PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

I only enter rooms labeled as clean. I have no doubt that the drivers are clean when they want to be, but without any real consequences it opens the door wide open for vigilante justice be it over someone's poor driving or just the fact that you called out their friend for being a dirty driver. I honestly haven't driven in the lobby's in months and the relatively clean driving in the Daily Races is fine enough for me.

Well, a little verbal restraint goes a long way, LOL

It's also wise to judge a room based on your overall pace compared to those established in it. If you spot yourself running a few seconds off the pace, it is easy to upset the faster drivers, and you may find yourself in incidents simply by getting out of shape. Cause an incident, apologize for it before you get someone after you for retaliation (keep a mic open). When I find myself in a clean room with people I don't know yet, I will dial down the aggression and accept the loss of position until I can eyeball how they race each other... Easier to see that from behind!

Hopefully, you have joined for enough time to complete several races, why worry too much about the first couple?!
 
I must say they change it a lot, and right now it's totally a mess. People causing accidents and getting no penalty themselves yet the other driver does get a penalty for doing nothing wrong. It's like they've got it backwards at the moment.
 
Ok so here is the non cryptic version:

apologize for it before you get someone after you for retaliation (keep a mic open).

What would be the point in “keeping a mic open” for any lobbies in GTS?

A lot has changed since GT 5/6, one of them being the only way to voice chat to anyone is through the PS’s party chat, so keeping a mic open as a way of apologising would be completely useless on entering a random lobby.

Through a little bit of deduction you can work out @simsimsheree hasn’t actually played at least online in non sport mode lobbies.
 
upload_2018-12-2_8-14-7.png


These two things are not the same.
 
You attempted to "throw shade", "call out" or embarrass (call it what you will) someone supported by the supposition that voice chat between possibly unconnected players is unrealistic.

For your next trick why don't you tell me how your garden grows, Mary?
 
Ok so here is the non cryptic version:



What would be the point in “keeping a mic open” for any lobbies in GTS?

A lot has changed since GT 5/6, one of them being the only way to voice chat to anyone is through the PS’s party chat, so keeping a mic open as a way of apologising would be completely useless on entering a random lobby.

Through a little bit of deduction you can work out @simsimsheree hasn’t actually played at least online in non sport mode lobbies.

well said rono! :cheers:
 
someone supported by the supposition that voice chat between possibly unconnected players is unrealistic.

It is unrealistic between connected and unconnected players, correct, as its much quicker to type sorry than go through the hassle of setting up a party chat - which is exactly how I support my original claim from my first post.

You have now moved the goal posts from claiming I said it was impossible - I didnt.

A lot has changed since GT 5/6, one of them being the only way to voice chat to anyone is through the PS’s party chat, so keeping a mic open as a way of apologising would be completely useless on entering a random lobby.

As you can see I actually said party chat is the only way to talk to anyone, which you interpret wronly as;

So you can't join a PSN chat (party) with someone you don't know? Like how I don't know this person...

Where did I say that? Would be much quicker to type sorry rather than start a party chat on the assumption the other person has a mic :lol:

As you can see I said useless. Redundant. Never used. Pointless to have a mic on, because even with it on the sorry you hastily utter would go unheard as you had forgotten you would have to pull over safely, press the PS button, navigate the menus to set up a party chat with the name of the person you’ve hastily had to jot down so you can search and locate that person, meanwhile that person would have to suspend their race to accept the party chat and search for their mic which they dont have ready, more likely they would ignore it, and low and behold you go back to the race to find you are last and currently being lapped by leaders (excluding la sarthe and nurb).

Or you could have typed sorry, as they already have pre written messages that take a matter of seconds to send.

I’m afraid its no magic trick, just flat out common sense and more to the point actually what happens.
 
I've been pushed wide twice, at the final turn of RBR. One player got a penalty for it, the other didn't. Hit me on my right rear corner both times.
PD should adopt the B-pillar rule. The move for a pass, can't stick if the front of the car is not past the b-pillar.
I understand about the lag between players and the explanations of how PD measure penalties. If the b- pillar rule was "written" in the etiquette videos, it could aid players in knowing how and when to pass.

As it is, some players still don't think they're "not doing things that make them look bad.".
 
It is unrealistic between connected and unconnected players, correct.
You think its unrealistic for connected players to interact via voice? Okay pal, I'm just imagining peoples voices emanating from my earphones then, right? Ever thought that perhaps it could just be that people just don't want to talk to you?

As far as it being unrealistic for unconnected players to interact via voice, that is pure assumption. Just because it may not be the way you, or those you know, choose to interact with others doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else on the planet doesn't also.

You have now moved the goal posts from claiming I said it was impossible - I didnt.

If you insist on making things up please don't do it over something so easily refuted; I never claimed you said it was impossible. My specifically chosen word was "unrealistic", chosen because of the incredulous , disbelieving, nature of your response to the author and a choice justified by your decision to repeat said word (in the first quote in this post).

Your entire justification, for attempting to belittle someone's contribution, is based on the assumption that the author of the post, upon joining random rooms, doesn't invite, in (text) chat, others to join his party chat session or ask anyone else in the room if they are hosting a party chat session. By saying "keep a mic open" he could simply mean, that once connected with others in a party chat, he doesn't turn his mic off (which some people do). You took your assumption as the only interpretation of what he meant and subsequently attempted to belittle his contribution. Unless you can prove that you are the sole arbiter of how people use the given tools to interact with one another then your criticism of his contribution in unwarranted, unfair and symptomatic of the know-it-all, elitist attitude that unfortunately pervades this forum all too often. If you can provide me with your irrefutable statistics of how everybody playing GTS interacts then I'll willingly and gladly defer to your insider knowledge.

... useless. Redundant. Never used. Pointless to have a mic on,

Assumption.

Again.
 
I've been pushed wide twice, at the final turn of RBR. One player got a penalty for it, the other didn't. Hit me on my right rear corner both times.
PD should adopt the B-pillar rule. The move for a pass, can't stick if the front of the car is not past the b-pillar.
I understand about the lag between players and the explanations of how PD measure penalties. If the b- pillar rule was "written" in the etiquette videos, it could aid players in knowing how and when to pass.

As it is, some players still don't think they're "not doing things that make them look bad.".
Remember this B pillar incident and the outcome? :sly:

Unt.png


Even the stewards got this one wrong and I'm pretty sure it would soon be exploited in this same fashion. You'd only have to slightly ease of the brakes (like JW & SVG have been known to do ;)) to make sure you hit past the B pillar.

Also there'd be the same issue as Supercars are going to have next season... not all cars have an B pillar.
 
So you can't join a PSN chat (party) with someone you don't know? Like how I don't know this person...

View attachment 783972
Out of all the hundreds or a thousand times I've been in lobbies, I've only ever been invited to party chat 3 or 4 times. Most people don't accept invites anyway and even if they did, the maximum is only 8 while a lobby holds twice that.

The point is that "have a mic open" isn't a solution to anything.
 
You think its unrealistic for connected players to interact via voice? Okay pal, I'm just imagining peoples voices emanating from my earphones then, right?

The original conversation was revolving around random lobbies.

No its not unrealistic for a bunch of friends, actually only 8 (see below), to be in a lobby saying sorry to each other as they bounce off each other during their races.

However, in the interest of keeping the conversation in the context that it began upon joining a random room, keeping a Mic open, (no where in sims instructional post did he say whilst in party chat it was me that brought party chat up) in the way sim described, Im sure if he meant to say in party chat he wouldn’t have omitted it.


Ever thought that perhaps it could just be that people just don't want to talk to you?

Now this would be belittling now wouldn’t it?

As far as it being unrealistic for unconnected players to interact via voice, that is pure assumption.

Yes an educated assumption combined with the practicallity of it all (again see below).

Just because it may not be the way you, or those you know, choose to interact with others doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else on the planet doesn't also.

Again practicallity issues see below.

If you insist on making things up please don't do it over something so easily refuted; I never claimed you said it was impossible.

Oh but you did, you wrote

So you can't join a PSN chat (party) with someone you don't know? Like how I don't know this person...

Which is the same as saying “you’ve said this is impossible look I’ve proved you wrong.” Lets not argue semantics.

My specifically chosen word was "unrealistic", chosen because of the incredulous , disbelieving, nature of your response to the author and a choice justified by your decision to repeat said word (in the first quote in this post).

Justified yes because I think you’ve convinced yourself of something that isn’t reality, and only technically possible up to a point. (See below) Also as a way of communicating in GTS using party chat is inadequate and a pain that most (educated again) do not use it as the go to, to say sorry for contact. It is because Sim suggested it that I posted my original post, He has described something that was normal for GT 5/6 not GTS.

Unless you can prove that you are the sole arbiter of how people use the given tools to interact with one another then your criticism of his contribution in unwarranted, unfair and symptomatic of the know-it-all, elitist attitude that unfortunately pervades this forum all too often.

Elitist how? Is that we are calling different opinions now? As thats all we are butting heads about.

Lets talk about how party chat doesn’t work so well in random lobbies - there are exceptions but this is how it generally goes.

So each and every individual player needs to be invited to party chat, I mean that can get really annoying if you have to interupt each qually lap to invite the new players that join, and then there’s the players that dont have mics, and what happens if there are 9+ Players, what if your in a lobby with 16 players, which players do you choose to invite, and then perhaps you forget who you’ve invited as they are all randoms so what is your go to, keeping the Mic open, or a quick press of start, I’m sorry, select the name,send, carry on racing.

Whilst I dont have numbers to back this up the amount of times I see Im sorry written in chat compared to the times I’ve used Mics in random lobbies would lead me to believe that using a Mic to say sorry in a random lobby is rare.

Which leads me back full circle to my original post, are sims opinions of GTS truly based in fact, or as I now suspect, that he hasnt at the very least raced in random online lobbies, not including sport mode, because if he had, keeping a Mic open would never have been a suggestion.
 
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Remember this B pillar incident and the outcome? :sly:

View attachment 784033

Even the stewards got this one wrong and I'm pretty sure it would soon be exploited in this same fashion. You'd only have to slightly ease of the brakes (like JW & SVG have been known to do ;)) to make sure you hit past the B pillar.

Also there'd be the same issue as Supercars are going to have next season... not all cars have an B pillar.
IMG_6106.JPG
 
Well, a little verbal restraint goes a long way, LOL

It's also wise to judge a room based on your overall pace compared to those established in it. If you spot yourself running a few seconds off the pace, it is easy to upset the faster drivers, and you may find yourself in incidents simply by getting out of shape. Cause an incident, apologize for it before you get someone after you for retaliation (keep a mic open). When I find myself in a clean room with people I don't know yet, I will dial down the aggression and accept the loss of position until I can eyeball how they race each other... Easier to see that from behind!

Hopefully, you have joined for enough time to complete several races, why worry too much about the first couple?!

Yeah, I don't have time to navigate the temperament and sensitivities of random strangers just to get a clean race. I'll stick with Sport mode.
 
Remember this B pillar incident and the outcome? :sly:

View attachment 784033

Even the stewards got this one wrong and I'm pretty sure it would soon be exploited in this same fashion. You'd only have to slightly ease of the brakes (like JW & SVG have been known to do ;)) to make sure you hit past the B pillar.

Also there'd be the same issue as Supercars are going to have next season... not all cars have an B pillar.

This is probably why the penalty system got simplified to what we have now. Before the position where contact was made was taken into account. Yet the car that brakes too late or lifts too soon is likely to be ahead at point of impact regardless whether they should have been there. There were plenty dive bombers taking advantage of that as it works to get yourself around the corner when not braking in time. Just make sure to hit the front of the car you are bombing. (Unfortunately the simplified version we have now is easily exploited as well, cut the corner before you hit, then you are the car that went off road and thus in the clear...)

I posted this in the daily race discussion as well, yet it's more relevant here and won't get buried as fast.

All my imo undeserved penalties from a week of N24 racing.
 
This is probably why the penalty system got simplified to what we have now. Before the position where contact was made was taken into account. Yet the car that brakes too late or lifts too soon is likely to be ahead at point of impact regardless whether they should have been there. There were plenty dive bombers taking advantage of that as it works to get yourself around the corner when not braking in time. Just make sure to hit the front of the car you are bombing. (Unfortunately the simplified version we have now is easily exploited as well, cut the corner before you hit, then you are the car that went off road and thus in the clear...)

I posted this in the daily race discussion as well, yet it's more relevant here and won't get buried as fast.

All my imo undeserved penalties from a week of N24 racing.

Unfortunately there'll always be ways to exploit whatever system is in place, whether it be purposely or even sometimes accidentally. I haven't done any Sport Mode racing for a while now so I'm not sure on how the system currently works, but back in my GT6 Quick Match days it was the same, people would dive bomb up the inside and hit the other car in the front to give them a penalty.

I really don't understand why they can't fix the ''cut the corner before you hit, then you are the car that went off road and thus in the clear'' part. It must be just as frustrating to PD as it is to us for them to get all these systems just right.

... And yeah, I'm not sure why you got those penalties either, especially in the instances when it was the other car that clearly lost control and hit you.
 
I posted this in the daily race discussion as well, yet it's more relevant here and won't get buried as fast.

All my imo undeserved penalties from a week of N24 racing.

Sven was the first one for a yellow flag pass? I cant actually see what contact gave you the pen.

Reason I ask is I’ve had a couple of yellow flag pass pens in FIA recently with what I consider superhuman reactions needed to avoid, how does the game work out who’s involved and then OK to pass, is it just ghosted cars? Its difficult to work out as some cars were obviously involved and moving very slowly off the racing line and when you pass them under yellows at either full race/qually speed coming around blind corners I kind of get the feeling that if they have unghosted then don’t overtake, but Im really guessing.
 
The only way I can see the penalty system being improved is that PD hires some AI specialists and it would make the whole system AI based. It is impossible for programmers to forsee all possible situations and make solutions for every one of them. It seems that they are changing some values from update to update (the reason for so big swings in behaviour), but the system as a whole does not get improved like that.
 
What pd needs to do in my mind is get iracing to lease them their penalty system .

And non blind stewards for the fia finals .
 

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