PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 449,184 views
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I would be banned nearly every race... yet my SR remains at 99. A Sarthe race already starts with a 919 hitting me twice form behind as they can't handle their acceleration. Then another bump is easy to happen with people draft bumping and careless braking.
We wouldn't need such a system or DQs as we have now if the game could detect fault correctly. Any tweak on the current system will penalize as many clean drivers as dirty who know how to game the system. The trolls will get different accounts to rotate through and still cause damage.
To fix the current mess PD needs to figure out the difference between a dirty block / brake check and late braking / draft bumping. It's really not that hard to figure out.
If the lead car suddenly swerves last moment into the trailing cars path right before contact, lead car is reactionary blocking. Defending is allowed yet you have to do that when the trailing car still has time to react. If the lead car brakes or slows down on a straight before the braking zone, it's the lead cars fault, with the exception when the lead car is braking for another car. The game can see all cars, it should know when you are slowing for something.
In the braking zone, it's the trailing cars fault, as well as in the corner and at corner exit if the leading car is accelerating and not stalling. Unless again when there is traffic in front. The game needs to look at more than the 2 cars making contact, just as people on the track need to be aware of traffic ahead.
Pushing / bumping cars right on the edge of the road, fault lies to the car more to the middle of the road. Give each other space, simple.
That will already solve a lot of incorrect penalties and stop the exploit of tapping a car, then a wall to give them a penalty. Draft tap a car, get a penalty yourself. Or allow draft bumping with no penalties issued as long as the lead car stays on and not bumped wide. Yet eliminate the current penalty for the lead car for getting a draft bump.
Since lobbies now often have mixed SR the game can't rely on different SR deductions anymore to keep people in certain SR ranges. Currently you get less SR deducted in lower SR so you kind of gravitate to a certain range depending on your number of contacts per race. However this drags clean drivers down that get heavy SR deductions for any contact. When a lower SR driver hits a higher one, the lower rules should apply to both.
The game needs to look at your SR history as well. Get down a lot, make it harder to gain SR. Any race where you lose SR, reduce the amount of SR you can gain in the next race. Any race where you gain SR, increase the amount you can gain in the next race. Or for example, get a penalty in a race, reduce any gain by 10%, cumulative for every race with a penalty. Reduce the multiplier for every penalty free race. End the red dot disease!
Last but not least, End the wall penalties, -5 SR instead for any wall bumps or going wide off track (and losing time). SR should also stand for safety rating. When you can't stay on the track you are not safe and will cause accidents in traffic. A penalty doesn't help, keep those for short cuts (and gaining time going wide), not for going in the sand or bumping walls. Yet off track, -5 SR. Of course sometimes you have to go off track to avoid a ghosted car or bad track re-entry. The game can see this whether you are over driving or avoiding a car going much slower than they should be / coming from off road. The SR Down should go to the car re-entering the road in an unsafe manner.
Less penalties means fewer accidents from people trying to scrub penalties in a race. Yet getting a penalty should make it harder to gain SR with a cumulative multiplier. Can't race penalty free or without touching walls, you don't belong in SR.S.
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- 2,940
- Derby, UK
- TPC_Abarber95
Fine from SR rank S tonC in a couple of weeks playing on and off because of otheto punting into me and generally just bashing into me and the lower the SR gets the harder it gets to improve it
I just raced race B in interlagos. Once again I was able to experience the complete insanity in GT sport. I start in P3 and am already rammed in the first turn by the driver who started on P5. He did not slow down, hit me hard and then slipped off the track. I was just on the track, lost 3 places and got 5 seconds penalty. The Rammer has then simply abbreviated and returned in front of me on the street. No punishment for him. At the beginning of the next round the whole thing repeats itself. I am now on P6 and see in the rearview mirror that P7 brakes much too late for T1. I try to avoid the collision, change my line and try to drive the curve outside. However, P7 strikes me easily anyway and then leaves the track. This time 3 seconds penalty. P7 is now on P6 because this driver also abbreviates. He's already off the track anyway. Again, no punishment for him. It is enough for me at this moment and I am slowly doing my punishment. Then I'm on P14 and finish the race there as well. The Rammer finish their races on P3 and P5 with blue SR rating and I have 14 points deduction. What have I done wrong in the opinion of the developers? Once I was rammed at the start and the other time I tried to prevent an accident that I did not cause. Why am I being punished? It must be possible to write an algorithm that recognizes when someone does not brake or brakes too late. If it bangs then this driver must be punished and not the one he rammed. And why is there no penalty for these drivers to cut short? They have the accident before shortening yet triggered itself. Should we all now just ram the front man to overtake him, to punish him and to be able to shorten unpunished? Are these the new rules for fairness?
- 161
- Canada
Race B kicked my ass last week and I went from a high B down to D and the only contact I had was others ramming me. I have no idea how the hell the penalty system in this game works, it's absolutely insane. The best are racing a normal line, the guy behind you trying to go around but doesn't have enough speed, backs out and I see the good old orange SR down. There was no contact, nobody hit a wall, nobody did anything but I get a penalty for normal racing.
I think I am going to completely abandon the effort to have a good SR and just drive like an asshole like everyone else I seem to race
I think I am going to completely abandon the effort to have a good SR and just drive like an asshole like everyone else I seem to race
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- 162
- France
Now I try not to care too much avout SR and I just aim for a good race. The nice part is that a win in Race A is fairly easy in SR B or C, as even the pole sitter can bottle a race in the first lap...
I'm rarely the fastest player in the race but I can easily make up by being the most consistent.
I'm rarely the fastest player in the race but I can easily make up by being the most consistent.
- 1,046
- From the native city of Ettore Bugatti
- I-Runner
I lived the same situation at Le Sarthe two weeks ago, I was from a mix of "blue" and clean races in the effort to regain the SR S rank (you can check on kudos) but after two consecutive races with the kamikaze (not capable to brake) behind i found myself D ( SR 19 from 45)..
IMHO the solution is only one: LESS DETAIL MORE LOGIC, is useless to have 4K, 8K, 16K as detail without a proper penalty sensor capable to analize causes and effects..
Esport is not only grafics or special effects, in future (tomorrow) the difference would be done by the best program overall considering every aspect of the "game/sport" especially the capacity to analize race accident properly, now Poliphony Digital is too far from this goal --
IR
Absolutely right. The best graphics is useless if the logic in the game is completely broken? GT Sport is designed for all players. So also for the casual players. This group puts a lot of emphasis on graphics. In addition, the developers do not want to be too strict with these players because otherwise they might lose their appetite for the game. I played a lot of iRacing the last 2 months. There is the graphics partially obsolete. But the penalty system is fantastic. This system, together with the vehicle damage, ensures that the races are usually absolutely clean and exciting. However, the game with its monthly contributions is very expensive. For the next GT I would like such a penalty system and vehicle damage. The graphics can be worse. The graphics interests me anyway only in the first 5 minutes of a game. After that, almost only the game logic is important. Especially with an online game, that's the most important thing. Or does anyone really have time to admire the high-resolution textures or elaborate effects during a thrilling battle?
I cam here to go ape-**** after going from SR B to SR C in a race A where at Fuji i get punted from the inside at the thrid to last corner (chicanes), and I get 3 sec penalty while the guy who divebombed AND went off track gets NOTHING.
I'm beginning to want less and less to play GT Sport (online) and as there's not much offline (at least the AI is a bit too weak at Pro level), I'll be playing more Assetto Corsa until the fix the goddamn penalty system.
Because otherwise, since the whole physics overhaul, the game is marvelous.
I'm beginning to want less and less to play GT Sport (online) and as there's not much offline (at least the AI is a bit too weak at Pro level), I'll be playing more Assetto Corsa until the fix the goddamn penalty system.
Because otherwise, since the whole physics overhaul, the game is marvelous.
K3Tuning
(Banned)
- 649
- United States
I think much of the issues may be our own fault :/
Fleecing SR like driving in the back on purpose and or killing SR intentionally to race down and get easy wins. Stuff like this has the stats almost irrelevant. You will be in rooms with SR S drivers who are dirty as a pig pen or SR B races odly with super clean drivers legitly working on stats. Q times vary so much with who's fastest being often being a clown driving as if Drunk to avoid getting drafted then last sencond swerve back into the racing line to take the corner :/ that cheese is smelly lol
The system is designed to do what we all are asking for. Seperation of the serious and the clowns. I really hope they work on this and tweak the penalties . Shouldn't be low stat players given leway while higher stat players given none, as with anything some will find ways to take advantage knowing they can take out higher stat players and most like get no penalty while laghing at the guy he took out get one.
There is a system it just needs to be refined and maybe some preventative measures against stat Fleecing
Fleecing SR like driving in the back on purpose and or killing SR intentionally to race down and get easy wins. Stuff like this has the stats almost irrelevant. You will be in rooms with SR S drivers who are dirty as a pig pen or SR B races odly with super clean drivers legitly working on stats. Q times vary so much with who's fastest being often being a clown driving as if Drunk to avoid getting drafted then last sencond swerve back into the racing line to take the corner :/ that cheese is smelly lol
The system is designed to do what we all are asking for. Seperation of the serious and the clowns. I really hope they work on this and tweak the penalties . Shouldn't be low stat players given leway while higher stat players given none, as with anything some will find ways to take advantage knowing they can take out higher stat players and most like get no penalty while laghing at the guy he took out get one.
There is a system it just needs to be refined and maybe some preventative measures against stat Fleecing
OK so after watching my gf play at C-C I noticed some weird things. It seems if you are punted from behind, but do not leave the track you get SR orange down... However, if you INTENTIONALLY move your car off the track, nothing happens.
That's really bad coding from PD if you ask me. So when I get rammed, I shouldnt stay on track, because I will be punished and the rammer goes free... WTF?
That's really bad coding from PD if you ask me. So when I get rammed, I shouldnt stay on track, because I will be punished and the rammer goes free... WTF?
Pigems
Premium
- 9,223
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
.
If you get hit and go off track/into a wall the game thinks the other driver is at fault most times and gives them a penalty, people use this on purpose to give you penalties if you bump them, they put a wheel off or graze the wall and you get a penalty. Just one more way to game the system.
If you get hit and go off track/into a wall the game thinks the other driver is at fault most times and gives them a penalty, people use this on purpose to give you penalties if you bump them, they put a wheel off or graze the wall and you get a penalty. Just one more way to game the system.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It's been like that since Sainte Croix was added. Contact not resulting in a car goingu off track, even if that car completely spins out and comes to a dead stop, is no penalty for the offender. SR Down usually goes to the car ahead (getting bumped)
To punish the rammer you have to go off track or tap a wall. That will give the other car a 1 to 5 sec time penalty depending on their DR/SR level and force of contact. You won't get SR Down in that case and only lose half the SR of an SR Down, while they lose double the SR (depending on DR/SR level)
PD has been fixing cases where a car comes from off track and hits you. That used to result in a time penalty for you as well. Any wreck tapping you, was a penalty for you. Luckily that's mostly fixed now, however it can still happen that a bump pass by someone cutting the corner can result in a penalty for the car getting bumped. Dumb game logic, contact, one car off track, other penalty, or it is resolved with an SR Down for the victim.
It's improving, slowly, until PD radically changes things again. (Before Sainte Croix it was quite different and penalties depended on the position where cars make contact. This was games as well to make successful bump passes while penalizing the victim)
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
This thread has been a joy to read. Makes you feel your not alone amongst all the bad drivers in the daily races. I believe pulling over after hitting someone is the best step in showing a good online community in the daily races. But... There will always be those dirty racers.
My one tonight was daily race c. The last tight chicane before the finish line. People nudging you to the wall on purpose as you drop into first. But keeping a cool head I caught them up each race and 9 times out of ten I'd pass them again as they have no control over there car
My one tonight was daily race c. The last tight chicane before the finish line. People nudging you to the wall on purpose as you drop into first. But keeping a cool head I caught them up each race and 9 times out of ten I'd pass them again as they have no control over there car
- 936
- Earth
- Ask me for one!
- Ask me for one!
I've got quite a hit on my SR too apart from the penalties that I get while rammed by others...dropped from S to D thanks to a couple of bad drivers ramming from behind and getting all dirty along the straight in Fuji. I've kind of endured 4 races worth with the same group of players (I kept the saved replays for amusement purposes though).
The usual practice for me is to return the position to the other party if I accidentally drive him off the track or caused a small contact, even if I get zero penalty from it. But sometimes when you're the victim of such incidents the penalty system decides that you're taking advantage and the offender gets away kinds of put things in a demoralising manner.
Interlagos at the other hand was pretty smooth except for the usual first turn and penultimate corner contact on the first lap.
(P.S. Oh no, I placed my first post in a rant thread...off to some praises first)
The usual practice for me is to return the position to the other party if I accidentally drive him off the track or caused a small contact, even if I get zero penalty from it. But sometimes when you're the victim of such incidents the penalty system decides that you're taking advantage and the offender gets away kinds of put things in a demoralising manner.
Interlagos at the other hand was pretty smooth except for the usual first turn and penultimate corner contact on the first lap.
(P.S. Oh no, I placed my first post in a rant thread...off to some praises first)
K3Tuning
(Banned)
- 649
- United States
Yeah some demo cars at Fuji tonight
That Megane lol quick on the straight some weak drivers think they special in it lol .
Some people need to realize the last car in a pack not going as fast as he could cuz others cars in front of him.
These guys draft a pack and start trying to cut through it as soon as they catch up. Have some patience, nope try and bump they way through driving as though its a time trial and nobody else around lololol then these guys cry BS. One guy last night drives wide into me as Im passing him sends me off the track n gets a penalty (good) only to do the same thing to a next car next corner.... Jerk
Tonight its been a couple knuckle heads and many trying to kill penalties as they go into turn 1 they blick you if you try to pass they slow POS car lol
Thankfully if the deck is stacked with B DR up and SR S its usually good racers
That Megane lol quick on the straight some weak drivers think they special in it lol .
Some people need to realize the last car in a pack not going as fast as he could cuz others cars in front of him.
These guys draft a pack and start trying to cut through it as soon as they catch up. Have some patience, nope try and bump they way through driving as though its a time trial and nobody else around lololol then these guys cry BS. One guy last night drives wide into me as Im passing him sends me off the track n gets a penalty (good) only to do the same thing to a next car next corner.... Jerk
Tonight its been a couple knuckle heads and many trying to kill penalties as they go into turn 1 they blick you if you try to pass they slow POS car lol
Thankfully if the deck is stacked with B DR up and SR S its usually good racers
- 161
- Canada
Why don't you just go play in open lobbies?
Disreguarding the point system kinda makes Sport mode Pointless (see what I did there) Just Saying cuz we already have too many who don't care being a PITA why add to the problem, invite them to a lobby
I’m not serious... just very frustrated. They have to make a system that removes airheads from the game
- 4,552
- Australia
- 161
- Canada
So everyone going on about racing in races with S rated Sr drivers... what a crock of ****! Made it ti S tonight and there were more ****heads in there than the B rated races. Seems to me every dick out there abuses the ratings system and races fine until they get that rating and then does anything they can to win
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
Yes, that's really a problem. Not everyone in S drives dirty but there are a lot of drivers who know exactly how they can be dirty and still get no penalties. The system is far too patchy and faulty and this is exploited. Only the developers can change that but I do not see much progress there. Many problems have not been solved since the release of the game. Maybe they do not want to improve it to not annoy the casual gamer. But this is wrong. High DR and SR ranks should only be available to players interested in fair racing. Casual gamers should have lower ranks. So these groups would be separated and there would be less trouble. But since the system does not work, these groups mix and partially destroy the races. If all the dirty players were really in SR E or F, then they could constantly ram each other off the track. That would not bother me. But the mistakes in the system also allow such drivers to reach high ranks and destroy other riders. The penalty system is by far the biggest weak spot in the game. IRacing shows how good such a system can be, but GT probably will not have that kind of thing because it's not a high priority among developers.
- 1,743
- Aussie
- Tassie_tiger
I'll probably get hammered for this, but ....
GTPlanet user: I had a couple of bad races and my SR rating tanked.
GTPlanet responds: You'll be right mate. Just drive around the back of the field for a few races.
Another GTPlanet user: I've just driven in an SR S race and they're a bunch of tools.
On a serious note and as I've always said, Yes, the SR rank of S should be far more difficult to achieve.
It should require having achieved certain aspects in racing and also maintained that requirement continuously for a set amount of time, above and beyond what is currently needed.
Particularly when it seems the main match-making criteria is SR ranking.
To also add to that, personally I would like to see mandatory qualifying for Daily Races.
I would like to see an anticipated qualifying lap time range for each DR rank.
I would like to see DR points added or subtracted for surpassing or failing to reach the time range.
I would like to see SR not only about penalties, but also influenced by "race pace", with respect to qualifying times.
And I would like to see the penalty system improved to recognise excessive early or late braking, and the SR consequences of that for both drivers should more than one person be involved in an "incident".
No doubt some people would still search to find ways around the system, but I feel this would help sort people into a more "true" ranking of both their DR and SR.
GTPlanet user: I had a couple of bad races and my SR rating tanked.
GTPlanet responds: You'll be right mate. Just drive around the back of the field for a few races.
Another GTPlanet user: I've just driven in an SR S race and they're a bunch of tools.
On a serious note and as I've always said, Yes, the SR rank of S should be far more difficult to achieve.
It should require having achieved certain aspects in racing and also maintained that requirement continuously for a set amount of time, above and beyond what is currently needed.
Particularly when it seems the main match-making criteria is SR ranking.
To also add to that, personally I would like to see mandatory qualifying for Daily Races.
I would like to see an anticipated qualifying lap time range for each DR rank.
I would like to see DR points added or subtracted for surpassing or failing to reach the time range.
I would like to see SR not only about penalties, but also influenced by "race pace", with respect to qualifying times.
And I would like to see the penalty system improved to recognise excessive early or late braking, and the SR consequences of that for both drivers should more than one person be involved in an "incident".
No doubt some people would still search to find ways around the system, but I feel this would help sort people into a more "true" ranking of both their DR and SR.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I'll probably get hammered for this, but ....
GTPlanet user: I had a couple of bad races and my SR rating tanked.
GTPlanet responds: You'll be right mate. Just drive around the back of the field for a few races.
Another GTPlanet user: I've just driven in an SR S race and they're a bunch of tools.
On a serious note and as I've always said, Yes, the SR rank of S should be far more difficult to achieve.
It should require having achieved certain aspects in racing and also maintained that requirement continuously for a set amount of time, above and beyond what is currently needed.
Particularly when it seems the main match-making criteria is SR ranking.
To also add to that, personally I would like to see mandatory qualifying for Daily Races.
I would like to see an anticipated qualifying lap time range for each DR rank.
I would like to see DR points added or subtracted for surpassing or failing to reach the time range.
I would like to see SR not only about penalties, but also influenced by "race pace", with respect to qualifying times.
And I would like to see the penalty system improved to recognise excessive early or late braking, and the SR consequences of that for both drivers should more than one person be involved in an "incident".
No doubt some people would still search to find ways around the system, but I feel this would help sort people into a more "true" ranking of both their DR and SR.
What's your beef with not qualifying?
The one thing that really needs to be fixed is the penalty for getting hit from behind while you are driving normally. Just now, race B, I brake proper for the chicane, car behind me is too late, bumps me and goes wide, 4 sec penalty for me. That was the only contact in the race, -3 SR. It's plenty strict in the daily B. (It's a joke though in the daily C, Suzaka was far too lenient and I bet Tsukaba is this week)
SR should indeed be more of a function over time. Reaching and staying in SR.S should require proper driving. Go off track, -5 SR. Hit a wall -5 SR. Spin out, -5 SR. Of course only if not getting punted or avoiding a stalled car. And make the requirement to level up to SR.S 2 consecutive clean race bonuses before promotion. One to get into SR.A. Which also only works after PD fixes the SR Down for a hit from behind.
- 1,743
- Aussie
- Tassie_tiger
I've no serious beef against not qualifying I guess.What's your beef with not qualifying?
The one thing that really needs to be fixed is the penalty for getting hit from behind while you are driving normally. Just now, race B, I brake proper for the chicane, car behind me is too late, bumps me and goes wide, 4 sec penalty for me. That was the only contact in the race, -3 SR. It's plenty strict in the daily B. (It's a joke though in the daily C, Suzaka was far too lenient and I bet Tsukaba is this week)
SR should indeed be more of a function over time. Reaching and staying in SR.S should require proper driving. Go off track, -5 SR. Hit a wall -5 SR. Spin out, -5 SR. Of course only if not getting punted or avoiding a stalled car. And make the requirement to level up to SR.S 2 consecutive clean race bonuses before promotion. One to get into SR.A. Which also only works after PD fixes the SR Down for a hit from behind.
And I can understand that's it's a bit of fun and a good challenge.
But if we want drivers in their true DR/SR ranks, if we want better match-making, and if we want fairness for all drivers in the race, it seems to me people should be qualifying appropriately and being placed on the grid accordingly.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Actually qualifying messes with how the DR system works. If nobody would qualify, eventually people will be sorted on race pace. The DR exchange system works like a bubble sort algorithm. Adding qualifying times messes up the order, having people start out of their DR ranking order.
There is no way to ensure everyone puts the same effort into qualifying and with the way it works now it relies way too much on that one golden lap you have a whole week for to get. A golden lap with high placement, to then hold up traffic behind and causing accidents is far more disruptive to the ranking system than simply order entries by DR. I see it all the time, new accounts or DR resets, C/S, B/S on pole, higher DR behind. In essence qualifying is a cheat to get a head start
For better rankings, sort people on DR on the grid. Easy fix.
(DR tries to sort people on finish position, racecraft. Qualifying sorts people on hot lap ability. Two different things)
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