That's exactly how it happens to me in DR B. Many drivers have very fast qualifying times but driving lousy races. That's why I was involved in the discussion when it came to golden laps. These drivers can drive a fast lap anyway. But in the race, they drive as if they were alone. Even if someone is ahead of them and the tires are worn out they brake in the same places as in the qualification. When overtaking, the lines are not varied. It is simply stabbed inside. I could cite such examples here dozens of times but you certainly understand what I mean. The game requires cautious driving in the two videos, but then plays quite differently. Dirty tricks and reckless driving are barely registered or punished. Even in the driving tests this is hardly taught. Basically, there should be a kind of driving school for the clean and prudent drive. Only when you have successfully completed everything there should be allowed online. Online, the rules should then be monitored also. It does not have to be punished at all. Maybe hints about minor mistakes (for example, if you do not give enough space to other drivers) are enough at the end of the race or from a virtual spotter in der race. GT Sport is played by many players who have little knowledge of racing and consequently have little understanding. Therefore, a little more coaching from the game might not be bad.
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 449,196 views
That's exactly how it happens to me in DR B. Many drivers have very fast qualifying times but driving lousy races. That's why I was involved in the discussion when it came to golden laps. These drivers can drive a fast lap anyway. But in the race, they drive as if they were alone. Even if someone is ahead of them and the tires are worn out they brake in the same places as in the qualification. When overtaking, the lines are not varied. It is simply stabbed inside. I could cite such examples here dozens of times but you certainly understand what I mean. The game requires cautious driving in the two videos, but then plays quite differently. Dirty tricks and reckless driving are barely registered or punished. Even in the driving tests this is hardly taught. Basically, there should be a kind of driving school for the clean and prudent drive. Only when you have successfully completed everything there should be allowed online. Online, the rules should then be monitored also. It does not have to be punished at all. Maybe hints about minor mistakes (for example, if you do not give enough space to other drivers) are enough at the end of the race or from a virtual spotter in der race. GT Sport is played by many players who have little knowledge of racing and consequently have little understanding. Therefore, a little more coaching from the game might not be bad.
VolkswagenX
(Banned)
- 1,532
- Netherlands
I think the small SR down without penalty are already good hints of minor mistakes. I would not really change much how the penalties are given, but would like to see a change in how they are served. Either do the FIA race penalties or ad the penalty time to the end of the race with no chance of serving during the race. I believe this encourages people to race clean because a penalty can now lose you a position which leads to clean drivers going up in DR and dirty drivers down. Coaching would be nice, but there needs to be consequences to bad behavior.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Except the penalty system keeps giving the wrong car SR Down
Taking penalties to the finish would be preferred. Serving penalties in the race only creates more incidents.
Sadly, until the penalty system is fixed, dirty drivers would just find the best spots to hit you, go off course or tap a wall to give YOU the panalty. If you can't serve it you lose positions and thus DR.
I really would love the FIA penalty system though. Would definitely slow down the fast rammers.
VolkswagenX
(Banned)
- 1,532
- Netherlands
Except the penalty system keeps giving the wrong car SR Down
I don't think GTS will ever get that right. My only option would be to SR down both parties (If they can't get it right).
Same situation, penalize both if the can't get it right. Yeah you lose SR and DR for being clean but at least the other guy is not gaining and they would have to start changing their behavior. FIA penalty system would be the best solution but I don't see PD bringing it to the daily races
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I would be OK with that, as the way it is now it's stacked against the victim. It started out with SR Down for both parties, then it changed to penalties for both parties, and now we have SR Down for the one getting hit...
What I would really like to see is SR Down for going outside track limits. The shortcut / wide penalties are currently so lenient on Nordschleife that I constantly see people driving on the grass and unsafely merging back on the track without a penalty or anything. The cars seem more stable on the grass as well as I hardly see anyone spinning out, just taking a nice detour and throwing the car back on the road in front of you. SR.S should expect you to stay on the damn road.
I just got a penalty again. Someone attempting a dumb pass in traffic, hit me, then the wall, 4 sec for me. Where are you going to go with your pass when there are cars right in front on a narrow twisty track. Wait until a gap opens up instead of creating an accident.
Ugh this penalty system. Car goes over the grass at the final section, huge shortcut, rams me into the wall coming back on the road, I get SR Down, he gets nothing and takes the position. PD when are you going to fix it. A car coming from off track does not have the right of way, it's so simple it hurts.
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Your experiences seem familiar to me. We've probably all experienced this several times already. If there is a wrong punishment in the dense turmoil right after the start I understand that. In these situations, it is really not easy to identify the culprit. But there are so many unique situations where wrong penalties are imposed as well. These errors could be fixed long ago if the developers would finally fix them. It really would not be difficult to determine if someone slows much too late or has driven massively through the grass direct bevore a collision. With this information, the penalty system could then assess the collision quite differently. But both the data collection and the penalty system seem very primitive and sketchy. The system in iRaching is worlds better. Everything is registered and evaluated. Already for a small leave of the route there are warnings. But something like that will not happen with GT. Both games are aimed at different target groups. I can already vividly imagine how casual players would rebellion if the system from iRacing would be integrated into GT. GT Sport has tried to separate the players with the ratings and to make it fun for everyone. But it does not work. Players of different levels and objectives mix too much. In addition, it has been shown that different classifications do not work depending on the rank of the players. If you allow lower-ranked players more, they'll learn the wrong way to drive. And when it comes to contacts with higher-ranking players, the chaos rules. Basically, casual or arcade players should play something like Burnout, NFS or Destruction Derby, and simulation players play their realistic simulation. Such games are also in sufficient number available. GT Sport is somewhere in between and therefore can not do it all right. Yes, a good penalty system would improve the situation for us here in the forum. But I do not think John Doe wants that. The question is who is here in the wrong game? On the one hand, Gt Sport was announced as a "real driving simulator" but on the other hand GT has always been played by many players like an arcade game. This was not noticed in earlier parts because it used to be mostly offline. The computer opponents in the old parts did not bother ramming and wallriding. Now we have different target groups with different objectives that all want something different from the game. All this makes it difficult for the developers and generates the whole discussion.
- 16
- Thailand
- Flava_Flo80
The penalty system sucks ****. Someone bumps into you from behind and you get a penalty? The daily races are so annoying. Crashing into and pushing other players seems normal. Is it so hard to create a penalty system that actually works? And why is mechanical damage and side contact penalty always off in daily races? To make it easier to push your opponents off the track?
- 6,293
- Canada
Yes
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Arcade players can still play, the game just needs to keep them out of the clean races. The problem is indeed that lower SR classes are allowed more contact and get punished differently. That's fine, as long as SR classes do not get mixed and you have to show you can drive to the requirements of the next tier to be allowed in there. Hence I say, require a clean race bonus to level up to SR.A. Start deducting SR for leaving the track in SR.A. Require consecutive clean races to advance to SR.S and don't allow penalty scrubbing in SR.S. It is currently way to easy to get into SR.S and stay there.
There is no damage since that always turns out worse for the victim. Actually there is damage in the FIA races, where I promptly got pushed into a barrier and race over, limp to the pit. Side contact penalties have been turned off since all those flashing penalty signs look bad in FIA races... (The game can't get it right anyway)
What I don't understand is why can't PD fix the simple cases. If a car is at a 45 degree angle to the road with complete loss of traction and makes contact with another car that is in control yet has no where to go, why give that car a 4 sec penalty for staying on the road while the out of control car spins off. Same for cars coming from outside track limits, getting bumped from behind at full speed, getting bumped side by side at the edge of the road while the other car has all the room. Fix the easy situations at least.
Let me add one more easy case. When the car in front of you rear ends the car in front of them, either ghost them or stop with the dumb pinball physics slowing them down so much you have no chance to avoid them. I just got another 3 sec penalty from the pinball physics.
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- 22
- United States
- nojgib
This is a specific example of the penalty system not working. This driver should never be A S rated. This is simply qualifying fast and blocking/ wrecking to finish first. 1 golden lap as I believe I've seen @Sven Jurgens say. Some individuals know how to work the system to specifically give the victim the SR down. All I can say.
- 4,552
- Australia
- 4,552
- Australia
Such drivers are of course also in the races. Too many even. But against such drivers helps only a good penalty system and that will probably not exist in GT. In contrast, the developers could do something relatively easy against the blockers in the wrong spots. In the FIA races, the qualifications are also limited. They could easily transfer that to the weekly races.
- 4,552
- Australia
- 563
- France
- ElGringoFuerte
I mostly agree with you, except the replication downwards. I'm not sure if you mean that it should be easier at lower DR, which is the part I don't agree with if you were trying to say that. SR and DR should be two separate measurements imo with no influence on each other.
SR is the primary match factor so who cares when there are A+/E drivers. Let them play with other SR.E drivers and be king of the **** pileSR deductions and time penalties should not be lower for lower DR. SR.S should be as hard to maintain for DR.D as it is for DR.A+. The more forgiving nature of the SR system at lower DR is what's causing the extra friction at lower DR levels, made worse by DR resets mixing in the bad fast apples with the clean slower crowd.
SR is too easy to gain and to lose as it is now. In SR.E you can gain 50 SR in one clean daily C race, probably more this week as Tsukaba is already worth 24 SR in SR.S.
There are many ways to improve the SR system:
- Average over time, last 10 races for example.
- Deduct SR for reckless driving, going outside track limits, touching walls, spinning out (without involvement of other cars)
- Require a clean race bonus to enter the next SR bracket, 2 consecutive for SR.S.
- Equalize the max SR gains for race A,B and C. For example, A max 5, B max 7, C max 12 and lower the boosts for SR.E to SR.C
- Do not mix different SR classes in races, the rules are too different.
Of course first fix the faulty penalties
that gif sums up pretty much everything , you are on the inside you just need somebody to squeeze you then go off and voila penalty on a silver platter for you / i just got the exact same on the nurb GP and of course i get the 5sec penalty
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Stockholm syndrome.
You get used to it, I don't even bother saving videos of undeserved penalties anymore. It's just the way the game works
In fact, it never takes long to happen again. Just now, car slightly bumps me from behind in T1 Big Willow, goes off as he's still carrying too much speed, 4 sec penalty for me, 2 places lost at the finish, -5 SR. All you can do is laugh at the incompetence of PD when it comes to penalties. Yep, I purposefully bumped him off with my rear bumper while accelerating through the corner.
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That annoys me too. But what do we want to do about it? The developers stubbornly refuse to improve their faulty system. Yesterday I was divebombed again. Very classic with 2 wheels outside the track. I have 5 seconds penalty and a massive deduction SR get. When I complained after the race, the other driver called me a dirty sissy. After all, I got the punishment and not him. The faulty system changes the perception and the game culture. Who drives clean applies to some drivers as a sissy. If you keep thinking, then it's not surprising that more and more dreary drivers are driving. But even that does not seem to bother the developers.
- 272
- Netherlands
- F1FOUAD
Or make the people who get penalys for getting hit Ragequit, Till they dont figure out something they will just leave it like this, its not as bad as it was before so i can live with it for now. During the worldTour I messaged Gran tursimo on twitter asking why they dont make a new Racing etiquette video together with the finalist. That would help cause some people need to change.
- 1,435
- Kansas City/MO/US
- BallPtPenTheif
- BallPtPenTheif
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
The penalties are way too low regardless. It's a minor slap on the wrist even if fully deserved. Penalties either melt away by themselves during the race or can be served almost 3 times as fast as the penalty time at the finish. Looking at my lap times, I often lose 8 seconds or more when getting punted off, the culprit gets 3 or 4 seconds penalty which can be served in 1.2 to 1.5 seconds, if it doesn't melt away during the race first.
The 5 sec penalties seem to happen more often when a car hits you from behind and then goes off. The system is at least consistently upside down
The less you deserve a penalty the higher it gets!When we had the severe 10 sec penalties for the slightest contact my DR was on average 30% higher than before and after. All from dirty drivers not getting away with their bump passes and dives. The penalty time also started increasing at 10 sec if not served directly. The inconvenience of getting 1 sec penalties for getting hit was a bliss compared to what we have now. In the backfield racing is a full contact sport.
- 1,435
- Kansas City/MO/US
- BallPtPenTheif
- BallPtPenTheif
I personally loved the 10 sec penalty rule set since I tend not to hit people anyways. Other drivers drove with a sense of concern going out of their way to steer off of the track just to avoid rear ending anyone. I thought it was amazing but even this message board was flooded with people complaining about not being able to aggressively race and trade paint with each other. I know there were definitely phantom collision penalty issues but I felt it was closer to being in the right direction than where we are now.
- 714
- New York
- GTP-DEADPOOL
I completely gave up on caring about either DR or SR and only race with friends now. Tired of the bumper car BS. Too many drivers running qualifying laps they can’t repeat, and zero race craft turning races into circuses.
What’s also annoying is how SR/DR can’t discern when I’ve habdicapped my car to race with a group of slower friends. I’ll add tons of weight and drop power, then lose SR/DR because of it.
What’s also annoying is how SR/DR can’t discern when I’ve habdicapped my car to race with a group of slower friends. I’ll add tons of weight and drop power, then lose SR/DR because of it.
Yes, the qualifying rounds in the race are a huge problem. For one, it causes a lot of trouble because these drivers do not consider other drivers and the declining tires. Second, it also changes the perception of the race. As I described yesterday, I was called by another driver as a sissy. This driver certainly thinks he is right with his behavior. He rides in the race as well as in the qualification and takes no account of other drivers. Due to the faulty penalty system he is still confirmed in his opinion, since I got the punishment and not he. In my case, he won a position and I was punished. For him, this behavior was a complete success. With this confirmation, he will do it the next time, or maybe even more aggressive. All this together ensures that many drivers are convinced that only with maximum aggressiveness, good results can be achieved. This dilemma can only be solved by a largely error-free penalty system. Then exaggerated aggressiveness would finally be punished. iRaching does that and it works very well. But for GT I have no hope. The game is now available for over a year, but the penalty system has only tiny adjustments. The really big and important improvements have not happened at this time and probably will not happen.
The penalties are way too low regardless. It's a minor slap on the wrist even if fully deserved. Penalties either melt away by themselves during the race or can be served almost 3 times as fast as the penalty time at the finish. Looking at my lap times, I often lose 8 seconds or more when getting punted off, the culprit gets 3 or 4 seconds penalty which can be served in 1.2 to 1.5 seconds, if it doesn't melt away during the race first.
The 5 sec penalties seem to happen more often when a car hits you from behind and then goes off. The system is at least consistently upside down
When we had the severe 10 sec penalties for the slightest contact my DR was on average 30% higher than before and after. All from dirty drivers not getting away with their bump passes and dives. The penalty time also started increasing at 10 sec if not served directly. The inconvenience of getting 1 sec penalties for getting hit was a bliss compared to what we have now. In the backfield racing is a full contact sport.
Absolutely right. If I get rammed, I lose a lot more time than the rammer gets as a punishment. Then there are the unjustified time penalties. Yesterday I lost 4 seconds and a place by one divebombing. Then there was the 5 second penalty. Even if the divebomber got the 5 seconds, it would still be beneficial for him. He has won a place and the 5-second penalty is paid in 1.5 seconds at the end, while I have lost 4 seconds. He would have won 2.5 seconds over me and a place. This shows me that on one side the penalty system has to be better and on the other side the time penalties have to be increased. It can not be that even with a properly imposed penalty the offender still has an advantage. That motivates all 'weak spirits' to unfair and aggressive behaviors. I am surprised that the developers apparently did not notice this contradiction until today.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Oh, they know about it. That's why we had the 10 sec penalty for slight contact last year, which also required a lot more slow down to actually serve the penalty. However that resulted in FIA races where people were serving penalties in corners and on the racing line in front of others (penalty serving cars did not ghost yet). Besides that looking ridiculous in 'official' races many people complained they couldn't race bumper to bumper, door to door anymore.
PD caved in, made it easier to serve penalties (less slowdown needed, faster countdown), the time before penalties increase on their own was raised to 1 minute, cars that serve penalties got ghosted, they fixed the discrepancy between clients (one could show a penalty while the other has none) exactly showing how much time a car with penalty has, PD lowered the penalty times over all, loosened track limits, lowered shortcut penalties and completely changed penalty assessment to the simple "if contact, one car goes off road, other gets penalty" rule we have now.
So yes, there have been many big changes, all designed to reduce the effect of faulty penalties while not doing anything about enforcing better race etiquette. The latest experiment was the penalty zones in FIA races which still hasn't come to daily races. That will put an end to losing penalties during the race, no more flickering cars, ghosting unghosting all the time, or people serving little bits of penalties in front of you to unghost at the last moment to block.
The problem is, dirty drivers will find a way to cheat any system. When we had the strict penalties the most popular was a dive bomb making sure to hit the car being bombed at the front so the penalty system saw it as the other car hitting the dive bomber at the back. Result dive bomb success, 10 sec penalty for the other car, plus a free short cut for the dive bomber. It was very effective in T1 Monza. And with all the changes that still works, dive bomb tap the other car on the way through, skip the second part of the chicane, free shortcut, 5 sec for the other car
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- 563
- France
- ElGringoFuerte
hit in the back while turning at T1 nurb , i manage to take the turn fine the other guy spins around and i STILL get the max 5 sec penalty (no i didnt braked check ) , how a game so awesome can be plagued by such an awful penalty system ? its really a love/hate relationship
