PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[djidane57]

The problem is, dirty drivers will find a way to cheat any system. When we had the strict penalties the most popular was a dive bomb making sure to hit the car being bombed at the front so the penalty system saw it as the other car hitting the dive bomber at the back. Result dive bomb success, 10 sec penalty for the other car, plus a free short cut for the dive bomber. It was very effective in T1 Monza. And with all the changes that still works, dive bomb tap the other car on the way through, skip the second part of the chicane, free shortcut, 5 sec for the other car

or the other way around , there's somebody overtaking you at the chicane on the inside? just turn into him and go off , same result

 

[Dorofint]

The problem is, dirty drivers will find a way to cheat any system. When we had the strict penalties the most popular was a dive bomb making sure to hit the car being bombed at the front so the penalty system saw it as the other car hitting the dive bomber at the back. Result dive bomb success, 10 sec penalty for the other car, plus a free short cut for the dive bomber. It was very effective in T1 Monza. And with all the changes that still works, dive bomb tap the other car on the way through, skip the second part of the chicane, free shortcut, 5 sec for the other car

Well summarized. That is exactly how it was done and that is exactly how it is done now. In DR B SR S this has spread like the plague. Yes, not all riders are like that but there are 2 to 3 riders doing the same in every race. Such an obvious and widely used abuse option must be corrected as soon as possible. The trick can be found anywhere on the internet and it's so easy that anyone can copy it. That's something the developers have to do something about. If it is something difficult or largely unknown then you can discuss it because it is rarely used. But with something so obvious and useful, something has to happen.

 

[NotThirdReich]

i dont know how your guys can keep your nerves when u are getting undeserved penalties , i'm so close to insta delete the game sometimes

Keeping your cool in races is how you win. Even though yesterday I get knocked off track by an R8 LMS and Viper GT3, into sand-traps mind you, I still recovered some positions. If I had gotten angry, I would have been making mistakes everywhere.

I get it's frustrating to lose SR and get penalties and have your race ruined, but I feel you shouldn't aim for useless goals. Just try to recover your race.

 

[Deadpool]

What PD should do is make an easy system for reporting drivers in Daily Races.

Let’s say there’s a dirty driver with repeated offenses in a race. You click report at the end of the race. The replay is saved and someone at PD reviews and then drops that users SR severely to essentially limit them to the bumper car rooms. This would clean up the races dramatically IMO.

 

[sundaydriving]

The replay is saved and someone at PD reviews and then drops that users SR severely to essentially limit them to the bumper car rooms.

So a sport mode post race stewarding system. Its probably only economical to cover some of the top FIA races this way.

 

[Dorofint]

So a sport mode post race stewarding system. Its probably only economical to cover some of the top FIA races this way.

From the economic point of view you are right. The problem is that something like that is just not necessary at the top FIA races. The top riders usually have sponsors and their own youtube channels. That's why they have to drive clean. Any obvious questionable behavior would scare off sponsors and youtube fans. It's really dirty in the lower divisions or in the weekly races. The developers should find a solution for this. But as you have already noticed, this can not be done economically manually.

 

[Deadpool]

It could be done. If they did a system where it takes multiple offenses to raise a red flag where a moderator steps in. This would have an initial investment of time that would filter out the worst.

Another way would be through free moderation. Just look at car forums, a lot of mods are not paid for it. Why not look to GTPlanet for mods to review red flags that get triggered. Let the community fix the problem.

 

[ShiftingGears]

It's very easy at some tracks to exploit the penalty system.

 

[MPincombe]

Weirdly, the cleanest I've ever seen this game was when heavy damage was a thing a couple of seasons back.

I've had so many penalties where someone has hit me from behind, maybe if penalties were lessened and heavy damage was used more things would be better...

 

[Dorofint]

Weirdly, the cleanest I've ever seen this game was when heavy damage was a thing a couple of seasons back.

I've had so many penalties where someone has hit me from behind, maybe if penalties were lessened and heavy damage was used more things would be better...

I also did the experience. The current penalty system is being abused. It is divebombed and the punishment gets even the victim. From this, these drivers learn even more wrong behavior. That encourages them to drive even more aggressively. Of course it is annoying when you got rammed with heavy damage and thus your race is destroyed. But the heavy damage applies at least for the rammer too. He also destroyed his own race with the action. Maybe he'll learn something from that. As currently is rammed and divebombed my races are destroyed after such a thing anyway. So additional heavy damage would make nothing worse to me. But heavy damage would finally hit the aggressor. I think that would be really good. These drivers must finally learn that they have no advantages due to such aggressive behavior. Heavy damage, in my opinion, is a good way to do this. After a few destroyed races and corresponding gradings, hopefully they will begin to question their own actions and do better in the future.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

But the heavy damage applies at least for the rammer too. He also destroyed his own race with the action. Maybe he'll learn something from that. As currently is rammed and divebombed my races are destroyed after such a thing anyway.

It's not hard to PIT someone without creating any damage to your own car. Relying on the damage system would just force people to dive bomb and PIT you off of the track without incurring any damage to their own vehicle.

You can currently PIT people from the inside of a turn now without any time penalty but people would rather nudge and pass than hover near another cars rear flank to PIT them, so you don't see it intentionally happening too often.

 

[Stumps_GTI]

My temper does me no favours....I have only done a handful of online races, the daily grinds, usually Gr 3 or Gr 4.
I just baled on a race, pulled the pin completely because some turd knocked me right off track at Mt Fuji.
Very first corner, straight off the start, he rail roaded straight into my door, I doubt he even bothered to brake the hit was so extreme. 🤬
I GET the 5 SECOND penalty for running off track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤬
I just pulled up and hit EXIT. Thanks a lot dick breath. 👍

 

[fastone371]

My temper does me no favours....I have only done a handful of online races, the daily grinds, usually Gr 3 or Gr 4.
I just baled on a race, pulled the pin completely because some turd knocked me right off track at Mt Fuji.
Very first corner, straight off the start, he rail roaded straight into my door, I doubt he even bothered to brake the hit was so extreme. 🤬
I GET the 5 SECOND penalty for running off track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤬
I just pulled up and hit EXIT. Thanks a lot dick breath. 👍

They need seperate lobbies for people that want to sim race and those that want to arcade race. To me the fun isn't always winning but rather having good competitive races. If I am only slightly faster than the car in front I will follow him in the hope that he makes a mistake and I get by, when you hang a few 1/10ths behind often they do. I dont want to risk spinning my opponent or myself by taking a risky move, besides you are both faster if you are not fighting side by side then you can gap the cars behind and battle amongst yourselves at the end. I had a guy yesterday who started behind me in 2nd, he managed to get beside me at the start of the 2nd lap of 7, he hit me enough that he finally managed to spin me, I finished 8th because he didnt have the patience to pass when the opportunity presented itself. He went from an SR/S to an SR/B in a single pass, nice job, I hope that one win was important to him!!!

 

[Dorofint]

They need seperate lobbies for people that want to sim race and those that want to arcade race. To me the fun isn't always winning but rather having good competitive races. If I am only slightly faster than the car in front I will follow him in the hope that he makes a mistake and I get by, when you hang a few 1/10ths behind often they do. I dont want to risk spinning my opponent or myself by taking a risky move, besides you are both faster if you are not fighting side by side then you can gap the cars behind and battle amongst yourselves at the end. I had a guy yesterday who started behind me in 2nd, he managed to get beside me at the start of the 2nd lap of 7, he hit me enough that he finally managed to spin me, I finished 8th because he didnt have the patience to pass when the opportunity presented itself. He went from an SR/S to an SR/B in a single pass, nice job, I hope that one win was important to him!!!

Separate lobbies would not be necessary if people would just pick the right game. For arcade players, there are great games like Onrush or Burnout Paradise remastered. There is lots of action and ramming is part of it. GT Sport is just the wrong game for them. But somehow nobody buys more Arcade Racer. Onrush is e.g. a total flop though it has become good. I think everyone wants to feel like Lewis Hamilton somehow and that's why he buys a simulation even if it does not fit his own playing style. That's why in GT Sport we have so many players with lousy racecraft.

My temper does me no favours....I have only done a handful of online races, the daily grinds, usually Gr 3 or Gr 4.
I just baled on a race, pulled the pin completely because some turd knocked me right off track at Mt Fuji.
Very first corner, straight off the start, he rail roaded straight into my door, I doubt he even bothered to brake the hit was so extreme. 🤬
I GET the 5 SECOND penalty for running off track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤬
I just pulled up and hit EXIT. Thanks a lot dick breath. 👍

Welcome to my world. Especially in the first round Fuji is the paradise for every rammer. I think I have never experienced a race there in which I was not rammed in T1. In the curve it is also super easy to give the victim a penalty as well. This is one of the places where the penalty system most clearly fails. That's why I do not race anymore on this track although I like it very much.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

S
Welcome to my world. Especially in the first round Fuji is the paradise for every rammer. I think I have never experienced a race there in which I was not rammed in T1. In the curve it is also super easy to give the victim a penalty as well. This is one of the places where the penalty system most clearly fails. That's why I do not race anymore on this track although I like it very much.

I was only bumped at Turn 1, once. At the same time though, I wasn't fighting for the apex there since it's GT Sport and 80% of the population will dive bomb you on a hairpin. On the first lap I always cruise around the outside and there is always a crash just outside of the apex where one driver knocks another driver wide. I always cut to the inside exit and gain 1 position there.

At some point you have to come to terms with how poor most people are at driving and learn to exploit their weaknesses. If someone is dive bombing to an early apex, exploit their slow exit speed for the pass rather than praying they'll respect your apex right. Heading into a turn you can clearly see the car behind you and tell that they're going to cut to the inside.

In this video, imagine that the yellow car is the inside overtaking car...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I was only bumped at Turn 1, once. At the same time though, I wasn't fighting for the apex there since it's GT Sport and 80% of the population will dive bomb you on a hairpin. On the first lap I always cruise around the outside and there is always a crash just outside of the apex where one driver knocks another driver wide. I always cut to the inside exit and gain 1 position there.

At some point you have to come to terms with how poor most people are at driving and learn to exploit their weaknesses. If someone is dive bombing to an early apex, exploit their slow exit speed for the pass rather than praying they'll respect your apex right. Heading into a turn you can clearly see the car behind you and tell that they're going to cut to the inside.

In this video, imagine that the yellow car is the inside overtaking car...

You forgot the part where the yellow car spins out on corner exit, crashes into you giving you a 5 sec penalty

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

You forgot the part where the yellow car spins out on corner exit, crashes into you giving you a 5 sec penalty

Haha, that is the harsh reality isn't it. Whenever I overtake on the inside they always panic and try to cut back in instead of staying at the edge of the track. Thankfully those collisions have worked out in my favor. At this point though, I'm getting more joy from baiting people into failure lines than from trying to win the race.

 

[djidane57]

1st Maggiore race , 1st 5 sec penalty for getting the inside line and the other guy not seeing me going off ....not even a diving bomb , i'm ****ing alongside him on the braking point but he STILL turns into me

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Thread got closed before I could post, I'll leave it here

But back to the game. TBH my SR graph looks about the same, I am a motorsport nut, i try very, very hard not to hit anyone but outside of SRS you will get hit, it's a given, so you either stop racing and circulate to farm SR or your SR will drop once outside of SRS.

I echo the thought that SR should be harder to earn and harder to lose, it's a bit too reactionary.

DR and SR are both very flawed.

1. The penalty system is often wrong
2. It's too easy to gain SR in race C.
3. It's too easy to gain SR in lower ranks. SR.E gets a massive boost shooting you up to SR.B in a single race.
4. DR resets are no deterrent when winning is all that counts, it only makes it easier.
5. Lower SR also often gets rewarded with easier races.
6. Penalties have little impact and are far too easy to get rid of.

It all leads to rewarding aggressive driving. The only incentive to drive clean is a meaningless 50% clean race bonus.

DR and SR should be track / race combo related. Take a look at my DR graph since the weeklies started with Sainte-Croix

I mainly race without qualifying, and I race a lot while concentrating on one race/car combo per week. That gives the system plenty time to adjust my DR for each car/track combo. (A daily B naturally means lower DR when racing without qualifying due to less time to gain positions)

Most dips are not DR resets, the only DR resets up there are in the Bluemoon Bay week, draft bumping (or rather getting draft bumped) puts you down in SR.C in no time. (Especially since it was a daily B only worth 5 SR)

So what's my true DR ???


DR/SR per track would help with better matchmaking.
Averaging SR over time would help with better matchmaking, keeping the contact happy out of SR.S.
No DR resets would help with better matchmaking, keep the aggressive fast drivers together instead of mixing them among the slower drivers. (Where easy poles guarantee easy SR gains)
Deducting SR for reckless driving (scraping walls, spinning out, going outside track limits) would help with better matchmaking.
Serving penalties in the pit or added at the end will make races more safe.
Requiring (consecutive) clean race bonus to level up to the next SR tier will make higher SR mean something.

Fixing the penalty system would help as well of course. However it's been 15 months now, I think that ship has sailed.

 

[nuu1212]

@Sven: Good to see a better/more consistent/more careful driver also struggles a lot.
Really frustrating experience, overall. Wish they could sort it out better somehow...
I try to think of SR+- as random events which you cannot influence,
but this only works up to the point where you really get screwed...

As strange as it seems, a more aggressive driving style often works better in a tight group,
i.e. rather risking to bump than get bumped a lot from behind.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@nuu1212 It's better to stay behind a tight group and wait for them to get separated than putting yourself in the middle. You can influence SR+- events and racing contact free takes a lot of on track experience, perfect situational awareness and the ability to put your car exactly where you want it to be. The whole problem with the penalty system is that it is indeed often better to bump than get bumped. That's the reason why there's so much road rage in races. Unfair penalties and SR loss from people bumping only fuel the flames.

Concentrate on driving contact free first, before trying to over take. 80% of my position gains are from simply being patient and waiting for the cars ahead to mess up leaving a clear opening. Battling for position slows both cars down, allowing a car from behind to start bumping both of you, or a car like me to fly by while the other two are in each other's way.

 

[nuu1212]

@nuu1212 It's better to stay behind a tight group and wait for them to get separated than putting yourself in the middle. You can influence SR+- events and racing contact free takes a lot of on track experience, perfect situational awareness and the ability to put your car exactly where you want it to be. The whole problem with the penalty system is that it is indeed often better to bump than get bumped. That's the reason why there's so much road rage in races. Unfair penalties and SR loss from people bumping only fuel the flames.

This is what I was trying to call into question. Seems obvious, but you depend on the intelligence of those behind you.
E.g. starting in 6th and slowing down because of the group ahead results mostly in 7th-9th catching up and clinching you from all sides, while going for it (e.g. lunging into the group ahead) there is a good possibility that you come out 4th and have some clean air. So you trade one punt for getting a lot of bumps. So much for my Game Theory approach...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

This is what I was trying to call into question. Seems obvious, but you depend on the intelligence of those behind you.
E.g. starting in 6th and slowing down because of the group ahead results mostly in 7th-9th catching up and clinching you from all sides, while going for it (e.g. lunging into the group ahead) there is a good possibility that you come out 4th and have some clean air. So you trade one punt for getting a lot of bumps. So much for my Game Theory approach...

And that's why I don't bother to qualify. I don't put a lot of effort into qualifying when I do, so I end up starting in the middle and get rammed from behind going into T1. I only qualify on the Nordschleife as that strategy doesn't work there since half the field can't complete a single lap to qualify, which means I still start in the middle with a pack of people unfamiliar with the track behind me. (The tallest peaks in that graph up there are the weeks Nordschleife was in the weeklies)

 

[nuu1212]

Interesting approach if you cannot qualify 1st-3rd this might not be such a bad idea...

I am down to SR 33 again. 30 is the critical reset number, right!?
Have to put in one race "farming" for SR+. Never done that before.
Strange thing is, I can virtually never get SR+ in sector 3 of Nurb GP, sector 2 I cut sometimes and still get SR+, sector 3 is totally clean. Maybe there is no SR+ for this sector? Will try this again in a minute, staying center track while farming.

Booted from race as I type , what a fun game we have gotten ourselves into....

Made it! Just entered Race B starting from the back vs total E/B noobs. Coasting in 4th. Really hard to resist overtaking. One contact vs total spas taking all 20m of track-width at once.
SR plus 9 wow! DR down 1000, who cares?

 

[gapper59]

Thread got closed before I could post, I'll leave it here



DR and SR are both very flawed.

1. The penalty system is often wrong
2. It's too easy to gain SR in race C.
3. It's too easy to gain SR in lower ranks. SR.E gets a massive boost shooting you up to SR.B in a single race.
4. DR resets are no deterrent when winning is all that counts, it only makes it easier.
5. Lower SR also often gets rewarded with easier races.
6. Penalties have little impact and are far too easy to get rid of.

It all leads to rewarding aggressive driving. The only incentive to drive clean is a meaningless 50% clean race bonus.

DR and SR should be track / race combo related. Take a look at my DR graph since the weeklies started with Sainte-Croix

I mainly race without qualifying, and I race a lot while concentrating on one race/car combo per week. That gives the system plenty time to adjust my DR for each car/track combo. (A daily B naturally means lower DR when racing without qualifying due to less time to gain positions)

Most dips are not DR resets, the only DR resets up there are in the Bluemoon Bay week, draft bumping (or rather getting draft bumped) puts you down in SR.C in no time. (Especially since it was a daily B only worth 5 SR)

So what's my true DR ???


DR/SR per track would help with better matchmaking.
Averaging SR over time would help with better matchmaking, keeping the contact happy out of SR.S.
No DR resets would help with better matchmaking, keep the aggressive fast drivers together instead of mixing them among the slower drivers. (Where easy poles guarantee easy SR gains)
Deducting SR for reckless driving (scraping walls, spinning out, going outside track limits) would help with better matchmaking.
Serving penalties in the pit or added at the end will make races more safe.
Requiring (consecutive) clean race bonus to level up to the next SR tier will make higher SR mean something.

Fixing the penalty system would help as well of course. However it's been 15 months now, I think that ship has sailed.

Bump drafting got me at Bluemoon Bay too. Wtf ???
Just wondering if you still lose SR when being bumped from behind?

I haven't tried a daily race since December do to shoulder surgery, but even then it still seemed to be happening. I was really hoping they fixed that.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Bump drafting got me at Bluemoon Bay too. Wtf ???
Just wondering if you still lose SR when being bumped from behind?

I haven't tried a daily race since December do to shoulder surgery, but even then it still seemed to be happening. I was really hoping they fixed that.

Yes, it still happens when you get bumped on a straight. PD 'fixed' it a bit so that the trailing car now gets SR Down when the bump occurs in a corner. Of course the consistency of what PD considers 'corner' is about as reliable as the track limits!

So brake check mid corner (like how the AI teaches you to do) and bump people on the straight

 

[Deadpool]

Agreed.

This week I’ve been starting on pole or 2nd for the Nurburgring GP race, had a few guys I could tell would be aggressive into turn 1 so I let them have it. Then I just stuck myself right behind their bumper for a few laps till they make a mistake from the pressure.

This allowed us to build a gap from the field first, then I make a move when the opportunity presents itself. I’ll usually only force it if it’s the final lap and even then I leave them plenty of room.

One thing I didn’t expect was a few cars being able to do the whole race without pitting lol. Totally caught me off guard as one race I had a 15sec gap to 2nd and figured I’d just control the pace for an easy win. I pcome out of the pits and realize a backmarker is doing a no stop strategy lol. Next race I went all out knowing that a few guys would be doing that. Love the events with pit strategy, really changes the dynamic.

 

[praiano63]

The guy in the evo don't have anything to see with this , i was giving space for him inside the corner , the other in the Lexus just brake to late and strike both.
Anyway , this is just a racing accident , the problem is that i've taken 5 seconds penalty. I still don't understand this system , was it because the bump was lateral ?? They have to fix this urgently.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The guy in the evo don't have anything to see with this , i was giving space for him inside the corner , the other in the Lexus just brake to late and strike both.
Anyway , this is just a racing accident , the problem is that i've taken 5 seconds penalty. I still don't understand this system , was it because the bump was lateral ?? They have to fix this urgently.

The way the penalty system sees it:: The white car goes off track, therefore the fault lies with one of the cars that stays on the road. Red car spins and also goes off road. Green car gets the blame. Same as just happened to me.

The Porsche on my left tags me, then punts the blue car. I get a 3 sec penalty.

 

[Deadpool]

The guy in the evo don't have anything to see with this , i was giving space for him inside the corner , the other in the Lexus just brake to late and strike both.
Anyway , this is just a racing accident , the problem is that i've taken 5 seconds penalty. I still don't understand this system , was it because the bump was lateral ?? They have to fix this urgently

The EVO and Lexus were both idiots for attempting this, the Lexus even more. Wayyyyyy too late and they were not even at your bumper until after you had turned in on the racing line. Too many idiots like this attempting bonehead passes. The Lexus was hilariously bad. How he expected that to actually work lol???