let everyone find their “natural Sr” level.
It has been very nice not picking up bs penalties that everyone knows are unjustified though 👍
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- 5,662
- Ulricehamn
- 882
- United Kingdom
I think you may have nailed it, it's an identity crisis.
Sure, with a lenient system, you can take out revenge without consequence to police a lobby but that's Wreckfest and no longer a serious racing sim. It's not the game experience I want or expect. Since when is a race driver a steward or one to bring down judgement onto someone else.
Racing at the World Tour events promoting this game is what PD should be striving to set an example of with this system but that's not happening. I'm sure Kaz could not say with a straight face that this is the kind of racing he wants to see in his game but well, nothing else seems to matter except for top split FIA, right.
- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Junkman55
(Banned)
- 470
- United States
Do you really think the faster driver always wins in the real world of racing . It’s the smart driver using everything his race car has and his driving that get him the checker flag. That why rookies move up in the real world of racing and It is no different in online racing, In less You are gaming.
- 1,072
- Behind you
Generally slowing a faster car is just going to lose you places as rather than using him to get a little extra pace your letting those behind catch up making it harder to keep your position. Much better to let 1 guy past than fight 5 for a position. Too many players don't think of the big picture and don't pay any attention to what those around them are doing with pit stops, they lose out and unfortunately they make others lose out too. Especially if your not close to being the fastest you need to drive smart.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Wise words, especially with pit stops involved. Let the faster car on fresher tires by, stick to his draft to make your tires last a bit longer before pitting your self. Then you have lost no pace, and have fresher tires at the end. So many people just block, creating a traffic jam behind them which usually ends in chaos in this game.
And yep, even without pit stops, better to draft than block. If it's the final lap then it makes sense to make things difficult for anyone drafting behind. And that's where experience comes in, recognize who is faster and who just thinks they're faster due to drafting. You don't want someone draft passing you to become the blocker that's holding you up. However if equally fast, then you can help each other to stay ahead and catch up to cars in front. Swapping places on the straights. Recognize who is faster in what corners to help each other the best way. Before you know it you're moving up to the front.
However some people only think in terms off, I started in front of you, therefore you cannot pass. And if you pass, I'll dive bomb take the position back.
- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Sweet zombie Jesus, what on Earth is the disconnect this time?
No, real racing drivers don't just let other drivers past. They also don't block, because blocking is banned, dangerous, and will get you removed from a race and banned from a series.
There is, shockingly another option between conceding literally every attempt at a pass and veering madly across the circuit side-to-side to block any attempt at it. This other option is called racing.
- 2,777
- New Plymouth
Honestly, there is a difference between blocking and defense. Blocking involves swerving directly in front of me when I have a fast run, but only doing so at the last second so I have no chance at avoiding contact. The fantastic swerving all over the straight to prevent you from picking a line. Defense means 'parking' your car in a STEADY position that forces the passing car to either give up or pull it off by taking the normally slower line. Not leaving room for the other car and pushing them wide on exit is also a common dirty tactic that many people view as "defensive" driving. But pushing the other car off track after they are alongside is dirty.
For example, I just had a race this morning with a driver I both love and hate to race at the same time. They are slightly slower than me overall, but they are insanely steady and pinpoint with their pace and defensive lines. It is near impossible to time the racing moves to get by them when they are on their game. But they are clean. If I am getting a run on them down the main straight they move to the inner line, leaving not enough room for a car on the inside, but otherwise making me take the hard move. They will exit the turn leaving me exactly a cars width on the outside but mostly ending my run. If we're heading into back and forth turns like a chicane or esses, they take the line that leads to the best exit at the end, forcing me off line. Super clean, super smooth, very tactical and utterly frustrating. But knowing that I know they won't wreck me, they won't swerve last second to change lines under braking and they won't brake check on the exit of a turn. I still have to use every bit of skill I have to get by them.
And the respect from me is huge with that because I want to make sure I get them cleanly as well. Someone swerving in front of me at the last second, brake checking or refusing to accelerate out of turns will not get the same respect. In order to pass them back today I had to set them up over 3 laps, taking a wider line at turn 1 and getting a huge run on them but not passing as I couldn't get by without pushing them wide. Finally on the last lap they went to block my outside line as I had been getting big runs on them there and I was much closer this time. I took my normal line through the inside this time and made it by clean. They also didnt turn in on me or swerve inside to block me at the last second. That would have been the dirty blocking move we are talking about.
For example, I just had a race this morning with a driver I both love and hate to race at the same time. They are slightly slower than me overall, but they are insanely steady and pinpoint with their pace and defensive lines. It is near impossible to time the racing moves to get by them when they are on their game. But they are clean. If I am getting a run on them down the main straight they move to the inner line, leaving not enough room for a car on the inside, but otherwise making me take the hard move. They will exit the turn leaving me exactly a cars width on the outside but mostly ending my run. If we're heading into back and forth turns like a chicane or esses, they take the line that leads to the best exit at the end, forcing me off line. Super clean, super smooth, very tactical and utterly frustrating. But knowing that I know they won't wreck me, they won't swerve last second to change lines under braking and they won't brake check on the exit of a turn. I still have to use every bit of skill I have to get by them.
And the respect from me is huge with that because I want to make sure I get them cleanly as well. Someone swerving in front of me at the last second, brake checking or refusing to accelerate out of turns will not get the same respect. In order to pass them back today I had to set them up over 3 laps, taking a wider line at turn 1 and getting a huge run on them but not passing as I couldn't get by without pushing them wide. Finally on the last lap they went to block my outside line as I had been getting big runs on them there and I was much closer this time. I took my normal line through the inside this time and made it by clean. They also didnt turn in on me or swerve inside to block me at the last second. That would have been the dirty blocking move we are talking about.
Junkman55
(Banned)
- 470
- United States
Blocking or defend the best line going into a turn is not ban. It is swerving switching line is dangerous and reckless even on the public highways swerving between lanes it not aloud. I have never seen a race where competition move over to let a driver who thinks he is faster pass unchallenged.
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- 2,777
- New Plymouth
I have, it happens more than you think, usually as a tactical move, even in NASCAR. People on different strategies will usually make the best of what they have, but they have spotters, engineers and tacticians in their ears. We have to make that call ourselves in the heat of the moment.
We have had split strategy races many times where you can either pit, or attempt the no stop. If I was going for the no stop there was often the time I would see someone coming behind quickly and I just signal them by. If course I instantly locked into their slipstream to get free speed from them while keeping to my separate strategy. Fighting them would have cost us both time and run a chance of ruining my strategy. The goal is the fastest overall time. But there is definitely a time to fight versus a time to be tactical.
In this weeks FIA race I let a couple drivers by without a fight as they were on faster tires and were pushing really hard. I kept to my tactic of racing the track. I passed those people near the end of the race as they fought for every spot and against everyone the whole race. Eating their tires, meaning my strategy and letting them by paid off as I could race and push then when they were just barely hanging on.
- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Blocking is not defending. Defending is defending, blocking is blocking, and blocking is banned in most motorsport...
... and this was pointed out to you right back at the start.
Your response was to ignore the word "dirty".
This is now the third time where you've straight up ignored what other people are telling you and argued some bizarre point either contrary to or unrelated to what the conversation is. Either English isn't your first language or you're trolling.
Junkman55
(Banned)
- 470
- United States
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_f..._Passing_Guidelines_Rev_070920.pdf?1594330895
This is a good place to start making us better drivers in online racing.
This is a good place to start making us better drivers in online racing.
- 5,662
- Ulricehamn
