PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 442,220 views
- 2,343
- UK
- TPC_Watto
The reason I said that is because I've seen way too many races being ruined by unnecessary penalties, over and above races ruined by dirty drivers.
There will always be dirty drivers whatever penalty system is or isn't in place but for the most part FIA races are much cleaner than daily races, particularly the carnage that is Daily Race A.
Just my own observations and for sure I may regret my words
- 1,072
- Behind you
Race C today, serve pen at PZ1 and guy behind, pissed cos I overtook him, drives straight into the back of me and I get a pen for that. I'm fully accelerating and get hit from behind yet it's my fault.
- 3,262
- Canada
5 races in and still not one SR red at the end of the race. Thats best part of 100 drivers, not one SR red.
Garbage.
Edit....
See this is what i knew would happen. I am P2, P3 pushes past me on lap 12, as in fully pushes my car off my line. In doing so cops 0.4 sec for track infringement. I repass.
Last lap, second last corner approaching, I take inside, he forces through on inside pushing me left over the rumble strip and takes second, no penalty.
Could see this coming, its going to be bedlam.
Garbage.
Edit....
See this is what i knew would happen. I am P2, P3 pushes past me on lap 12, as in fully pushes my car off my line. In doing so cops 0.4 sec for track infringement. I repass.
Last lap, second last corner approaching, I take inside, he forces through on inside pushing me left over the rumble strip and takes second, no penalty.
Could see this coming, its going to be bedlam.
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- 3,262
- Canada
Dp
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- 2
- United Kingdom
First ever post on this forum, and I must say this penalty system is bad, rb ring, lap 1 turn 2,
Some guy comes plowing in setting off a chain event of cars just hitting other cars and he got nothing! Same guy later was just pushing everyone off and Then it just became a free for all! Everyone was pushing people off! I would expect that in a d/e lobby but it was a b/s lobby! I think I’m annoyed because I was so close to getting up to a/s but in that race I finished last
Some guy comes plowing in setting off a chain event of cars just hitting other cars and he got nothing! Same guy later was just pushing everyone off and Then it just became a free for all! Everyone was pushing people off! I would expect that in a d/e lobby but it was a b/s lobby! I think I’m annoyed because I was so close to getting up to a/s but in that race I finished last
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- 2,777
- New Plymouth
- 2
- United Kingdom
That video there pretty much sums up every race iv had so far!
in the update it said something along the lines of “minor contact won’t be penalised” erm well flying in to the back of cars at 100+ mph is not minor contact! That’s a full on 10yo yeeting every poor sole in front off on to the grass! Which now has become the norm, to many times Iv ran side by side and then they start coming over on me, granted Iv been doing this long enough to know at that point I should back off and wait, but now the problem is that if you back off then the car behind you will dive bomb you and yeet you off at the next turn!
I had one guy who I was side by side with actually back off and then drove his car into me left rear and pit manoeuvre me off the road! As I spun he carried on with no penalty!
in my honest opinion I would actually like it to be to strict then this! At least before people avoided contact at all costs.
race wins aren't decided by who has the best skill now! It’s who is will to use there bumpers!
in the update it said something along the lines of “minor contact won’t be penalised” erm well flying in to the back of cars at 100+ mph is not minor contact! That’s a full on 10yo yeeting every poor sole in front off on to the grass! Which now has become the norm, to many times Iv ran side by side and then they start coming over on me, granted Iv been doing this long enough to know at that point I should back off and wait, but now the problem is that if you back off then the car behind you will dive bomb you and yeet you off at the next turn!
I had one guy who I was side by side with actually back off and then drove his car into me left rear and pit manoeuvre me off the road! As I spun he carried on with no penalty!
in my honest opinion I would actually like it to be to strict then this! At least before people avoided contact at all costs.
race wins aren't decided by who has the best skill now! It’s who is will to use there bumpers!
- 11,200
- Sweden
- eran0004
So, what’s the best practice when it comes to penalty systems in racing games? Should we all race in ghost mode, or is there some better option?
It seems to me like the root of the problem is a lack of driver skill combined with the expectation of having an experience similar to high level motorsports.
Perhaps the system should change so that the less skilled drivers are restricted to low power N-class races until they have developed the skill and sportsmanship to handle more powerful cars.
It seems to me like the root of the problem is a lack of driver skill combined with the expectation of having an experience similar to high level motorsports.
Perhaps the system should change so that the less skilled drivers are restricted to low power N-class races until they have developed the skill and sportsmanship to handle more powerful cars.
- 153
- Dublin
- ii_Biggles_ii
The 1st real test will be in the Nations Cup later, it one thing losing a few places in the daily races but the FIA races is a different story. A few days in to the update there are lots of drivers who are taking advantage of it in the wrong way and unfortunately everyone will start fighting back so it will not be a good ending.
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- 1,072
- Behind you
Well what would that solve? If the penalty system doesn't punish wrong behaviour they don't learn. Take pit exits, usually at Monza (other places too) people exit the pits and take the racing line regardless of traffic, now if you point this out to people they don't understand. They didn't get a penalty so they didn't do anything wrong. So without a system in place that helps to teach people the right way to drive it's purely a punishment system. As such nothing will ever be perfect so they should just make it that all drivers get penalised for all contact over say 10 mph difference. Track limits need to be treated the same as these are abused for a huge advantage.
- 5,662
- Ulricehamn
I agree, as incompetent as the Penalty System is in assigning blame shared fault is the only way forward. It isn't fair but it probably will stop the dirty driver in most cases and teach people to avoid contact. So no penalties if the speed difference is below 10 mph, and shared fault above.
- 120
- Essex, UK
I havent been playing the game for a long time, what I see of the penalty system, if you get one your race is over. Some seem to be totally random and unjust, but any collision is better to avoid (if you can) rather than an off. Just like really driving a car, sometimes its better to simply let someone pass and let them hassle the car in front.
Edit - Perhaps a penalty system where all penalties have to be taken within xx seconds of recieving one. I realise this will have more problems with ghosting cars.
Edit - Perhaps a penalty system where all penalties have to be taken within xx seconds of recieving one. I realise this will have more problems with ghosting cars.
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- 1,072
- Behind you
No we need the zones, it would be nice if the zones were consistent though. Take N24 for an extreme example a 1 sec pen at the start cost you lets say 1 sec, but think it's actually less. Now if you get a 1 sec in any of the next 6 mins of racing it will cost you 3 secs roughly depending on class. Pens should be roughly the same no matter the track and especially the zones per track.
- 11,200
- Sweden
- eran0004
It gives them an incentive to improve their skill, as they would otherwise be stuck racing low power N-class cars.
It also keeps them away from cars that they can’t handle and races that they shouldn’t be in.
- 1,072
- Behind you
But with the current penalty system they would just improve their SR without learning anything, it's not people driving cars that are too powerful that's the problem it's people driving without any knowledge. A decent pen system would solve all problems, I just don't think it's feasible. Stopping people driving the cars they want to drive would also make people quit and that's never a good idea.
- 5,662
- Ulricehamn
The game takes for granted that the people playing are interested in motorsport and understand the rules, but all the games have no clue and only learn they do something wrong when they are penalised for it.
- 1,072
- Behind you
To be honest even people who are into motorsport don't always agree what the rules actually mean so what chance has someone just playing a game? It isn't players fault for not knowing the rules, PD could do much more than making people "play" 2 videos. In previous games you had to get licences to do races, why don't they have this here? Win the race without making contact and you get to play online with that class. Proper pit procedures before being allowed in races with stops. Simple easy classes so they at least understand the rules.
- 11,200
- Sweden
- eran0004
If they manage to improve their SR then they have learned.
The FIA events is a competition after all, it’s not unreasonable to demand a certain skill level. They can drive whatever car they want in any other part of the game.
It’s also easier to handle a low powered car if you are inexperienced, it’s the best place to start learning.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
We've talked about solutions a lot throughout this thread. The root of the problem is the SR system itself. The 1-99 scale and the way SR is gained and lost simply cannot provide a working system no matter what penalty system is attached. PD is tweaking a broken system that is destined to fail no matter what they do because the underlying premises it works on are simply wrong.
First go back to what you want to achieve with the SR system. The purpose of it is to get people with the same driving style matched together. In this case style refers to sportmanship, or more specifically, contact during racing. You have the don't touch my car crowd, the rubbing is racing crowd all the way down to destruction derby crowd.
It's actually a very easy to solve problem if you go at it from a statistical viewpoint. Measure the ratio between contact and time driving near other cars for everyone, regardless of their DR/SR. Then base SR on that ratio compared to everyone else. Most time close to other cars with no contact gets the highest SR.
You can tweak this in many ways. Spinning out, going off track, touching walls can all count as contacts against you as well. Proper car control comes first. Then you can modify the severity of each contact based on the situation. Force of contact and what the other car was doing. But never forgiveness, any contact counts. Just hitting an out of control car should count very little, while ramming another car driving/braking normally should count a lot, getting punted counts the least.
Now you have everyone sorted on driving style, the safest most contact free drivers have the highest SR and you can group people together the way it was intended. You can tweak how much of a history it should look at, contacts over the last 10 hours driving for example. No more yoyo system.
Most important, do not distinguish between DR classes. The rules should be the same for everyone.
There are many ways to drive people off road / wreck people with less then 10 mph difference. You can just force them into the pit wall for example or push them out in a corner.
Making the ghosting as it works in D/E universal would help a lot without having to change anything. In D/E when you try to punt someone, the game ghosts you and you wreck yourself. If you try to side swipe someone, you get ghosted and you wreck yourself. This is the best deterrent to dirty driving, going full speed into a wall while you target drives on obliviously, you'll soon stop doing it. However as it works now (and always has) you pretty much automatically advance out of SR.E and you can punt people off again.
As a stop gap measure to stop this automatic advancement, SR should be deducted for having to be ghosted. If the game deems your driving so dangerous you need to be ghosted, why doesn't it give you an SR deduction? It's always been, attempt to kill is free, as long as it doesn't succeed, feel free to try again. Deducting SR for spinning out, hitting walls, going wide, cutting corners would already keep a lot of trouble makers out of SR.S.
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- 1,072
- Behind you
- 11,200
- Sweden
- eran0004
I didn’t say that a single lucky hit and run would teach you anything. I’m not even arguing that penalties should be used to facilitate learning, although I am acknowledging the fact that if you have managed to improve your SR rating to the point where it’s consistently high, then you have probably learned a thing or two (either that or you’re the world’s luckiest player).
Limiting the classes you’re eligible to enter by the SR rating would give casual players an incentive to work on their race craft. And while they do that they would enjoy low speed, low power racing so that they can learn at their own pace. It doesn’t make sense to go straight to a Gr.3 machine when you barely know what a racing line is.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
GR.1 Sarthe next week, medium tires x7 6 laps, total carnage incoming
- 211
- France
Yes the “new penalty system”..there is no more penalty is disastrous it is killing the game..you are obliged to look more in the mirrors than in front of you to find the good trajectory as it it is possible to overtake by pushing you out of the track a nightmare GTS is dead what is doing Polyphony?
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It's a phase. PD does this now and then to, I guess, make the penalty system seem less bad 
"Oh you don't like the way it works, see how it is without penalties"
How do you call that kind of abusive relationship? It works, half a week later and we're already at "Anything is better than no penalties"
"Oh you don't like the way it works, see how it is without penalties"
How do you call that kind of abusive relationship? It works, half a week later and we're already at "Anything is better than no penalties"
- 1,174
- Phoenix, AZ
- MonyB
It's a phase. PD does this now and then to, I guess, make the penalty system seem less bad
"Oh you don't like the way it works, see how it is without penalties"
How do you call that kind of abusive relationship? It works, half a week later and we're already at "Anything is better than no penalties"
I refuse to believe that a studio and dev team that does as much intricately detailed things as PD does not know that their penalty system is fundamentally flawed and that tweaking the triggers really resolves nothing. They would have to be complete idiots to not realize that, which they are not. Which means that they know this and choose not to address the underlying fundamental issues. Which leads me to why? Do they really want to leave a broken product out on the market while they work on the next title in their franchise?
- 1,072
- Behind you
OK I complained, but if anything I wanted it stricter, possible less severe pens but more. I knew this would be the result of less pens. I've stopped playing for now, doing some practice races and offline stuff but no dailies and might try FIA Wednesday or might just skip it totally.It's a phase. PD does this now and then to, I guess, make the penalty system seem less bad
"Oh you don't like the way it works, see how it is without penalties"
How do you call that kind of abusive relationship? It works, half a week later and we're already at "Anything is better than no penalties"
It's a real shame that they can't address this issue, loads of suggestions here on what to do and some must be good and/or workable, but not they just fiddle with the sensitivity
- 563
- France
- ElGringoFuerte
It's a phase. PD does this now and then to, I guess, make the penalty system seem less bad
"Oh you don't like the way it works, see how it is without penalties"
How do you call that kind of abusive relationship? It works, half a week later and we're already at "Anything is better than no penalties"
you know , the last time we got no penalties at all , races i did were among the cleanest and fairest i did , i may be one of the very few in that case but at least lovetaps are no longer penalized for now
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- 1,072
- Behind you
Let me guess your A or A+ where you might get good games, but for most it's just hell. Lovetaps are still punished if they are to the rear of the car, but not in any sensible manner, twice I've been rear ended coming off a pen and been given another pen. Of course people will avoid the lovetaps, well why tap someone when smashing their side will not be penalised, will help you round the corner and probably put them off.
