PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Sven Jurgens]

LOL I live in Brazil - The internet is shocking - although I'm English, and fortunately I'm able to race in the EMEA region as the time zones are good for me.

I have never found lag to be too much of a problem, I see it occasionally but try to avoid the cars. I could be wrong, but maybe lag can be created by bad driving. If someone is always on the controls, constantly trying to keep the car in control... all those little inputs.....

Having said that, I race with my 10yo kid on line... he drives this way and never lags

Lag is the problem of the person at the receiving end. Laggy cars enjoy the benefit of their lag.

Laggy cars get projected forward in braking zone (braking input arrives late), phantom bumping cars ahead.
Laggy cars stall at the apex making it hard to get a better corner exit (throttle input arrives late)
Laggy cars can't hold a steady line and phantom bump cars on their outside.

For laggy cars, bumping, dives and barge passing usually goes unnoticed by the penalty system.

 

[NevilleNobody]

(((actually quite scared Nev had an alt account in any of my numerous rampage races at low sr before it was reset)))

I do often wonder who i am really up against but no, i just do one account, i don't have time for 1 let alone 2. like wives i guess.

 

[Try_Rebooting]

Lag is the problem of the person at the receiving end. Laggy cars enjoy the benefit of their lag.

Laggy cars get projected forward in braking zone (braking input arrives late), phantom bumping cars ahead.
Laggy cars stall at the apex making it hard to get a better corner exit (throttle input arrives late)
Laggy cars can't hold a steady line and phantom bump cars on their outside.

For laggy cars, bumping, dives and barge passing usually goes unnoticed by the penalty system.

Ah yea, I realised this, I just wondered what can cause lag the lag internet wise. I mean, my kid never lags when he plays and he plays at his mums house, not mine, (so were not on the same console)

 

[Groundfish]

I do often wonder who i am really up against but no, i just do one account, i don't have time for 1 let alone 2. like wives i guess.

Pretty sure anyone here would know it’s me on alt. The all caps name vs my name here...Self explanatory.
I’ve had people recognize the movie quote too and laugh.

It’s @sturk0167 s fault (really)

 

[sundaydriving]

Ah yea, I realised this, I just wondered what can cause lag the lag internet wise. I mean, my kid never lags when he plays and he plays at his mums house, not mine, (so were not on the same console)

Networks... They can only go so fast, speed of light is the limiting factor, but you will also lose time - increase lag - each time you hit a router or similar device while it decides where to send your data to next. They can also only carry so much at one time, hit the limit at any point in the chain between you and the server and your data in either direction might get queued a bit but likely simply dropped - by design. Any coder worth their $$$ should understand this and code accordingly. If using wireless, contention and interference become much bigger lag factors than when wired.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ah yea, I realised this, I just wondered what can cause lag the lag internet wise. I mean, my kid never lags when he plays and he plays at his mums house, not mine, (so were not on the same console)

It depends on the isp as well. A lot of isps prioritize download speed, hence a laggy car usually doesn't suffer as much from their internet as everyone else. They receive the data in time yet their own data gets send out much slower.

A lot of South Americans also seem to use vpns which doesn't help. When you check their internet connection you often get some bs 13 ms ping back, which is just the connection between the gts server and the vpn server. In game they have a yellow to red connection and wobble all over the place.

The route from South America to North America is pretty shoddy as well internet wise. I would be better off playing on the European server from Canada than play with South Americans. Even as the crow flies, Europe is a lot closer to me than Brazil and further down.

How far away is your kids house. Brazil is over 7,000 km away from me, add another 2,000 to get their the way the internet pipes go.

 

[Granadier]

It’s @sturk0167 s fault (really)

This is the way.

 

[Try_Rebooting]

I see a lot of yellow bars, but I've never noticed lag from other drivers until they turn red. I know what you mean about the wobble tho. I see this quite a lot - event from green bar drivers. I wondered if bad driving, over correcting causes this twitching.

I never use a VPN, for this stuff.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I see a lot of yellow bars, but I've never noticed lag from other drivers until they turn red. I know what you mean about the wobble tho. I see this quite a lot - event from green bar drivers. I wondered if bad driving, over correcting causes this twitching.

I never use a VPN, for this stuff.

There is the easily visible lag and the stuff the game smooths out, but that still leaves the yellow connection cars braking and accelerating slightly late. When you race in a tight pack it becomes a big nuisance. You can't get on the gas when you want when behind a yellow connection while the yellow connection behind you comes too close in the braking zone. 150 ms delay is a 5 meter later braking point on the receiving console at only 120 kph. With people preferring to drive right on your bump contact is inevitable. To the person driving the yellow connection it simply looks like the car ahead started braking later or too late, they don't see the contact since the effect of their car's push arrives back before they make contact on their screen. Yet the car ahead still gets SR Down!

The wobbling effect of laggy cars starts when the data stream isn't consistent. Next to lag you also have jitter. The more jitter, the more wobbly the car gets. A car with 0.5 seconds delay can still appear to drive smooth while a car with only 50ms delay can be wobbling from side to side if that avg 50ms is actually 25ms to 75ms with dropped or out of order packets in between.

 

[Try_Rebooting]

There is the easily visible lag and the stuff the game smooths out, but that still leaves the yellow connection cars braking and accelerating slightly late. When you race in a tight pack it becomes a big nuisance. You can't get on the gas when you want when behind a yellow connection while the yellow connection behind you comes too close in the braking zone. 150 ms delay is a 5 meter later braking point on the receiving console at only 120 kph. With people preferring to drive right on your bump contact is inevitable. To the person driving the yellow connection it simply looks like the car ahead started braking later or too late, they don't see the contact since the effect of their car's push arrives back before they make contact on their screen. Yet the car ahead still gets SR Down!

The wobbling effect of laggy cars starts when the data stream isn't consistent. Next to lag you also have jitter. The more jitter, the more wobbly the car gets. A car with 0.5 seconds delay can still appear to drive smooth while a car with only 50ms delay can be wobbling from side to side if that avg 50ms is actually 25ms to 75ms with dropped or out of order packets in between.

Hmm interesting. In that case I should cut the guys a break if they bump me. Especially if it don’t transfer momentum to my car none.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Hmm interesting. In that case I should cut the guys a break if they bump me. Especially if it don’t transfer momentum to my car none.

Momentum is transferred and, however tiny, can have big consequences. In a race I just did now I suddenly went wide for no reason in a corner. I check the replay and yep, the car behind me slightly bumps me while I'm braking. Instead of the speed continuing to go down I see it jump back up 5kph before going down again. Tiny bump, I still end up with 2 wheels in the sand and get passed.

The race before had this happen

A tiny lag wobble killed me. No penalties were issued with me ending up in the wall while the car behind me (who I had just passed) waited for me to recover. Of course speed lost there is pretty much race over. If you look closely at the radar you can see his car wobble right and left just before my car gets pit manoevered.

Lag plus close racing on the edge doesn't work.

 

[Dorofint]

Not really. As I have stated many times, the early iteration of the system where all contact resulted in a penalty was pretty much what people are asking for. If all contact risks a penalty, all contact will be avoided.

Remember, we did not have the combination of time for contact AND mandatory penalty stops. I think those two systems would work BRILLIANTLY to reduce the bad driving.

I agree that light contact should not count, because light contact is barely noticeable and doesn't move the cars. But, if the contact is strong enough to move a car, a time penalty of some sort SHOULD be handed down.

I JUST participated in a Race B at Interlagos (for those reading beyond this week) where the first three finishers all had red "S". The pole sitter, and I who started 3rd, had blue "S". We were both completely mugged in the race. I followed the pole sitter, and the eventual winner as they fought for the lead and I watched the eventual winner drive in a manner that anyone would consider irresponsible and dirty. He eventually forced the pole sitter off track, although there was not enough contact for a time penalty (go figure).

Meanwhile, I was being mugged by two people behind me. I was behind held up by not shoving my car into the battle ahead (which would mean contact). The people behind me didn't care. The guy who finished second did a dive bomb on the guy behind me and then slammed into the side of my car. He was so far back that his braking point would have easily sent him off track if not for my car. Instead, I get race losing contact, but I didn't go off track, so no penalty and he hit the side of my car, so again, no penalty.

The system currently REWARDS bad and dirty driving. I'm over here trying to be aggressive but not slam into people and I am losing positions as a result. At the same time, people who take the corner at all costs, are rewarded more often than not. Red S? No big deal, I'll just drive clean next race.

Meanwhile, on Monday, I lost my S status because some guy dive bombed me at Nurb, I saw this and avoided, he went off track, hit the wall, bounced BACK onto the track into my path. I T-bone him, and I get a massive penalty and an A rating. Why was he not a ghost the MOMENT he lost control? We KNOW the game can do this because it's been an option since GT5. Why was he not a ghost when he hit the wall? Why was he not a ghost when he was perpendicular to the racing line? These are all things that are possible.

Yes, some people are asking for perfection, which is not possible, but better than what we currently have is possible.

Everything absolutely right.

Sorry to say but it was better when the servers were split. For some reason the penalty system always gives the benefit to the laggy car.

I drive myself off but knew he was going to do everything to block or bump me off as you can see in the rest of the clip. The Brazilian of course gets a blue S. It's just not fun anymore to race with Brazilians.

Another example of how clean drivers are punished and dirty driving rewarded. The Brazilian has blocked extremely dirty and rammed. Nevertheless, not he was punished but the two clean drivers. This extreme block and zigzag I see more and more often. It has probably spoken around that such a thing is not punished. The game gives completely wrong incentives. Many players are convinced they can only succeed with 110% aggression and risk. I also see it after the race when I complain and are referred to as sissy, idiot or failure. They believe to do everything right and the success gives them somehow right. The Brazilian in the video probably thinks he did everything right. He finished the race in front of you two and unlike you did not have any punishment.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

A couple clips from my races this morning. Blocking is rampant in the daily C and the only way to deal with it is to go fully off road to have a 50% chance that a penalty triggers. There was also a parked car that wasn't ghosted, clipped it, SR Down for me lol. And the driver at the end is one awesome dude, always careful and very clean. He wanted to give me the position in the end since I got run off earlier by someone else, I slowed down as well, no need for that buddy, but he insisted Fun times.

 

[Redneckchef]

A couple clips from my races this morning. Blocking is rampant in the daily C and the only way to deal with it is to go fully off road to have a 50% chance that a penalty triggers. There was also a parked car that wasn't ghosted, clipped it, SR Down for me lol. And the driver at the end is one awesome dude, always careful and very clean. He wanted to give me the position in the end since I got run off earlier by someone else, I slowed down as well, no need for that buddy, but he insisted Fun times.

That looks like what I was getting last night. Struggled to maintain SR and speed as I kept getting run off by 2 muppets who have been in about 5 of the race C attempts I have made. They are both the proud owners of SR graphs that look like child's scribble and they complained that I was driving dirty. Got swerve blocked in the straights with no penalty, pushed wide onto the grass with no penalty and punted into walks at braking zones, for a 1 sec. Something is rotten when I get punted through a mid speed left right and they get no penalty but I get a track cut penalty.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

That looks like what I was getting last night. Struggled to maintain SR and speed as I kept getting run off by 2 muppets who have been in about 5 of the race C attempts I have made. They are both the proud owners of SR graphs that look like child's scribble and they complained that I was driving dirty. Got swerve blocked in the straights with no penalty, pushed wide onto the grass with no penalty and punted into walks at braking zones, for a 1 sec. Something is rotten when I get punted through a mid speed left right and they get no penalty but I get a track cut penalty.

That might be due to DR difference. A DR.D driver either gets ghosted when on a collision course or gets at most a 1 sec penalty. Usually they get nothing (if you have much higher DR) and that's when you get a short cut penalty for getting bumped outside track limits. It's even worse when you get bumped into the wall and end up with a 5 sec wall riding penalty.

It would be nice if the system gave the benefit of the doubt to the one with the best SR history, not the one with the lowest DR/SR.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well, PD has not done anything to the penalty system since the changed it to instant penalty for putting a car off track and it's been exploited ever since. Funny, I haven't go my head around abusing it so I actually try to not go off track rather than steering off and back on.

I sincerely hope that there is a significant penalty alteration before Christmas day, because we'll have new people online and it'll suck.

 

[Redneckchef]

That might be due to DR difference. A DR.D driver either gets ghosted when on a collision course or gets at most a 1 sec penalty. Usually they get nothing (if you have much higher DR) and that's when you get a short cut penalty for getting bumped outside track limits. It's even worse when you get bumped into the wall and end up with a 5 sec wall riding penalty.

It would be nice if the system gave the benefit of the doubt to the one with the best SR history, not the one with the lowest DR/SR.

Maybe, both were B drivers and one from the other night was A. Both B guys were below me so who knows. Still means the system is 🤬 when a fastish driver can deliberately crash someone else and get off free because they keep getting reset.

Edit as autocorrect plugged in gibberish word choice

 

[NevilleNobody]

Absolutely appalled last night at Interlagos. I totally messed up the replay so I will post it tomorrow but in one race i was given 2 seconds because the guy in front of me lost it and tagged my rear as he spun.

That put me in the path of an animal who had already nerfed someone at T1 and managed to get away without a penalty so he did the the exact same thing to me and ran me off the road ..... absolutely no penalty for him and I get half a second.

It's absolutely ridiculous, the game is a farce right now. Everyone working on this game needs to stop now and fix this, it's totally broken.

Here is the video. In a nutshell, one guy loses it and I get the penalty and another guy in a similar looking porsche intentionally rams the greenmlambo twice and myself once and never gets a penalty. It's absolutely insane.

 

[Groundfish]

Here is the video. In a nutshell, one guy loses it and I get the penalty and another guy in a similar looking porsche intentionally rams the greenmlambo twice and myself once and never gets a penalty. It's absolutely insane.

“Mama says 911 drivers is ornery cuz they got all them brakes but no power”
So, if you feel impact turn 1 you can use the runoff and cut t2, it seems there’s a time delay between the car impacting you and your car getting outside track limits which must have expired.
I’ve been pretty successful when a reckless ninny does that best case if you cut track they get pen, worst case you stay ahead and they get no pen. Seems to have a time delay in there.
They hit you, they went outside track limits first in less than the delay time, if that makes sense.
That’s what I was complaining about above, it can happen where the outta control guy clips you and flies off and you get pen.
When I think I might be subject to this it’s either brake check or brace for impact and try to go into a runoff area to give pen.
Doesn’t always work tho...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

A few penalties I got today, working wonderfully.

The classic, I didn't know there were other cars on the track

The spin out (no I did not bump him wide)

And avoid all the mess to get nailed from behind

I've also seen many cars get murdered without any penalties issued. Saturday evening pinball started early.

The track penalties are totally inconsistent as well. An inch, 0.5 sec, ignore the entire track, nothing. It seems mostly based on DR when a track cut penalty triggered although slowing down also helps. Helps not to get a penalty, but gets all the traffic behind in trouble...

Most accidents come from people behind trying to capitalize on a mistake from the car in front of me. I slow down to avoid and immediately have an eager nose next to me. The outcome usually is that the car that messed up in front gets away while I have to deal with half a car beside me through the next corner.

 

[Voodoovaj]

LOOK> LOOK AT HOW DIRTY I AM!!!

I got 3.5 seconds for being rear ended, which caused me to lose control and go off track a bit. Why am I getting a penalty for being rear ended IN A BRAKING ZONE FFS!!!!!!!

Yet again, I will repeat, this is THE WORST iteration of the penalties so far. I honestly believe they tweaked it and made it even worse. No penalty at all would be better than what we have at the moment. This video is frame by frame (don't mind the few moments at the beginning that seem dead)

 

[fastone371]

At this point in the game I think a 2 year would make better judgements as to who should be penalized. It really makes wonder if anyone at Polyphony or anyone associated with Polyphony has ever raced with this penalty system.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

At this point in the game I think a 2 year would make better judgements as to who should be penalized. It really makes wonder if anyone at Polyphony or anyone associated with Polyphony has ever raced with this penalty system.

As long as the two year old can flip a coin it would be an improvement already I just got punted by an American but the Argentinian that had a little harmless side contact with me before I got punted ended up with the 4 sec penalty. Cause and effect do not come into play.

 

[sundaydriving]

 

[Voodoovaj]

Go back to the old system. ALL contact gets a penalty. Bring back 10 second penalties.

Bring back penalties based on contact force

It WORKED!!!

Right now, the system does absolutely NOTHING to encourage safe driving and everything to encourage using your car as a weapon.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

There are two types of wrong penalties, the accident and the gamer.

The accident you can see coming from a mile away but can't do anything about. I'm full on the brakes, hoping he has the sense to stay on that side or jump over in front of me. But no, he doesn't start braking until he's already veering back on the road.

Far worse is the gamer, dive a nose in between the car ahead and the wall for the win.

5 sec penalty for me, he took the position and left straight away of course.

Is it any better in FIA races? The last one I was in had the wall penalties reduced to 1.5 sec and people were fully abusing the more lenient wall riding penalties

I'm convinced track cut penalties have been lessened again. I see so many people going wide and cutting the track every race, causing dangerous situations all over the place, yet that 0.5 sec penalty only triggers in a few places and only if the driver has high enough DR to be punished. It's still the same, 2 cars driving exactly the same line, same speed, one gets 0.5 sec, the other nothing.

If you want lots of victories in this game you have to have a laggy connection and frequently reset your DR 👎

 

[fastone371]

There are two types of wrong penalties, the accident and the gamer.

The accident you can see coming from a mile away but can't do anything about. I'm full on the brakes, hoping he has the sense to stay on that side or jump over in front of me. But no, he doesn't start braking until he's already veering back on the road.

Far worse is the gamer, dive a nose in between the car ahead and the wall for the win.

5 sec penalty for me, he took the position and left straight away of course.

Is it any better in FIA races? The last one I was in had the wall penalties reduced to 1.5 sec and people were fully abusing the more lenient wall riding penalties

I'm convinced track cut penalties have been lessened again. I see so many people going wide and cutting the track every race, causing dangerous situations all over the place, yet that 0.5 sec penalty only triggers in a few places and only if the driver has high enough DR to be punished. It's still the same, 2 cars driving exactly the same line, same speed, one gets 0.5 sec, the other nothing.

If you want lots of victories in this game you have to have a laggy connection and frequently reset your DR 👎

It's all because the 12 year olds game the system and whine the loudest when it's not to thier liking.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's all because the 12 year olds game the system and whine the loudest when it's not to thier liking.

It wasn't the 12 year olds, it was the superstar races that turned into penalty trains because contact free racing is too hard. Plus it was so easy to stall at the apex to deliver the car behind a 10 sec penalty. This made the FIA races look bad, can't have that.

But I guess there's a factor of how many people quit as well. You got to retain people, so DQ is no good, too harsh penalties makes people quit also no good. You need that balance between people quitting for getting caught and people quitting for getting punted to last. Economics of a game sustained by ps+ subscriptions...

That still doesn't excuse not fixing the SR system. Tweaking penalties without fixing the yoyo SR system is no use.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Are they really that bad now? I have to see for myself.

 

[Groundfish]

got 3.5 seconds for being rear ended, which caused me to lose control and go off track a bit. Why am I getting a penalty for being rear ended IN A BRAKING ZONE FFS!!!!!!!

I’ve gotten short end of the stick there many times also. Whack, dive off, boom pen to car ahead. It’s a time thing.
Imo hitting a car starts a timer, if only one car goes off and it happens before the timer expires the other car gets a pen. Severity I dunno.

o back to the old system. ALL contact gets a penalty

A THOUSAND TIMES THIS! Someone hits you they get pen. They need to tighten things up on Interlagos at minimum.