PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[K3Tuning]

We've been saying S rank SR is pretty darn easy to get. Can get it almost right away just drive clean and people fleece it all the time (probably biggest issue). Its however no indication of driver ability, DR is though and its less easy of a nut to fleece.

Guys with higher DR like high B and up with S rank DR tend to be fast and relatively clean. The better my stats get the further to the back I start lol means less wins against fast drivers and its harder and harder to gain DR.

I think maybe one needs to have a good DR stat for the S rank SR to churn the drivers we are talking about. Just having an SRS is not enough.

Wrong. Open lobbies are usually more enjoyable because if you're an asshole the host will just kick out.

I don't fully agree with you. Some folks think some dirty stuff is clean and only bark at the stuff they don't like not to mention take sides in a heart beat with buddies.

What's cool about Sport is the stats once you get them good enough have a portion of drivers Racing to be Clean, dancing the fine line of pushing fir a W and courteous driving, also the leveling of the playing field BoP on the cars, so if one car is fastest at the track of the week everybody can use same car same set up. Q times are a much better way to set the grid and give benefits to working on the Q time.

Effort needs to be made so folks can't fleece Q times as this is an issue but if you out pace the bad drivers they are not an issue not always easy but once you get your DR up the harder thing becomes getting those wins. Not everybody puts in the same effort but those who do start in a better position to win and thats incentive .

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Actually qualifying messes with how the DR system works. If nobody would qualify, eventually people will be sorted on race pace.

How does the game sort people on race pace before the race has started?

The DR exchange system works like a bubble sort algorithm. Adding qualifying times messes up the order, having people start out of their DR ranking order.

You mean like a DR A driver starting behind DR C drivers because they can't be bothered to qualify?

There is no way to ensure everyone puts the same effort into qualifying

Same effort? Perhaps not. But at least some effort, and a semi-decent one if qualifying was mandatory with a minimum lap time appropriate to their DR rank.

and with the way it works now it relies way too much on that one golden lap you have a whole week for to get.

Only at the end of the week.

A golden lap with high placement, to then hold up traffic behind and causing accidents is far more disruptive to the ranking system than simply order entries by DR.

As opposed to a slow lap or no lap with low placement forcing their way past opponents they should already be in front of?

I see it all the time, new accounts or DR resets, C/S, B/S on pole, higher DR behind. In essence qualifying is a cheat to get a head start

Qualifying is a cheat? Dude, Please.

For better rankings, sort people on DR on the grid. Easy fix.

"I would like to see an anticipated qualifying lap time range for each DR rank.
I would like to see DR points added or subtracted for surpassing or failing to reach the time range."

Over time, that's exactly what I would see happening.
Someone in DR A should out qualify someone in DR B.
If everyone qualified appropriately the grid should essentially go down in order of DR.
There will of course be exceptions, and some people may spend more time on their qualy lap than actually racing, but in the long run it should sort itself out.

Grid people where they should be gridded.
And let the cards fall where they may.


Don't get me wrong.
I'm not trying to say that what I've suggested is some sort of miracle cure.
The game has many areas that need improving, including some aspects of the penalty system and match-making.
But at least putting people on the grid in a position more aligned with their true speed and DR rank sounds like a good start to me.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

How does the game sort people on race pace before the race has started?

You mean like a DR A driver starting behind DR C drivers because they can't be bothered to qualify?

Same effort? Perhaps not. But at least some effort, and a semi-decent one if qualifying was mandatory with a minimum lap time appropriate to their DR rank.

Only at the end of the week.

As opposed to a slow lap or no lap with low placement forcing their way past opponents they should already be in front of?

Qualifying is a cheat? Dude, Please.

"I would like to see an anticipated qualifying lap time range for each DR rank.
I would like to see DR points added or subtracted for surpassing or failing to reach the time range."

Over time, that's exactly what I would see happening.
Someone in DR A should out qualify someone in DR B.
If everyone qualified appropriately the grid should essentially go down in order of DR.
There will of course be exceptions, and some people may spend more time on their qualy lap than actually racing, but in the long run it should sort itself out.

Grid people where they should be gridded.
And let the cards fall where they may.


Don't get me wrong.
I'm not trying to say that what I've suggested is some sort of miracle cure.
The game has many areas that need improving, including the aspects of the penalty system and match-making.
But at least putting people on the grid in a position more aligned with their true speed and DR rank sounds like a good start to me.

I'm half joking when I say qualifying is a cheat, only half though. You hang on to the notion that qualifying pace should match race pace and vice versa. That might be true at the very top, north of 60K DR. The correlation quickly degrades under that. You can get a golden lap on Monday as well. Some people qualify for 3 laps, some for 75 laps.

Now for fun, let's work out a non qualifying system.

For each track, sort people on DR specific to that track.
If similar DR, sort on experience, miles driven on that track.
People will swap positions based on their speed, consistency and race craft.
Eventually each track will have perfect DR distribution.
If you misbehave, a DR reset will actually put you to the back of the pack instead of given you easy pole positions.


As an intermediate system, sort people on DR rank first, then qualifying pace.
That way your DR letter means something. (Why else do you get/lose an extra 1500 points for crossing a boundary)
Then we have multi-class racing and you will have to prove you belong in a higher DR rank by actually overtaking people.
No more problems with DR.C starting before DR.A


Hang on to qualifying as the only way to order people:
- Do not allow using another car in race, qualifying times should be tied to the car.
- Qualify under the same conditions with out lap and all.
- Negate lap time when going outside track limits.
That should order people closer to their in race speed.

 

[K3Tuning]

How does the game sort people on race pace before the race has started?

Agreed, and using the same logic how could they determin a race pace per event per class then what points for using wheels nit using assist blah blah blah that's not racing.

Grid position determined by qualifying lap (cheaters aside) places drivers where their pace should have them. However drafting is manipulated to increase overtaking (as is done in racing F1 & NASCAR for example) so positions can swap.

You mean like a DR A driver starting behind DR C drivers because they can't be bothered to qualify?

I agree, maybe they should pool non qualifiers into a race with random grid but that would over complicate things, just stuff them in the back and if they good and clean drivers that should be in the front they will get closer without causing carnage.

Qualifying times in the end only tell if a driver is quick they don't show if that driver can race.

Same effort? Perhaps not. But at least some effort, and a semi-decent one if qualifying was mandatory with a minimum lap time appropriate to their DR rank.

Only at the end of the week.

Yeah I agree up to the minimum lap times, as silly as it is to determine grid positions without a qualifying lap.

This is a bought game at the end of the day and for the most part tries to simulate racing where simple things have been going on since pretty much the beginning .

One of which is qualifying laps determine grid never with a pre set minimum time and since PD are trying to fill rooms inevitably if a minimum was set, they would have to let some who couldn't make it through or rooms would have less people in them contrary to the direction PD efforts appear to be heading.

As opposed to a slow lap or no lap with low placement forcing their way past opponents they should already be in front of?

Only an issue if they are incapable dirt drivers. As before if they should be up front they should get closer without caysing carnage. If they are dirty im glad they want to be at the back to start, so the front pack has less issues dealing with them

Qualifying is a cheat? Dude, Please.

Agreed however I think hes more refering to people who cheat it taking short cuts and run offs they test to be sure no penalties. Who can't actually drive the track proper to get those times..

Its an issue PD needs to work on for some tracks. Is what it is.

"I would like to see an anticipated qualifying lap time range for each DR rank.
I would like to see DR points added or subtracted for surpassing or failing to reach the time range."

I find the concept a good idea with good intentions but not something that would actually work unfortunately

Over time, that's exactly what I would see happening.
Someone in DR A should out qualify someone in DR B.
If everyone qualified appropriately the grid should essentially go down in order of DR.
There will of course be exceptions, and some people may spend more time on their qualy lap than actually racing, but in the long run it should sort itself out.

All sort of a rainbow pipe dream theory. I dont think those ideas work in a game attempting to have some automobile racing going on.

Grid people where they should be gridded.
And let the cards fall where they may.

Yeah, its called Qualifying Lap

That's just simple and how's its done. Silly to have it any other way glad its back to some extent lol now career mode needs it

Don't get me wrong.
I'm not trying to say that what I've suggested is some sort of miracle cure.
The game has many areas that need improving, including some aspects of the penalty system and match-making.
But at least putting people on the grid in a position more aligned with their true speed and DR rank sounds like a good start to me.

Yeah this is where in my opinion effort can be put that won't go to waist.

Improve the penalties & track limits as much as possible.

That's it, no crazy new twist to add in changing things making it more of a video arcade game & less of a racing game trying to be somewhat of a simulator.

They have made changes as I understand and they need to analyze how it plays out so its a slow process to find holes and code them out. Hopefully it gets better. .

 

[PerformLAB1]

I'm half joking when I say qualifying is a cheat, only half though. You hang on to the notion that qualifying pace should match race pace and vice versa. That might be true at the very top, north of 60K DR. The correlation quickly degrades under that. You can get a golden lap on Monday as well. Some people qualify for 3 laps, some for 75 laps.

To me this makes no sense what so ever. So what you say is that, since I am a DR A, at around 35-37K, on the times where I get matched in a mostly A+ lobby, I should not be allowed to out qualify some of the guys that are a higher DR than me?

That's like saying Lewis Hamilton should be on pole for every race next season, because he won the championship last year. It makes no sense at all... Qualifying is apart of every (or just about) motorsport. It is 50% of the race, it is where you forge what results you will have in the race.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I was going to put this conversation on hold and do some driving.
But I had to force a shut down of my console due to loss of the HDMI handshake between PS4 and TV.
All is good regarding all my stats., cars, etc., but I've lost all the thumbnails of my garage cars.
423 car thumbnails are taking quite some time to re-load, so I'm back.

I'm half joking when I say qualifying is a cheat, only half though. You hang on to the notion that qualifying pace should match race pace and vice versa. That might be true at the very top, north of 60K DR. The correlation quickly degrades under that. You can get a golden lap on Monday as well. Some people qualify for 3 laps, some for 75 laps.

Now for fun, let's work out a non qualifying system.

For each track, sort people on DR specific to that track.
If similar DR, sort on experience, miles driven on that track.
People will swap positions based on their speed, consistency and race craft.
Eventually each track will have perfect DR distribution.
If you misbehave, a DR reset will actually put you to the back of the pack instead of given you easy pole positions.


As an intermediate system, sort people on DR rank first, then qualifying pace.
That way your DR letter means something. (Why else do you get/lose an extra 1500 points for crossing a boundary)
Then we have multi-class racing and you will have to prove you belong in a higher DR rank by actually overtaking people.
No more problems with DR.C starting before DR.A


Hang on to qualifying as the only way to order people:
- Do not allow using another car in race, qualifying times should be tied to the car.
- Qualify under the same conditions with out lap and all.
- Negate lap time when going outside track limits.
That should order people closer to their in race speed.

Apologies for not thinking of the "cheat" qualy laps due to rubbish track limits.
That's a fair call.
But hopefully a rarity and insignificant in the long run.

I'm not being so blind as to consider qualy and race pace the same.
I get that.
And I get that it varies from person to person.
But I don't see why that should be a reason to totally ignore qualifying and just say something along the lines of "Ahhh, forget it. It doesn't matter anyway".
And I'm not suggesting that the grid should be ordered solely on qualy times.
I'm with you on incorporating DR along with other aspects to determine the grid.
I feel the current system needs revamping with less emphasis put on SR and other areas playing a larger role.

But I'm pretty sure out there in the real world of motor racing that most people give their best when qualifying.
I'm not sure why a racing game should approach it any different.

I'm simply trying to create an incentive for people to qualify close to their individual ability while also discouraging people from sandbagging it because they think they can gain an some sort of advantage from doing so.

And speaking of which -

Agreed, and using the same logic how could they determin a race pace per event per class then what points for using wheels nit using assist blah blah blah that's not racing.

Grid position determined by qualifying lap (cheaters aside) places drivers where their pace should have them. However drafting is manipulated to increase overtaking (as is done in racing F1 & NASCAR for example) so positions can swap.




I agree, maybe they should pool non qualifiers into a race with random grid but that would over complicate things, just stuff them in the back and if they good and clean drivers that should be in the front they will get closer without causing carnage.

Qualifying times in the end only tell if a driver is quick they don't show if that driver can race.



Yeah I agree up to the minimum lap times, as silly as it is to determine grid positions without a qualifying lap.

This is a bought game at the end of the day and for the most part tries to simulate racing where simple things have been going on since pretty much the beginning .

One of which is qualifying laps determine grid never with a pre set minimum time and since PD are trying to fill rooms inevitably if a minimum was set, they would have to let some who couldn't make it through or rooms would have less people in them contrary to the direction PD efforts appear to be heading.




Only an issue if they are incapable dirt drivers. As before if they should be up front they should get closer without caysing carnage. If they are dirty im glad they want to be at the back to start, so the front pack has less issues dealing with them



Agreed however I think hes more refering to people who cheat it taking short cuts and run offs they test to be sure no penalties. Who can't actually drive the track proper to get those times..

Its an issue PD needs to work on for some tracks. Is what it is.



I find the concept a good idea with good intentions but not something that would actually work unfortunately



All sort of a rainbow pipe dream theory. I dont think those ideas work in a game attempting to have some automobile racing going on.



Yeah, its called Qualifying Lap

That's just simple and how's its done. Silly to have it any other way glad its back to some extent lol now career mode needs it



Yeah this is where in my opinion effort can be put that won't go to waist.

Improve the penalties & track limits as much as possible.

That's it, no crazy new twist to add in changing things making it more of a video arcade game & less of a racing game trying to be somewhat of a simulator.

They have made changes as I understand and they need to analyze how it plays out so its a slow process to find holes and code them out. Hopefully it gets better. .

Yep, you may be right.
It may all be pie in the sky and make very little difference.

But hey, I can't see it doing any harm.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

To me this makes no sense what so ever. So what you say is that, since I am a DR A, at around 35-37K, on the times where I get matched in a mostly A+ lobby, I should not be allowed to out qualify some of the guys that are a higher DR than me?

That's like saying Lewis Hamilton should be on pole for every race next season, because he won the championship last year. It makes no sense at all... Qualifying is apart of every (or just about) motorsport. It is 50% of the race, it is where you forge what results you will have in the race.

Yet qualifying in real life has real risks, real tire wear, real time limits etc. Plus you're usually not alone on the track either.
GT Sport mixes different classes together. What happens with multi-class racing in real life, they start in their own groups!

Anyway I don't mind the way it works now as starting last is my goal

I was going to put this conversation on hold and do some driving.
But I had to force a shut down of my console due to loss of the HDMI handshake between PS4 and TV.
All is good regarding all my stats., cars, etc., but I've lost all the thumbnails of my garage cars.
423 car thumbnails are taking quite some time to re-load, so I'm back.


Apologies for not thinking of the "cheat" qualy laps due to rubbish track limits.
That's a fair call.
But hopefully a rarity and insignificant in the long run.

I'm not being so blind as to consider qualy and race pace the same.
I get that.
And I get that it varies from person to person.
But I don't see why that should be a reason to totally ignore qualifying and just say something along the lines of "Ahhh, forget it. It doesn't matter anyway".
And I'm not suggesting that the grid should be ordered solely on qualy times.
I'm with you on incorporating DR along with other aspects to determine the grid.
I feel the current system needs revamping with less emphasis put on SR and other areas playing a larger role.

But I'm pretty sure out there in the real world of motor racing that most people give their best when qualifying.
I'm not sure why a racing game should approach it any different.

I'm simply trying to create an incentive for people to qualify close to their individual ability while also discouraging people from sandbagging it because they think they can gain an some sort of advantage from doing so.

And speaking of which -

Yep, you may be right.
It may all be pie in the sky and make very little difference.

But hey, I can't see it doing any harm.

Taking experience into account would be a good step. DR per track will help (or rather SR per track as SR is the primary factor in match making). Get rid of the DR resets whic also screws up the DR of people the 'resets' qualify and finish in front of.

Improving the way qualifying works will help. It's unrealistic to qualify in one car with different optimal tires, no fuel weight, no time limits, perfect conditions, then enter the race with whatever you like.

 

[K3Tuning]

Yeah I agree with buddy on importance of qualifying lap.

In real life racing as in the game getting into T1 faster than the rest can avoid much of the T1 carnage.

Carnage I might add that's in the game and people complain but its also very prevalent in real life.

I'm against all stat Fleecing and I would agree making qualifying mandatory should be done & I also agree q times should be tied to car. So dumb can use 1 Q time for any eligible car.

Fleecing stats even if its just to get you back where you were before somebody else hurt you IMO is us screwing up the system then complaining about the system not working. We dont let it balance out then get mad its unbalanced.


Over complicating and making things less inviting actually can do harm. Pushing users away when trying to draw them in is counterproductive. If in the end ONLY the hard core guys are happy, PD won't be as that group is not big enough a market for PD being a Console game after all not a full on PC simulator.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Yep, indeed.
Couldn't agree more. 👍
The car you set your qualifying time in is the car you race in.
Wish to race in a different car? Set a new qualy time in that car.
Should have been the case since day 1.

Apologies.
I seem to have lead the discussion into more of a DR/SR/Qualy conversation.
I'll let it get back to a "penalty system is **** " conversation, and go do some driving.

 

[rono_thomas]

So the question is why isnt it like that?

 

[Voodoovaj]

So the question is why isnt it like that?

Easy, you would need to either qualify again after every car change, or you would need to store a qualifying time for every car. In the first scenario, you would need delete the time on a car change, thereby requiring you to qualify your fastest car again after a car switch. The time rankings would then be constantly in flux as people change cars.

If you go with the second scenario, how to do display and rank that? Do you show the fastest of all cars on the ranking board, or do you change the ranking board every time you switch cars? How do you remember/track the fastest car in your garage?

And really, what's the point? The difference between most cars that I race in any given event is about 0.1-0.5 seconds. More than that, and I don't use the car.

If qualifying needs to take place before every race and isn't store at all, like the FIA races, then Race C would happen once an hour and Race A and B would be twice an hour. Not to mention, WOW would that get tedious.

As it is now, it's greatly encouraging taking the time to get your lines right and to learn the track.

 

[SCPH1000]

Well, this is new to me, I've been disqualified 3 races in a row for being hit to many times, or rather the game thinks I'm hitting people on purpose ( I presume). I won't even bother to tell you much DR I've lost - but lets just say I may as well have had gt sport for a week (yup - that bad)

 

[weazelgt]

Well, this is new to me, I've been disqualified 3 races in a row for being hit to many times, or rather the game thinks I'm hitting people on purpose ( I presume). I won't even bother to tell you much DR I've lost - but lets just say I may as well have had gt sport for a week (yup - that bad)

I've was beat up so much last night I decided to get revenge each time and my DR went down about 2800 points. I honestly couldnt care less about the DR rating at that point and had enough.

The best part was after one of the races one of the airheads actually started losing it on me in the chat until I said "just got you back, fun stuff hey?"

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Easy, you would need to either qualify again after every car change, or you would need to store a qualifying time for every car. In the first scenario, you would need delete the time on a car change, thereby requiring you to qualify your fastest car again after a car switch. The time rankings would then be constantly in flux as people change cars.

If you go with the second scenario, how to do display and rank that? Do you show the fastest of all cars on the ranking board, or do you change the ranking board every time you switch cars? How do you remember/track the fastest car in your garage?

And really, what's the point? The difference between most cars that I race in any given event is about 0.1-0.5 seconds. More than that, and I don't use the car.

If qualifying needs to take place before every race and isn't store at all, like the FIA races, then Race C would happen once an hour and Race A and B would be twice an hour. Not to mention, WOW would that get tedious.

As it is now, it's greatly encouraging taking the time to get your lines right and to learn the track.

Your argument of it being a hassle makes sense for daily races. Now we have weeklies there is no reason not to store a qualifying time per car. You can switch between friend rankings and top 10, how much more work is it to switch the display order between best time per player or best times per car.

Qualifying as it is now is pretty far removed from the actual race. Handling is different, can qualify with different tires, and not long ago we had a weekly where most people qualified in one car, to race in a different one. One to qualify on softs, the other to race with tire wear.

Anyway, I'm just highlighting the fallacy between qualifying and DR ranking. Personally I couldn't care less about qualifying The game doesn't care much either as SR and DR come before qualifying times. It's just now that attendance is so low that DR is constantly mixed in rooms giving qualifying time more purpose than originally intended. Last year you could set a top 10 time as DR.B and still start behind all the rooms with the higher DR crowd in them.

 

[K3Tuning]

How can we tell how many active players?

How small is the pool of drivers that clean drivers always get mixed in with dirty ones making penalty avoidance an issue. If the pool were large enough and we work our stats high enough theoretically we should be with clean drivers only, so the stress over odd penalties would be reduced.

I mean it is the most recent GT how bad could it be

 

[Voodoovaj]

Your argument of it being a hassle makes sense for daily races. Now we have weeklies there is no reason not to store a qualifying time per car. You can switch between friend rankings and top 10, how much more work is it to switch the display order between best time per player or best times per car.

Old thread and off topic, so why not run with it?

What's the point of adding that feature? It seems to me that this is a thought process that is along the lines of banning driver aids.

Spending effort to try and slow down or somehow handicap other drivers is a counter productive downward spiral. If, for instance, PD were to implement all manner of handicapping, and a person is still slow, where does that person go from there? It's an outward directed waste of time. If any one person is slower or losing, the only place to direct effort is in oneself.

We all have the ability to put effort into our own qualifying time. Is there a META car? great, use it. Aids help? Great, use them. It's up to you to manage yourself. Each one of us has 100% control over ourselves.

My rules are this:
- No aids other than ABS. For better or worse, that's the way I play.
- I tend to race the car I qualify, because it's my fastest in the race as well, until I feel like I want a change.
- Lastly, and i have been saying this since the day of release DRIVING CONES AND DRIVING MARKERS!! Those two items are the least appreciated features in this game and can VASTLY improve your time.

I did it. I was always floating around DR A/B. I said to myself "how are those guys doing those times?". I decided to make a concerted effort to focus on getting my DR to A+ and get my lap times down. The result is that I am firmly entrenched in A+ now and may lap times are nice and fast. I can only control myself, so I focused on myself.

 

[K3Tuning]

For the most part Penalties & Ranking seem to work when not being fleeced. To my understanding higher ranked drivers would not be matched with lower ranked penalty dispensers if the pool of players were large enough with enough high rank players to have separation.

I look at my DR thingie say "top 2%" when I only have 28k makes no sense to me. So only 2% have 28k or above? Small pool if so for 24/7 races.

Love the cones but hate the floating markers. So glad the dynamic driving line is at least no longer dynamic lol I think that stupid line created a generation of terrible drivers who only know how to follow the line. Floating markers is just as BS to me but cones, cones I like because its real. I dont even always use them but they give me a general idea of where to start looking for a braking marker be it a shadow, a tree coming into sight, a crack on the pavement or painted line.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

How can we tell how many active players?

How small is the pool clean drivers divers always get mixed in with dirty making penalty avoidance an issue. If the pool large enough and we work our stats high enough theoretically we should be with clean drivers only, so the stress over odd penalties would be reduced.

According to KP, there are about 30k active players a day.
63% of that is on the Europe server -> 18.9k
About 16% on the current NA server -> 4,800 players a day.

About 15% of players (that have completed at least 5 sport races) are in SR.S -> 720 SR.S players a day in NA.
There are 8 races per hour, 192 a day, always 3 going at the same time.

For the most part Penalties & Ranking seem to work when not being fleeced. To my understanding higher ranked drivers would not be matched with lower ranked penalty dispensers if the pool of players were large enough with enough high rank players to have separation.

I look at my DR thingie say "top 2%" when I only have 28k makes no sense to me. So only 2% have 28k or above? Small pool if so for 24/7 races.

Love the cones but hate the floating markers. So glad the dynamic driving line is at least no longer dynamic lol I think that stupid line created a generation of terrible drivers who only know how to follow the line. Floating markers is just as BS to me but cones, cones I like because its real. I dont even always use them but they give me a general idea of where to start looking for a braking marker be it a shadow, a tree coming into sight, a crack on the pavement or painted line.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=dr_distribution_sliced
Yes, DR is a pyramid, zero sum exchange system. Without the 75K cap eventually all the points would be in the hand of a few A+ drivers!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Old thread and off topic, so why not run with it?

What's the point of adding that feature? It seems to me that this is a thought process that is along the lines of banning driver aids.

Spending effort to try and slow down or somehow handicap other drivers is a counter productive downward spiral. If, for instance, PD were to implement all manner of handicapping, and a person is still slow, where does that person go from there? It's an outward directed waste of time. If any one person is slower or losing, the only place to direct effort is in oneself.

We all have the ability to put effort into our own qualifying time. Is there a META car? great, use it. Aids help? Great, use them. It's up to you to manage yourself. Each one of us has 100% control over ourselves.

My rules are this:
- No aids other than ABS. For better or worse, that's the way I play.
- I tend to race the car I qualify, because it's my fastest in the race as well, until I feel like I want a change.
- Lastly, and i have been saying this since the day of release DRIVING CONES AND DRIVING MARKERS!! Those two items are the least appreciated features in this game and can VASTLY improve your time.

I did it. I was always floating around DR A/B. I said to myself "how are those guys doing those times?". I decided to make a concerted effort to focus on getting my DR to A+ and get my lap times down. The result is that I am firmly entrenched in A+ now and may lap times are nice and fast. I can only control myself, so I focused on myself.

Good point, although I don't really see the connection between driving aids and using a different car / tires / weight / track limits to qualify. It's 2 different games.

Now I think about, we're avoiding the same problem, in completely opposite ways You practice and qualify well, pick and choose your races carefully to start in the top 3, to avoid any problems other drivers or the penalty system might throw at you, to make sure you keep A+. I forego qualifying, start in the back and avoid people in the race to keep SR.S while weaving through traffic.

It's great that GTS can be fun for how ever you want to approach racing!

 

[Veinz]

That is such a painful way to race Sven.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

That is such a painful way to race Sven.

For some maybe. I've always enjoyed weaving through traffic since Hyper Rally on the MSX.

GT has always been, start in the back, make it to the front. Why approach it differently for online races

 

[K3Tuning]

GT has always been, start in the back, make it to the front. Why approach it differently for online races

Actually GT started with qualifying originally. I think it was like a 3 lap Q before each race but don't quote be its been 20 to 15 years


When the stats go up eventually you get familiar with some racers, people are generally clean and results look like this

 

[Dorofint]

Actually qualifying messes with how the DR system works. If nobody would qualify, eventually people will be sorted on race pace. The DR exchange system works like a bubble sort algorithm. Adding qualifying times messes up the order, having people start out of their DR ranking order.

There is no way to ensure everyone puts the same effort into qualifying and with the way it works now it relies way too much on that one golden lap you have a whole week for to get. A golden lap with high placement, to then hold up traffic behind and causing accidents is far more disruptive to the ranking system than simply order entries by DR. I see it all the time, new accounts or DR resets, C/S, B/S on pole, higher DR behind. In essence qualifying is a cheat to get a head start

For better rankings, sort people on DR on the grid. Easy fix.
(DR tries to sort people on finish position, racecraft. Qualifying sorts people on hot lap ability. Two different things)

You're absolutely right. Drivers with this one golden lap start the race in the wrong place. Of course, they do not want to lose their great placement and do everything to defend them. Then brake tests are made and ultra aggressively defended. I often see these drivers changing their lines in the braking phase and steer exactly in the track of the pursuers. Basically, they only focus on their back. By doing so, they slow down all drivers behind them and very often cause unjustified punishment. But you do not have to abolish the qualification completely. I think it would be best if you can train indefinitely but only have a limited time or a limited number of laps to qualify. Then you can prepare well but do not spend hours trying to make this one golden lap.

 

[K3Tuning]

It would be silly any other way. Just work for better q times and the reward is the same as in real life.

IRL they use Q tune on engine Q tires so they aint running the exact same as in the race. No need to freak out just work at those times. If you the fastest one on the Grid it really dont matter and if you're not well it really dont matter.

If he's bumping around and ahead of you you need get by him if hes behind you, you need worry about getting punted.

Hopefully with a lager pool for dailies as of 17th the bottom half of the pack closer in stats to the front.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Y...Drivers with this one golden lap start the race in the wrong place.

One golden lap? Really? Or maybe the other laps are garage and you aren't trying to improve.

MOST of the folks with good qualifying times will lap within 1/2 second of that qualifying time. When I look at my race laps, they are usually faster than some qualifying laps on others on my friends list. Calling them "golden" laps is an incredibly cynical way of looking at it. I had set a 1:37.7 (before PD deleted the times). To get that qualifying time, I was consistently lapping in the low 1:38's and high 1:37's

It's going to be a MAHOOSIVE stretch for someone to get a low 1:37 qualifying, yet race in the 1:40's for instance. It's akin to winning the lottery.

I HATE HATE HATE the term "golden lap" because it's baloney. That golden lap is the lap where a player got things right. Keep trying to match it and you'll get better.


Mind you, all I have said is now out the window with the return of a unified North and South America server. Godspeed be with anyone racing Sport Mode now.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@Voodoovaj So far it's about 8-2 for NA vs SA ramming me off at Dragon tail. SA makes up about 30% of the grid. Even compensating for that NA are the dirtier drivers!

Golden laps are usually where people quit qualifying, or when the next lap is slower. The difference between quali time and best laps in race was far bigger on Sarthe (2:57 top 10, 3:04 in race) Different tires.

Penalties seem to be bigger, but still early to tell. Less 1 sec and more 5 sec penalties dished out so far. Could just be a fluke.

 

[Dorofint]

One golden lap? Really? Or maybe the other laps are garage and you aren't trying to improve.

MOST of the folks with good qualifying times will lap within 1/2 second of that qualifying time. When I look at my race laps, they are usually faster than some qualifying laps on others on my friends list. Calling them "golden" laps is an incredibly cynical way of looking at it. I had set a 1:37.7 (before PD deleted the times). To get that qualifying time, I was consistently lapping in the low 1:38's and high 1:37's

It's going to be a MAHOOSIVE stretch for someone to get a low 1:37 qualifying, yet race in the 1:40's for instance. It's akin to winning the lottery.

I HATE HATE HATE the term "golden lap" because it's baloney. That golden lap is the lap where a player got things right. Keep trying to match it and you'll get better.


Mind you, all I have said is now out the window with the return of a unified North and South America server. Godspeed be with anyone racing Sport Mode now.

Golden lap is the right expression. I see that again and again. And I have already tried this myself a few times. There are e.g. some chicanes in which I can find massive time when I take them full throttle. But this works only in one of 10 or 20 trys because I am usually exempted from the curbs, got a penalty for track limits or have to hit an adjacent wall perfectly in order not to be slowed down by her. Especially if you excite the track limits you can win a lot of time. In the qualification that is not a problem because you theoretically have infinitely many attempts and someday you succeed. Then you have a golden lap. Of course, that does not work in the race. The risk of accidents and punishment would be far too high. So all with such a lap are much slower in the race. When I see how many riders start in front of me in the race but are much slower then me then I suspect that many were on the hunt for this one golden lap.

 

[Voodoovaj]

@Voodoovaj So far it's about 8-2 for NA vs SA ramming me off at Dragon tail. SA makes up about 30% of the grid. Even compensating for that NA are the dirtier drivers!

Golden laps are usually where people quit qualifying, or when the next lap is slower. The difference between quali time and best laps in race was far bigger on Sarthe (2:57 top 10, 3:04 in race) Different tires.

Penalties seem to be bigger, but still early to tell. Less 1 sec and more 5 sec penalties dished out so far. Could just be a fluke.

Well, at those times when my ratings have been tanked because of others, it's always been Brazilians. It's not even a discussion. Not even any other South American country. Have I been knocked off track or hit by others? Sure. Has anyone else gone out of their way to try and ruin my ratings? Nope. Just them. It's happens with far too much frequency to be a fluke. Then again, you like to start at the back so maybe you run with a different crowd.

Golden lap is the right expression. I see that again and again. And I have already tried this myself a few times. There are e.g. some chicanes in which I can find massive time when I take them full throttle. But this works only in one of 10 or 20 trys because I am usually exempted from the curbs, got a penalty for track limits or have to hit an adjacent wall perfectly in order not to be slowed down by her. Especially if you excite the track limits you can win a lot of time. In the qualification that is not a problem because you theoretically have infinitely many attempts and someday you succeed. Then you have a golden lap. Of course, that does not work in the race. The risk of accidents and punishment would be far too high. So all with such a lap are much slower in the race. When I see how many riders start in front of me in the race but are much slower then me then I suspect that many were on the hunt for this one golden lap.

What you are calling a "golden lap" is lack of practice. I know exactly what you are talking about when it comes to "some chicanes". We have one this week. If you are only hitting it correctly 1/10 or 1/20 times, then just practice that chicane. For me, I screw up the chicane 1/5 to 1/10 times. I might screw it up REALLY bad 1/50 times.

Sure, some get that one good lap in among a series of bad laps, but calling it a "golden lap" implies that there is some exploit or bug involved, as there has been on some tracks or past versions of the game. That's not the case.

All you are describing is the early stages of the practice process for any activity. I've done lots of sports, and it's the same process every time. I try to achieve a given act (home run, long pass, whatever). At first. I can't do it at all. Then, I can do it ok, but not well. Then I get what could be termed a "golden" execution. Then, golden becomes a regular occurrence. Lastly, "golden" becomes the norm. No one performs well on a regular basis without putting in the time.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Old thread and off topic, so why not run with it?

Fair enough. I'll just add a touch more then.

What's the point of adding that feature? It seems to me that this is a thought process that is along the lines of banning driver aids.

Spending effort to try and slow down or somehow handicap other drivers is a counter productive downward spiral. If, for instance, PD were to implement all manner of handicapping, and a person is still slow, where does that person go from there? It's an outward directed waste of time. If any one person is slower or losing, the only place to direct effort is in oneself.

I can't see the relationship.
Asking someone to drive the same car in the race as the one they set their qualifying time in is somehow handicapping people?
Nope.
It's simply putting people on the grid in the correct position relative to the time they are capable of ... for that car.

Easy, you would need to either qualify again after every car change, or you would need to store a qualifying time for every car. In the first scenario, you would need delete the time on a car change, thereby requiring you to qualify your fastest car again after a car switch. The time rankings would then be constantly in flux as people change cars.

If you go with the second scenario, how to do display and rank that? Do you show the fastest of all cars on the ranking board, or do you change the ranking board every time you switch cars? How do you remember/track the fastest car in your garage?

I think you are over-complicating things.
Yes, your fastest qualy time is your fastest qualy time.
And the Leaderboards reflect that time.
Just as it is now.

Want to race in a different cars? Yes, you set a new qualy time for that car.
If it's faster the Leaderboard changes, if not then it doesn't.
As for gridding, the game has the ability to know your best lap on a track in different cars.
It's exactly what Time Trial does now.

And really, what's the point? The difference between most cars that I race in any given event is about 0.1-0.5 seconds. More than that, and I don't use the car.

That's a fair call.
But some events it can make a significant difference.
Race C at Le Mans recently would be a good example.
People used 919's or R18's to qualy because they were the fastest, then raced in cars like the 908 because it could no-stop the race.

If qualifying needs to take place before every race and isn't store at all, like the FIA races, then Race C would happen once an hour and Race A and B would be twice an hour. Not to mention, WOW would that get tedious.

Ahh, I see.
No, I'm not saying it needs to be done before every single race.
I'm just asking that people to set a qualy time before they can race, and a qualy lap somewhat representative of their ability.
The vast majority of people already do that now anyway.
But as it currently stands, people can race all week and never set a qualy time.

As it is now, it's greatly encouraging taking the time to get your lines right and to learn the track.

Agreed.
And making qualy mandatory before being able to enter, and setting them a time target to reach relative to their DR rank, would only enhance that.


To put it simply, I would like to see people required to set a qualy time before racing.
At least that means they have to do some practice before entering a race. Sounds good.
I would like to see them gridded in a position relative to their ability. Sounds fair.
And I would like to see their qualy time relate to their race car. Sounds fair.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue that's not a reasonable idea.

 

[Kwame]

Fair enough. I'll just add a touch more then.

I can't see the relationship.
Asking someone to drive the same car in the race as the one they set their qualifying time in is somehow handicapping people?
Nope.
It's simply putting people on the grid in the correct position relative to the time they are capable of ... for that car.

I think you are over-complicating things.
Yes, your fastest qualy time is your fastest qualy time.
And the Leaderboards reflect that time.
Just as it is now.

Want to race in a different cars? Yes, you set a new qualy time for that car.
If it's faster the Leaderboard changes, if not then it doesn't.
As for gridding, the game has the ability to know your best lap on a track in different cars.
It's exactly what Time Trial does now.

That's a fair call.
But some events it can make a significant difference.
Race C at Le Mans recently would be a good example.
People used 919's or R18's to qualy because they were the fastest, then raced in cars like the 908 because it could no-stop the race.

Ahh, I see.
No, I'm not saying it needs to be done before every single race.
I'm just asking that people to set a qualy time before they can race, and a qualy lap somewhat representative of their ability.
The vast majority of people already do that now anyway.
But as it currently stands, people can race all week and never set a qualy time.

Agreed.
And making qualy mandatory before being able to enter, and setting them a time target to reach relative to their DR rank, would only enhance that.


To put it simply, I would like to see people required to set a qualy time before racing.
At least that means they have to do some practice before entering a race. Sounds good.
I would like to see them gridded in a position relative to their ability. Sounds fair.
And I would like to see their qualy time relate to their race car. Sounds fair.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue that's not a reasonable idea.

That sounds fairly reasonable. This is how I would design it. However, I think non-qualifiers can start in the back. I can't tell you how many days I get a quick race in in the morning before work. If I had to set a time for that, I would not do it.
I say if you change cars, re-qualify or start at the back.