PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[GR33N]

Why I have an alt-account:



With an alt, I can laugh at this and have fun in a weird demolition derby sort of way...

Amazing haha what DR-SR level was that?

 

[barak181]

Amazing haha what DR-SR level was that?

DR was all over the place - A to D, IIRC. SR was A/B. I got battered down my first few races and just kept on following the rabbit hole down.

 

[greor84]

I am new and this has probably been suggested before, but why the cap at 99 on SR? You hit 99, clean race for 20 or 30 more races, and when it comes to penalties you are treated the same as a person who just hit 99 the race before.

Why not this. 99 is your official max for records. But, after that you have a buffer pool of points. After you hit 99 you earn 20% of you normal DS points that you would have got, up to a max of 25 buffer points. Then you could earn 10% or your points to a max total of 50 buffer points. So, you would cap out at 149 points You would still lose these "buffer" points at a normal rate, but at least you would have a buffer that you EARNED through driving safe and having a good rep and "sustaining" that good behavior well past your cap of 99. The numbers/percentages I proposed would need to be changed by people who understand the big picture and proper weighting of bonus points, etc.

The thing that bugs me is that my respect for others and track limits does not vary. Some races are more penalty prone than others. People who spend a lot of time at 99 and get lots of clean races don't become reckless dive bombers overnight, and if they did then this change would just take a couple of more races for them to end up where they would have been anyway..

When you have a hard cap on your SR, it can only ever go in one direction. This is silly.

In my opinion their seems to be a system present that rewards clean driving and gives an additional penalty for continuous borderline driving. I have the feeling that there is an additional variable that the system keeps track of but we can't see it.

What made me wonder was the fact that I received sometimes penalties for the same incident and sometimes not. When I looked I my driving style and attitude I noticed that I was receiving many more penalties when I was driving awfully close and competitively but still trying to stay clean. In that case you cannot avoid small bumps. After deciding to change my attitude towards a save and clean driving suddenly, I was not getting any penalties for the same small bumps.

For me it seems that the system keeps track of consecutive clean sectors that you drive and based on that score you receive some resilience to receiving a penalty and SR down.

Since this resilience factor applies to all parties involved in the small bumps it sometimes seems to be unfair for who of the involved parties receives the penalties.

This resilience will at least prevent you from getting penalties for small bumps but from my experience after 2 such small incidents in short order you are back to 0 resilience and if more bumps occur you go into negative resilience ( meaning you get penalized for everything ). I have had cases where I received a penalty for getting hit by a car that rejoined, then I had a clean race bonus and in the following race the same rejoin tap happened again but I still received the clean sector bonus.

So you can still have a blue SR after a race and have your SR raised but your driving style factor still might be negative since you had many small incidents where you did not get a penalty nor SR downs but you might have had many sectors where you did not get an SR up.

In case there really exists such a factor your safety driving style carries over from one race to the next. Just imagine: You have a bad race and you are fed up with it for that day, you go back several days later (not remembering all the small incidents from last race) and now you start with this negative factor which will lead to the immediate penalty at the beginning of the race which will make you immediately angry .

The solution for me is after a bad race make sure that you get a clean race in during a time where you still remember that you had these incidents. And I will always try to stop a racing day with 99 SR.

 

[Petroperu]

 

[OJBrit]

So all the YouTubers and streamers are complaining and I guess they are the voice of the community. Surely PD has to see what is going on as they are only getting negative press at the moment.

 

[Norrin Radd]

So all the YouTubers and streamers are complaining and I guess they are the voice of the community. Surely PD has to see what is going on as they are only getting negative press at the moment.

I hope they are not the voice for the community!!! Just because they are decent drivers and have a YT channel doesn't make their opinion more valid than yours or mine and quite frankly most of them are dodgy at best. Few really good ones in there, but even they aren't more important than anybody else.

 

[O604]

So all the YouTubers and streamers are complaining and I guess they are the voice of the community. Surely PD has to see what is going on as they are only getting negative press at the moment.

Complaints started in 2017. During Beta. They've held 3 FIA World Championships. They're not changing because a YouTuber got a penalty.

 

[OJBrit]

I hope they are not the voice for the community!!! Just because they are decent drivers and have a YT channel doesn't make their opinion more valid than yours or mine and quite frankly most of them are dodgy at best. Few really good ones in there, but even they aren't more important than anybody else.

That's not really what I meant. PD knows the community follows them and even those who don't actually play the game do as well. Essentially they are a route in for people to play the game. If they are getting disillusioned then they know others will follow suit. Yes people will still play the game but you or I couldn't get a message out there to PD the way they can.

 

[barak181]

That's not really what I meant. PD knows the community follows them and even those who don't actually play the game do as well. Essentially they are a route in for people to play the game. If they are getting disillusioned then they know others will follow suit. Yes people will still play the game but you or I couldn't get a message out there to PD the way they can.

The only time PD ever really got the message is when a bunch of top players and YT'ers got together and organized a boycott of an FIA race. But then things went downhill pretty quickly after that so...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

In my opinion their seems to be a system present that rewards clean driving and gives an additional penalty for continuous borderline driving. I have the feeling that there is an additional variable that the system keeps track of but we can't see it.

What made me wonder was the fact that I received sometimes penalties for the same incident and sometimes not. When I looked I my driving style and attitude I noticed that I was receiving many more penalties when I was driving awfully close and competitively but still trying to stay clean. In that case you cannot avoid small bumps. After deciding to change my attitude towards a save and clean driving suddenly, I was not getting any penalties for the same small bumps.

For me it seems that the system keeps track of consecutive clean sectors that you drive and based on that score you receive some resilience to receiving a penalty and SR down.

Since this resilience factor applies to all parties involved in the small bumps it sometimes seems to be unfair for who of the involved parties receives the penalties.

This resilience will at least prevent you from getting penalties for small bumps but from my experience after 2 such small incidents in short order you are back to 0 resilience and if more bumps occur you go into negative resilience ( meaning you get penalized for everything ). I have had cases where I received a penalty for getting hit by a car that rejoined, then I had a clean race bonus and in the following race the same rejoin tap happened again but I still received the clean sector bonus.

So you can still have a blue SR after a race and have your SR raised but your driving style factor still might be negative since you had many small incidents where you did not get a penalty nor SR downs but you might have had many sectors where you did not get an SR up.

In case there really exists such a factor your safety driving style carries over from one race to the next. Just imagine: You have a bad race and you are fed up with it for that day, you go back several days later (not remembering all the small incidents from last race) and now you start with this negative factor which will lead to the immediate penalty at the beginning of the race which will make you immediately angry .

The solution for me is after a bad race make sure that you get a clean race in during a time where you still remember that you had these incidents. And I will always try to stop a racing day with 99 SR.

It would be nice to have, but I've never seen any such consistency. I have seen consistency in DR treatment. Higher DR gets more blame, which is where you end up when you drive competitively. Safer driving, lower DR than those around you, more forgiveness.

The DR treatment is very consistent and I always notice it starting from the back. I can have tons of clean races until my DR gets too high compared to those starting around me and any touch by another car gets blamed on me. After a DR reset I'm close to immune from door rub penalties even when my SR shoots back up in race C. Yet advance in DR, starting behind lower DR, doesn't matter how safe I drive. Higher DR, your fault.

It's so obvious starting from the back. While advancing to the front, penalties change with the DR I encounter from back to front. When N24 was on, always penalties in the first sections, then after getting to the front, more forgiving for the same contact. So there can't be any memory involved otherwise it should work in reverse. The contacts early on should make it harder later, but in my experience, it simply depends on the DR of the other driver and penalties trigger less often for me (and more often for the ones hitting me) the further to the front I got.

I do suspect some kind of 'memory' with short cut penalties. That pesky 0.5 sec penalty seems so random on location alone, but makes a bit more sense if you were 'pushing the limits' a couple times before already. Maybe as simple as too little to round up to 0.5 sec at first. It doesn't carry over between races though.

 

[greor84]

It would be nice to have, but I've never seen any such consistency. I have seen consistency in DR treatment. Higher DR gets more blame, which is where you end up when you drive competitively. Safer driving, lower DR than those around you, more forgiveness.

The DR treatment is very consistent and I always notice it starting from the back. I can have tons of clean races until my DR gets too high compared to those starting around me and any touch by another car gets blamed on me. After a DR reset I'm close to immune from door rub penalties even when my SR shoots back up in race C. Yet advance in DR, starting behind lower DR, doesn't matter how safe I drive. Higher DR, your fault.

It's so obvious starting from the back. While advancing to the front, penalties change with the DR I encounter from back to front. When N24 was on, always penalties in the first sections, then after getting to the front, more forgiving for the same contact. So there can't be any memory involved otherwise it should work in reverse. The contacts early on should make it harder later, but in my experience, it simply depends on the DR of the other driver and penalties trigger less often for me (and more often for the ones hitting me) the further to the front I got.

I do suspect some kind of 'memory' with short cut penalties. That pesky 0.5 sec penalty seems so random on location alone, but makes a bit more sense if you were 'pushing the limits' a couple times before already. Maybe as simple as too little to round up to 0.5 sec at first. It doesn't carry over between races though.

Yes, I can also agree with your observation that DR will make a difference. By the way your comments in the past inspired me to make a challenge for myself to find my equillibrium DR. I created an alternate account for with the rule to only drive daily race C and never set a qualy time. So all my DR gains are comming from overtaking others. With the current challenge at Monza it is very difficult to advance but I managed several clean race results.
https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=14242296 alt account
Since I am allways driving in Europe at busy times the DR spread in the races is very small, most of the time well below 7000 points. So all of the experiences I made were in lobbies with almost equal DR. I have seen these downward spirals now 4 times before Monza. At Suzuka I even went down to SR 60 within 3 or for races. After applying my conclusions I was suddenly getting clean races again (including some fender benders without penalties). During the downward spiral I would even get penalties for small bumbs from the back.
I agree that your observation regarding the DR spread might also affect the calculation.
The 0,5 sec penalties I only see for cutting corners and would only affect the loss of clean sector count, but if you have every 2nd or 3rd round one of them you would loose the clean sector bonus completly and gain easier penalties for slight contacts.

By the way, the first time I encountered this phenomenom was at Willow Spring with my main account. I started my first 3 races and I was getting penalties for breathing until I drove in such a way to avoid any contact (leaving a bit space.... basically driving sensible "when your the 3rd car in a close battle your the first to brake leave slip stream to have better braking control and in case a car is following you give him space to brake).
This stopped my SR down spiral, I think I was 5 points away from reset. Afterwards I was running for podium in every race (1st split lobby everytime).

The no qualy equilibrium is a real interesting challenge for me. For me it is a teaching tool in patience. From the experience with the challenge I would allways sacrefice a position (and DR) for a clean sector and I would choose last place with a clean race bonus at the end over position 5 with a +1 SR (blue).

 

[Petroperu]

So all the YouTubers and streamers are complaining and I guess they are the voice of the community. Surely PD has to see what is going on as they are only getting negative press at the moment.

They won't.
Notice, that video I posted is one of about 20 videos I've seen in one day only.
The game is broken and the fact that they keep doing something like FIA without fixing the atrocious penalty system truly baffles my mind.

 

[Tom Andersen]

I started Daily races about a week ago, I try to drive carefully to understand the system, the result is that I was hit a lot of times of wreckless drivers, all the penalty was on me, and even after 5 clean races I am still hit of 1-minute penalty at the end of races, so instead of 8th I was dropped to 15-17th, I do think I am in bad standing at GTS for not being aggressive. SO SAD

 

[BaareCZ]

and even after 5 clean races I am still hit of 1-minute penalty at the end of races, so instead of 8th I was dropped to 15-17th, I do think I am in bad standing at GTS for not being aggressive. SO SAD

Oh ffs, another one. That 1 minute penalty at the end has nothing to do with your driving, mate. You should read and pay attention to the race details.

On a different note. I don't like that track very much but I did a few races from the back at Monza and being clean was my absolute top priority. Braking early, leaving space, only overtaking on the straights, not going two wide into a corner and all that 🤬. Basically did my absolute best not to touch anyone's no no square. Down to 50 SR after 5 races.

 

[neil_1980]

I started Daily races about a week ago, I try to drive carefully to understand the system, the result is that I was hit a lot of times of wreckless drivers, all the penalty was on me, and even after 5 clean races I am still hit of 1-minute penalty at the end of races, so instead of 8th I was dropped to 15-17th, I do think I am in bad standing at GTS for not being aggressive. SO SAD

The 1 min penalty will have been for not using all the tyre compounds required for the race.

 

[watto79]

I started Daily races about a week ago, I try to drive carefully to understand the system, the result is that I was hit a lot of times of wreckless drivers, all the penalty was on me, and even after 5 clean races I am still hit of 1-minute penalty at the end of races, so instead of 8th I was dropped to 15-17th, I do think I am in bad standing at GTS for not being aggressive. SO SAD

Read this.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...r-the-race-when-i-didnt-get-a-penalty.393428/

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Oh ffs, another one. That 1 minute penalty at the end has nothing to do with your driving, mate. You should read and pay attention to the race details.

Read what though? The game never gives an explanation for the penalty, never introduces 'required tire compounds', mixes it in with all the other details on a race details screen no one pays attention to.

The fact that pretty much every new comer has the same experience, over a year after the stealthy introduction of this first 30, now 60 second penalty into daily races, is proof PD doesn't care at all about your experience. The fun days when nearly everyone had a 30 second penalty at the end of the race, PD remained silent, just as with all the other 'rules'.

Name one sport in the world where you get slapped with a penalty without any explanation!

How hard can it be to add a warning, like when you have a standing start with false start penalties. Imagine it leaving it up to the user to find the start type hidden somewhere in the details, no clue at the start whether you're supposed to stay on the brakes for the green. That's the tire situation.


My only hope left is that PD is sitting on a fully reworked penalty/DR/SR system, holding it back for GT7 as a way to get people to move over quickly. Keep GT Sport intentionally broken not to have people stick around with the broken mess.

Anyway fits in with the other obtuse penalties, secret track limits, secret CRB triggers, secret wall penalties, secret SR/DR calculations and resets (imagine not having KP...) Is this a sports game or a puzzle game

 

[Fudman420]

Read what though? The game never gives an explanation for the penalty, never introduces 'required tire compounds', mixes it in with all the other details on a race details screen no one pays attention to.

The fact that pretty much every new comer has the same experience, over a year after the stealthy introduction of this first 30, now 60 second penalty into daily races, is proof PD doesn't care at all about your experience. The fun days when nearly everyone had a 30 second penalty at the end of the race, PD remained silent, just as with all the other 'rules'.

Name one sport in the world where you get slapped with a penalty without any explanation!

How hard can it be to add a warning, like when you have a standing start with false start penalties. Imagine it leaving it up to the user to find the start type hidden somewhere in the details, no clue at the start whether you're supposed to stay on the brakes for the green. That's the tire situation.


My only hope left is that PD is sitting on a fully reworked penalty/DR/SR system, holding it back for GT7 as a way to get people to move over quickly. Keep GT Sport intentionally broken not to have people stick around with the broken mess.

Anyway fits in with the other obtuse penalties, secret track limits, secret CRB triggers, secret wall penalties, secret SR/DR calculations and resets (imagine not having KP...) Is this a sports game or a puzzle game

It would be nice if a revamped pen system was in place already. I just dont see it.. We've gone through iteration after iteration with some good and some bad in each patch. No matter what there has ALWAYS been a part of the system that was off or flat out messed up. Here we are 3 years later and im sure some would argue its in its worst state yet. I feel like a gt7 fia pen system is going to be almost exactly what we are experiencing now.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

It would be nice if a revamped pen system was in place already. I just dont see it.. We've gone through iteration after iteration with some good and some bad in each patch. No matter what there has ALWAYS been a part of the system that was off or flat out messed up. Here we are 3 years later and im sure some would argue its in its worst state yet. I feel like a gt7 fia pen system is going to be almost exactly what we are experiencing now.

And once word of that get around on review pages and among customers GT7 will be dead in the water.

 

[Fudman420]

And once word of that get around on review pages and among customers GT7 will be dead in the water.

The sad thing is i think even with a messed up fia the game will sell like gangbusters because of the more traditional single player turismo experience. Those of us wanting to play online will be left wondering if we should play a different game or scrap online racing altogether.

 

[Norrin Radd]

The sad thing is i think even with a messed up fia the game will sell like gangbusters because of the more traditional single player turismo experience. Those of us wanting to play online will be left wondering if we should play a different game or scrap online racing altogether.

Well I got the game thinking I would have a decent offline game and only tried online because otherwise I would have just dumped it.

 

[barak181]

Anyway fits in with the other obtuse penalties, secret track limits, secret CRB triggers, secret wall penalties, secret SR/DR calculations and resets (imagine not having KP...) Is this a sports game or a puzzle game

I'm pretty sure some of the devs wish they were working on a Myst reboot or something. Seriously, when I first started playing this game a year and a half ago I was astounded by the amount of obfuscation on the part of the developers. I've grown used to it but a part of me still is. I don't know if I've ever played a game where the devs try to withhold so much information from the players. Yet, here I am, like thousands of others, logging on and playing every day.

 

[O604]

Read what though? The game never gives an explanation for the penalty, never introduces 'required tire compounds', mixes it in with all the other details on a race details screen no one pays attention to.

The fact that pretty much every new comer has the same experience, over a year after the stealthy introduction of this first 30, now 60 second penalty into daily races, is proof PD doesn't care at all about your experience. The fun days when nearly everyone had a 30 second penalty at the end of the race, PD remained silent, just as with all the other 'rules'.

Name one sport in the world where you get slapped with a penalty without any explanation!

Sorry but the tire penalty is something that should maybe happen, once.

So I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who it happens to once and they feel they need to post about it here. It's the penalty I have the least problems with.

 

[Fudman420]

Sorry but the tire penalty is something that should maybe happen, once.

So I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who it happens to once and they feel they need to post about it here. It's the penalty I have the least problems with.

Agreed but if the game did a better job of telling you about the mandatory tire use there would less penalties and then less running here to complain about the penalty. It just doesnt do a good job telling you. I initially found out about the change from the thread here at gtplanet.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Sorry but the tire penalty is something that should maybe happen, once.

So I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who it happens to once and they feel they need to post about it here. It's the penalty I have the least problems with.

It might be nice if the penalty popped up at the start of the final lap in a big red box:

[+1 minute
Failed to use mandatory tyre].

That would get rid of any confusion, with GTS that would probably have you stopped for a minute in the penalty zone though.

 

[O604]

It might be nice if the penalty popped up at the start of the final lap in a big red box:

[+1 minute
Failed to use mandatory tyre].

That would get rid of any confusion, with GTS that would probably have you stopped for a minute in the penalty zone though.

Or better yet auto-pit on the last lap if the change hasn't been made. A real pit crew would be yelling at you.

There are better ways. No doubt.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

Agreed but if the game did a better job of telling you about the mandatory tire use there would less penalties and then less running here to complain about the penalty. It just doesnt do a good job telling you. I initially found out about the change from the thread here at gtplanet.

I just can't agree with what you are saying and it sounds like you are trying to blame the system for your lack of preparation.

It is listed in the race information and it is listed on the matching page when you start an online race which has me wondering how many more places does it need to be listed? Do you want a large banner going across the screen during the race reminding you of tire usage? In my opinion your statement sounds like you don't read the race information before each race, just jump into the race and off you go. I don't feel you can blame the system for this one.

Again in my opinion this is one of the system penalties which is very justified and should be more than just a 1 minute penalty. Not following the outlined race rules is cheating.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I just can't agree with what you are saying and it sounds like you are trying to blame the system for your lack of preparation.

It is listed in the race information and it is listed on the matching page when you start an online race which has me wondering how many more places does it need to be listed? Do you want a large banner going across the screen during the race reminding you of tire usage? In my opinion your statement sounds like you don't read the race information before each race, just jump into the race and off you go. I don't feel you can blame the system for this one.

Again in my opinion this is one of the system penalties which is very justified and should be more than just a 1 minute penalty. Not following the outlined race rules is cheating.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the pen isn't justified. This game though is jump in and play, no set up or fiddling with anything and as such having something that at least tells you what the pen was for should be expected. Yes people should read the rules before entering, but then we should all read every TOS that we click on saying we've read and agree to. It wouldn't take much to add a pop up telling you why you were penalised, everything for it is already in place, they just need to add it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the pen isn't justified. This game though is jump in and play, no set up or fiddling with anything and as such having something that at least tells you what the pen was for should be expected. Yes people should read the rules before entering, but then we should all read every TOS that we click on saying we've read and agree to. It wouldn't take much to add a pop up telling you why you were penalised, everything for it is already in place, they just need to add it.

It was hilarious when it was introduced. I had races where I went from 10th to 1st at the line due to everyone getting a 30 sec penalty

Then there was this whole uncertainty on what counts. First you could get away using mixed tire set ups, hards rear, fronts medium, no stop

The game also happily lets you start on heavy wet tires if that's the last you raced with with that particular car. Apparently those are always allowed even though tires are restricted to one type. Fun to do a lap at the Nord on heavy wets in dry weather at x13 tire wear

 

[Tea_Leaves]

My only hope left is that PD is sitting on a fully reworked penalty/DR/SR system, holding it back for GT7 as a way to get people to move over quickly. Keep GT Sport intentionally broken not to have people stick around with the broken mess.

Possibly, but PD would want to keep existing players attached while attracting more to the franchise in preparation for GT7 (probably still a long time until its release) rather than push them to something else. A bad penalty system is negative press for the GT name.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that's hesitant buying GT7 and PS5 based on how poorly GT Sport's penalty system was treated. It's an elephant in the room case, BoP and FIA season updates are great (supporting and extending life of the game) but what about the system deciding the integrity of it.

It's too bad that all the finesse and detail in this game was never translated to the penalty system.