PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Night Owl]

Been kicked out of daily race C six times in a row now (Tokyo track). First time two days ago in the end of the race after some contacts that happens when racing, no fighting or paybacks going on. I turned off and when I turned on next day I was met with "one more collision and you're our out" message immediately when the race started, and got a slight bump from behind after half a lap and got kicked out. Tried two more times and got the message after less than half a lap and then some slight touches, mostly from behind as I was driving carefully, and then kicked out before half a lap. Today I tried two times and the same happen, got the message after second curve and got hit from behind through the following curves and got kicked out.

I don't care so much about my rating goes down the drain, gone from B/A to E/D, but would really like to be able the race with some kind of contact being allowed, especially if it happens in the rear end of my car it shouldn't be my fault (if I'm not braking too early though). I understand that kamikaze torpedo driving style are being punished, but slight bumps and side by side scratches that doesn't matter for any involved?

 

[mynameis66]

I dont totally understand the penalty system,on Le Sarthe daily race i nudged somebody wide on the right hand bend onto the main straight,my fault,inexperience showing through there!I got a 5 sec penalty which im ok with,i lost all of the penalty by the end of the lap but then 2 drivers `leapfrogged` me by cutting the very last chicane coming onto the start/finish straight,the one with the red curb,no penalty for them and i lost a podium.Oh well.All good fun though.

 

[mynameis66]

Do they add the penalty to the end results?I ask this because a guy in front of me had a 3 sec penalty throught a race,he crossed the line less than a second in front of me but still with a 3 sec penalty.I assumed i would have been promoted a place but he kept the place.
Similarly i got rid of a penalty during a different race,fine,in another race i kept my foot down and kept the penalty but didnt lose a place at the end results.Online racing is new to me so how is it supposed to work?I can get bumped off and recieve a time penalty for track limits but the guy shunting me gets nothing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@mynameis66 Track limits at Sarthe are a bit broken. As you have noticed the final chicane isn't working right, and also the right hand bend onto the main straightway. You can take it wide, however if you bump somebody wide like you did, you get a penalty, since for the penalty system it is still considered off track.

You should have gotten the place, yet in rare instances the information is still incorrect. When you cross the line with a penalty it is rounded up to the nearest second (1.001 becomes 2 sec added) and added to your time. You can however brake before the finish and scrub a 5 second penalty in less than 2 seconds. It's an 'art' to burn a penalty as efficient as possible right before crossing the finis. (Beware you can't scrub penalties under a yellow flag)

When you get bumped off, the car bumping you is supposed to get a penalty. It doesn't always work though. If the guy bumping you off first cut the track you might actually get a penalty. If you both go off track, neither might get a penalty. And sometimes it doesn't work at all like this this morning

I should have gotten a penalty here as I started braking too late and bumped the car to my right off the track. Then I t-boned him when he crossed the track. I got the clean race bonus in that race...

The base rule is, if contact occurs and one car goes off road / hits a wall, other car gets a penalty. Yet the force of impact and inconsistent track limits, as well as different sensitivities for different DR and SR levels make things more complicated. Plus PD keeps tinkering with it in every update. It's pretty much a process of rote learning, memorizing the quirks of the track limits at each track and which walls are 'sensitive' to bumps and scrapes. What is consistent is the higher your DR/SR the higher the penalties and sensitivity when it comes to contacts both from cars and walls.

 

[RussRobit]

Explain to me how I ran 5 clean B daily races in a row, starting between 3rd and 9th and gaining 1 to 3 positions in each, and yet still lost dr.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Explain to me how I ran 5 clean B daily races in a row, starting between 3rd and 9th and gaining 1 to 3 positions in each, and yet still lost dr.

Easy, your DR is 50K.

You gain 80 - ((50K - opponents DR) / 500) for every car you finish in front of.
You lose 80 + ((50K - opponents DR) / 500) for every car you finish behind.

You don't gain anything from drivers 10K or lower. DR.D and DR.C are not counted for your DR, unless you finish behind them...
You lose upto 160 points from finishing behind drivers lower than your DR, for example people with alt accounts or DR resets.

Beating a DR.A player is worth 40 to 80 points to you.
Beating a DR.B player is worth 0 to 40 points to you.

Finishing behind a DR.A player costs you 80 to 120 points.
Finishing behind a DR.B player costs you 120 to 160 points.
Finishing behind DR.C or DR.D costs you 160 points each.

Once you are A+ you have to finish first or 2nd to gain DR unless you find the rare room with multiple A+ in it.

 

[mynameis66]

@mynameis66 Track limits at Sarthe are a bit broken. As you have noticed the final chicane isn't working right, and also the right hand bend onto the main straightway. You can take it wide, however if you bump somebody wide like you did, you get a penalty, since for the penalty system it is still considered off track.

You should have gotten the place, yet in rare instances the information is still incorrect. When you cross the line with a penalty it is rounded up to the nearest second (1.001 becomes 2 sec added) and added to your time. You can however brake before the finish and scrub a 5 second penalty in less than 2 seconds. It's an 'art' to burn a penalty as efficient as possible right before crossing the finis. (Beware you can't scrub penalties under a yellow flag)

When you get bumped off, the car bumping you is supposed to get a penalty. It doesn't always work though. If the guy bumping you off first cut the track you might actually get a penalty. If you both go off track, neither might get a penalty. And sometimes it doesn't work at all like this this morning

I should have gotten a penalty here as I started braking too late and bumped the car to my right off the track. Then I t-boned him when he crossed the track. I got the clean race bonus in that race...

The base rule is, if contact occurs and one car goes off road / hits a wall, other car gets a penalty. Yet the force of impact and inconsistent track limits, as well as different sensitivities for different DR and SR levels make things more complicated. Plus PD keeps tinkering with it in every update. It's pretty much a process of rote learning, memorizing the quirks of the track limits at each track and which walls are 'sensitive' to bumps and scrapes. What is consistent is the higher your DR/SR the higher the penalties and sensitivity when it comes to contacts both from cars and walls.

Thanks for the reply,looks like ive still got lots to learn.👍

 

[RussRobit]

Easy, your DR is 50K.

You gain 80 - ((50K - opponents DR) / 500) for every car you finish in front of.
You lose 80 + ((50K - opponents DR) / 500) for every car you finish behind.

You don't gain anything from drivers 10K or lower. DR.D and DR.C are not counted for your DR, unless you finish behind them...
You lose upto 160 points from finishing behind drivers lower than your DR, for example people with alt accounts or DR resets.

Beating a DR.A player is worth 40 to 80 points to you.
Beating a DR.B player is worth 0 to 40 points to you.

Finishing behind a DR.A player costs you 80 to 120 points.
Finishing behind a DR.B player costs you 120 to 160 points.
Finishing behind DR.C or DR.D costs you 160 points each.

Once you are A+ you have to finish first or 2nd to gain DR unless you find the rare room with multiple A+ in it.

Well that answers that, thank you.

 

[jr4737]

something don't understand about the penalty system.
going to the tight corner and get bump out to the track, you lose position, time and you got at least 4 second (short cut) Penalty.
the guy bump you out had 2 second penalty but his went up.
WHY????
car in front of you and spin out to the track and come back and take you out and I still get penalty

 

[djidane57]

5 sec for hitting the wall at Tokyo ,even though you lose time already because of your own mistake ,what the hell?

 

[jr4737]

5 sec for hitting the wall at Tokyo ,even though you lose time already because of your own mistake ,what the hell?

Good Question:censored:🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

[sundaydriving]

The penalty system is crazy. Is it just these tracks or has something changed?

It seems too strict for the very simple logic it uses to determine fault and a lot players know how the system works now and some definitely seem to be gaming it.

The PD experiment continues?

 

[Shinu]

It is not perfect but not the worst also. You have to understand how difficult is to judge these things. Even FIA judges often argue

 

[fastone371]

5 sec for hitting the wall at Tokyo ,even though you lose time already because of your own mistake ,what the hell?

Wall contact penaltys are not stiff enough. People should be penalized for not having their car under control. Maybe if wall contact penaltys were stiffer we would not need to worry about the car in front hitting the wall and causing collisions with the next 3 cars behind. Far too many people think they are going to enter a race a win without being completely familiar with a track.

 

[rono_thomas]

5 sec for hitting the wall at Tokyo ,even though you lose time already because of your own mistake ,what the hell?

Kind of adds to the excitement that a street track needs to have, hitting a wall comes with a price, whichever it is Penalties or Damage.
I don’t see the penalties as a negative more of an enhancement.

 

[garix]

5 sec for hitting the wall at Tokyo ,even though you lose time already because of your own mistake ,what the hell?

I know what you mean cause I also had the pleasure. Other option would be damage when hitting the wall. I think it would cost more than 5 sec crawling back to pits and repairing it .

 

[VolkswagenX]

5 sec for hitting the wall at Tokyo ,even though you lose time already because of your own mistake ,what the hell?

How about spinning and hitting the wall, losing more than 5 seconds because you spun and than get the five second penalty when you reset? How hard can it be for this game to not give a penalty when you come to a complete stand still? I really like the Tokyo track in daily race C but I think I will just stick to qualifying and comparing lap times to people in my friends list.

Kind of adds to the excitement that a street track needs to have, hitting a wall comes with a price, whichever it is Penalties or Damage.
I don’t see the penalties as a negative more of an enhancement.

I would be for this if the people you raced online were not trying to drive through you and cause you to hit wall or spin. I also don't believe that every small touch of the wall will damage your car in such a way that you won't be competitive and I don't believe you need to get a penalty of 5 seconds for something that slows you down.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

How about spinning and hitting the wall, losing more than 5 seconds because you spun and than get the five second penalty when you reset? How hard can it be for this game to not give a penalty when you come to a complete stand still? I really like the Tokyo track in daily race C but I think I will just stick to qualifying and comparing lap times to people in my friends list.

I would be for this if the people you raced online were not trying to drive through you and cause you to hit wall or spin. I also don't believe that every small touch of the wall will damage your car in such a way that you won't be competitive and I don't believe you need to get a penalty of 5 seconds for something that slows you down.

Instead of a time penalty it should subtract 5 SR every time you hit a wall. That will help much better to separate the reckless from the careful drivers. Of course if you get bumped or pushed into a wall, the other car needs to get the 5 SR deduction. Penalties don't really help as they are too easy to scrub and only add danger when people slow down and ghost in bad places.

The only problem with that is that sometimes you have to hit the wall to avoid a missile coming at you. Still better to lose SR than get a time penalty for avoiding an accident.

SR should stand for safety rating. Go off track, SR goes down. Hit a car, SR goes down.

Time penalties are useless, I see people cutting corners on Sarthe then burn the penalty in front of me right after Arnage to unghost and block through the Porsche curves. Besides that, get punted in Mulsanne, you lose at least 7 seconds on your lap. The car that hit you gets 4 sec at most, which can be burned in less than 1.5 sec at the finish or with even less loss on the way to the Porsche curves.

It was over the top when you got 10 sec for the slightest brush of a bumper, yet currently it's an insult when the car that bumps you off in the chase on Mount Panorama gets 1 sec while you end up in the sand, then reset before the chase. At least make the penalty proportional to the time the car you hit lost.

 

[Groundfish]

I hope they add the pen zones to dailies.
I hope they work more on the system.
I have received only one pen in the last couple weeks it was hitting a wall on panorama.
Sr down seemed to be working decent. They need more of that.
I agree with a lot of what Sven said.
Biggest problem to me is a bump pass not causing the perp to get punished like Sven said.
A little pen for ruining a race is not enough.
Like at panorama use me for a brake at last left onto Conrod get what 2 seconds?
I’ve lost way more than that.
That’s the concept.
From what I’ve seen in good rooms though the vast majority are like minded.
So staying 99 pays.
A prob is when you get first timer in the high sr room guy, but in actual fact that’s rare.
You can always tell when there’s no comm after the race and they bounce out.
I’ve pulled over for people and they’ve done it for me.
There is a culture firmly in place in the better rooms.
The other thing is at 99 there’s sr to burn
and the people in those rooms will not hesitate to enforce the culture.
People get pissed at idiots and that culture also has an influence.
So that’s good

 

[fastone371]

Instead of a time penalty it should subtract 5 SR every time you hit a wall. That will help much better to separate the reckless from the careful drivers. Of course if you get bumped or pushed into a wall, the other car needs to get the 5 SR deduction. Penalties don't really help as they are too easy to scrub and only add danger when people slow down and ghost in bad places.

The only problem with that is that sometimes you have to hit the wall to avoid a missile coming at you. Still better to lose SR than get a time penalty for avoiding an accident.

SR should stand for safety rating. Go off track, SR goes down. Hit a car, SR goes down.

Time penalties are useless, I see people cutting corners on Sarthe then burn the penalty in front of me right after Arnage to unghost and block through the Porsche curves. Besides that, get punted in Mulsanne, you lose at least 7 seconds on your lap. The car that hit you gets 4 sec at most, which can be burned in less than 1.5 sec at the finish or with even less loss on the way to the Porsche curves.

It was over the top when you got 10 sec for the slightest brush of a bumper, yet currently it's an insult when the car that bumps you off in the chase on Mount Panorama gets 1 sec while you end up in the sand, then reset before the chase. At least make the penalty proportional to the time the car you hit lost.

If they know enough to penalize the perp for causing the victim go off track or hit a wall surely they can respawn the perp behind the victim after he gets out of the kitty litter. Seems like that would eliminate any advantage a perp could gain for forcing a victim to lose time. In a lobby yesterday on the f irst lap I was 5th and working my way forward when an out of control car hits me mid corner, by the time I am back on track heading the correct direction I am in 12th place, only because the car that hit hit slowed up and waited to let me by. Even with his gesture I restarted second last and was only able to finish 7th after 4 3/4 more laps. People who destroy your race like that should not be able to finish ahead of their victim. Although the perp didnt intentionally hit me he still failed to control his speeding, sliding car, that should not be allowed to ruin the #1 qualifiers entire race.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

If they know enough to penalize the perp for causing the victim go off track or hit a wall surely they can respawn the perp behind the victim after he gets out of the kitty litter. Seems like that would eliminate any advantage a perp could gain for forcing a victim to lose time. In a lobby yesterday on the f irst lap I was 5th and working my way forward when an out of control car hits me mid corner, by the time I am back on track heading the correct direction I am in 12th place, only because the car that hit hit slowed up and waited to let me by. Even with his gesture I restarted second last and was only able to finish 7th after 4 3/4 more laps. People who destroy your race like that should not be able to finish ahead of their victim. Although the perp didnt intentionally hit me he still failed to control his speeding, sliding car, that should not be allowed to ruin the #1 qualifiers entire race.

Problem is, the game doesn't know enough to penalize the right car. It still happens way too often that an out of control car hits your bumper and then the wall or goes off and you get a penalty. Imagine getting reset behind these clowns

I have no clue why PD can't fix that. The game should know the acceptable speed range you can be in at any point of the track. As long as you are above the minimum speed, it's not a brake check or block. Otherwise the car ahead should get a failure to proceed or reckless race re-entry penalty.

In my last race I made it to 7th, got punted in Mulsanne back to 12th. Perp was long gone, couldn't even see what penalty he got if any. He got DNF though and I still made it to 2nd. It would be nice if the game would show DQ instead of DNF. You never know now if it was a troll that left the race after doing enough damage or if they got removed by the game.

 

[sundaydriving]

People should be penalized for not having their car under control. Maybe if wall contact penaltys were stiffer we would not need to worry about the car in front hitting the wall and causing collisions with the next 3 cars behind.

The game can't tell whether a player has their car under control or not. This is a big problem and in my opinion hard to fix without something far more powerful than a PS4 (thats already maxed out playing a game).

Problem is, the game doesn't know enough to penalize the right car. It still happens way too often that an out of control car hits your bumper and then the wall or goes off and you get a penalty. Imagine getting reset behind these clowns

I have no clue why PD can't fix that. The game should know the acceptable speed range you can be in at any point of the track. As long as you are above the minimum speed, it's not a brake check or block. Otherwise the car ahead should get a failure to proceed or reckless race re-entry penalty.

You definitely meet loads of clowns at the back end of the grid when doing no-quali. Players that go off and trundle back onto the racing line so slowly that you have no choice but to launch them into space. Players who brake about 50m early then attempt to close then door after you're either way alongside, or marginally infront. The funniest ones accuse you of drive bombing. Brake checkers. I could go on. These are all opportunities for SR down and penalties.

The reason they haven't fixed properly it is because its hard to program, in fact so hard human stewards still get it wrong.

Ignoring its obvious flaws the system as it is now which assigns penalties based upon whoever went off track/hit a wall first relies on both players in an collision behaving nicely to each other which when players know each other well probably isn't an issue. Sport mode however...

In my mind, as soon as players started to realise that they can assign penalies to others by just glancing a wall after contact the whole system fell apart. You start to find players looking for car contact near walls to penalise their opponents. Nudge a player, nudge a wall, the first player now has a penalty. Repeat until DQd.

I don't know how the penalty system is encouraging players in DR B (where if we're honest car control isn't that great) and below, and any SR level for that matter but usually anything less than S to spend more time playing the game. I'm not suggesting different rules for different driver ratings as that was also a disaster.

 

[fastone371]

[QUOTE="You definitely meet loads of clowns at the back end of the grid when doing no-quali. Players that go off and trundle back onto the racing line so slowly that you have no choice but to launch them into space."[/QUOTE]


Part of the problem is with PD and game physics. As soon as the tires start to spin the cars all behave in a very unusual way. It just should not be so difficult to get a car moving from a dead stop. I have driven race cars with an honest 1500HP that were much easier to accelerate from
a stand still than any car capable of spinning the tires in GTS. It almost seems like PD takes the max torque of a given car and applies that maximum to any off idle acceleration regardless of throttle opening.

 

[djidane57]

just found out that if you smash somebody in the Tokyo chicane , that somebody still get 5 sec if they hit the wall , great PD

 

[VolkswagenX]

Losing SR on the long straight because my 911 rsr is slower than the GT following me. I was on the racing line and our cars never touched but I lost SR 3 times... I passed at the hairpin and was faster out of the corner but the GT is much faster on the straight and this game thinks it is fair to downgrade your SR for driving a slower car...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The game can't tell whether a player has their car under control or not. This is a big problem and in my opinion hard to fix without something far more powerful than a PS4 (thats already maxed out playing a game).

The game is all about tire grip, it sure knows when you lose grip. Sliding through corners is never more efficient. If you slide into someone, you are out of control. But true, the problem is that to avoid someone (track re-entry, unexpected early braker) you sometimes have to skid.

You definitely meet loads of clowns at the back end of the grid when doing no-quali. Players that go off and trundle back onto the racing line so slowly that you have no choice but to launch them into space. Players who brake about 50m early then attempt to close then door after you're either way alongside, or marginally infront. The funniest ones accuse you of drive bombing. Brake checkers. I could go on. These are all opportunities for SR down and penalties.

The reason they haven't fixed properly it is because its hard to program, in fact so hard human stewards still get it wrong.

Ignoring its obvious flaws the system as it is now which assigns penalties based upon whoever went off track/hit a wall first relies on both players in an collision behaving nicely to each other which when players know each other well probably isn't an issue. Sport mode however...

In my mind, as soon as players started to realise that they can assign penalies to others by just glancing a wall after contact the whole system fell apart. You start to find players looking for car contact near walls to penalise their opponents. Nudge a player, nudge a wall, the first player now has a penalty. Repeat until DQd.

I don't know how the penalty system is encouraging players in DR B (where if we're honest car control isn't that great) and below, and any SR level for that matter but usually anything less than S to spend more time playing the game. I'm not suggesting different rules for different driver ratings as that was also a disaster.

You meet plenty clows at the front as well You kinda have to join in with the track cutting party or get rear ended or bumped in corners. I have less run ins with the back than the front guys that think dive bombing the Ford chicanes is a good tactic or swerving on the straight to block you. I do tend to meet the bad fast apples more often as they crash and decent to the back.

There are still different rules for different DR and SR. Or rather different weights to penalties and SR deductions. As A/S you can get punted into the wall by a lower DR/SR player and get SR Down for it and perhaps 5 sec wall contact penalty while the perp goes free.

 

[djidane57]

just lost over 20 SR points because two cars insisted on taking the Tokyo chicane side by side even though i have the racing line , of course they bumped me , hit the wall , guess who gets the penalty each time?

 

[jr4737]

just lost over 20 SR points because two cars insisted on taking the Tokyo chicane side by side even though i have the racing line , of course they bumped me , hit the wall , guess who gets the penalty each time?

you

 

[Kwame]

Had a laugh with this bloody penalty system. FIA race last night on maggiore east. I a closely following 7th place and setting him up for a pass. For a lap and half, I'm picking inside to see how they defend. Finally i decide on my plan. On the last two turns, I notice he/she does not have a good grasp of the corner and always looks to block whatever line I take. Well, tires are now old, since I poked inside the last two laps, I fake outside this time, predictably, he/she veers out to cover it. I cut back in taking the racing line. Perfect pass as he/she is now undeserving wide. As I calmly star taking the last right turn for the straight the line, this fool fool comes back, diversions me at the apex. Since he/she cut a cross the grass to execute this diverting, I get a penalty, he/she was able to straighten out because of hitting me, finishes behind me and gets promoted up due to the penalty I got. Plus the pole sitter was actually behind all this and got past also. Two aces lost.
Theodore left the lobby instantly after the race.

PD, he was off track BEFORE hitting me. He should get the penalty!!

 

[NaketWookie]

Just yesterday i saw a DS4 fly with high velocity, straight in to a wall...
The reason?
A friend i was watching (and race directing), did Manufacturer (Lambo-Driver) on Tokyo Expressway.
He is ranked D/B now, but started with C/A. He did a good start and got to P4 all clean. Leading Pack is 3 seconds away.
On Lap 6 he got caught up by another Lambo. my friend races clean lines for not hitting the wall, the Lambo from behind really just SMASHES into him on 3 Occasions, everytime my friend hits the wall, and gets 3 Seconds penalties, while the following Lambo got nothing! At the Penalty Zone the following Lambo overtakes, gets new tires & my friend stayed out. On the end of that Lap, the Lambo is back! now in slipstream. He bumpdrafts my friend 3 times on the straight and he gets DC'd for too many contacts!

Off goes the Controller!
and i can really understand this...
Something is off... if you penalize the people who at least TRY to go clean, you are losing PlayerBase.